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justanothername
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Posted - 2007.06.17 04:47:00 -
[1]
Ok is this a violation of the EULA?
Ok since I cant buy a eve 30 day subscription card at my local Best Buy, I look to see what kind of deals are on ebay. (found one for $14 for a 30 day card). I ran across a seller that states that selling the game cards in game for isk is not a EULA violation. Is this true?
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Evachece
Furious Angels
Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2007.06.17 04:50:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Evachece on 17/06/2007 04:52:00
selling a gtc for isk is not an eula violation
theres a guide on how to do it on one of the forums as a sticky
edit: the guide is on the sell orders page
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.17 05:37:00 -
[3]
Not only is it not a violation to sell GTC in game for ISK CCP actually provides a secure mechanism via this web site to do so.
However, there is some talk that CCP looks to end this. Dunno really but for now it is all legal and fine to do so.
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Nash Leigth
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Posted - 2007.06.17 10:13:00 -
[4]
Selling GTCs for ISK is not a EULA violation. Purchasing ISK on websites that ISK farmers advertise in game is and will get you banned.
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Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2007.06.17 10:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 17/06/2007 10:31:47
 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Not only is it not a violation to sell GTC in game for ISK CCP actually provides a secure mechanism via this web site to do so.
However, there is some talk that CCP looks to end this. Dunno really but for now it is all legal and fine to do so.
Where is this talk? Please don't spread rumors without linking your source.
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Nash Leigth
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Posted - 2007.06.17 10:39:00 -
[6]
They are not going to make it illegal to sell GTCs for ISK. Too many people play the game without paying any real money for it. And too many people depend on GTCs as their ISK income in game. This would result in a huge outcry. What they are doing is making it more difficult for GTC re-sellers to function.
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Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2007.06.17 11:07:00 -
[7]
I don't believe for a moment they'll stop allowing players to sell GTCs for ISK, which is why I asked for proof. I know several people who would close multiple accounts if they could no longer buy GTCs with their isk, and CCP would be losing a valuable source of income from all the GTCs they sell.
One thing to remember is that CCP is still making money from each GTC sale. Giving that up would just be bad business.
Don't start rumors.
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Dortieus
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Posted - 2007.06.17 11:41:00 -
[8]
how do you actually buy GTCs from CCP?
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Nariza Tir'enna
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.17 11:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dortieus
how do you actually buy GTCs from CCP?
look to your left on the screen, find where it says Eve Store, pick catagories, and then game time cards, when the page is loaded.
Simple as that 
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Dortieus
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Posted - 2007.06.17 12:00:00 -
[10]
ah right  , also with subscriptions, I swear when i first came here there were different options, like $19.95 for 1 month, $49.95 for three months etc. But I cant seem to find those options anymore, just the one month $19.95 to extend trial (im on a trial obviously).
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Paged Out
Mutually Assured Destruction
Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.06.17 13:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
I don't believe for a moment they'll stop allowing players to sell GTCs for ISK, which is why I asked for proof.
Proof?
Quote:
I know several people who would close multiple accounts if they could no longer buy GTCs with their isk, and CCP would be losing a valuable source of income from all the GTCs they sell.
It seems you will still be able to purchase GTCs for ISK, just not sell them for ISK.
Quote:
Don't start rumors.
It's not a rumor.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.06.17 18:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Paged Out
Originally by: Daeva Vios
I don't believe for a moment they'll stop allowing players to sell GTCs for ISK, which is why I asked for proof.
Proof?
Quote:
I know several people who would close multiple accounts if they could no longer buy GTCs with their isk, and CCP would be losing a valuable source of income from all the GTCs they sell.
It seems you will still be able to purchase GTCs for ISK, just not sell them for ISK.
Quote:
Don't start rumors.
It's not a rumor.
Thanks for getting that. Was not looking forward to noodling out that thread.
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Nash Leigth
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:43:00 -
[13]
I'm assuming CCP will play the role of the middleman. Their issue with GTC re-sellers is that resellers can go, create their own websites or use places like EBay and sell GTCs there for real money. Then players don't buy GTCs for real money from CCP - part of profit is diverted to other people. "In the future, CCP will introduce a billing solution replacing the current system that allows the purchase of game time from third parties for in-game ISK" - read this as "we're getting rid of GTC resellers.
Suppose CCP allows you to buy GTCs from them for real money, then sell it back to CCP for ISK. Then they have a pool of codes available for sale for ISK to buyers who only pay with ISK. So basically CCP takes the role of the GTC re-sellers in this situation. They can also fix ISK prices on codes because they aren't interested in ISK profit. Or they can run it like free market where prices climb up as demand grows or supply shrinks.
Kieron's post is not clear at all. It is obvious that he's withholding some information and trying to say something without disclosing too much. Even he himself states that. And without this information the rest of us can only speculate on what the new system will be like. He states that "it will be possible for a time and ISK-rich, but financially challenged player to purchase game time directly from CCP" - I read that as "CCP will sell you your GTCs for ISK soon".
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Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Paged Out
Originally by: Daeva Vios
I don't believe for a moment they'll stop allowing players to sell GTCs for ISK, which is why I asked for proof.
Proof?
Quote:
I know several people who would close multiple accounts if they could no longer buy GTCs with their isk, and CCP would be losing a valuable source of income from all the GTCs they sell.
It seems you will still be able to purchase GTCs for ISK, just not sell them for ISK.
Quote:
Don't start rumors.
It's not a rumor.
That's a very poorly worded post by Keiron, and tbh it makes no sense whatsoever for CCP to sell GTCs for isk, since they would make nothing from it, as they could just create isk out of thin air if they wanted some... Plus remember CCP still gets paid cash for one player buying a GTC and selling it to another for isk.
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Nash Leigth
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Posted - 2007.06.17 21:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kappas.
That's a very poorly worded post by Keiron, and tbh it makes no sense whatsoever for CCP to sell GTCs for isk, since they would make nothing from it, as they could just create isk out of thin air if they wanted some... Plus remember CCP still gets paid cash for one player buying a GTC and selling it to another for isk.
It does make sense for them to sell GTCs in ISK because the GTCs they'll be buying for ISK were just bought from them in real life money. Then CCP receives real life money for GTC purchase, pays back to same player in ISK taking the GTC back from him, acts as a middleman and turns around and sells it to other players for ISK. That's how i see it happening.
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Deckard Bishop
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.06.17 22:24:00 -
[16]
the new system for time codes is still in development and details have not yet been finalised.
however at this point in time the aim is so you can select "extend subscription" and it takes the isk from your wallet.
no codes change hands. so you can buy eve time with isk but there is no way to get a code and sell it for isk... i have no idea how this would work with resellers (if there are any) 
but as i said its still on the drawingboard so any / all the details may change!
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zibelthurdos
Archron Dusyfe Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.18 08:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Deckard Bishop
the new system for time codes is still in development and details have not yet been finalised.
however at this point in time the aim is so you can select "extend subscription" and it takes the isk from your wallet.
no codes change hands. so you can buy eve time with isk but there is no way to get a code and sell it for isk... i have no idea how this would work with resellers (if there are any)
but as i said its still on the drawingboard so any / all the details may change!
all i can say is bad idea. any idea that reduces revenue can only end badly. even if only 10% of the playerbase used this option it would result in a huge financial loss to CCP.
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Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.18 09:40:00 -
[18]
I'm guessing it'll be in the form of an "item" in the "inventory" of the account holder, such that a person can buy them with RL cash and can transfer them to another player for isk. Nobody actually ever sees the code, just confirmation that their account as one credited.
All CCP needs to do is to become a GTC seller in the same way otehr websites are.
Originally by: Janu Hull
Nothing says gritty cynicism like a 1 ISK note wedged between a pair of silicone enhanced knockers.
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari
Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.18 14:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Deckard Bishop
the new system for time codes is still in development and details have not yet been finalised.
however at this point in time the aim is so you can select "extend subscription" and it takes the isk from your wallet.
no codes change hands. so you can buy eve time with isk but there is no way to get a code and sell it for isk... i have no idea how this would work with resellers (if there are any)
but as i said its still on the drawingboard so any / all the details may change!
Being an accountant, it seems rather obvious to me: CCP is still trying to give people who can't afford the game a break, but eliminating the Credit Card = Game Time Code = ISK loophole they created with the current system.
Now that people can pay with ISK, once it gets put into place, that particular loophole will be closed. The other thing they need to do is eliminate game-card sellars or put an audit-code on each card so it can be traced, which is possible, but could be so impractical as to be impossible (though it could be done).
Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Daeva Vios
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Posted - 2007.06.18 15:09:00 -
[20]
Thank you for providing proof that there is some form of dialogue going on about this, but until there's something set in stone, it is a rumor to say that they're ending it altogether.
Hate to nitpick, but without anything concrete, it is. 
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Ki Tarra
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Posted - 2007.06.18 17:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/06/2007 17:32:53
Originally by: Daeva Vios
Thank you for providing proof that there is some form of dialogue going on about this, but until there's something set in stone, it is a rumor to say that they're ending it altogether.
Hate to nitpick, but without anything concrete, it is.
It is just a rumor. GTC-ISK trade is CCP's most effective weapon against ISK sellers. I doubt they will stop it any time soon.
As I understand it their goal is 1) eliminate the need for actually having the GTC to do the trade, 2) eliminate the need for players to search for each other to make a trade.
I expect that the next step forward would be to create a market-like system where players can place buy/sell orders for game time and to allow players to purchase time directly from CCP, that can be traded on that system. I am just guessing, but it seems like the next step forward.
I do not expect that CCP will ever sell ISK strait out for cash as it would ruin the in game economy, nor will they ever sell game time for ISK because that would hurt their bottom line.
Originally by: Jeffrey R. Holland
No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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BluOrange
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.19 07:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deckard Bishop
the new system for time codes is still in development and details have not yet been finalised.
however at this point in time the aim is so you can select "extend subscription" and it takes the isk from your wallet.
no codes change hands. so you can buy eve time with isk but there is no way to get a code and sell it for isk... i have no idea how this would work with resellers (if there are any)
but as i said its still on the drawingboard so any / all the details may change!
So, CCP is planning to allow their most isk-grinding players to play for an indefinite period of time without any real money changing hands?
The last time this issue was 'clarified', the answer to my question was 'no'. For CCP's sake, I hope they're not stupid enough to accept ISK for game time.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.06.19 07:56:00 -
[23]
Quote:
So, CCP is planning to allow their most isk-grinding players to play for an indefinite period of time without any real money changing hands?
The current description doesn't exactly leave out another party selling the GTC, or perhaps thats wishfuly thinking :LOL:
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Cey Shirii
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Posted - 2007.06.19 08:35:00 -
[24]
In my opinion, selling GTC is a double-edged sword.
On one hand, it allows good EVE players to no longer pay with real money to play the game; they can instead pay with ISK. On the other hand, it allows people to buy GTC and sell it for ISK. In essence, paying real money for in-game money.
I still haven't decided whether or not I think it should be taken away...
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Digital Anarchist
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Posted - 2007.06.19 13:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Digital Anarchist on 19/06/2007 13:07:27
GTC <---> CCP <---> isk
GTC <---> CCP <---> USD
So you can buy a GTC and chose to pay either as isk or as real money.
CCP takes their isk and puts it in a pile.
It then takes the USD and puts it in another pile.
Based on the ratio of the two, it can establish an isk-price of USD.
Since all transactions go through CCP, they replace all the middlemen.
HOWEVER
Will CCP be able to accurately predict future prices on par with the speculators? Because if not, they are faced with a definitive loss of income. The better the prices reflect present AND FUTURE demand, the least "glut" there exists in the market (more of the potential isk is converted into money that goes to CCP).
Speculators put their own isk/$$$ on the line in order to estimate demand. For this service, they can extract a small profit. That is, they take risks.
Speculators that can consistently maintain a profit are those that better estimate potential demand and therefore, CLEAR THE MARKET (which is good for CCP).
CCP on the other hand, doesn't have this side of the profit motive and lack the combined wisdom of the speculators.
I hope CCP donesn't change the system as it is because I'd rather they used their income to improve the game.
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