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Xandria Foreman	Posted - 2007.06.19 09:35:00 - [1] To begin with I don't normally write about things but I was reading the thermal ideals for devices. To be rather blunt while you do have solar winds in space it is a frozen vastness. This being the case their should not be any real heat issues. However, the inside ship systems are a different story. Internal systems of a ship would suffer from certain heat conditions, hoever these same conditions would eat up the oxygen supply of a ship in reality. our game however does not take into account oxygen in a ship being used up. This being the case heat would also then not be an issue because the temperatures inside a ship are around -150F. or even lower. This being the case why should heat really be much of an issue on anything?
Trak Cranker Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 10:18:00 - [2] Edited by: Trak Cranker on 19/06/2007 10:19:17 Given that we accept your assumption as far as ship temperatures go; Whats to say that modules are not meant to work at those temperatures and still have problems displacing the heat that will be generated from overloading them? Heat is heat, whether it brings your modules from 10 to 1000 degrees Celcius or 0 to 5 Kelvin.
Abyssal Angel Caldari Solar Wind Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.19 11:53:00 - [3] There definetly are Solar Winds in space, some of them are quite strong and violent, others are fluffy-pink :) /me huffs and puffs at random people. Fixed Yay! have a cookie - Deckard Woot Deckard is living in my sig!
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.19 12:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Xandria Foreman To be rather blunt while you do have solar winds in space it is a frozen vastness. Not quite correct. Space doesn't really have a temperature because it's somewhat improbable you'll encounter any matter in space, temperature is only really defined when you're talking about matter (technically space is going to be 0, in practice though, you can't transfer thermal energy to it so it has no temperature compared to matter). Originally by: Xandria Foreman This being the case their should not be any real heat issues. This is incorrect however. In space the temperature from radiation from a stellar body can vary wildly between 350 degrees or more on one side to a couple kelvin on the other. The temperature of any object is going to be determined purel by it's black body radiation emissions from being heated, because there's no convection to carry heat away (that whole lack of matter problem). Originally by: Xandria Foreman However, the inside ship systems are a different story. Internal systems of a ship would suffer from certain heat conditions, hoever these same conditions would eat up the oxygen supply of a ship in reality. our game however does not take into account oxygen in a ship being used up. This being the case heat would also then not be an issue because the temperatures inside a ship are around -150F. or even lower. This being the case why should heat really be much of an issue on anything? This doesn't make much sense and I don't know what you're trying to say. But - the relative temperature of space is not the issue with heat - it's the fact there's no convection so heat is only lost by radiation. Hence, if you're generating significant heat onboard a ship (lasers, fusion reactors, plasma cannons) then you're going to have a lot of problems if you need to actually get rid of it to keep things at a particular temperature. You're only real option is to try and spread it out over your ship so it has a better chance of being radiated away.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.19 12:01:00 - [5] I thought there were cooling issues to space shuttles (IRL) when they are exposed to the sun not on the thermic shield side... And that when you no more have the sun heating it up, you have to turn on the heating for the people inside not to freeze. Is space so cold when exposed to the sun? (at 1 AU distance with the kind of sun our solar system has) -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Happy owner of a Vexor Navy Issue and few ishkurs. The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 13:28:00 - [6] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:29 Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:18 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Xandria Foreman To be rather blunt while you do have solar winds in space it is a frozen vastness. Not quite correct. Space doesn't really have a temperature because it's somewhat improbable you'll encounter any matter in space, temperature is only really defined when you're talking about matter (technically space is going to be 0, in practice though, you can't transfer thermal energy to it so it has no temperature compared to matter). Also not quite correct. There is a background radiation that causes the usual 3 K that you find space to be at. So space does have a temperature, very close to absolute zero. http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980301b.html ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.19 13:33:00 - [7] Originally by: MyOwnSling Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:29 Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:18 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Xandria Foreman To be rather blunt while you do have solar winds in space it is a frozen vastness. Not quite correct. Space doesn't really have a temperature because it's somewhat improbable you'll encounter any matter in space, temperature is only really defined when you're talking about matter (technically space is going to be 0, in practice though, you can't transfer thermal energy to it so it has no temperature compared to matter). Also not quite correct. There is a background radiation that causes the usual 3 K that you find space to be at. So space does have a temperature, very close to absolute zero. http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980301b.html That's radiation though - just means you're seeing a blackbody profile in space at any given point consistent with 3 kelvin. I did consider the background issue, but I mostly wanted to emphasize the point about lack of heat conduction to the environment.
MyOwnSling Gallente RONA Corporation FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 13:35:00 - [8] Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:35:34 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: MyOwnSling Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:29 Edited by: MyOwnSling on 19/06/2007 13:28:18 Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Xandria Foreman To be rather blunt while you do have solar winds in space it is a frozen vastness. Not quite correct. Space doesn't really have a temperature because it's somewhat improbable you'll encounter any matter in space, temperature is only really defined when you're talking about matter (technically space is going to be 0, in practice though, you can't transfer thermal energy to it so it has no temperature compared to matter). Also not quite correct. There is a background radiation that causes the usual 3 K that you find space to be at. So space does have a temperature, very close to absolute zero. http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980301b.html That's radiation though - just means you're seeing a blackbody profile in space at any given point consistent with 3 kelvin. I did consider the background issue, but I mostly wanted to emphasize the point about lack of heat conduction to the environment. Makes sense and I would agree with that. After axing convection and conduction that leaves you with only radiation. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Durindana Gallente Solar Wind Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.20 23:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Durindana on 20/06/2007 23:13:38 Originally by: Xandria Foreman Internal systems of a ship would suffer from certain heat conditions, hoever these same conditions would eat up the oxygen supply of a ship in reality. our game however does not take into account oxygen in a ship being used up. This being the case heat would also then not be an issue because the temperatures inside a ship are around -150F. or even lower. This being the case why should heat really be much of an issue on anything? I can't decide if you're suggesting that heat = combustion, and if so I'm snickering, or if you're making the somewhat more insightful point that heat in a spacecraft's interior is necessarily going to heat up the air breathed by the occupants, which will need to be dissipated in order to avoid killing the crew? p.s. SWC *****es! Either way, though, you seem to assume that heat generated by overloading a ship's modules necessarily ends up inside the ship. For turret weapons extending beyond the hull, at least, that's clearly not true; the same probably would go for various systems affecting external attributes, e.g. shield and hull modules. And yeah, in any case, a vacuum doesn't really have a "temperature," the word is defined as the average intensity of motion by particulate constituents of matter - which a vacuum isn't.
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.10.02 23:01:00 - [10] Its very difficult to dissipate heat in space. In fact satellites and other space craft need great care given to dissipating heat when being designed and built. Consider projectile weapons of a minmatar ship.(since this is a technology we understand well) Such weapons generate heat and in fact,some German machine guns during wwII actually had problems with the barrels overheating and softening due to the heat caused by their high rate of fire. In space,its not easier to dissipate,its harder. On earth,we use various liquid and forced air cooling techniques to remove heat. Your car for instance passes water through the engine and then draws cool air across a radiator to finally reject heat from the engine. In space,you cant do that since there is no air. Even if you use liquid cooling,you have to get rid of that heat outside the ship. If you look at the concepts that NASA has made for nuclear powered space craft,you will notice a common feature. They all have large heat radiators. To generate power from a reactor,you extract heat from a heat reservoir and reject it to a heat sink. In space,that means you have to radiate it away which requires large surfaces. There is just no way around that. Consider that even a frigate is producing tens of megawatts of heat. Its not so much an issue of heat not being,its more that we have ignored it previously,and now added it to some limited extend. If you look at a frig,it should be shining bright from all the energy that it has to dissipate to prevent the temperature from spiraling out of control. If it generates 20mw,it must radiate 20mw. Think of a 100w light bulb. Now think of 200,000 of them. Thats what the frigate has radiate away to keep its temperature constant.
Drake Water	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Durindana Either way, though, you seem to assume that heat generated by overloading a ship's modules necessarily ends up inside the ship. For turret weapons extending beyond the hull, at least, that's clearly not true; the same probably would go for various systems affecting external attributes, e.g. shield and hull modules. I'm afraid you're very wrong. Modules would heat up, perhaps outside the ship as you say. However, that heat has two options when it must go somewhere (and if the module keeps heating up, the heat must go somewhere). One is radiation, and that, as a number of people have been kind enough to explain, is a lousy way to get rid of heat. The second is conduction, i.e traveling through matter in contact with the said heat source. This means that things attached to the module (the ship) will heat up even if the module is on the outside, exposed to space.

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