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Ariadne	Posted - 2004.01.16 08:54:00 - [1] what should i use in the med ans low slots for pvp?I use large lasers in the highslots, and 1 or 2 dmg mods in the low slots normally thanks in advance "This means V+R."
Spanker	Posted - 2004.01.16 09:42:00 - [2] Here's what I'd have: HIGH 4xTach 2xH-50 (with torps/cruise, NOT defenders - hate them) 2xMedium Smartbomb MED 1xX-Large 3xHardeners (EM/TH/KI) LOW 6xCap Power Relay 1xExtruded This setup is plain and simple and I don't think there's much room for variation due to that ship's limited medslots. But please don't take my word for it, I regard myself as being a grade-A apoc nubstor
Agent Shield	Posted - 2004.01.16 19:38:00 - [3] Quote: Here's what I'd have: MED 1xX-Large 3xHardeners (EM/TH/KI) Or maybe the X-Large, EM/TH, and a shield amp instead of the kinetic; just another alternative. Agent Shield
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.16 19:40:00 - [4] You can't just say PvP. 1vs1 5vs5 30vs30 You'll want to use very different setups depending on what kind of fight your going for. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
hellwarrior	Posted - 2004.01.16 22:25:00 - [5] Lots of cap relays is right, I might drop kin hardener and use a shield booster amp or something.
Kamath	Posted - 2004.01.17 11:16:00 - [6] For 1 VS 1 I configure mine with this Hi 4x Tachyon 2x megabeam 2x h50 with torp cruise or defender Med 1x sensor booster 3x eccm Radar with this i have 23 in radar vs scorpion is really good Low 5x powerdiag 2x extruder heatsink
Ariadne	Posted - 2004.01.17 12:35:00 - [7] Thanks for all the feedback "This means V+R."
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.17 18:35:00 - [8] Edited by: dalman on 17/01/2004 18:36:56 Quote: For 1 VS 1 I configure mine with this Hi 4x Tachyon 2x megabeam 2x h50 with torp cruise or defender Med 1x sensor booster 3x eccm Radar with this i have 23 in radar vs scorpion is really good Low 5x powerdiag 2x extruder heatsink ROFL, with that setup ANY battleship will kick your ass in a 1vs1. That's a setup for long range fleet combat And medslot ECCM doesn't work as they are supposed to. (yes, pleasewrite petitions/bug reports/threads about that, so that they one day may fix them) M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2004.01.17 18:57:00 - [9] My setup is: High: 1x XR-3200 1x H-50 1x Mega Beam 3x Tachs 2x Medium lasers Mid: 1x 100mwd 1x sensor booster 1x large shield booster 1x Shield boost amplifier Low: 2x Nano cpu¦s 4x reactor control units 1x extruded It worked till yesterday, but it¦s not working anymore. I don¦t have a clue why not but i used it some days. Bugged. --------------------------------------------- Eve is not game, it¦s a way of life!
Ariadne	Posted - 2004.01.18 09:18:00 - [10] Ok, whats the best setup 1vs1?and 5vs5 then? thanks "This means V+R."
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.01.18 09:22:00 - [11] "And medslot ECCM doesn't work as they are supposed to. (yes, pleasewrite petitions/bug reports/threads about that, so that they one day may fix them)" Uhmm are you sure? The 'drop sensor strength on recycle' bug was supposedly fixed quite a while ago... o.O
T'el'Alana Luathin	Posted - 2004.01.19 14:52:00 - [12] hmm, interesting setups.. I'm guessing that everyone is starting their setup with the tachs, and molding everything around them as they see fit.. am I right? Are tachs really the only way to fit an Apoc? Has anyone done any serious research into the pros and cons of tachs Vs the other lasers, and tachs Vs. the other type, with the Apoc in mind? With all this nerfing of the lasers, I'm seeing 7 rails on a megathron, and the rail is better than the tachyon! while You can barely squeese 4 tachs on and hope to have spare cpu/powergrid for other modules. T.L. -- always look on the bright side of the cloning facility.
Foobie	Posted - 2004.01.19 15:26:00 - [13] Quote: hmm, interesting setups.. I'm guessing that everyone is starting their setup with the tachs, and molding everything around them as they see fit.. am I right? Are tachs really the only way to fit an Apoc? Has anyone done any serious research into the pros and cons of tachs Vs the other lasers, and tachs Vs. the other type, with the Apoc in mind? With all this nerfing of the lasers, I'm seeing 7 rails on a megathron, and the rail is better than the tachyon! while You can barely squeese 4 tachs on and hope to have spare cpu/powergrid for other modules. T.L. The stats how we see them are statisticly better on the 425mm Rail, but one Tachyon still does more damage than one Rail.
Isiana	Posted - 2004.01.19 17:26:00 - [14] I dont use lasers on my baby, to much cap drain for bad damage imo, to high fitting reqs easy to protect against (only 2 damage types) 1 thermal and 1 Em harderner absorbs much of the already lowerd damage ( when CCP decided to nerf lasers ) Found a much better fitting, Not gona share mine though Carebear\|Me Alts
Archemedes	Posted - 2004.01.20 06:50:00 - [15] One idea for an Apoc setup would be to use projectiles and missiles, not lasers. Then you can avoid using all your low slots on cap and grid boosters... For instance, what about something like: 2 launchers (H50 or seige) 4 1200mm artillery (or 1400mm if you can fit it) 2 800mm repeating artillery 1 named large shield booster 1 tracking booster 1 MWD 1 webifier 1 projectile damage booster 3 sensor boosters 1 armor repairer 2 armor plates That gives you both armor and shield tank capabilities and your weapons need no cap, so the Apoc's entire huge capacitor can be used for defense. Damage output might be a bit lower than some setups, but you're able to defend yourself well and do respectable damage. I've not tested this sort of setup, but I suspect a combined shield / armor tank Apoc could be VERY hard to kill... And if you aren't worried about jamming, replace the sensor boosters with armor resistance boosters and REALLY toughen up your ship...
Gryganne	Posted - 2004.01.20 13:10:00 - [16] How about this one: 4x Tachyons 2x Heavy Modulated Beams 2x H-50 1x XLarge Shield Booster 1x Shield Boost Amplifier 1x Cap Recharger 1x AB 5x Capacitor Power Relay 1x Extruded Heatsink 1x Armor Repairer What do you think?
Kronarty	Posted - 2004.01.20 13:42:00 - [17] Edited by: Kronarty on 20/01/2004 13:44:19 Quote: My setup is: High: 1x XR-3200 1x H-50 1x Mega Beam 3x Tachs 2x Medium lasers Mid: 1x 100mwd 1x sensor booster 1x large shield booster 1x Shield boost amplifier Low: 2x Nano cpu¦s 4x reactor control units 1x extruded It worked till yesterday, but it¦s not working anymore. I don¦t have a clue why not but i used it some days. Bugged. No cap recharging modules? I bet your cap recharge time is "soon(tm)". And how long can you sustain fire with that setup? 5 tachyon salvos? No wonder you use a MWD, you must do a lot of running in that setup... I sure hope you mistook reactor control units for capacitor power relays there...
Hellena	Posted - 2004.01.20 18:13:00 - [18] how about: 8x tachyons cl-5 med booster 100mn ab sheild charger named cap charger 7x reactor controls it all fits..trust me granted it eats cap,i just need to try it out again and see if i can finer tune anything..or get my hands on a reactor controlII or 3. that setup produces about 34.5k grid and takes 34.2k grid..yikes Not Just Another Pretty Face La Maison Hostess
Sir JoJo	Posted - 2004.01.21 16:58:00 - [19] Edited by: Sir JoJo on 21/01/2004 16:59:33 Well i would for sure not consider those setup whitout aleast a large boster! And 5v5 and 30v30! is what we doing mostly!
Cherok	Posted - 2004.01.21 20:23:00 - [20] Ok...was keeping my mouth shut but I just can't resist with all these bad setups (IMO). I don't know why people keep saying lasers do the most damage. They don't...simple as that. 425mm hybrid's do base 69x(forgot exactly what) damage a min. while Tacs do about 4xx(forgot exact number) damage. I have the averages at home. I've tested almost every setup and have high skills in all the named weapon areas accept projectile (working on it). I can get almost the same damage output from a Medium 250mm compressed hybrid as a Tach!! Only problem is the 250's don't have the range which is ESSENTIAL to killing NPC's these days. They also use tons of ammo and require 2 low slots for named damage mods. Problem with 425's is the high cpu requirement and of course it uses ammo. If you compare the damage per cap point used on the 425's, it is about 3.75 damage per single cap used. The tacs is about .49 per cap point! So you can't realistically load up on Tacs and have a sustained fire for a long time which is ESSENTIAL to killing NPC rats. And if you setup so you can support that much Tach fire, your giving up on much needed defence in your APOC. Any Laser lovers or jealous Hybrid users that don't believe me on the damage comparison, load up on all 425's and wait till an NPC gets in your optimal...you'll tear him to shreds. Do the same with tacs and you'll find that you can do more damage in the initial 20 seconds...but in a sustained fight, the 425's will do more damage, even on an apoc! So...Whats my setup? I've not had a chance to do extensive testing with Projectiles as I don't have the skills yet...so I've only worked with 425's and lasers on both a Megathron and APOC. I think Projectiles are the best for PVP from what I've heard and seen. Capacitor=life 6xMega beam lasers (same range as tachs, less damage, double capacitor saving per damage yeild) 2xDual Large 250mm hybrids. 1 Therm Ward 1 EM Ward 1 named sensor booster 1 named tracking booster 1 Extruded, 6xpower diags This gives me over 8k Cap with a recharge in the high 200's or low 300's. Not to mention the extra shields and shield recharge you get with the diags. You can run this indefinately. Make SURE you warp away if you get more than 2 NPC ships under 15k from your ship. I am able to hit with Radio crystals at 110km and change the crystals as the NPCs get nearer. Since Radio does all EM damage, I try to only strip the shields off of all the ships with those before I switch over to Infarred and Multifrequencies to strip the armor. Once the rats get under 40km from me, I'm running all Multifrequency crystals and fire up my 2 large 250's and its all over for them. I've been able to clear full spawns with 1 Dominix in them with this setup over and over. I have not been able to take out a Megathron yet because it seems all the other ships like to MWD with him after me. Keep in mind most my engineering skills are 4 or 5. For PVP in an APOC, all I can say is that this is a support ship. This is NOT a 1vs1 pvp ship unless you know exactly what your up against...which we usually don't. The High cap is wonderful but the mid slots really cripple the PVP in this ship. As a support vessile, I'd suggest mounting as many 1400 or 1200 arties as you can and load up on Wards. Low slots would be 3xwarp core stabs and the rest power diags/cap rechargers/damage mods. Apoc is a popular target in PVP so you need all the defence you can get. Get the hell out once your shields start to fail. Keep in mind that Lasers are so easy to block with Wards that they are effectively useless in a PVP fight where ships are tanked. They help, but they just suck which puts the apoc in a supporting role. for the figures I've presented you in this, it is based off of all the base statistics of the weapons. With higher skills, the weapons do more damage and use less cap. But the percentages still stay the same. Cherok
Lucre	Posted - 2004.01.22 13:16:00 - [21] Quote: I don't know why people keep saying lasers do the most damage. They don't...simple as that. 425mm hybrid's do base 69x(forgot exactly what) damage a min. while Tacs do about 4xx(forgot exact number) damage. I don't have the numbers to hand either but that doesn't match my recollection. In pure Damage over Time, ISTR that Tachs do much more damage than anything else; 425 rails do a little bit more than Megabeams; whilst the big projectiles are pretty lousy at something like half these values. But pure DoT is not the whole story. Tachs devour cap so leaving less for defence (which is one area where projectiles make up for their poor DoT, the others being bigger hits and better falloff) and this firepower is hard to sustain. They also devour cpu and grid, so you either can't fit as many or need to waste low slots on boosting these instead of your cap or defences. So whilst it is (IIRC) correct to say they do most damage over time per slot, you're right that there's more to it than that. I haven't yet had the skills/opportunity to try it yet, but I think I agree that there may be a lot to be said for mixing weapon types on an Apoc. Unlike some other BS you don't get big dmg/rof mods for one weapon type and your cap bonus works whatever you're using. So unless you've a config with lots of damage mods, there's only a limited downside (eg the skills overhead!) to fitting a mix of lasers, hybrids and/or projectiles. And you can consider it purely on an energy/damage DoT basis for the overall mix. Yes, it will reduce your theoretical damage over time compared to a pure Tach or even Tach/Mega setup. However your sustainable damage over time and your offence/defence balance could both improve substantially. Also gives you a wider variety of damage types and operating ranges making you harder to double-guess tactically. I suspect lasers should still be the weapons of choice for any Apoc pilot planning a short/sudden fight. But for longer ones - or especially npc hunting where sustained defence is vital - I do wonder if mixing types would be better? Anyone else tried this - successfully or unsuccessfully? :-)
Cherok	Posted - 2004.01.22 18:06:00 - [22] I've been reading these forums and listening to people discuss about loadouts, but my testing results doesn't support the Laser theory. Tell me if your damage is different than my experiments below. With my Apoc I load up Tachs with Radio and start hitting thoraxes at 105km. I'll do between 90-130 EM damage at this range. I will hit almost every shot. at 96km-62km I do about 120-175 EM damage with my Radio's. At 61km I change my crystals to Infarred and average between 135-200 damage. (forgot what type). At 41km I switch all over to MultiF. and average 190-300dmg a shot. I fire my Tach's every 9.6 seconds (with skills) and they use about 94 cap each shot (with skills). With 425's on my Apoc, I only fire within the optimal since I miss too much in the falloff range. I hit almost every shot and average 175-200 dmg a shot. (with ammo that does like -12% or -25% range) However, the gun fires about every 5-6 seconds. With 4 - 425mm's, to me thats LOT more damage than the Tach's and uses less cap and powergrid on top of that. Only problem is the range isn't as great...but with different ammo, that could change. So with the results above, the 425's has much more staying power than the tachs. You can sustain as many 425's firing on the apoc as your powergrid can hold. I don't like to do this though because your needlessly using up ammo and cutting into your profits. Before I got a Battleship, I always thought that a pure hybrid/laser/Proj. is better because you can specialize your damage mods. However, when testing my apoc nothing irritated me more than loading up 5 tachs and not being able to sustain a constant fire on the enemy and still having 3 wasted turret slots that could be dishing out damage on the enemy. So with my setup, I can let them all fire and my cap will sit from 40-60% with my shields keep up with the damage pretty easily with the resistances. I found that 4 Mega Beams will dish about about the same damage that I get from 3 Tachs all things being equal. So with 6 MBL's it does almost as much damage as 5 Tach's and uses the same cap as 3 Tachs. Add 2 Dual 250's in there and that is some serious damage and very flexable setup. One more point to make is that people say Tachs can't hit anything sub 10k. I've cleared spawns (post Castor) and let the Dominix MWD all the way up to my Apoc and bounce off it it...the distance says like -25meters. My Tachs will continue to tear him a new a-hole from this distance...they will miss a little more than when they are in optimal, but most of the shots hit. They are far from worthless at this range. My Dual 250's will also continue to hit him at this range as well making the setup above very nice for me. I can dish out lots of damage from range and when they get sub 41k and I unload all my firepower on one ship, they go down really quick. I have also tested 3x425's, 5xD250's on my Apoc and it will dish out MUCH more damage than you could ever hope for with lasers. Just more costly to do it and you can't do as much damage at long range. I may be wrong in my approach here and if I am, I want to know where I'm going wrong. But this is whats worked for me. Cherok PS - Sorry for the long posts!
Phonix	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:19:00 - [23] Just wondering but what do you guys think of this on a apoc? This is for 3 vs 3 BS High 2xH-50 arbs 2x tachys 2x1400mm 2x med SB Med 1xXL sheild booster 2xHardners therm/EM 1xShield amp Low 6xcap relays 1xExtruded Give me some info first Apoc!!! -------------- Notferr has been pwned by CCP..
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.26 09:34:00 - [24] O.o Alot setups __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Seray	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:17:00 - [25] hmm, ok first i have to say my setup is for npc hunting, but maybe it works fine for pvp, never tried it... High-Slot: 2 Mega Beams 6 Dual Heavy Beams Med-Slot: 1 quad lif mwd 1 medium c5l 2 linear tracking mods Low-Slot: 2 extruded 1 powerdiag (would remove it when i get engineering lvl5) 4 cap power relays with this setup i can deal 500 dmg to shields at 50-60km each 4,5sec. When rats coming closer i switch to UV crystals, around 35km iirc, and sometimes if it went bad i switch to MultiFrequency and deal with em huge ammounts of dmg to everything which is around 22km. What do you think of this? p.s. i can run the guns + shieldbooster for some mins...
MoLeH	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:44:00 - [26] woot, my setup is allways changeing, but tbh i allways run lasers, because i can, i never run out of cap while running 6 mega beams or 4 tachs, lately i have been experimenting with 6 tachs which is v fun, but means i can loose cap :( but wtf thought his 250mm rails did the same as tachs ?? ive never seen a 250mm rail with a average dmg of 350 dmg... and ive never seen a 250mm rail wreck for 950dmg... usual setup : hi: 4 x tach 2 x heavy beam 2 x H-50 (named) med: 1 x large clarity ward 1 x anointed EM ward 1 x digithermal ward 1 x sheild booster amp low 6 x power relay 1 x extruded heat sink -------------------------------------- Do you see people in real life whining that their enjoyment was ruined by a shark when they went swimming in dangerous waters? - Viceroy
Northrend	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:20:00 - [27] Quote: woot, my setup is allways changeing, but tbh i allways run lasers, because i can, i never run out of cap while running 6 mega beams or 4 tachs, lately i have been experimenting with 6 tachs which is v fun, but means i can loose cap :( but wtf thought his 250mm rails did the same as tachs ?? ive never seen a 250mm rail with a average dmg of 350 dmg... and ive never seen a 250mm rail wreck for 950dmg... usual setup : hi: 4 x tach 2 x heavy beam 2 x H-50 (named) med: 1 x large clarity ward 1 x anointed EM ward 1 x digithermal ward 1 x sheild booster amp low 6 x power relay 1 x extruded heat sink That shield booster amp will do you no good if you don't have a shield booster fitted friend. You are wasting a slot without one. Just my 2 cents... Have a good one
Ithilgore	Posted - 2004.01.26 14:23:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: woot, my setup is allways changeing, but tbh i allways run lasers, because i can, i never run out of cap while running 6 mega beams or 4 tachs, lately i have been experimenting with 6 tachs which is v fun, but means i can loose cap :( but wtf thought his 250mm rails did the same as tachs ?? ive never seen a 250mm rail with a average dmg of 350 dmg... and ive never seen a 250mm rail wreck for 950dmg... usual setup : hi: 4 x tach 2 x heavy beam 2 x H-50 (named) med: 1 x large clarity ward 1 x anointed EM ward 1 x digithermal ward 1 x sheild booster amp low 6 x power relay 1 x extruded heat sink That shield booster amp will do you no good if you don't have a shield booster fitted friend. You are wasting a slot without one. Just my 2 cents... Have a good one Large Clarity ward is a shieldbooster i think.
MoLeH	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:22:00 - [29] OMFG nublet, a large clarity ward is a named large sheild booster, plz do not look down at me for i am your GOD... -------------------------------------- Do you see people in real life whining that their enjoyment was ruined by a shark when they went swimming in dangerous waters? - Viceroy
vyperpit	Posted - 2004.01.26 16:47:00 - [30] lol there are so many set-ups it all goes down to how you like to fight. apoc has so many roles and load outs its untrue. If you wanna ship to back up and ew/lock down partner. This is my fun one pure back up ship. 8 x named energy neutralisers 3 x med cap charger bigger the better, either 1 x 7500 warp jammer, or XL sheild booster. 7 x cap recharges. (-25% sheild recharge +20% cap charge) This load out will give you a back up ship that can kill a cap on any ship it faces in 20-30 secs. it also has a 7000 cap (with skills) and a 70 sec recharge rate. you have another fav of mine close range hitter. 8 x hvy modulated pulse lasers. 1 x large sheild booster 1x emp,ken,thm harders.(cange these as needed or fit anything else you want) 5 x cap chargers 2 x extruded heats. This load out you hit for 90-150 every 2 secs per laser with radio. or 90-200 ish with multis. range on these are about 20-30km not great but it is close range you basically machine gun fire your opponent. you have range load outs. 4 x 1400 2 x h-50 2 x 720 carbide 1 x mwd 1 x large shield booster 1 x f-90 booster 4th slot your choice its ranged attack 6 x cap chargers 1 x damage mod Use mwd to head away or keep at range. use projects to do damage. and your cap and shield recharge takes care of its self. There is so so so many its fun to figure out. Just work on what role you want to take on and try and fit your self for that. these are some load outs i have used and know work. ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
Northrend	Posted - 2004.01.26 18:37:00 - [31] Edited by: Northrend on 26/01/2004 19:01:42 My apologies gentlemen. I don't have any experience with bship lvl ships nor their modules. My sincerest apologies again m8s

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