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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 03:43:00 -
[1]
After looking through LP store offers for various factions I've come away with the feeling that either I'm missing something major, or when mission runners are faced with having to choose a faction to ally with we'll *all* dogpile on Caldari + Amarr.
The Minmatar LP offers are... pathetic. No armor tanking gear, shield tanking modules on par with un-named tech1. Good afterburners and gyros, that's about it. And projectile weapons & ammo. Not very marketable, except to other Minmatar users.
Gallente have the Megathron, good armor hardeners, magstabs. That's about it. EANMs are not as good as the Ammatar/Amarr versions. Plus your choice of low quality in very high sec or low quality in lower sec combat agent.
Now, the other side of the fence:
Caldari: CNR, omgwtfpwnz launchers, faction missiles, faction BCUs. Good shield hardeners.
Amarr: EANM, armor hardeners. Racial weapons & heatsinks.
What am I missing here? It's pretty obvious if you're going to run missions for LP and sell the proceeds you don't want to take the underdog side here. Which means we'll all going to be migrating to Motsu. Um. Doesn't seem like a wonderful idea.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.21 04:07:00 -
[2]
What about Republic Fleet Warp Disruptors?
BUYING ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZGL1000 IMPLANTS, PAYING WELL, CONVO/MAIL IN-GAME |
NIkis
Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.21 04:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: NIkis on 21/06/2007 04:12:35
And overdrives .. really I don't see reasons to panic well except mostly minmatard ships will use them
Each faction gets its own stuff, sounds very reasonable to me.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 04:23:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Toria Nynys on 21/06/2007 04:31:00 The reason to panic: carebears are the ones who will fork over the big bucks for modules that help them make more big bucks. PvPers are pretty stingy (except for their Snake sets *wink*), and mostly get their shiny stuff off the corpses of carebears.
Both of the named modules you mentioned are for... PvP use. Now then. Will the warp disruptor and overdrives bring in enough tens or hundreds of millions to cover the cost of farming/buying tags? Possibly, but not likely.
The market is far larger for the Caldari+Amarr block, plus the remaining minmatar faction grinders will be only too happy to trade the one or two borderline useful but easily done without modules for vastly superior and necessary weaponry and armor not available to them.
In fact, the two mentioned modules are very low end -- roll an alt with good social skills, train for a few hours, run a few missions for them with your main, and you're ready to get all the tackling and speed gear you could ever want. This is not the case for high end LP cashing out. Imagine how many disruptors and overdrive offers I'd have to cash in to match one CNR sale, or even one launcher sale!
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Raivi
Explosion Matrix
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Posted - 2007.06.21 05:18:00 -
[5]
Matari Combat corps give 30k warp disruptors.
30k Warp Disruptors.
That's Domination disruptor equivalents that are now available in much larger volumes than before. There are plenty of pvpers who will pay a tidy sum for those disruptors, even if they can't afford to pimp the rest of their ship much. That extra 6km over T2 is big for many ships.
Yes, Caldari stuff will have the highest demand (mostly because all the mission running ships will want to have the BCUs and launchers at the very least) but it will also have the highest supply as most mission runners already focus on Caldari. There should be plenty of profit to be made in Matari LP stores, and I see the cheaper 30k disruptors changing the balance of pvp quite noticeably in some ways.
Explosion Matrix: Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.21 06:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Raivi Matari Combat corps give 30k warp disruptors.
30k Warp Disruptors.
That's Domination disruptor equivalents that are now available in much larger volumes than before. There are plenty of pvpers who will pay a tidy sum for those disruptors, even if they can't afford to pimp the rest of their ship much. That extra 6km over T2 is big for many ships.
Yes, Caldari stuff will have the highest demand (mostly because all the mission running ships will want to have the BCUs and launchers at the very least) but it will also have the highest supply as most mission runners already focus on Caldari. There should be plenty of profit to be made in Matari LP stores, and I see the cheaper 30k disruptors changing the balance of pvp quite noticeably in some ways.
If 30km disruptors become prolific, think of what it could do for smallers ships vs BS! I use 30km scrams on my Ishtar all the time for killing mission runners (the scumbags lol) because they fit eighty billion heavy nos all the time.
Works great until you run into some llama with faction heavy nos lol.
BUYING ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZGL1000 IMPLANTS, PAYING WELL, CONVO/MAIL IN-GAME |
Vasiliyan
The Flying Swan
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Posted - 2007.06.21 08:14:00 -
[7]
/buys 30km scrams for Arazu
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.06.21 08:19:00 -
[8]
Aren't there also Republic Fleet Webs? Those should go for a premium too...
I do agree though that Caldari now has an even greater allure to run missions for. It is kinda offset by the most annoying NPC EW though, while minmatar runners are faced with the oh so dangerous target painters...
Thank you SkyFlyer!
There is no 'n' in tur |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.21 10:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: NIkis Edited by: NIkis on 21/06/2007 04:12:35
And overdrives .. really I don't see reasons to panic well except mostly minmatard ships will use them
Each faction gets its own stuff, sounds very reasonable to me.
Minmatard, that made my chuckle.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:45:00 -
[10]
Think about this for a moment. The faction scrams are a 30,000 LP offer. That's a cashout of 4-5 missions tops. They will be selling for over 120M not because of the LP, but because of the obscene number of tags needed to cash in the offer.
Thusly a mission runner doing 2 missions a day will have about 3 of them to sell a week. 'Professional' mission farmers will have lots, lots more.
Think about who you know. How many of your buddies are willing to fork over 100M for a scram for their pvp ships? How many of the ships fitted with such gear to they lose per week? Unless I'm very very wrong there are more farmers and carebears than pewpewers, and even a very casual carebear can supply the need of a dozen pewpewers if not more re: these modules. The only possible outcome is a mass migration into already crowded Caldari space.
The market for that modules, the MWD and the overdrive is *very* limited and easily supplied by newbies working their way up to L3-L4s before they realize they're on the wrong side of the factional conflict.
BTW, there are Caldari combat agents in Amarr space. Sucks to have to armor tank your Raven, but it is a solution to the dreaded Guristas problem.
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Vitrael
Stormriders Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.06.21 15:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Toria Nynys Think about this for a moment. The faction scrams are a 30,000 LP offer. That's a cashout of 4-5 missions tops. They will be selling for over 120M not because of the LP, but because of the obscene number of tags needed to cash in the offer.
Thusly a mission runner doing 2 missions a day will have about 3 of them to sell a week. 'Professional' mission farmers will have lots, lots more.
Think about who you know. How many of your buddies are willing to fork over 100M for a scram for their pvp ships?
You are completely neglecting supply & demand here.
I can guarantee you nobody will be paying 100m for a 30k ruptor in 3 months.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2007.06.21 15:45:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 21/06/2007 15:48:39
Originally by: Toria Nynys
The Minmatar LP offers are... pathetic. No armor tanking gear, shield tanking modules on par with un-named tech1.
Really the hardeners are not that bad, low cap use make them good for AFs.
Quote:
Good afterburners and gyros, that's about it. And projectile weapons & ammo. Not very marketable, except to other Minmatar users.
What would really make the LP shop attractive would be a Republic Fleet Stasis Webifier modeled after the Domination one, carebears and PvPers alike drool aver those.
And frankly PvP stuff should have a bigger market than carebearing stuff, there are no reasons to lose many ships missioning...
Also, faction XL Ammo will be hot for POS sieging dreads and POS guns alike, Minmatar tower are still the standard for deathstars. Way to spend your lps without having to collect tags. Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
Axhind
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.06.21 15:53:00 -
[13]
My spacelane LP shop offers gallente crap as well (like I want it as it just clutters the shop ) but except for implants and some ok modules there is nothing there that is too good. Launchers look like the win until you see the CPU use. Try fitting a caldari ship (well) without CPU use problems. FFS the only reason anyone buys faction hardeners is their low CPU use. Other than that you get t2 for an insane price.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 17:08:00 -
[14]
Re: nobody paying 100M for a 30k disruptor was my point. Since it takes time or money to farm up tags the only place you have to work with on price is accepting little to no ISK for your LP. In which case, why bother? Just sell the tags.
The low fitting reqs seem like a win until you realize the tags make those hardeners weigh in at something like 30-50 million a pop valuing the LP at 0 ISK/LP. How many of those are you going to put on your 6M AF? How many of those 120M-ish AFs are you going to get blown up a day? Heck, slap on the 30km disruptor and faction MWD on and see if you can hit half a billion ISK of fittings on a 6M frig and get a few of them blown up a day.
Faction battleships & gear make sense from a spend money to make money standpoint. Very few collectors or obscenely rich people will buy the PvP or frigate oriented faction gear with enough volume to support more than a handful of Minmatar faction mission runners.
Big stuff is missing. Need valuable ship, armor & weapons offers to make the LP store work. Not just low LP + high ISK niche items. The tags are a closed loop carebear ecosystem -- missioners are selling those to missioners. PvPers can only bring ISK into the mix.
Let's watch the population in Caldari space over the next few months to see if I pegged it. I've just added 3 to the Torrinos neighborhood myself.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:13:00 -
[15]
No, please don't come to us ! We don't need Minmatars or Gallentes with their phat Dominix that cause a lot of lag in our systems. Caldari Space is for Caldaris only, aliens please stay out.
And i don't like your posting. Who will take x to pvp blah blah ... why don't you see it the other way aswell ? Who will take a CNR to pvp - or those launchers that you praise so much ? If you train up specialisation skill they are hardly better than tech 2 launchers, like 2.5% faster - and can't use t2 ammo, do you seriously think people will pay hundreds of millions for a set of those for pvp use ? Don't compare the price they were worth before, as they were rare drops - prices will change absolutely and so the profit. Stop whining, wait and watch how the things will develop. If there are 2340234 people doing caldari missions and get caldari rewards, the supply will be too high compared to the demand - price will go down, whereas the items for minmatars might get more value, as not many do minmatar missions, so the items will be rare, compared to the caldari stuff. I'm sick of all that ranting on us caldaris, the grass looks always greener on the other side
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Elrinarie
Gallente Freelancers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:22:00 -
[16]
lol.. I love how caldari peeps try and defend their better reward offerings.
sorry bud, it's open space for all :) Creator of another Mining Calculator |
Taoism
IP II IMI IP my pod
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Posted - 2007.06.21 18:53:00 -
[17]
until this gets fixed:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=539962&page=1
the question of who gets better loot is a moot point.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.21 19:28:00 -
[18]
Supply and demand only works when there's demand. When there's low to no demand (see: republic tempest, the hull HP bonus modules, micro smartbombs) supply limitations don't really enter into it.
And yes, the launchers are pure crap. Tell you want, trade you t2 sieges for the faction ones since they're so much better. They're the same stats as Dread Gurista launchers people were forking over 150M for when t2 was available for 6M. And the missiles -- who'd want an extra 15% DPS anyway?
I hope you convince others, because I'm grinding my faction w/ Caldari already. I'll try not to let Minmatar and Gallente go below -2 (it's at 8.something now), so I'll always have the option to return if the LP store is fixed. Looking at how Amarr was 'boosted' I'm not banking on it.
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