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Big Fuzz
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Posted - 2007.06.22 10:14:00 -
[1]
I just ran Angel Extrav 4 - what an annoyance. Pretty much everything that is wrong with missions became evident.
1. Rather than the previous setup where rooms have groups, now AE4 has one group at a time & waves. So my alt with a lightly tanked mega kept drawing aggro from the waves, causing me to warp him out a couple times. Annoying. If CCP is trying to get people to run missions in gangs this is a truly dumb way of doing it -- waves that aggro support make gang missions more trouble than its worth. The only effective gangs in this system are 2+ ships that could run the mission solo anyway, since they all need to be able to tank & deal the dps. No reason to ever bother with logistics or heavy damage dealers in a mission gang -- they're just a vulnerability.
2. Drones are stupid. The waves also aggro drones. No problem - just call them in & get the aggro on my ship right? Well, no. 3 times during the mission I had ******** drone syndrome where they wouldn't MWD back to me. 40km out & 275m/s back = several dead drones. (Not to mention that there seems to be a bug with drone range - I have a 60km range with my setup, but several times could not attack rats over 43km away & got a message stating that 43km was max range -- other times I was able to hit 60km out.)
3. After wading through that mission & fighting the stupid problems I turned it in to find that the standings bug isn't fixed. Yeah, I know there's a 9 page thread on it -- I read the thread earlier today & last I checked a GM & dev responded saying it was fixed. (Do I really need to check back to threads to see if GM's & Devs were just 100% wrong?)
So while I wait for my alt to train for a cookie cutter raven to not use drones & be able to tank everything independently, I won't be running any missions. Maybe in the couple months that will take CCP will sort some of this garbage out -- if not I imagine a lot of people who are only interested in missions will be gone.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.22 10:29:00 -
[2]
There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
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Getschi
Mining and Trading Corp Old Merchant's Club
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Posted - 2007.06.22 10:45:00 -
[3]
In my view the Lev.4 Missions are too easy!
And its not new that Spawns attack random!
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Big Fuzz
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Posted - 2007.06.22 10:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
Sure there is - two sets of guns kill quicker than one.
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Ghan Tylous
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.22 11:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Getschi In my view the Lev.4 Missions are too easy!
And its not new that Spawns attack random!
So lvl 4's are too easy and should be harder? been said that lvl 4's should be closer to lvl 3's. But I heard that lvl 5's are hard if you want a challenge or try one of these new encounter sites with your new onboard scanner in 0.0.
Lots of BS's, support, towers. But no one says that you are not allowed to run lvl 5 missions now. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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Michael Caldar
DangerZone Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.22 11:06:00 -
[6]
Sure there is - double cargo capacity and twice as fast salvaging... Alloyed Tritanium Bars... Yum... Another canditdate to run for a week or so
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Smakko
Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.22 11:11:00 -
[7]
i can tank lvl 4s in my drake, but if i was flying a drone ship, i could see that someone would have massive problems. Groups of npcs were leaving me alone at 60km away, but as soon as i released my drones, the other npcs would start spamming missiles at them, as far as 120km away. Light missiles pwning my drones at 120km? OK, cmon, that's just silly. My solution was to thin down the stage enough that i could aggro everything so that i could finally launch my drones and help me kill things to supplement my pathetic dps.
Pre Rev 2 i don't think I'd have much to whine about, since in CCP's eyes lvl 4s shouldn't be soloable anyways... but now that they've created lvl 5s... just seems like CCP didn't test missions at all.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.22 11:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Big Fuzz
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
Sure there is - two sets of guns kill quicker than one.
And in return for that you have to fit your ships in such a way that they can handle the AI scripts, sounds like a fair trade-off.
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Tanya Raskov
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Posted - 2007.06.22 12:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
What good is your comment ? Are you 10 year old ?
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.22 13:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tanya Raskov
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
What good is your comment ? Are you 10 year old ?
Pardon? Why should any ship inside a mission not be a target for the NPCs to shoot at? NPC AI is far too limited as it is. Having an invulnerable repairstation sitting next to your ship is just plain silly, missions are easy enough without it. Throwing in some risk to support ships is completely acceptable, certainly now their resists have been boosted to HAC lvls.
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Hanse Davion
Gallente Jane's Clone Emporium
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Posted - 2007.06.22 13:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
Originally by: Tanya Raskov
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
What good is your comment ? Are you 10 year old ?
Pardon? Why should any ship inside a mission not be a target for the NPCs to shoot at? NPC AI is far too limited as it is. Having an invulnerable repairstation sitting next to your ship is just plain silly, missions are easy enough without it. Throwing in some risk to support ships is completely acceptable, certainly now their resists have been boosted to HAC lvls.
What didn't you just say that from the start? That is the one thing I can't stand about these forums, people insult first and advise second. (yes this is the pot calling the kettle black) For all you know he may not have your tanking/dps skills and needs a alt.
With that said, I do agree with your current comment. They changed missions so that you could share the rewards, therefore everyone should share the damage. Otherwise you get into a powerleveling type situation and we don't need that problem on top of everything else we have to contend with.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
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Kreul Intentions
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.06.22 14:14:00 -
[12]
Posts have been removed that quoted a deleted post. Please remain repsectful even when in a disagreement.
Thank you.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.22 14:19:00 -
[13]
I didn't have a problem with what she said. /shrug
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Elspeth Vigneron
Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.22 14:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Elspeth Vigneron on 22/06/2007 15:01:51
Originally by: Big Fuzz I just ran Angel Extrav 4 - what an annoyance. Pretty much everything that is wrong with missions became evident.
1. Rather than the previous setup where rooms have groups, now AE4 has one group at a time & waves. So my alt with a lightly tanked mega kept drawing aggro from the waves, causing me to warp him out a couple times. Annoying. If CCP is trying to get people to run missions in gangs this is a truly dumb way of doing it -- waves that aggro support make gang missions more trouble than its worth. The only effective gangs in this system are 2+ ships that could run the mission solo anyway, since they all need to be able to tank & deal the dps. No reason to ever bother with logistics or heavy damage dealers in a mission gang -- they're just a vulnerability.
I like the feature. Spreads the damage around. And yes, I run missions with two accounts.
Quote: 2. Drones are stupid. The waves also aggro drones. No problem - just call them in & get the aggro on my ship right? Well, no. 3 times during the mission I had ******** drone syndrome where they wouldn't MWD back to me. 40km out & 275m/s back = several dead drones. (Not to mention that there seems to be a bug with drone range - I have a 60km range with my setup, but several times could not attack rats over 43km away & got a message stating that 43km was max range -- other times I was able to hit 60km out.)
My other character is Gallente. I appreciate this. Makes me pay attention instead of using my WFTSOLOPWNMOBILE Dominix as an ATM.
Quote: 3. After wading through that mission & fighting the stupid problems I turned it in to find that the standings bug isn't fixed. Yeah, I know there's a 9 page thread on it -- I read the thread earlier today & last I checked a GM & dev responded saying it was fixed. (Do I really need to check back to threads to see if GM's & Devs were just 100% wrong?)
That sucks, but you still get the money. You still get the LPs. It's nice to be able to split the LPs and rewards. Right now I'm just running Level IV's in tandam, enjoying the isk and not worrying too much about it. It'll get fixed, worse comes to worse, they can slap the old code back in and work it up from there.
Phoenix Logistics Industries
01010000010100100100010101010000010000010101001 00100010100100000010101000100111100100000010001 000100100101000101001011000010000 |
Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.22 15:14:00 -
[15]
3 alts, one originally designed to fly minmatar t2 ships, one gallente BS spec. And me.
All 3 are training hard to fly triple ravens well.
All I gotta say is adapt or die. When missions are impossible for anything BUT a Raven maybe they'll be fixed a bit.
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Galk on 22/06/2007 17:11:06 Just done the 'new improved' angel ex, so ill give a quick first run guide through it, as it's not been listed yet on the guide site.
Start by saying i used my old combo, cnr.. track/gank mega.... if or not that still is the quickest way of completing the mission, im not so sure even after only the first run...
Start with the spawns.... they might come in waves now... but the positions they spawn at are exactly the same as they were before, those at the silo ect, initial/first agro spawns of old being the static ones you see on arrival.
1st area... near instant agro as before from the mass spawn around the station...
1st trigger.. killing the commander. 2nd trigger.. killing the war general...
2nd area... instant agro from the guys at the gate.. killing the battleship in that spawn, spawns the 2nd wave, the spawn on the right containing the war general... kill him and the middle spawn at the rock formation jumps in (cruisers frigs).
3rd stage is unchanged.
4th stage.
Initial agro from the spawn from the silo (instant) Killing the 2nd of the war generals in the spawn triggers the spawn at the radar... kill the war general from that spawn triggers the spawn on the far right.... killing the 3rd battleship from that spawn triggers the ones at the middle rock.
5th stage.
Same agro as before from the 2 bs.. not sure but the 2nd bs i killed (the general) droped the next wave at the monument.... killing the saint from that spawned the ones at the station on the left... finaly killing the 3rd battleship from that spawn bought taigo out to play....
Now that mouthfull is out of the way
Like i said from the start, at the moment there's no way in the world my old setup's are the business anymore..... mainly because of the range of the spawns on this deadspace mission, and that of the fact you actualy have to kill 1-3 battleships with the tanked up cnr to bring the other spawns out.... and the obvious loss of time involved in that... something id managed to negate on nearly all the other waved missions.. with ranged attacks, good timings, and a stacked up shield bank (with a repping logistics back at the station)
It's time to look again me thinks, duel ravens wouldn't be my preferd option.. i like the guns... im just far too used to insta poping all the frigs before they move.. with the waves on the angel ex.. there were only 3 of the spawns i managed to get that in
Hope it helps anyway, it's 95% accurate if iv'e read these hopeless scribbles on this little postit note corectly ______
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insidion
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly There is no reason to use an alt in this mission, it's not that hard.
Doesn't detract from the complaint of how it affects a team in general. Rather than a backup alt, many use a salvage/loot alt. Don't know how many times I've brought in a noob corp/alliance member in a lootbus once I've taken the aggro so they can get a taste of 'the bigtime' too.
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Crove
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:00:00 -
[18]
Does anyone else think it's odd that rather than make some friends and run missions together, players just buy more accounts so they don't have to be social?
That thread hijack aside, I did this mission about 9 hours ago. Didn't have many probs with drone aggro, I run 3 heavies and 2 lights or 5 lights on my hyperion, just called em back between waves. It's not like you don't know when the next wave is coming, just kill the trigger last.
I was able to solo this mission for a grand total of close to 30M in 2 hours or so, which isn't super, but hey, I'm solo and in a hyperion. :P So, I don't really see what the complaints are about. If CCP made it harder to dual box that's fine with me; learn to stand on your own two feet. If you have a friend playing with you whose ship can't tank on its own, just have him align during trigger kill and warp out, then come back for next wave. It's not like the gates are far apart.
The only thing that annoyed me was the 0.00008% standing increase I got for this mission. It's not fixed, CCP.
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Big Fuzz
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Posted - 2007.06.22 19:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crove Does anyone else think it's odd that rather than make some friends and run missions together, players just buy more accounts so they don't have to be social?
Well I run missions & plexes with corp mates almost daily - they probably agree that I'm an introverted sociopath as well.
But since I ran a mission yesterday with my alt it must be safe to assume that I never have a chat channel open and am never on TS & have never interacted with people. Good point indeed.
Originally by: Crove ...I was able to solo this mission for a grand total of close to 30M in 2 hours or so, which isn't super, but hey, I'm solo and in a hyperion. :P So, I don't really see what the complaints are about. If CCP made it harder to dual box that's fine with me; learn to stand on your own two feet. If you have a friend playing with you whose ship can't tank on its own, just have him align during trigger kill and warp out, then come back for next wave. It's not like the gates are far apart.
Cograts I guess. I can solo it easily as well. But you really haven't said anything that has value here. The point is that if CCP wants gangs to run missions (this seems to be the case), there should be a way to have a dynamic gang to do it that isn't just several ships that could solo that same mission. There should be a place for tank support, heavy damage dealers, anti-frig, loot/salvage etc. in a gang. If waves need to exist, why not make waves occur in non-deadspace missions where warping out & back doesn't involve going through 4 gates (even if they aren't far away -- which some are -- its lame).
Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron
My other character is Gallente. I appreciate this. Makes me pay attention instead of using my WFTSOLOPWNMOBILE Dominix as an ATM.
I must have missed the part where I said I'd like to run missions in a domi afk. Because I thought I said:
Originally by: Big Fuzz The waves also aggro drones. No problem - just call them in & get the aggro on my ship right? Well, no. 3 times during the mission I had ******** drone syndrome where they wouldn't MWD back to me. 40km out & 275m/s back = several dead drones.
Unless you think that vespas returning to my ship from 40+km out at 275m/s is a 'feature' I think my point is made.
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Ihmurria
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.06.22 19:17:00 -
[20]
I'm not even into level 4's and it seems like some of the L3's are much harder than before... Pirates Invasion for me though someone I know said Blockade was much harder than normal for them. Yes a friend and I ended up ganging to finish it but it was just nuts how hard the last room was plus they threw in at least one warp scrambler. Bleh.
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kermitfrog
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Posted - 2007.06.22 20:23:00 -
[21]
i run missions all the time lvl 3 and lvl 4 everyone keeps going on about how hard they are and that ccp should do this and do that, now about 6 months ago i had trouble doing a lvl 4 with a normal raven, but now i can do every lvl 4 solo im not saying that everyone is easy.
However i can solo them a lot of the time i do them with a corp mate we use drones yes they get attacked yes some get popped.
My point to this is if ccp made every mission easy for every player then mission running would be pointless because you would get to a point where you would get bored personally i like it the way it is and yes they can change things as much as they like its called a game have some fun. If you lose a ship get another. Like i said this is a GAME enjoy have fun.
When i first got podded i nearly cried but now its actually quite exciting.
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Big Fuzz
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Posted - 2007.06.22 21:26:00 -
[22]
I never once asked for missions to be easier. If I want to do them afk I can do lvl 3's. Difficulty is totally separate from what I'm talking about. I'm saying that missions are more trouble than they are worth presently -- not too hard. (More like easy & annoying.)
Fixing standing is obvious and is a start, fixing drones (I don't care if they catch aggro from waves, I just want them to not have ADD & come back with their MWD's on) would be better, and managing aggro in some way the makes a mission reward a dynamic (read: 'not 2+ ravens') gang would be best.
I'm going to try a couple lvl 5's as soon as possible to see if they are better -- but I don't expect much.
I want to like missions again - but god knows there are quicker & less annoying ways to get the isk.
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Epoch
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Posted - 2007.06.23 00:31:00 -
[23]
first time ive heard a complaint about waves...
AE is much easier now. you can leave the trigger. go restock on boosters, ammo and drones if needed and come back without having to worry about a cluster**** blob aggroing you. it greatly reduces the need to warp out.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.06.23 06:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Big Fuzz The point is that if CCP wants gangs to run missions (this seems to be the case), there should be a way to have a dynamic gang to do it that isn't just several ships that could solo that same mission. There should be a place for tank support, heavy damage dealers, anti-frig, loot/salvage etc. in a gang. If waves need to exist, why not make waves occur in non-deadspace missions where warping out & back doesn't involve going through 4 gates (even if they aren't far away -- which some are -- its lame).
It makes no sense whatsoever for some ships to be untouchable by the enemy. If the NPCs acted like real players they would always kill the logistic ships first, it's common sense. This game has no way to 'taunt' npcs to make them shift target, and it shouldn't. So, put a proper tank on your logistic (they did get a nice resistance boost), put a remote repairer on your damage dealer, and adapt.
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Slayton Ford
Vindicate and Deliverance ASGARDIAN EMPIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.23 06:39:00 -
[25]
Any suggestions on the bonus room though? --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
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