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Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 22:29:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, I have been playing for about a week now. I have already trained up all my Astronomic skills. But that's not enough, i am still in need of a good Gallente exploration ship and fittings that will not take too long training the skills. Can someone recommend me a good beginner exploration ship with the necessary fittings so i don't have to worry about the rats in the Radar/Mag sites too much, i don't think the Imicus is strong enough to ward off the rats i will encounter. I will mostly be exploring ~0.5 security sites since i was told that the lower sec you to, the higher the profit. Can anyone give an estimate average profit difference between high, low and null sec please? Thank you
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 400	Posted - 2012.01.05 22:42:00 - [2] - Quote Vexor with 2 codebreakers and afterburner in mids. Tank in lows, probe launcher and salvager in highs. Gravity capacitor rigs and sisters launcher would be a nice addition as well.
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 169	Posted - 2012.01.05 22:43:00 - [3] - Quote As far as high sec radar/mags, most shouldn't give you problems once you get some better skills. An imicus with it's almight 3 drones (iirc) can handle most anomolies/radars/mags and fit mods to get the cans. You will need some good drone skills though, and most regular frigs can't handle the higher level combat sites that require scanning down (DED). You can however get a good feel for exploring with just an imicus. Many explorers, particularly those of us using only 1 account, fly T3 cruisers because they have amazing flexibility with their fits and can still put out enough damage to complete anything in high sec. A good gallente ship before that to use is the myrmidon. You won't be able to enter the lower ded sites due to ship size, but those don't hold anything very valuable anyway. Also, profits will be random randomly at random intervals. The rng (random number generator) will govern what you find when. You will hit dry spells, that's working as intended. Keep at it though, exploration can pay out very well if you keep learning. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 400	Posted - 2012.01.05 22:56:00 - [4] - Quote Kilrayn wrote: Also, profits will be random randomly at random intervals. The rng (random number generator) will govern what you find when. You will hit dry spells, that's working as intended. Keep at it though, exploration can pay out very well if you keep learning. To add to this, dry spells after a patch are 99% of the time a coincidence. Don't come raging to the forums because we will just laugh at you. Instead, come to the forums and laugh at the idiots who think 4 is a relevant sample size.
Substantia Nigra NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire 302	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:13:00 - [5] - Quote When I started exploration, and before I knew what alts were, I ran a one-toon two-ship convoy. I'd hop into the next system with my scanner-ship (probe for me, but every race has a probe-scanning-bonused t1 frigate) and scan away to my little heart's content (very slowly and not able to resolve everything I found). If I found anything I wanted to explore I'd dock, unship, and go back to the last station-containing system I was in and pickup my DPS ship ... initially a thrasher, then a rupture, then a hurricane. I'd clear the site in that ship, open the cans as necessary, and then swap back to the scanner ship and repeat. This approach did involve more to-and-fro jumps but it also saved me from trying to devise all sorts of gimpy all-in-one ship fits. Once my cargoholds became full I either ran the stuff back to my 'home' or dropped it in a station and did a hauler circuit afterwards. The main problems I encountered were: 1. Some prat in a cheetah clearing the cans just b4 I get there; 2. Inadequate scanning skills to resolve all I found to a bookmarkable fix; 3. Inadequate hacking / cracking skills to open all the cans I found. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 104	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:13:00 - [6] - Quote If you want to do mostly radars, Imicus with 3 hob2's kick butt. I still tool around in mine sometimes. It will easly handle HS radar rats. Ive even done some combat sites with it. I know I used to do the Rogue drone asteroid infestation 3/10 site in one. Just kite everything while the drones kill. Next step up would be a vexor, although honestly I was never happy with mine for exploration.
Mnemosyne Gloob Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc. 29	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:20:00 - [7] - Quote I was basically just writing what Derath said ... If you are feeling ballsy and want to learn something that you can use later (the mechanics of lowsec ... watching out for probes and so on) take your Vexor and go do the Radars (and now even Mags) in lowsec. I myself got the idea from here: http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/ Plex prices are a bit different now and i am sceptical if you can still do what he did there, but the concepts are the same. Happy exploring.
Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:25:00 - [8] - Quote Thank you for the answers/tips, they were helpful, i will be using a Vexor then so i don't have to switch between my exploration and combat ship. Instead of 2 codebreakers, shouldn't i use 1 codebreaker and 1 analyzer? Also, to make sure i can open most cans i will level Hacking to 3. Hopefully that will help. Is that the only thing i have to worry about about? Or is there also such thing as inadequate Analyzing/Salvaging skills? How does this look? High: -Salvager -Tractor -Probe Launcher -Cloaking? Is this recommended? -Turret or another salvager? Med: -Analyzer -Codebreaker -Afterburner Low: -Armor Reinforcement -Armor Reinforcement -Armor Repair -More armor? Or did i miss something? Drones: -Heavy/Sentry drone x3 or Med I x7 (sadly Hob2 still 10d+ training) Fyi, my area is full with 0.3 security systems, doable with a Vexor I hope. So i will try to find mag and radar sites in low sec mostly.
Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 401	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:53:00 - [9] - Quote Drop the analyzer. Mags in high sec are literally terrible.
Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:56:00 - [10] - Quote I'm Analyzing in low sec, not high sec.

Emperor Salazar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 401	Posted - 2012.01.05 23:57:00 - [11] - Quote I still think they're not worth doing but to each his own.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 105	Posted - 2012.01.06 00:52:00 - [12] - Quote You've been playing a week? Stay in high sec. Seriously. If you are going primarily for Radar/Mag, just stay in HS. You will die in LS. IMHO LS radars aren't noticably better than HS ones, and they are infinitely more annoying. Both because of the LS dangers, and because the rat spawns.
Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.06 08:41:00 - [13] - Quote Vexor is not enough to handle lowsec? In that case i guess i will stick to high sec. I wouldn't need Cloaking then i guess. Another small question, would you use a tractor for exploration?
Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.06 11:03:00 - [14] - Quote What to do with combat sites you find in high-sec? Skip or is it worth clearing them? I am currently exploring in my Imicus with 2 Warrior I. I doubt i can clear them with 2 drones alone.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 109	Posted - 2012.01.06 13:21:00 - [15] - Quote Souls Rei wrote: Vexor is not enough to handle lowsec? In that case i guess i will stick to high sec. I wouldn't need Cloaking then i guess. Another small question, would you use a tractor for exploration? If you are playing just since 2 weeks ago, you might first learn: 1) How to explore 2) How to get in and then also get out (alive) out of low sec. The latter is enough of a task for a new character to do, don't hurry doing everything together , I suppose if you lose a fitted Vexor with your character age you might be quite set financially back. Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose and in low sec it's very easy to lose it until you get the knack of the low sec mechanics.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 105	Posted - 2012.01.06 13:28:00 - [16] - Quote Souls Rei wrote: Vexor is not enough to handle lowsec? In that case i guess i will stick to high sec. I wouldn't need Cloaking then i guess. Another small question, would you use a tractor for exploration? No a vexor is a fine lowsec exploration ship. What I am saying is you are not ready. If you still want to try by all means go for it. But I predict you will find yourself at best, frustrated, at worst killed and/or podded. A couple random thoughts. Speed is your friend in lowsec. That is speed in scanning and speed in running the sites you want to run. With your skills, as a new player your scanning skills are low (I know because to get them to a decent level takes weeks alone). Moving from an Imicus, a ship with scanning bonuses, to a vexor, a ship with no bonuses will make your scanning slower. You may even find you cannot get a lock on low sec radars right now in a vexor, even with grav rigs (I have had this issue when newer) Speed in the site is key as well. The longer you are running a site the longer you are at risk of getting jumped. So it is critical to be able to fly a full flight of T2 drones, and have a solid tank. Radars and mags are especially dangerous, as they are un-gated. This means someone looking to kill you can warp directly to the site unhindered. Often pirates will have systems pre-scanned so they don't even need to probe down the site before warping on top of you. Radar sites are especially notorious for despawning if you warp off. So a pirate comes in, you warp off an cloak, site goes poof. You just wasted all of that time. OR, you stay and try to clear it, pirate warps in, you go poof. High sec radar sites are often completely unguarded, or have minimal rats. Their cans are generally pretty close together. Scan it down, quickly hack the cans, often pocket 5-20mil in loot, repeat. Low sec radars often have cans much further apart (one site, i cannot remember the name at the moment, has 4-5 cans, mostly all 30+KM from each other). Also many have rats that spawn as you hack each can, which is annoying and add to the time on site. I have not found the loot significantly different in these low sec radars. Even though I can now, I ignore LS radars and mags. When I was in your situation, new to the game I just stuck with my Imicus, with 3 hob drones and just focused on radars. On a good night I could easily make 100mil+ which for a 3 week old toon was amazing. Get really good at your scanning this way and work on your ship skills in the meantime.
Roime Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 108	Posted - 2012.01.06 13:30:00 - [17] - Quote Hi and welcome o7 Vexor is plenty enough to handle lowsec exploration complexes up to DED 4/10 -rated sites, it is the best PvE cruiser by a fair margin, and currently tops the PvP hierarchy as well... but it is a cruiser, meaning that you will need a few months of training to fit it properly. You can fly one much sooner, but there are some skills that just need to be taken to level V, Hull Upgrades and Drones at least, and a handful of must-have level IV too. Check out the Certificates recommended for it for a rough guide on the core skills . Imicus benefits of strong drone skills, it's the only T1 frigate that can field 3 light drones. 3x T2 Hobgoblins with appropriate damage and support skills will instapop all hisec radar sites. Two Warrior Is might take a long time. I used to clean those sites by just launching drones and burning to the cans. Hobgoblins kill everything without pilot intervention :) With good skills it's also possible to fit Imicus for combat, and do anomalies and maybe also 3/10 sites, but probably not in the beginning, and you will have to drop the Core Probe Launcher. So for the hisec combat sites I'd switch to a Tristan. It tanks better than Incursus, so it's easier in the beginning. Yes, I use a Small Tractor Beam on exploration fits, makes grabbing the money wrecks much faster. I'd consider training for the basic core skills first, then T2 tank, then the long-ass drone skills (Drone Interfacing V is considered a must for drone pilots) and then focus on turrets later, if you choose to go the Gallente PvE way. It worked well for me later when I moved to PvP, too.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 105	Posted - 2012.01.06 13:33:00 - [18] - Quote BTW, for ship fittings. This was my HS Imicus setup [Imicus, Explorer] Core Probe Launcher I Salvager I Codebreaker I 1MN Afterburner I Damage Control II Small Armor Repairer II Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I [Empty Rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I would keep an analyzer in the hold and swap at a station if i needed it. Downgrade to named where you cannot use T2. Low sec vexor. I mostly hunted radars with this. [Vexor, Exploration] Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Core Probe Launcher I Small 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Prototype Cloaking Device I Cap Recharger II 10MN Afterburner II Codebreaker I Medium Armor Repairer II Emergency Damage Control I Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I [Empty Rig slot] Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Souls Rei Imperial Guardians 0	Posted - 2012.01.06 14:17:00 - [19] - Quote Very helpful. I noticed that clearing sites in HS with 2 Warrior I is pretty much impossible, the damage is just way too low. It actually takes 10d+ training time to be able to use Hobgolin II's. Is the difference between I and II that big? I mean, if i look at the stats, the only big difference i see is 0.32x dmg modifier and 1k velocity. And why would you use Hob II's on an Imicus, if you took 10d to train up the drone skills, wouldn't you had the ~2d to train up a Vexor? Is using turrets also an option on the Vexor, for example : Salvager I, Launcher I, 3 x turret. I know i am hurrying, but that is because i want to be able to do something in Eve as soon as possible. As of now i'm docked in my station and have nothing else to do than waiting for my skills to get finished. I just explored more than an hour with my fitted Imicus. I looked through 6 systems, scanned down 4 sites, it took me an average of 10minutes to scan each of them down to 100% from 16AU, which is OK for a beginner i guess. Found 1 mag sites (1 empty can and 1 can with 600 isk worth of items), 2 wormholes (too scared of not being able to go back), 1 Chemical Yard (2 Warriors I = a bit useless, so nothing). This is harder and more frustrating than i thought.
Roime Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 108	Posted - 2012.01.06 14:35:00 - [20] - Quote T2 Drones are faster, hurt more and can take more damage. The dps difference is almost so that T2 medium drones do as much damage as T1 Heavy drones. T2 Drones help nearly every ship later in the game. also the Vexor. But the main point of using Imicus is it's scanning bonus, making it a much better scanner than Vexor. Yes, I personally think Vexor should always fit guns, it has bonuses to both drones and medium hybrid turrets. These together give it a massive damage potential outclassing many battlecruisers. You can start scanning with your probes set to 4.0 AU - all sigs in Empire spawn inside 4 AU.

Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 107	Posted - 2012.01.06 14:38:00 - [21] - Quote Souls Rei wrote: Very helpful. I noticed that clearing sites in HS with 2 Warrior I is pretty much impossible, the damage is just way too low. It actually takes 10d+ training time to be able to use Hobgolin II's. Is the difference between I and II that big? I mean, if i look at the stats, the only big difference i see is 0.32x dmg modifier and 1k velocity. And why would you use Hob II's on an Imicus, if you took 10d to train up the drone skills, wouldn't you had the ~2d to train up a Vexor? Because a Vexor with 2 warrior 1's will suck worse, and be just a more expensive death? Before you even consider flying a Vexor you need to be able to at least field a full flight of drones (drones 5). As a drone specialist you will also want your Combat drone operation skill trained up (5% damage bonus per level) I use Hob 2's on an Imicus because I can. An Imicus is still my best high sec radar hunting ship. It's fast, scans fast, and gets radar sites done fast. Souls Rei wrote: Is using turrets also an option on the Vexor, for example : Salvager I, Launcher I, 3 x turret. I know i am hurrying, but that is because i want to be able to do something in Eve as soon as possible. As of now i'm docked in my station and have nothing else to do than waiting for my skills to get finished. You can, but at its heart the Vexor is a drone boat. And you need to figure out how to enjoy doing what you can, when you can. EVE, as in most MMO's there is always something you can't do yet. I've been playing 9 months and still dont have an Incursion worthy ship I can fly. There are lots of things you can do in your first few weeks. If you are already docked up in frustration, you are going to be in trouble in this sandbox called EVE. Souls Rei wrote: I just explored more than an hour with my fitted Imicus. I looked through 6 systems, scanned down 4 sites, it took me an average of 10minutes to scan each of them down to 100% from 16AU, which is OK for a beginner i guess. Found 1 mag sites (1 empty can and 1 can with 600 isk worth of items), 2 wormholes (too scared of not being able to go back), 1 Chemical Yard (2 Warriors I = a bit useless, so nothing). This is harder and more frustrating than i thought. Scanning may or may not be your thing. And it gets better with skills. I enjoy exploration, but I find scanning sites somewhat theraputic. It is very hit or miss. I can spend an entire evening not finding anything useful, or hit sites in my first X systems and made millions in 30min. And it takes practice. I havent timed it, but I can generally scan down a complete system in way under 10 minutes, depending on the number of sigs. Feel free to hit me up in game if you want to chat about it more.
Sam Redshift PCG Enterprises 10	Posted - 2012.01.06 14:43:00 - [22] - Quote Mnemosyne Gloob wrote: I myself got the idea from here: http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/ Plex prices are a bit different now and i am sceptical if you can still do what he did there, but the concepts are the same. Do not be disappointed about lack of skills limiting your options for exploration in the first couple of weeks. I really enjoyed reading the blog Mnemosyne mentioned, that explains early options. There is no need to sit in the station till the skills are better. You can do a lot with an Imicus .. just stick Hobs I in it and train to Hobs II as soon as possible and go for highsec radars. I still use my Imicus for quick scanning trips rather than a covops because it is so versatile. An Ishtar is my next goal. If you want to try some plexes, keep a dps cruiser or BC' close by. Alternatively, ask a corp mate for some dps support for shared rewards. Lots of options. If you wanna speed up scanning and you stay in highsec (you should for starters) invest your money from the first couple of Radars in sisters probe launcher, sister probes and grav rigs. It helps a lot. Whatever you do, just enjoy the excitment of exploration .. new unknown sigs with imaginable rewards are waiting for "only" you just around the corner ... no, not this corner .. the next one :)
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 107	Posted - 2012.01.06 14:49:00 - [23] - Quote Sam Redshift wrote: [quote=Mnemosyne Gloob]An Ishtar is my next goal. Ishtar is pimp. Just sayin'
5nipe Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.01.06 15:11:00 - [24] - Quote Mnemosyne Gloob wrote: I myself got the idea from here: http://explorationalmanac.blogspot.com/ Plex prices are a bit different now and i am sceptical if you can still do what he did there, but the concepts are the same. Happy exploring. Since blog was written and it is about 1.5 years now few things are different now, not only price of Plex. First of all, skills training process became way much faster because no more need to waist time on learning skills. It means that you will spend a bit more time on making ISKs actually. Another change makes big difference for new low skilled prober char. Now all probes contribute to scanning result, not only 4 with best result as it used to be. To make it even CCP reduced signatures strength. Therefore, I noticed that deviations of scan results is lower with 7 probes than with 4. It means that with more probes in space you will have more precise position of signature and less cycles of reposition probes. It may not be a big deal for skilled char, but for rookie prober it means reduced time for nailing down signature of interest. Yet another great thing CCP implemented is gravity center for probs moving with "Alt" pressed. As a result of all changes mentioned above, scanning process became faster and getting scanning char is ridiculously easy. Finally we have 3/10 for Guristas and it not only drops A-Type small shield booster but other "Dread Guristas" stuff like launchers or rail guns quiet often, compare to 4/10 when you can eventually get Gila BP (1% drop rate). All this are positive thing and they can easily contribute the difference of only 100Mil between Plex prices differences now and then. The bad news is than exploration is not mini profession any more. It became like a EVE hobby for everybody and his mom. The thing is that difference between "I want to be explorer too" and few real pros is very little in terms of scanning abilities now. So you have to compete against armada of hi sec explorers, typically in Tengu. And it is a huge difference to what it used to be 2 years ago. (and pretty much the same trend in low sec). But exploration in hi sec still extremely profitable if you can find ways to run it effectively. I run radars in hi sec only when I cross them hunting 3/10 or 4/10. But I still make ISK out of them on regular basis. On a final note, my little report of my last 5 days Guristas hi sec plex hunting (approx 2 hours of active scanning every day): 4/10 - 8 : 3 Medium Shiled Boosters, 2 Kin, 2 Expl and 2 Mag Amplifiers. 3/10 - 10 : 1 Small Shield Booster, 1 Worm BP. It is about 1.5 Bil or roughly 120-150 mil per hour across a board. Does it mean you can get the same with Imicus from radars? Now way, but I still confident you can make enough for PLEX in 2 weeks. P.S. By the way, I made about 3 times more ISK in low sec in last 6 days.
5nipe Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.01.06 15:17:00 - [25] - Quote Oh, just forgot to mention. If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget all this Vexor, Ishtars, Arbitrators etc... Train for Gila, and straight to Tengu afterwards. Tengu still the king of the Hill exploration.
Sam Redshift PCG Enterprises 10	Posted - 2012.01.06 15:31:00 - [26] - Quote 5nipe wrote: Oh, just forgot to mention. If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc... Train for Gila ... snip .... What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu)
5nipe Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.01.06 15:53:00 - [27] - Quote Sam Redshift wrote: 5nipe wrote: Oh, just forgot to mention. If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc... Train for Gila ... snip .... What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu) Why Tengu? Because it has everything you need for all-in-one exploration vessel. Great tank, decent DPS, long range weapons (missiles), 3 rig slots, Bonuses for scans, great speed with AB and finally it can be fitted for with cov ops cloak for low sec (if you go there eventually for expedition last step). All subsystems have great bonuses and only 1xX training speed. Why not Ishtar. No bonuses for scan, only 2 rigs, no cov ops cloak, drones as prime DPS. low speed even with MWD compare to any t3. The same as Gila( Gila still have 3 rig slots) but require Cruiser lvl5.
Kilrayn Caldari Provisions 169	Posted - 2012.01.06 16:04:00 - [28] - Quote 5nipe wrote: Sam Redshift wrote: 5nipe wrote: Oh, just forgot to mention. If you are serious about exploration as mini profession in long run - forget ....snip... Ishtars .... snip..., Arbitrators etc... Train for Gila ... snip .... What ???? Apologies to OP .. but I need to ask 5nipe here without starting a new thread: "Do you suggest to drop the Ishtar idea?", 5nipe???. Do you mind to explain why? My entire career planning for 2012 in question here (Imicus-Vexor-Ishtar-Gila-Tengu) Why Tengu? Because it has everything you need for all-in-one exploration vessel. Great tank, decent DPS, long range weapons (missiles), 3 rig slots, Bonuses for scans, great speed with AB and finally it can be fitted for with cov ops cloak for low sec (if you go there eventually for expedition last step). All subsystems have great bonuses and only 1xX training speed. Why not Ishtar. No bonuses for scan, only 2 rigs, no cov ops cloak, drones as prime DPS. low speed even with MWD compare to any t3. The same as Gila( Gila still have 3 rig slots) but require Cruiser lvl5. Having flown all those and also a proteus, the tengu is just in another class. 700 dps at max range with about that much tank. Most frigs get 1 shot and cruisers usually take 2 volleys, sometimes 3. I do spend a lot of time managing my launchers to avoid 'wasted' shots, but still just a minor annoyance and totally worth it. In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has angered numerous people for many different reasons and is widely considered as a 'bad move'.
Mnemosyne Gloob Teshnology Inc. Stealth Wear Inc. 30	Posted - 2012.01.06 16:26:00 - [29] - Quote Ah we are now at Tengu again. sigh OP is a week old and i still think Vexor is a good intermediate step. I would also like to mention that you can do exploration and not fly a Tengu (blasphemy lol) ... It's the king, sure, but you people sometimes sound as if anything else is a complete failure heh.
5nipe Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2012.01.06 16:41:00 - [30] - Quote Vexor -> Ishtar Arbitrator -> Pilgrim Gila -> Tengu with pvp prospective (except the case of 0.0 rifter rookie pvp starter kit) I will go for Arbitrator. Even Tengu means Falcon. Ishtar has no single significant advantage over Gila for exploration (even price tags are about the same) not in short run, neither in long run. And this is all last few post about, not that there is no world without Tengu.



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