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Investigation on D-ston, Report

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Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 658	Posted - 2012.01.06 10:09:00 - [1] - Quote The PIE directorate will study this report and its recommendations. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 658	Posted - 2012.01.06 13:21:00 - [2] - Quote Kalaratiri wrote: I'm a little confused. As far as I was aware, the Disciples of Ston already agreed to letting Ms. Goldcore visit for investigative purposes, and yet here she says they refused her? Is having some impartial observers along that much of an issue? There would have been no issue with impartial observers, but pilots who are current war targets or considered KOS can hardly be described as that. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 658	Posted - 2012.01.07 13:54:00 - [3] - Quote From: TES Temal Kador, Apocalypse Class (Navy Issue) Location: Amarr *BEGIN TRANSMISSION* After due consideration the PIE leadership is concerned by the lack of co-operation from the Disciples of Ston and concurs with Lt Goldcore that they are almost certainly hiding something. However, what is unclear from the results of the investigation is whether or not they have directly supported Republic military operations (the subject of the investigation). Therefore we will not be implementing the full recommendations of the report at this time. Instead, we will be setting the Disciples of Ston to orange standings. As such, we will be closely monitoring their activities. Should any new evidence emerge that proves direct support of Republican activities their standings will be altered accordingly. The question remains of what exactly the Disciples have to hide. During the course of the investigation Manwe Todako claimed that "among our over 13,000 residents are a good number of former slaves who slaved aboard the war vessels of PIE and the 24th Imperial Crusade." His response to a request for further information on this specific point was a generic statement regarding slaves found in cans. This was not a satisfactory answer. It would appear that the Disciples are not simply rescuing slaves discarded or otherwise released by their owners, but that they are also obtaining slaves from battlefields. Whilst we appreciate the efforts of the Disciples to rescue them, these slaves remain the property of their owners, and they should not have been transferred out of the Empire. Indeed, ideally efforts should have been made to return them to their owners. Should any such slaves have left the Empire, it would indicate that the Disciples have in fact been running what I believe some people might call an "underground monorail" carrying slaves away from their rightful owners. As such, we request a full manifest of all slaves acquired by the Disciples since their formation to be made available to the public. This manifest must include the details of where and how each slave was acquired and their current location. This manifest should be published within seven days. Furthermore, we expect the Disciples to arrange for the return to PIE of all slaves recovered from PIE vessels within fourteen days. Failure to carry out these requests may result in further action from PIE. *TRANSMISSION ENDS* Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 658	Posted - 2012.01.07 15:28:00 - [4] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: Surely Captain Todako, complying with the Admiral's previous request as to details of which members of PIE you have found to abandon civilians in cans is at least acceptable. Without going into specific details, I'm sure the Admiral will be greatful for the information to conduct his own in house investigations. For the record, we will investigate any allegations of abandonment levelled at PIE officers and that is one reason why the manifest was requested. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 659	Posted - 2012.01.08 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Manwe Todako wrote: OK, I'll try to be as clear as I can. The information about where former slaves came from comes from the following sources. 1. Former slave testimonies 2. Other pilots who have transported rescued former slaves to us We only have the word of others to go by. I am sorry if I was unclear about that. Anyone can check the names of the pilots we list on the Wall of Shame. I do not know if any of them are members of PIE. Below is also a list of pilot name given to us by another Capsuleer who has been active in rescuing former slaves. Feel free to look them up. Again, look at Captain Blake's orignal post and note that his concern is not in investigating his own people but trying to return their slaves to them. [list of names] So you decided to allege that PIE officers had been abandoning slaves to their deaths without first checking your facts? I think that you owe every single member of PIE a public apology for your false and egregious accusation. Also, I still want to see a full manifest of all slaves received by your corporation produced by you in the interests of transparency. Where slaves have been handed to you by another capsuleer, that capsuleer should be named, so what you claim can be verified. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 670	Posted - 2012.01.14 22:19:00 - [6] - Quote Seven days have passed, and the Disciples of Ston have completely failed to co-operate with my perfectly reasonable request. Disciples of Ston pilots are hereby advised that PIE officers are now authorised to fire upon their vessels. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 673	Posted - 2012.01.17 19:04:00 - [7] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: Aphoxema G wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: Seven days have passed, and the Disciples of Ston have completely failed to co-operate with my perfectly reasonable request. Disciples of Ston pilots are hereby advised that PIE officers are now authorised to fire upon their vessels. And you call us terrorists. What galls me is that PIE is not only allowing but authorizing the attack of unarmed and/or lightly defended civilian vessels. Guess we know where they stand on morality now, don't we? I think that quite a few people would agree with me that it's immoral to loot other people's property which is what D-STON have been doing. But if they don't want to be shot at they simply need to cease operations near PIE vessels. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 673	Posted - 2012.01.17 21:37:00 - [8] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: Astrid Stjerna wrote: All I'm saying is that the Disciples have not taken an active role in any kind of combat duty against the Empire, and attacking a neutral target has little to do with 'protecting the Empire'. Thievery of property counts as an act of aggression and combat, yes? Agression? Possibly. Stealing could be considered an inherently aggressive action. However, I don't consider what the Disciples are doing to be 'theft', for the primary reason that the holder has willingly discarded unwanted property. Firstly, the Disciples have failed to provide any evidence that all of the slaves in their possession were gathered in this way. Secondly, simply coming across slaves in a jetcan is not in itself indicative that they were willingly abandoned by their legal owner. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 673	Posted - 2012.01.17 22:39:00 - [9] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: The Disciples of Ston have kept quite an extensive list on this very forum that outlines the results of their rescue operations. Wherever possible, the Disciples have attempted to communicate with the person who discarded the can and verify that ti was an intentional 'dumping' (and at least one pilot has openly admitted that her slaves were dumped in favor of a crate of munitions). If their list were that extensive, they would have had no difficulty in complying with my request. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 673	Posted - 2012.01.17 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote Astrid Stjerna wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: If their list were that extensive, they would have had no difficulty in complying with my request. The Disciples attempted to communicate privately and resolve any issues that were preventing an inspection of their facilities from going forward. In my view one does not attempt to communicate privately by publishing confidential messages for all to see. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 675	Posted - 2012.01.18 08:18:00 - [11] - Quote We refused to compromise? We started off by wanting to inspect their facilities. When this was unacceptable to them without the presence of terrorists, we offered them the presence of neutral observers. When this was still unacceptable to them we offered to forget about the inspection and instead asked for a manifest. And they still refused. We've done little but compromise during this whole affair. They have been given every opportunity to defend themselves, but they have continually refused. And now it would appear that they are even refusing to speak in public about this despite originally insisting that this was how they wanted things to proceed. Clearly they have something nefarious to hide. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 676	Posted - 2012.01.18 10:53:00 - [12] - Quote Khazarn Areth wrote: I operate within Imperial space yet i never recall receiving a search order from PIE, is this because you prefer to go against those that cant defend themselves? You may recall that this is not the first investigation that we've carried out, and previously investigated parties such as No.Mercy have been more than capable of defending themselves. Maybe you've never been investigated because your blasphemies are in plain sight for all to see. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 676	Posted - 2012.01.18 12:54:00 - [13] - Quote Rek Jaiga wrote: I've been reading through here and while I (of course) agree with my comrades, I have an entirely different point to raise. Not to doubt the incredible capabilities of PIE Inc, but shouldn't this be left to the MIO? Or do you doubt your own government's prowess in investigating even capsuleers? I'm quite certain if the Disciples of Ston were breaking Imperial law they'd have been arrested, kicked out of Empire space, or at least added to the Amarr Imperial Navy's kill-on-sight list. Perhaps by doing less you can do more. So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 677	Posted - 2012.01.18 13:35:00 - [14] - Quote Rek Jaiga wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object? If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt. But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting? I fail to see what being a pacifist has to do with this. I imagine that you'd still be pretty angry if someone stole your property but did so without violence. Anyway, removal of another's property without permission (aka theft) is one crime that springs to mind. Receiving stolen goods is another. And by the way, setting one corporation red does not prevent us from opposing what you describe as "actual outlaw gangs." Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 677	Posted - 2012.01.18 13:38:00 - [15] - Quote Ava Starfire wrote: Rek Jaiga wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: So you'd be quite happy for me to go into Republican space and do pretty much anything I liked as long as the Minmatar authorities didn't object? If you did something illegal (such as human trafficking) the Fleet and RSS would come down on you with swift Matari speed. If you're just fetching a bottle of Chest Wound I don't think they'd mind, though your status as an Imperial militiaman would still result in justice being dealt. But remember, Ston and gang are pacifists. What real crimes have they commited as compared to the actual outlaw gangs you really should be fighting? Those outlaws are the friends of the Militia, Rek... as evinced by the 9 or so outlaw, non-militia carriers the 24th IC called to their aid during the battle at the bunker in Siseide. Morality and legality mean whatever the good Admiral wants them to mean at the moment he utters the word. No more. No less. Once again, I remind you that we have in past investigated the activities of militia corporations. It's funny how the usual anti-Amarrian crowd didn't claim that we had no right to do so when it happened. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 678	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:31:00 - [16] - Quote Caellach Marellus wrote: Ran'shad wrote: I would have expected the Disciples to be more vocal on this topic.....and yet we have not heard fromthem for several days now. This is very uncharacteristic of them, as they seem to love to blather on ad nauseum at the drop of a hat. What has changed??? Why the sudden silence? What are they up to? I would humbly suggest that the matriculation centres be put under ongoing and covert observation, as the disciples are so fond of saying they (the centres) are run by their own councils.....what is stopping them from the councils - in the spirit of self-determination - have not chosen to arm and prepare to fight any effort by Amarrian authorities to inspect them? Poor form, a bit of simple forum reading would answer that question for you. As far as I know, their vow of silence does not extend to private communications. They could easily take measures to resolve this. But I've heard nothing from them. Their silence speaks volumes. It appears that they're perfectly happy to hide behind their Shaokorite shills, which doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that they're little more than a front organisation for an underground monorail. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 680	Posted - 2012.01.18 18:17:00 - [17] - Quote I'm quite happy for further diplomacy to happen, but as I've already said the silence from the Disciples speaks volumes. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 683	Posted - 2012.01.19 18:52:00 - [18] - Quote Rek Jaiga wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: I'm quite happy for further diplomacy to happen, but as I've already said the silence from the Disciples speaks volumes. Mmkay Now I know they teach basic reasoning skills in Amarrian schools...my Holder sent me to one, after all. Except that in the example of the Disciples their silence is itself evidence rather than the absence of evidence because their silence is a conscious decision. And that decision can only have a limited number of reasons behind it. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. 683	Posted - 2012.01.19 19:00:00 - [19] - Quote Rek Jaiga wrote: I've been reading through here and while I (of course) agree with my comrades, I have an entirely different point to raise. Not to doubt the incredible capabilities of PIE Inc, but shouldn't this be left to the MIO? Or do you doubt your own government's prowess in investigating even capsuleers? I'm quite certain if the Disciples of Ston were breaking Imperial law they'd have been arrested, kicked out of Empire space, or at least added to the Amarr Imperial Navy's kill-on-sight list. In high sec. I'm sure that you'd be the first to agree with me that the authorities would only come down on criminals in areas where they patrol - ie high sec. Using basic logic, one knows that if the cops are not there to see you, they will not take action. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

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