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Trial Accounts and ISK Sellers

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Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.24 16:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Ilfar on 24/06/2007 16:13:01 First off: (Images are around 500kb each) http://www.planetfall.net.nz/images/eveshots/petition1.jpg http://www.planetfall.net.nz/images/eveshots/petition2.jpg We. Have. A. Problem. (As I type this, two advertising bots are FIGHTING spam vs spam in the Matari channel.) My proposed solution: Trial accounts created without use of the buddy program can only access a small subset of channels: Help, Rookie Help, NPC Corp, Local, etc. These accounts can access other channels, IF they are invited into these channels. If they are invited into a certain channel, the inviting account is then FULLY LIABLE for anything they do in that channel. A warning popup is probably appropriate for the inviter there. Trial accounts created by use of the buddy program have standard access, but the account used to create the trial key is FULLY LIABLE (Mmm, caps) for anything that trial account does. Once again, a warning is probably appropriate there. That's it, I'm done. I'd appreciate constructive suggestions on modifications to the above. Much as I'd like to see the levels of support, I'd rather "I agree" or "I disagree" type posts be kept out of the thread. We're not going to get anything done if no one can be bothered reading it. ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.06.24 16:40:00 - [2] I have a better solution. Trial accounts get their own help account ( those that are not created by the buddy program ) and if spam accounts are created throught the buddy program ( all accounts ) are banned. If they need help they can file a petition, or perhaps have one channel where IF people want to help trial users they can. Keep the rookie channel for paid accounts who are just new. I didn't even use a trial when I started ( $20 to play a game for couple hours ) seemed like a good deal.
Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.06.24 18:33:00 - [3] To clarify, I meant the warnings to be along the lines of "Warning: You are fully liable for all actions of the account you are about to help/create." rather than a warning about the created account doing something bad. I fully agree with bannings. Maybe one to three day bannings for a first offence, with the second being a permaban. It has to hurt or it's not worth using as a deterrent in my opinion. ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...
Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.08 01:07:00 - [4] http://www.planetfall.net.nz/images/eveshots/petition3.jpg Incidentally, the latest petition still has had no response after nearly 15 minutes. One message every thirty seconds or so the entire time... ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...
shady trader	Posted - 2007.07.08 13:01:00 - [5] Another way to make it harder for ISK buyers it so limit who can transfer money. Limit it to the following people. 1) The receive has possitive standing to the sender, so the reciever has to know the sender. This way the seller has to get the buyer to do more work. 2) Memember of the same player corp or allaince. 3) The receive has agrro on the sender (i.e. ramsons) 4) Corp to corp/allanice to pay fees merc contracts etc.
Miptor	Posted - 2007.07.08 15:28:00 - [6] Originally by: shady trader Another way to make it harder for ISK buyers it so limit who can transfer money. Limit it to the following people. 1) The receive has possitive standing to the sender, so the reciever has to know the sender. This way the seller has to get the buyer to do more work. 2) Memember of the same player corp or allaince. 3) The receive has agrro on the sender (i.e. ramsons) this is not a good idea.... (not to discredit you in any way) Just last night i sold an item to a guy i didn't know. This puts a bind in trading and selling anything. I have done stuff for people and made a deal with them to give me enough ISK to buy battleships... but the main thing is... keeping these guys off the trial accounts and accessing the EVE players in chat. ISK sellers need their hardware banned or something. There should be a vote system in chat that can kick these guys out or something.... they are irritating to the EVE way of life. 4) Corp to corp/allanice to pay fees merc contracts etc.
Sunborne	Posted - 2007.07.08 17:33:00 - [7] Yeah, voting would be a good thing to have in chat.
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:22:00 - [8] You increase the queue of petition ... CCP need to make a iskseller ban tool :P You write the URL of one of these site, you are instant ban. The true player which have make an error or other, send a mail and retrieve account, the guys which create a lot of trial stop it ! Another thing, let only player give trial account. When a trial account abuse, you can ban the account which have give the trial code ! CCP, you need to make something for that and macromining !!!
CyberGh0st Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.08 20:28:00 - [9] What we really need, and is not hard to implement is an option to right click a name and report them for eula violation. Then a subsystem where you can choose between ISK seller, Botter, Macro Miner, etc. Then a confirm button and voila, yer done. Make it easier and faster to report people. CyberGh0st aka Cyberwiz aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Retired @ Bors DAoC / Atlantic UO / Sunstrider WoW / Valcyn SWG / Snowbourn LOTRO / Planetside / Entropia / Lineage / Guildwars
Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:20:00 - [10] @shady: I don't really agree with the limits to who can transfer ISK to who, but I'm probably the exception in that I like to give away free ISK to folk ;) I'd agree with the limits if transfers outside them incurred a percentage fee of the ISK transferred though. ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...
Aracna Imahovich Caldari Manticore.	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:24:00 - [11] I totally am in the line of this thread.. PLZ try and make us not having to see them damn isk sellers everywhere, block trial accounts from the tradechannels and channels not needed for a younger then 14 days old character.
CrestoftheStars Perkone	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:56:00 - [12] trail account get there own universe untill activated, they will be prohibited to the things that you can learn on a trail and will be moved to the real universe when activated. the trail universe is a 100 system big and have up to lvl 3 missions, and down too 0.3 sec systems. this will make people finding the game exciting wanting more and activating their accounts and it will stop any and all misuse of trail accounts ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.07.10 05:53:00 - [13] Yes a trial training universe. You can up skill, hunt, discover this part of universe (All is created for understand the game, you place a mobile warp not killable in a 0.0 system with npc by example and a little message for explain that :) ). When your account is payed, you can take a gate for join EvE (Like deapspace gate).
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.07.10 11:58:00 - [14] When I joined Eve, trial account had way more powers, and I was able to fly an industrial ship and I tried ninja trading in lowsec and I play eve because I liked it. Trial account is much restricted now and restricting it more will result in less trials staying in game. I know mot of old players dont care or even would prefer so, but I guess CCP would like more people to play the game. But I have a problem with ISK seller spam too. Try this; -Automated moderation, including flood (3 identical messages could count) and known URLs. Naturally innocent people may flood or send known ISK trade URLs ("hey I just got this link; www.buyisk.com. Is this thing legal or should I report it?") so no automatic bans but can ban people from channel for hour, send them warning and queue for GM investigation. -"petition this as EULA illegal spam" in right click menu of chat message. 5 on one person within limited hour could reult in automated channel ban and GM investigation. Naturally, abuse of this power should be punished too.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Defcon One Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 13:45:00 - [15] Give no power to players, voting for channel bans, or such stuff... Really, you need an automated system that does not broadcast the messages that were the exact same as the previous one. It works like that in guildwars, you can't spam too much with wtb or wts adds (those are legit ingame trade in towns but limited repetition), or other messages that are always the same. Also save a counter for every player and have a "spam per day" average which should be secret to CCP (and the limit where it calls a GM too and this limit will change, it's mostly tuning to get the right value), and then a GM can investigate from the "saved spam" or follow the user in th channels and ban him is he is isk spamming. Common answers like ok, yes, no or any other stuff we always say wouldn't be counted... Take load off the GMs, make some automation that prepares all the evidence of spam! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
vinnymcg Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:35:00 - [16] Ilfar, why the hell are you spamming the petition system, once a week for something like this is just fine. If you are trying to get each person banned that is just silly because as each person gets band the advertiser will no doubt just create another account. Advertisers are all over eve and CCP knows about it and untill they create some mega software able to kill them there is noting CCP or we can do about it. Remotely Delete Jump clones tread COMPSOC
Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.10 21:35:00 - [17] It's taken over 20 minutes to get a response to a petition sometimes, what do you think would have happened if it hadn't been petitioned at all? I petition for a number of reasons. To ensure the seller is responded to quickly, to give myself a log of how many sellers I've seen, to give an indication of how annoying I find the sellers... You can't tell me this topic would carry the same weight without the three pages of petitions regarding the sellers. * * * * * I don't really agree with anything that requires players to trigger the banning, muting, or other action. Someone with multiple accounts could do a fair bit of damage with a system like that. And while it is extremely annoying, I'm not sure it's quite bad enough to warrant a UI change (and another option I can accidentally select is never a good idea) ;) I like Ellaine's first idea, although some of these sellers only send one message rather than spam repeatedly it would catch the really annoying ones. URLs are tricky things to block, since you can always create a new one, or use one of the free sites on offer out there to create a temporary link. Limiting trial accounts more than is already done will probably start backfiring and turning people away, the problem is how to allow for interaction with the larger Eve community (which is the big drawcard for a number of folk, me included) while limiting the damage they can do in said interactions. Beyond what I've already suggested I just can't think of anything, unfortunately :( ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...
Katana Seiko Made in Germany	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:24:00 - [18] If I remember correctly you can currently get a trial account without knowing anyone who could give you a code... That just turned things from bad to worse... Limit the number of active buddy codes to three at a time, and add an option to the rightclick menu: Warn for spam abuse. The player who warns has to pay the usual CSPA fees, and if i.e. over 100 warnings add up over a week (from 100 different players), these accounts will be banned for one week, beginning with the last warning. I guess, something like that isn't too hard to implement, will help the GM's (less petitions to shuffle), and it will definetely grief the ISK sellers... Oh, and someone tell google not to show advertisements anymore that have to do with selling ingame property... An other point: WoW is using limited scans to prevent cheats... We want to live in a cheat free universe as well, can we please have those limited scans too? You can get the signatures to look for very cheap on ebay, these macro tools are (beside ISK) for sale over there... -- The future begins now - in EVE we live it, in real life we create it! Your sig is too big. Please keep it under 400x120 and less than 24000 bytes. -the sexiest moderator ([email protected]
Sarf Asgard Industries Safe And Fun Environment	Posted - 2007.07.10 22:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Kirov VIII You increase the queue of petition ... CCP need to make a iskseller ban tool :P You write the URL of one of these site, you are instant ban. The true player which have make an error or other, send a mail and retrieve account, the guys which create a lot of trial stop it ! all that means is you will see 'BuyIskCheap dot com' - Sarf CEO, Director of Freighter construction. Miner of small balls of dirt.
LORD IZE	Posted - 2007.07.11 00:41:00 - [20] Ban all trial accounts from trade channels and the problem is solved. There isnt' a make or break for a trial account by accessing these channels so its a no lose proposal.
Angelica Tharax Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.11 09:33:00 - [21] Edited by: Angelica Tharax on 11/07/2007 09:33:44 In order to get rid of this plague, one would first need to understand how the ISK sellers operate. A trial account acts as spambot, that much is certain. The ISK themselfes, are they tranferred from (another) trial account? If the ISK are transferred from a paid account, watch that account for a month or so and then ban both sellers and customers. Can anyone explain the modus operandi of ISK sellers?
super canard Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.07.11 09:35:00 - [22] how about trial accounts only get access to the test server? :) -------------------------------------------------- No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. --------------------------------------------------
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Defcon One Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 10:09:00 - [23] Do not disgust new players from playing... And the test server is NOT for that, it's for testing, to have new features that can be fully bugged, it's not attracting at all for the new players. Also, they have to interact with the community, because the comunity makes the game. What needs to be done is to following the cash flow from the isk farmers (macros or guys in a country where manpower is cheap who spend all day making isk mining or farming, or a guy with 20 computer that runs from one keyboard to the other to move ore to jetcans, or it could be full time trading) to the isk seller and then to the customer. Any player donation with sufficient amount or repetition over time is suspect, needs tools to automatically show the cashflows as graphs filtering with the biggest isk givers (that could be sellers). Then the sites must be visited and any clue about the caracters used taken, isk bought by CCP in small quantities from all the sites, then you point the used characters in the cashflow graph and make fall an isk selling network. This is not an easy task, it would require much manpower and also spending real money from CCP to discover the sellers. And then the best organized isk sellers will find ways to avoid such system. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
super canard Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.07.11 10:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Do not disgust new players from playing... And the test server is NOT for that, it's for testing, to have new features that can be fully bugged, it's not attracting at all for the new players. Also, they have to interact with the community, because the comunity makes the game. Point taken :) -------------------------------------------------- No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. --------------------------------------------------
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.07.12 10:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Sarf Originally by: Kirov VIII You increase the queue of petition ... CCP need to make a iskseller ban tool :P You write the URL of one of these site, you are instant ban. The true player which have make an error or other, send a mail and retrieve account, the guys which create a lot of trial stop it ! all that means is you will see 'BuyIskCheap dot com' Its still something. If its not a link to click or copy URL for external browser, less people will go there and buy isk because its 10 seconds more effort transcribing url. Less effective promotion = less incentive to do it = less spam, even if its only 15% less. Same works with email spam - automated spam filters and spammers have constant war. In effect You dont get "buy viagra" email but "\/\|AGr/\" or something as ugly, and a fuzzy image inside. This is even less "trustworthy" and spammers get less and less clients thanks to this. So automated filters are worth a try.
Ilfar Minmatar Manta Ice Ilfar Collective Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Ilfar on 12/07/2007 21:03:14 DO NOT DO THIS YOURSELF! I did a small purchase of ISK once to catch an annoying spammer (Char: Dareln) and petitioned it as such. The seller used a trial account to transfer the ISK to me, and deleted the account straight away afterwards. Of course, CCP caught up with him regardless and they apparently got something like 40 accounts off that one. I very nearly got banned for that one, and got a very strong "Do NOT do this" warning. Yes it gets rid of that group, but at the same time it's paying them something. We're trying to find a way that results in them getting NO money, rather than just a smaller amount. /DO NOT DO THIS YOURSELF! ----------------------- Press to test... click Release to detonate...

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