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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.01.18 18:50:00 -
[1]
It is a terrible thing that you can always warp to a moon or a safe spot when a superiour force is after you and log of. A possible solution would be:
- Ship disapears just like now after 2 minutes. Then it is gone for perhaps 5 minutes, then it comes back again.
The reason it comes back is so that the following army can then find it and destroy it if the person is waiting untill next day to slip away. And the reason it dissapears at all is so those that have a crash or need to attend to a quick real life issue (door rings etc) will have a chance. Of course people could keep on logging on and of all the time and that would be silly. This you can correct by only allowing 1-2 of logs every hour or even less.
- Another solution would be like I heard it was in beta, that the ship warped away randomly to say a safe spot. This would still take quiet some time to find so would give the user enough chance to have a quick break.
- There is a problem with ships floating in space when you are offline, and that is when you are very very far out, there are no stations and it is terrible to *must* go first 20-60 jumps out and then 20-60 jumps back at the same day all without shutting down the game. Solution: Have "hybernation docks" spread out in space. You can do nothing at all in these mini-stations expect park your ship safely. These should be spread out with perhaps 2-5 systems interval at all places, so you rarely have to travel more than 5 jumps before going to bed. that can still take 10min in an indy. You don't have to do something super advanced graphically for these, so they should hopefully not take that much time. Another possible quick fix is that if you log at some gates your ship will disapear and be safe. They could be marked with something moving in space outside of gate similar to the floating bulentin boards.
Generally it's fairly pointless with fights, that you _always_ can run from. This could be one step to solve it.
/Phoibos
DreamScape
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DaSaint
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Posted - 2004.01.18 19:20:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
- There is a problem with ships floating in space when you are offline, and that is when you are very very far out, there are no stations and it is terrible to *must* go first 20-60 jumps out and then 20-60 jumps back at the same day all without shutting down the game. Solution: Have "hybernation docks" spread out in space. You can do nothing at all in these mini-stations expect park your ship safely. These should be spread out with perhaps 2-5 systems interval at all places, so you rarely have to travel more than 5 jumps before going to bed. that can still take 10min in an indy. You don't have to do something super advanced graphically for these, so they should hopefully not take that much time. Another possible quick fix is that if you log at some gates your ship will disapear and be safe. They could be marked with something moving in space outside of gate similar to the floating bulentin boards.
Uhm, turning the Bullettin Board into a floating motel could be an idea, but would be like a permanent safe spot. U sure this is what you want?...
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it's out there
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2004.01.18 19:30:00 -
[3]
Quote:
A possible solution would be:
- Ship disapears just like now after 2 minutes. Then it is gone for perhaps 5 minutes, then it comes back again.
/Phoibos
DreamScape
Er?
What?
Okay say the server connection is flaky, or the wonder CTD heaven returns, or possibly a players connection dies. You'll have them drop whereevere they happen to be..say in middle of a 4battleship npc spawn, and return there so die.
Nice suggestion, really well thought through, good way to have players quitting in their masses.
There will always have to be some accomodation for connection failure, and there is no way to tell this from a player logging out, and if there were players would log out by switching off their modem/dsl/network for a second.
Just wiat for the scout friagtes that can warp to ships on autoscanner, then everyones happy, as one/two minutes will probbaly be a reasonable length of time.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.01.18 21:10:00 -
[4]
Well if you have a ctd in a npc field you are usually dead anyway since they ship stays for 2minutes now anyway. correct? Also this is why you would have 5-10min to reconnect. your ship would be hidden for this time, or if it autowarps away that would help to. So I don't really see your point. You have the ability to connect again real fast.
/Phoibos
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.01.18 21:13:00 -
[5]
A permanent safe spot doesn't sound good now. Perhaps you can only "sleep" in them, and not dock. Meaning that you can only go there and log of and after 1min or so your ship disapears and is now safe. But yes it would be silly if people are safe in it.
/Phoibos
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Siphol Kalarth
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Posted - 2004.01.19 08:16:00 -
[6]
Why not just have the ship attempt to warp to random co-ordinates when the link to the client drops (log-out or ctd), then wait 2 minutes before disapearing.
If the ship was in a safe situation beforehand it'll still be there.
If it was warp scrambled there's every chance it'll be dead.
Not perfect I agree, the player doesn't have the option of fighting back when they're disconnected. However if the modules carry on functioning while the warp alignment takes place they've got a better chance than currently.
I keep faith, it's only what I believe in that changes.
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Verdone
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Posted - 2004.01.19 10:05:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Verdone on 19/01/2004 10:05:50
Simple solution, when u get shot, u aint able to log off within the next ten minutes.
Or u have fired upon anyone u cant log off either within the next ten minutes etc etc etc
And damned proud! |
Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.01.19 11:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Psy Corp on 19/01/2004 11:32:25
Quote:
It is a terrible thing that you can always warp to a moon or a safe spot when a superiour force is after you and log of. A possible solution would be:
like it sounds like to you that just because we are 10 and you are 1 you have to stay and die and have no mean of escaping getting dead..
Quote:
- Ship disapears just like now after 2 minutes. Then it is gone for perhaps 5 minutes, then it comes back again.
i dont see anything that would improve anything in this it would only make people that actually loose there isp connection killed.. actually it would only make things worse
Quote:
The reason it comes back is so that the following army can then find it and destroy it if the person is waiting untill next day to slip away. And the reason it dissapears at all is so those that have a crash or need to attend to a quick real life issue (door rings etc) will have a chance. Of course people could keep on logging on and of all the time and that would be silly. This you can correct by only allowing 1-2 of logs every hour or even less.
now this is actually funny.. think at it this way a person comes into the system and warps to a moon and his isp connection actually dies for like 1 hour.. its not his fault but ohh the game makes it his problem that the isp dies cause his dead.. ohh and 1-2 logs/hour  do you know that you actually get like 10 ctds an hour when its bad so that would make half of eve generaly kicked out of playing the game after 10 minutes ...
Quote:
- Another solution would be like I heard it was in beta, that the ship warped away randomly to say a safe spot. This would still take quiet some time to find so would give the user enough chance to have a quick break.
your so binding people to play 24/7.. dont log out cause then you can die and ohh for god sake have atleaste 4 isp connections at home so if one dies you can quickly switch
Quote:
- There is a problem with ships floating in space when you are offline, and that is when you are very very far out, there are no stations and it is terrible to *must* go first 20-60 jumps out and then 20-60 jumps back at the same day all without shutting down the game. Solution: Have "hybernation docks" spread out in space. You can do nothing at all in these mini-stations expect park your ship safely. These should be spread out with perhaps 2-5 systems interval at all places, so you rarely have to travel more than 5 jumps before going to bed. that can still take 10min in an indy. You don't have to do something super advanced graphically for these, so they should hopefully not take that much time. Another possible quick fix is that if you log at some gates your ship will disapear and be safe. They could be marked with something moving in space outside of gate similar to the floating bulentin boards.
actually kinda good but nope like it better now cause it would only be the same way just that people would instead camp at only these gates where you can get safe so you can run by logging 
Quote:
Generally it's fairly pointless with fights, that you _always_ can run from. This could be one step to solve it.
me thinks you should think out a better tactic
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Phoibos
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Posted - 2004.01.19 14:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Phoibos on 19/01/2004 14:27:25
Well that was a pretty good answer I think. I don't clam that this is a superiour idea, it's just an idea after all. You should also know that my perspective is actually not as an attacker. I am usually alone in space around nasty pirates, I'm usually not one of the hunters myself. But the problem I think generally is that I'm usually untouchable. I have never been shot down in unsafe space in 6-7month allthough I most of the time are in some of the worst places of Eve. And well that is because I can always run, away or around them etc.
But I have also been in parties hunting pirates, and it very seldom works if the pirate isn't stupid or well brave. Since he just realices ah. well they are too many i will log of for 2 hours. And it's also great fun if you have one guy in a frig sitting at a safe spot somewhere almost impossible to find and you have 10+ bs waiting for him. just waiting... not fun i think.
I think it shoudl be much more like in real world. If you go into China with one guy and they find you you are in deep trouble indeed. Of course escape shoudl be possible, but not always like it is now.
Personally i think it makes sense just like in naval battle. If you have 2 ships and they got 20 ship that are faster and have bigger guns, well then you will most likely die.
I have played with modem and broadband and haven't had that bad connection myself. It's a tough nut to *****. But how will we ever have any good fights if you can run in 1min always? And then pop in when they drop of and kill them very fast.
/Phoibos
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.01.19 15:38:00 -
[10]
Solution=
When a pc has a lock on you you do not log off.
When an npc locks you normal rules-2min- apply.
Not sure how hard it would be to code tho
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.01.20 08:09:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Solution=
When a pc has a lock on you you do not log off.
When an npc locks you normal rules-2min- apply.
Not sure how hard it would be to code tho
yeah thats a realy goood one could you smack that into the devs so they code it Soon(TM) 
but seriously realy good solution i think..
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.01.20 16:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ruffles on 20/01/2004 16:40:52
The cost of the loss is the issue in this game.
In other games like DAoC, we were all used to getting to PvP and basically loosing nothing for your efforts, as the timer for disconnecting would always reset if you were hit again. However, you could NEVER log off in a fight in that game. If you were hit or marked as in combat, you could not ever log off. You could close the game and disconnect or some other scummy result, but you would inevitably die for that slimey nature.
This game you stand to loose a lot. Its harsh.
I still disagree though. You can't base an entire games combat on 'What if a CTD happens'. Well in those cases you expect to be able to appeal for the loss due to the bug in the game, but I really see it as flawed that we should base the choice for this on these types of issues.
Lets face facts people, this is being used as some exploitative means to avoid loosing your ship. Taking advantage of the game mechanics to possibly stand a chance to survive.
It works, or it wouldn't be as big a problem as it has and is.
You can not solve both issues of connectivity and removal of this problem, but you have to address one or the other.
What will peoples view of the game be if they come here for pvp and people just log on them to avoid the fights?
Quite a few times this topic has come up in the past and I will try to find the other threads we posted in to in the past about this.
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Shaqan
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Posted - 2004.01.21 11:48:00 -
[13]
I agree that something must be done to this. It is used as an exploit afterall. I've been killed by pirates several times, and i've never "pulled the plug" and hoped that i would survive for more than 2mins and thus be safe (maybe because i knew they would bust my arse long before the 2min had passed anyways).
I've attacked one pirate so far (i know, not much to brag about). Guess what he did when he realized he was losing? he logged.
GROOAR!
Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2004.01.21 13:23:00 -
[14]
How about fixing the problem at the source. Add in a line of code whereby if the user clicks on the Quit button (or tries the alt-f4 key combination, or the CTRL-ALT delete to shutdown the game) then the game has stored that they have logged out. If they do this in space their ship will remaning there for a couple of hours (time is debatable but who cares).
If they CTD a log out is not recorded and their ship disappears after 10seconds.
If this is possible then it shouldnt be exploitable. Only problem is the devs would need to work out all the possible ways a person can try and shut the game down without going through the proper process to prevent them simulating a ctd to exploit it.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Shaqan
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Posted - 2004.01.21 19:17:00 -
[15]
@wild
they will still be able to pull the plug on their network card or some similar action to "simulate CTD"
Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know. |
Missa
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Posted - 2004.01.21 23:56:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Missa on 22/01/2004 00:00:28
*Begin Rant*
The problem with players logging to avoid/escape a fight is not and problem with the game or game mechanics. It is a total lack of maturity in this supposedly ôadultö gaming community (if you have a credit card and can pay for eve, I assume you are an adult and will handle yourself accordingly). The rules of a game are designed to cover a broad set of circumstances and all players, in this case the game removing your ship from play once your network connection to eve has been terminated. It is not designed to deal with: children, griefers, or cowards and never will/should be. CCP is not your mom, it is not their responsibility to make immature people functioning adults. Sure they try their best to make it harder for people to abuse the rules of their game, but in the end it all comes down to the playerbase to ôplay by civilized rulesö for the enjoyment of the game by all.
In the end the only way you will truly remove problem players from any game is to organize in-game and push them out by making the gameplay experience unbearable for them as long as they continue to exhibit problem play. The problem with a game like Eve is that there will likely always be more problem players than players trying to make the game fun and enjoyable.
Now donÆt get my wrong and think that I support griefing as a whole, but more so I know from personal experience that it can be an effective tool when surgically used to destroy a cancer from within a game. Short of player intervention there is only 1 other way I know to stop people from logging to avoid combat in this manneràWhen engaged in combat with a player, turn off all high, mid and low slot items if/when a player disconnects from the game (but not in NPC situations). This way you would have a clean 2 minutes to blast into them without their linkdead ship healing itself constantly. If you cannot kill someone in 2 minutes when they are helplessàyou probably couldnÆt kill them in 5 with their defenses running.
*End Rant*
PS. Kudos to the handfull of youth who do play this game with more maturity than some of the 40 y/o's
--Missa
New Siggy to Come Soon(tm) |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.01.22 00:11:00 -
[17]
I think maybe your ship should stay in space for 3mins instead of 2mins, that id give enough time....1min for the frig to find the ship and another 2mins for a another ship to blow it up. But still leaving it ok for some1 to log off if there is nobody else in the system
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