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Bellicose and Target Painting

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Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.26 21:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 26/06/2007 21:57:02 Judging by the Jita sales the bellicose is THE crappiest cruiser around, even the arbitrator outsells it about 30x. So dev's can we get some TargetPainting or Bellicose love ? 5'th midslot on the bellicose wouldnt hurt. Or give it a 15% bonus to web range instead.
Meditril	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:07:00 - [2] 7.5% Bonus per level for target painting is simply a joke. Target painters are not much of use in most situations... so give the Belli and its Tech 2 counterparts either a really good bonus like 15% per level or change the bonus to something else, e.g. 10% additional shield strenght per level.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:09:00 - [3] I would like to have a dedicated tp boat in my gang...
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Defcon One Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:04:00 - [4] The bellicose would be useful if it could either : -paint a cruiser so much that it would be heavyly damaged by cruise/torps -paint enough an interceptor so that heavy missiles do as much damage as on a destroyer -do this on several targets -> add 100% signature with a single TP (because it has few meds). The best target painter is 30%, the bellicose at lvl 4 is 1.3 multiplier on the TP bonus, the signature focusing skill adds 1.2 multiplier on lvl 4, it should do around 46.4% bonus to the targeted ship's signature. This is CRAP! My celestis takes easy 66% off the targeting range and resolution of ennemy ships with a single dampener. My arbitrator takes easy 66% off optimal and tracking with a single disruptor. There are few ways to make the painter inline with the other EW (and make it valuable in a gang) : -Increase the best TP to 45% -> it will be in line with best damp and disrupt, giving 70% signature increase mounted on a bellicose at lvl 4 skills, and 77% at lvl 5. (but I already see ravens shooting NPC interceptors with cruise missiles and ease with this) -Increase the bellicose bonus to 25% on TP, it will give 72% bonus to sig on lvl 4 and with lvl 5 skills will be 84%. Maybe some minmatar recon ships will mount some TP, I've never seen any painting anyone in combat. (this option gives value to the ship and doesn't change how TP are used by everyone) Also, the Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron could turn to, as its initials states, PWNAGE really on a bellicose/minmatar recon. After a change in either way, the bellicose would be the useful add-on for missile boats to do better in pvp. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 27/06/2007 17:50:22 Keep in mind that torps also have that nasty low 250 m/s explosion velocity. Any MWDing cruiser will reach the 1500m/s to almost negate torp dmg. I like the idea of a role bonus to TP's for minnie ships however.
Hippo117 Caldari Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:41:00 - [6] I fly a phoenix. I trained my alt to fly rapier's (after bellicose' of course) so that i can onesalvo anything larger than a cruiser. The bellicose proved useful in painting a stationary target with only 2 T1 painters enough to make citadels hit for full damage, so it is hardly useless, you just have to know how and when to use it. Good salvage ship too -------------- Obligulatory 'opinion does not nescessarily represent those of my corp/alliance' stuff here.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:03:00 - [7] Great thats the 1 in situation it IS good in. Now please find one for general PvP that its good in. Compared to the generally more usefull EW platforms (arbitrator, bb and celestis)
Meditril	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:17:00 - [8] I agree with Max. With full skills you should be able to at least double (=+100%) the sig radius of a target otherwise the Belli is not as efficient like the other e-war cruisers. However the other e-war cruisers all reduce the effectivity of the target while TP/Belli has no direct effect on the effectivity of the target. That is a real weakness in general, because it makes TP's hard to use solo. Therefore I would prefer to find an other useful bonus for the Belli which makes solo usage easier.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.06.28 04:49:00 - [9] The bellicose needs more power grid, it has a target painter bonus but lacks the grid to fit enough weapons that would take advantage of it. Also target painters should have an extra effect, signature radius just isn't enough of an incentive.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.28 05:40:00 - [10] I think the real problem is that target painters are kind of crap and there isn't much need for dedicated ships with modules that make it easier to hit small ships such as frigates. It might be cool if the bellicose had five turrets and enough grid to fit five 650mm arties (not 720mms), though.
MotherMoon Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.28 06:56:00 - [11] heheh TP are crap lol yeah keep thinking that dont' forget it also make targets easier to track hit lock speed missle dmg yes it could be boosted for that ship but target painting is allready useful
MotherMoon Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.06.28 06:58:00 - [12] oh I'm also ignoring how useful it is when hitting guns at a pos with dreads what? using painters to decrease the targeting lock time by 60% for a drwad saving it 3 mins that is why they aren't getting boosted
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Defcon One Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 09:56:00 - [13] The bellicose brings less attention to him than the other EW cruisers, why celestis, blackbirds and arbitrators (them to a lesser extent) act like magnets to bullets and missiles? Just because they are damn more dangerous. I've seen no fleet commander worry about a bellicose... Maybe they should, or maybe it doesn't change the fight so much... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:27:00 - [14] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 28/06/2007 10:27:21 Have you actually run the numbers on TP via the tracking formula ? TP's problem are that within web range they are TOTALLY outclassed by webs for making stuff easier to hit. Only with a specialised TP platform do you start to approach the same benefits you get from tracking computer 2. But it still lacks the biggest benefit of TC2 : the extra range. And I have to laught @ the missiles bit since there is only 1 minmatar ship that matters that gets a bonus to missiles. TP are primarily meant to enhance guns, the fact they are not that good @ that means that minmatar are left out in the cold when it comes to EW. Look at the Jita sales volume and weep.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.28 11:09:00 - [15] Quote: Maybe some minmatar recon ships will mount some TP, I've never seen any painting anyone in combat. Dude i always fit 2 TP on my stealth bomber.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.28 12:57:00 - [16] Just increase TP base bonus to 45% as someone said (aftert skilsl go to 45%*1.25 and plus optionof the bellicose bonuses). On par with other e war values. And would become very usefull. Enough so that a bellicose can paint a cruiser and make a BS hit it as easily as if it were another BS. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Coutaux The Shadow Order	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Max Hardcase Only with a specialised TP platform do you start to approach the same benefits you get from tracking computer 2. A tracking computer effects your ship only. A single target painter increases the effectiveness of every ship in your gang when they are shooting at the painted target. ----- I BAF
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.28 16:36:00 - [18] That it does, but its also likely webbed then, which helps more.
Andreya	Posted - 2007.06.30 11:50:00 - [19] Originally by: d026 Quote: Maybe some minmatar recon ships will mount some TP, I've never seen any painting anyone in combat. Dude i always fit 2 TP on my stealth bomber. HAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH ... ... HAHAHAHHAAH... your kidding right? stealth bombers do full damage against frigates!
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.01 09:32:00 - [20] Frigates yes, but not vs interceptors, not that really matters vs interceptors due to explosion velocity, but in theory....... If you want to bait ceptors its 2x damp + web.

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