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Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.26 22:49:00 -
[1]
Hello All,
At the risk of getting eaten alive here on these forums I would like to get opinions on my ships current loadout and if I need to rethink things in regards to my current tank.
This is my setup with stats. The stats are broken down into with/without DCII turned on. I am including my current as of this posting skills relevant to this tank for added info.
Myrmidon Stats
Structure: 5156
Em Damage Resistance: 0% / 60%
Explosive Damage Resistance: 0% / 60%
Kinetic Damage Resistance: 0% / 60%
Thermal Damage Resistance: 0% / 60%
Armor: 5860 Recharge Rate: 1120.00 Seconds
Em Damage Resistance: 76.5% / 80.025 %
Explosive Damage Resistance: 60.9114156954%
/ 66.7747033411 %
Kinetic Damage Resistance: 71.76935578% /
76.003952413 %
Thermal Damage Resistance: 71.76935578% /
76.003952413 %
Fitted Modules:
Shield: 4296
Em Damage Resistance: 43.125% / 50.234375
%
Explosive Damage Resistance: 77.25% /
80.09375 %
Kinetic Damage Resistance: 64.75% / 69.15625
%
Thermal Damage Resistance: 53% / 58.875 %
Capacity: 3093 Recharge Rate 750.00 Seconds
Medium Slots:
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Explosion Dampening Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II
Low Slots:
Energized Reflective Membrane II
Energized Thermic Membrane II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Energized Magnetic Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Skills:
Shield Compensation 2
EM Shield Comp. 3
Explosive Shield Comp. 3
Kinetic Shield Comp. 2
Thermic Shield Comp. 2
Shield Management 2
Shield Opperation 4
EM Armor Comp. 2
Explosive Armor Comp. 2
Kinetic Armor Comp. 2
Thermic Armor Comp. 2
Repair Systems 4
Thanks in advance for any useful info this community can provide.
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Azver Deroven
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.06.26 22:52:00 -
[2]
Looks ok but since when armor has recharged? 
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Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.26 22:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ashala Arcsylver on 26/06/2007 23:02:34
Sorry about the confusion, Updated to reflect that the recharge rate was for the Capacitor not the armor. Also added the fitted rigs on the ship I omitted.
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Luthien Ze
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.06.26 23:32:00 -
[4]
So you are tanking both shields and armor? or is it 2 different setups? ... Dont shield and armor tank at the same time
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Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.26 23:35:00 -
[5]
Actually it is a multi-layered resistance tank. Shields, Armor and Structure.
It is intended for running missions up to around level 3, no PvP, with possibly tag teaming of level 4's with other ships.
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Luthien Ze
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.06.26 23:51:00 -
[6]
Stick with one type. dont try to tank both shield, armor and structure. You will prob get away with it since its only lvl 3 missions - but its not very efficient.
Lets say you choose to armor tank. Keep your lows as it is - maby make the resists more specialized against the npc`es you are fighting.
Use your mids for cap recharge so you can run that med repper longer and also fit a propulsion mod(afterburner f.ex) and maby a webifier if you are using rails/blasters in your highs.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.26 23:54:00 -
[7]
Sooo, no offense, but would you kindly explain in your own words just WHAT is the shield hardening you have on there supposed to acheive on an active armortank in the first place ?
A tiny bit of extra buffer ?
Because that's all you get, nothing more, once the fight starts.
You'd be several times better off with cap rechargers in all those spare mids, and an extra armor repairer in one of the lows, say instead of the magnetic membrane.
And... why one of each type of armor resistance amps, what's the point ?
What are you supposed to be fighting, don't you know your enemy damage types ?
Or is this supposed to be a PvP fit ? Where's the web/scram then ?
Do. Not. Ever. Dual-type-tank.
Please.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:07:00 -
[8]
Oh, you said missions. Haven't noticed THAT post, sorry.
Eww. First, do your homework, find out what type of damage the NPC rats are dealing. If they're dealing all types of damage, or you simply can't find out, THEN you're justified in using an omnitank.
But whatever you had up there isn't an omnitank.
ARMOR tanked "omnitank" Myrmidon:
10mn AB II, 4x Cap Recharger II
DC-II, 2x MAR-II (or MAR-II and SAR-II), 2x EANM-II, 1x Armor Explosive Hardner II
Optional: some Auxiliary Nano Pump I rigs, maybe one Nanobot Accelerator I
Pure recharge passive shieldtanked Myrmidon:
5x LSE-II
6x SPR-II
Optional: some Core Defence Field Purger I rigs
Hardened passive shieldtanked Myrmidon:
3x LSE-II, 2x mission-specific hardners (or even invuls for omnidamage missions)
mix of SPR-II and PDS-II to allow enough cap recharge to run hardners
Optional: some Core Defence Field Purger I rigs
And those fits ? They can run most L4s, not just L3s.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:09:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Akita T
Sooo, no offense, but would you kindly explain in your own words just WHAT is the shield hardening you have on there supposed to acheive on an active armortank in the first place ?
A tiny bit of extra buffer ?
Because that's all you get, nothing more, once the fight starts.
You'd be several times better off with cap rechargers in all those spare mids, and an extra armor repairer in one of the lows, say instead of the magnetic membrane.
And... why one of each type of armor resistance amps, what's the point ?
What are you supposed to be fighting, don't you know your enemy damage types ?
Or is this supposed to be a PvP fit ? Where's the web/scram then ?
Do. Not. Ever. Dual-type-tank.
Please.
Actually I don't use this as an active armor tank. The only active modules on this are the DCII and the MARII. The repper is only used if I drop below 50% armor and then only to get me back up above 75% or so then it gets turned off.
As to why. Experimentation. The Shield's heavy explosion resistance overlaps the Armor's weak explosion resistance. Also the Armor covers the shield weak EM resistance. The Kinetic and Thermal are about the same so they reinforce each other.
This tank is by no means the end all be all mission running tank. I am the first to admit this fact. However I am finding this tank to be remarkably versatile with minimal cap usage required. Most mission I run I rarely if ever use the repairer.
I am running this setup until I get my compensation skills to max to find out first hand just what such a set up is capable of doing. My logic is that instead of relying on a single type of defense I am doing what every military in the world relies upon. Multiple layers.
It is interesting to see the responses thus far regarding this concept and I look forward to reading more of them as time progresses.
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Hellman109
Gallente
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:10:00 -
[10]
EANM2's with armour compensation skills and an AB will run missions way faster then a half half type tank.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2007 00:18:00
Originally by: Ashala Arcsylver
Actually I don't use this as an active armor tank.
The only active modules on this are the DCII and the MARII.
See ? Activetank 
Yeah, I read the rest of what you wrote, and I can understand why you think the full passive shieldtank might do you some good, but... trust me, it doesn't.
For L2s, maybe the easier L3s, but not for anything else.
Tagteaming L4s ? If the NPCs start shooting you instead of the others, you might be in your pod before you can initiate warpoff after you realize what's going on... that is, when you try to start your repairer only to see armor go *poof* anyway, and you're taking structure damage. Add a bit of "targetting induced lag" so common in missions, and you ARE certainly in your pod.
You haven't been trying it against enough incoming damage level yet, that's all.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 27/06/2007 00:18:00
Originally by: Ashala Arcsylver
Actually I don't use this as an active armor tank.
The only active modules on this are the DCII and the MARII.
See ? Activetank
Yeah, I read the rest of what you wrote, and I can understand why you think the full passive shieldtank might do you some good, but... trust me, it doesn't.
For L2s, maybe the easier L3s, but not for anything else.
Tagteaming L4s ? If the NPCs start shooting you instead of the others, you might be in your pod before you can initiate warpoff after you realize what's going on... that is, when you try to start your repairer only to see armor go *poof* anyway, and you're taking structure damage. Add a bit of "targetting induced lag" so common in missions, and you ARE certainly in your pod.
You haven't been trying it against enough incoming damage level yet, that's all.
Oh I agree in regards to the DPS this thing can absorb not being all that great. I can run any level 2 without braking a sweat and a good half of the level 3's though I am not running them ATM. I HAVE run a single , though admittedly easy level 4 tag teamed with a passive drake, Silence the Informant in fact. and was ale to tank the DPS of 3 Battleships until the drake pulled the DPS again.
I am not a player who runs missions exclusively, nor do I care if it takes me all day to complete a single mission. Warping away to lick my wounds is just a fact of life for me. That's why I enjoy playing with loadouts like this.
As to the poster who mentioned the EANMII's. I do believe that this tank actually offers higher resistances to all damages than the now nerfed EANMII tank everyone claims is so great. However, as this thread seemingly points out. I am not prone to knowing all the facts regarding tanking.
One thing to keep in mind regarding this tank. ALL of my capacitor is available for the repairer. I rarely use my guns. I rely on my Tech II drones to handle my damage output almost exclusively and reserve the guns for those pesky little frigates that get by them and get within the 3000 meters my Anode PC's with Antimatter can reach.
This discussion is interesting, and I am learning more regarding the mindset of tankers in eve regrding what is considered "good" and what is consiered " Stupid".
Let's keep this going shall we?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:33:00 -
[13]
See edit on alternate "capless" tank.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ashala Arcsylver
Gallente
Gypsy Rose Mining
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:35:00 -
[14]
Unfortunately I lack the Energy Grid Upgrades skill level to run the SPR II's yet.
I do plan to build a second Myrmidon and do an exclusively passive shield tank for more difficult missions. This isn;t going to be my only ship for missions, not by a long shot.
Again thanks for all the input everyone. And by all means continue posting. This helps more than just me learn things after all.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.27 00:37:00 -
[15]
Use then Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I instead, less skill requirements.
Identical stats to SPR-II, less CPU used. Should find them at roughly the same price as T2s.
Or you could use T1 SPRs, still a good enough tank... better as your original post anyway.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.27 01:52:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I am not a player who runs missions exclusively, nor do I care if it takes me all day to complete a single mission. Warping away to lick my wounds is just a fact of life for me. That's why I enjoy playing with loadouts like this.
That's the thing though, it does not NEED to be a fact of life. You are (deliberately) creating this "fact" with your exceedingly suboptimal fittings.
Afterburner, 4x Cap Rechargers
MARII, DCU, EANM, 1x Each active type specific hardener, and a cap power relay, and with half decent capacitor skills, you can run the whole setup forever while being immune to almost anything in any level 3 (isolated exceptions such as Downing The Slavers 2/2 in the Ring 'o Doom, or Blockade if you spawn say, 3 waves at once).
Medium repairers are cap-hungry beasts. Rather than layering ineffective defenses, try reinforcing strengths. Lots of mid slots means you can pile up cap recharge (hell, can probably even drop out one of the cap rechargers and put in a target painter for helping your drones hit harder).
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Spider Iarus
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Posted - 2007.06.27 05:46:00 -
[17]
I'm not going to lie to you - everyone tries a mixed tank once or twice, hears the old hands yell at them, and tries to make it work.
In missions, plain and simple, it doesn't.
Having any shield mod worth having relies on keeping the shield in the range of 33%, where it gets the most shield regen per second. Simply using up a slot to keep it from melting so quickly, then running an armor tank, is not efficient. It WILL melt, then you've got a completely useless slot that could have been fitted with something else.
Several people have advised you on the matter of a shield tanked myrm, so I'll try the other way around. This character is young so feel free to ignore me if you'd like, but be aware that I did run mission in the same armor tanked Myrmidon from the 16th day of my characters life for another 40 days before I lost my first ship - and that was to a combination of a lowsec mission, a need to take a wicked bathroom break, and a command-ship piloting pirate scanning me down at the right time.
Highs: (kit with what you like for your drone/gun range, I usually used lead or thorium)
250 proto gauss x 5
150 proto gauss x 1
Mids: (I used a webber in place of a charger at first and an extra Tracking comp in place of a charger late in my level 3 running)
10mn AB 2 x1
Cap charger 2 x3
Optical Tracking Comp x1
Lows: (The magstab can come out for an extra hardener, and in retrospect I could've done well with a cap relay instead of the beta reactor control.)
MAR2 x1
Magstab x1
Beta Reactor Control PDS x1
Rat specific active hardners x2
DCUII x1
Rigs: CCC x2, Armor rep amount x1
Drones: 5x Hammerhead 2, 5x Hobgoblin 2, 2x Ogre I
I think the only mission I couldn't run fully afk was the one where the second gate has you jumping in 6k from four different heavy missile turrets - stopped having to jump out for that one, but still needed to pay attention and get some distance built asap.
With everything running constantly it's perfectly stable and tanks fine. The HH2's and guns will melt anything before it gets a chance to dig into your tank anyway.
Don't think I'd run L4's in it, but that's what Domis are for.
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