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Skelator Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:04:00 - [1] This would go a long way in stopping lag if they put one of these in Jita New Eve Node replacement? CCP Please put a few of these in! Phasmatis Velox Equitatus
Edgar Wind	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:13:00 - [2] yes.. shut off tv and reduce lag. /sign
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:30:00 - [3] That wouldnt help much at all.. If a SINGLE unit could had 200 gig of ram, and that much processing power, with the throughput to pipe the data out to the communication nodes..... then sure... It doesnt It doesnt and it wont But one day...
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:33:00 - [4] That wouldnt make one bit of difference. The lag is caused by disk queueing to the database. Eve runs on a ramdrive...it doesnt get any faster than that. _______________________________________________ It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s
Robert Lewis	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:47:00 - [5] Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon...
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Hammer Time.	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< ---------
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Sharupak That wouldnt make one bit of difference. The lag is caused by disk queueing to the database. Eve runs on a ramdrive...it doesnt get any faster than that. what he said ____________ Dark Shikari> If at first you don't succeed, whine about t20.
Lakshmii Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:52:00 - [8] Okay, so how, for the love of god, do we fix that? I love EVE, but I just can't play it very well with all that fracking lag. Love the sinner, hate the sin... something along those lines
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< All Jur Energy Production Belong to Us - GWB9000 (GWB9000) Was design'd to take over the world with no consideration for human losses..... :P
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Lakshmii Okay, so how, for the love of god, do we fix that? I love EVE, but I just can't play it very well with all that fracking lag. Love the sinner, hate the sin... something along those lines CCP can do a big by improving the code but there's only so much they can do. Quite franky there is no computer in the world truely capable of running what EVE is periodically forced to do. "Jita/hugefleets". Saying CCP should work on fixing the server is much easier said then done. ____________ Dark Shikari> If at first you don't succeed, whine about t20.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Lakshmii Okay, so how, for the love of god, do we fix that? I love EVE, but I just can't play it very well with all that fracking lag. Love the sinner, hate the sin... something along those lines This seems to be one of those rare cases when software outstrips the hardware. However, hardware improvements come at a rapid rate. There are also many cases where companies like CCP will have engineering companies test their stuff in the game to prove it out. This game is getting more and more popular as time goes on it seems. Mabee one of those companies will want to take a loss for CCP so that they can put their name in the buisness newspapers and have their stock prices skyrocket. Probably not a donation, but sell the hardware at an affordable price. _______________________________________________ It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.06.27 01:05:00 - [12] Originally by: DubanFP CCP can help by improving the code but there's only so much they can do to streamline the process. Quite franky there is no computer in the world truely capable of running what EVE is periodically forced to do. "Jita/hugefleets". Saying CCP should work on fixing the server is much easier said then done. By the looks of it, systems can only have 1 node, so until they are able to process a single system on more than one node, then it'll suck :/ I guess we'll see things like stations get seperated from the space area first? then all services get seperate? (shrug).... I bet they have several ideas in testing, and more on the planning boards ;).. after all, they cant just leave it the way it is and hope people will stop coming to hubs.. as the playerbase grows then hubs will grow... I would bet they are working on a fix, but if a dev post and says (no we arent working on a fix yet) then it's time to start looking for another game :/.....
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.06.27 01:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/06/2007 01:43:58 Nothing annoys me more then people who have little or no clue about how EvE works or in fact any significant amount of clue about cluster programming giving advice how to solve the lag problem. Edit: good luck finding a lagless MMO.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.06.27 01:51:00 - [14] First, EVE's problems aren't computational in nature. It's easy to get more CPU. I/O is the big killer, and managing massively parallel operations is another one. With RAMSAN solid-state disks, they've pushed that envelope as far as it can reasonably go, I expect. Reducing I/O requirements is where the wins are. I don't know what needs to happen there, but I expect CCP has some ideas. SEARCh- we find sites for you!
WhitePhantom Gallente Edenists	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Skelator This would go a long way in stopping lag if they put one of these in Jita New Eve Node replacement? CCP Please put a few of these in! Bandwidth is finite...
Skelator Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 07:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Skelator on 27/06/2007 07:40:43 Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/06/2007 01:43:58 Nothing annoys me more then people who have little or no clue about how EvE works or in fact any significant amount of clue about cluster programming giving advice how to solve the lag problem. Edit: good luck finding a lagless MMO. Geez lighten up! No need to be a so Serious Einstein. I actually wanted to spread the word about the new system capabilities and tagged on the eve cluster comment. Go back to your hole now like a good M$ Lapdog (jking) Seriously though.. You have to admit this system is impressive! P.S. I manage a Data center for a Fortune 500 company Phasmatis Velox Equitatus
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.06.27 08:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Lakshmii Okay, so how, for the love of god, do we fix that? Use a DISTRIBUTED database (there are good X.500 based ones out there) instead of one single-box M$ SQL piece of sh. Increasing the capacity (in tps) on one of these is simply a matter of adding a few more (cheap) boxes.... The technology chosen is quite simply wrong for the current scale of EVE. It more resembles that of the banking sector where it should more resemble the tech used in the telecoms sector. Large amounts of dataqueries which all require low responsetimes are not suitable for ANY single-platform SQL databases.... Correcting it would be quite a large undertaking though..... Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Glengrant Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 08:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Lakshmii Okay, so how, for the love of god, do we fix that? I love EVE, but I just can't play it very well with all that fracking lag. Don't dwell in Jita (or a few of the other hubs). Think twice before joining a fleet blob action. If you're in an area where u share the node with a big fleet blob - bad luck. I rarely have noticable lag. The last time I remember being affected by that is in Deltole (popular complex there - a zillion wrecks from rats). Eve is big and you might be surprised about the number of people who are not much affected by lag - they just don't usualy post messages. It is not a constant and universal problem. Sometimes the lag is not caused by the Eve cluster at all, but by your computer or particular route through the internet. (Has that south-east asian undersea cable been repaired?) YMMV
Decimo Amarr DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Cypherous Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< The Matrix has you.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:34:00 - [20] sigh alot of you people dont even have a ******* clue what they are saying.. sigh The lag gets caused at +- 4 (major) points. 1) The eve NETWORK (notice, not cluster!) works a bit like, you connect to 1 (or more) proxy servers, which link you to the server of the solar system you are in. When there are alot of people, the network throughput and calculations these systems have to perform can be to much. -> Lag 1.1) The fact eve runs on a network rather then a cluster, makes it so that specific computers are responcible for specific solarsystems. So, in case the capacity of a solar system exeeds the capacity of a system? -> Lag. In a clustered environment, you have a master server distrubiting the computer instructions to the nodes. In such a way that the load gets automatically balanced. Capacity can only get exeeded if all nodes exeed their capacity. Easely solved by adding a couple new nodes. 2) Eve is an object oriented game, using an relational database for that has a couple bottlenecks. The fact they use a ramsam for their database is an OK idea, however its not the solution. 2.1) Relational databases have a search time, if we have to search on anything except an index; the search time can be log(n) the amount of items in the table or even higher depending on the datatype. 2.2) The translation of relational data into python objects, and the other way arround. Is another delay on the nodes. 2.3) I'm unsure how the database architecture is exactly setten up, i do however know that no vertical normalising happens in the database. Even in an object database, you want to use multiple systems to handle your requests. A database should NEVER be a bottleneck for data transfer, and i actually believe that for the eve network it is quite a big one. Seeing that even the smaller regions/systems get lagged out insanely when 40k people are logged in. -> Lag 3) When i read what devs say on these forums, i am quite (99.9999% chance) sure that there are "some" MAJOR inconsistencies in the software model of both the eve server and the eve client, and that those 2 models might not be completely aligned. -> Lag If a software model is not written carefully and correctly, you have to use brute force (read, alot of cpu power) to solve the problems. Often resulting in a DIRTY solution by the programmer and resulting in the implementation not being aligned with the model, rather then solving the problem in the model. Also bugs in a model often result in bugs in code, would explain the sheer ammount of bugs and memory leaks. Adding new fancy toys (hardware) and stuff like that does not solve anything if you dont have a cluster, a decent database, and a decent software model. As for a solution? Unsure, solving the cluster can be possible without to much problems. Solving the database can be possible i guess, but its quite a pain to translate all the stuff. But if there are big problems in the model, all you can do is throw away all the data involved and start again from scratch. Gutsani's view on the problem (if this document gets used to solve the problem of lag, i request a **load of euro's, i'm still the author after all) ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!**
Rafein	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:38:00 - [21] Originally by: DeODokktor By the looks of it, systems can only have 1 node, so until they are able to process a single system on more than one node, then it'll suck :/ Really, having systems run on more than one node would not solve the problem. You would have more resources available, yes, but you would also have more date being moved, now not just from players to node and back, but from node to node as well. It would also cause some unfortunate results, peopl on different nodes dying, not even knwing they are targetted, because by the time their node told them they were being shot at, they had already been shot by the enemy fleet a few times.
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Rafein Originally by: DeODokktor By the looks of it, systems can only have 1 node, so until they are able to process a single system on more than one node, then it'll suck :/ Really, having systems run on more than one node would not solve the problem. You would have more resources available, yes, but you would also have more date being moved, now not just from players to node and back, but from node to node as well. It would also cause some unfortunate results, peopl on different nodes dying, not even knwing they are targetted, because by the time their node told them they were being shot at, they had already been shot by the enemy fleet a few times. lol, clueless. please read into how a cluster exactly works. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< Hey, you're already playing a game about being in a fluid-filled capsule stuck full of tubes and wires all the time. Tired of Waiting? Use Empire Research
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:06:00 - [24] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 27/06/2007 10:06:49 At the end of the day, the equipment that eve needs to handle 1000 vs 1000 man battles probebly exists. However it probebly costs more than the entire turnover of CCP since they began. For now, you can do your bit by minimising all details before a battle, remove all blinks from all chat windows/mail etc etc. Dont overload the server with a 50 coloum overview, just keep it to minimum so the server has less to update -- Billion Isk Mission
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:38:00 - [25] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/06/2007 10:39:09 Originally by: Gutsani 1.1) The fact eve runs on a network rather then a cluster, makes it so that specific computers are responcible for specific solarsystems. So, in case the capacity of a solar system exeeds the capacity of a system? -> Lag. In a clustered environment, you have a master server distrubiting the computer instructions to the nodes. In such a way that the load gets automatically balanced. Capacity can only get exeeded if all nodes exeed their capacity. Easely solved by adding a couple new nodes. Er, no. You, i'm afraid, have no idea how clusters work, and I get this itchy feeling of "must beat high-level programmer up", which I tend to get around people who grossly ignore the fact they're running software on computers. Which incidentally occurs a lot around cluster and grid programmers. "Distributing the computer instructions to the nodes"? Oook. Anyway, in any cluster-based environment where you want real-time, you want to minimize moving data around as much as possible. If data is centralised, of course, then moving data is inevitable, but you really want to move it as rarely as possible. The latency of moving something from my memory (under load conditions) to the memory of computer X which is hopefully nearby (but also under load conditions), and doing that a number of times is a huge no-no for any real-time application. Not to mention that shooting (interacting between player A and player B) between two players on different computers would require more information being shuttled around. Information being shuttled around is very costly, regarding time (and even processing required, really) Perfect automatic (automagical) load balancing is also never going to happen in a cluster/network architecture, unless you're prepared to be horribly inefficent. I still prefer doing weighted round-robin for my real-time cluster software, since it both statistically (and realistically) works and is fast enough, and I only really distribute processing requests around, not 'computer instructions' to the nodes.
Trak Cranker Serenity Inc	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:49:00 - [26] What I don't understand is why CCP do not eliminate all the obvious elements in the interface that create database requests that are not needed. I wonder how many times each day people request market information on an item, only becuase they wanted to see the information on the item. Or load misc. map information, because they want to change their autopilot route/settings. There is tons of examples of interface actions that, afaict, generate a request for a large amount of data that the user was not after at the time. While it probably cannot save Jita, something tells me that the gains on those things, would far outstrip the cost of changes to the interface.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< Don't worry, they'll lag out trying to run the Matrix with that many users... ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Trak Cranker What I don't understand is why CCP do not eliminate all the obvious elements in the interface that create database requests that are not needed. I wonder how many times each day people request market information on an item, only becuase they wanted to see the information on the item. Or load misc. map information, because they want to change their autopilot route/settings. There is tons of examples of interface actions that, afaict, generate a request for a large amount of data that the user was not after at the time. While it probably cannot save Jita, something tells me that the gains on those things, would far outstrip the cost of changes to the interface. Yes, one of the annoying things in the market interface is loading of "best" prices of all the items in group by default. Say, armour plates. I click on it, it loads all the info on the best prices in station of all the plates, while I really am just opening plates to get info about 200mm RT plate. It's wasteful, and the few moments of lag (stutter) are annoying. Although, if the damn interface and the network handling were decoupled (I believe this is the problem here), it would seem much smoother. Also, client-side overview stutter is annoying, same as above. I'm quite sure that both are due to failing to properly decouple talking to server and drawing the interface, what creates a couple of seconds (or more) of unnecessary stutter or, as you'll call it, lag. Making it seem smoother would shut up a lot of whiners ;)
CaptianBlack Minmatar Morbix Research	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:01:00 - [29] what lag!!.. think i've had 1-2 lag spikes since patch.. but then i don't play in Jita or even visit busy places during peak times.. [URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]
Snake Jankins Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:06:00 - [30] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 27/06/2007 11:07:22 Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Sharupak That wouldnt make one bit of difference. The lag is caused by disk queueing to the database. Eve runs on a ramdrive...it doesnt get any faster than that. what he said The ramsans are for the database afaik, so they only make a difference with database caused lag. But lag is not only caused by the database e.g. Jita needs to run on one of the most powerful nodes on it's own and it seems still not to be enough sometimes. Or nodes that go down in 0.0 blobs. The reason is probably lack of CPU power or lack of node ram there. And yes, besides that there is also poor client performance, which brings blob-fights to a halt and for some like me it's even more important than the occasional 'An attempt to activate this module is underway...' message, which comes from server lag. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< But what if they didn't want global domination? Assuming a machine had perfect AI then im sure it would see global domination and mass pew pew as illogical! __ "You are not entirely safeà but I can safely say that EVE is going to hurt you until you leave or learn. The world will persist without you." -Tovarishch
Snake Jankins Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:27:00 - [32] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 27/06/2007 11:26:58 Edited by: Snake Jankins on 27/06/2007 11:26:39 Originally by: Sales Merchant Originally by: Cypherous Originally by: Robert Lewis Went from 280 teraflops to 3 petaflops in 8 months? The AI to make humanity obsolete is coming soon... Oh noes i don't want to be used as a bettery to power evil machines hell bent on global domination >.< But what if they didn't want global domination? Assuming a machine had perfect AI then im sure it would see global domination and mass pew pew as illogical! Our attitudes/goals/ethical views that you describe are a direct result of some evolutionary processes. We didn't really have a choice there. The AI that you describe would need to find or define those things first, if no human 'implants' it. It needs some motivation, otherwise everything is pointless. Why should it care about the earth blowing up or not, if it doesn't have something like the instinct of self preservation that we developed during evolution ? Sorry, for being of topic, but I like to think about such stuff. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Glengrant Think twice before joining a fleet blob action. If you're in an area where u share the node with a big fleet blob - bad luck. Then 80% of the fleet fights I've ever been in were struck with "bad luck", OR ... maybe this game just can't handle it. - Recruitment open again-
Arcadia1701E Gallente	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Sharupak That wouldnt make one bit of difference. The lag is caused by disk queueing to the database. Eve runs on a ramdrive...it doesnt get any faster than that. Wrong, devs said they eliminated the que when they put the ramsans in. Its more the SOL servers cant handle things.
Astraia Mai	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:49:00 - [35] I just played for 3 days now, coming from wow. And to be honest, this game is really fun, and a game that seems to be able to hold my interest for a long long time.... if it wasnt for the lag. CAuse it is a really anoying issue. Coming from a 98% lagless game, its just hard to adjust to these lagspikes. I really hope it gets fixed soon, cause its a im-having-fun-in-new-game killer :(
VaderDSL Caldari Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Trak Cranker What I don't understand is why CCP do not eliminate all the obvious elements in the interface that create database requests that are not needed. I wonder how many times each day people request market information on an item, only becuase they wanted to see the information on the item. Or load misc. map information, because they want to change their autopilot route/settings. There is tons of examples of interface actions that, afaict, generate a request for a large amount of data that the user was not after at the time. While it probably cannot save Jita, something tells me that the gains on those things, would far outstrip the cost of changes to the interface. Yes, one of the annoying things in the market interface is loading of "best" prices of all the items in group by default. Say, armour plates. I click on it, it loads all the info on the best prices in station of all the plates, while I really am just opening plates to get info about 200mm RT plate. It's wasteful, and the few moments of lag (stutter) are annoying. Although, if the damn interface and the network handling were decoupled (I believe this is the problem here), it would seem much smoother. Also, client-side overview stutter is annoying, same as above. I'm quite sure that both are due to failing to properly decouple talking to server and drawing the interface, what creates a couple of seconds (or more) of unnecessary stutter or, as you'll call it, lag. Making it seem smoother would shut up a lot of whiners ;) Couldn't there be a small neocom button, called maybe Galactic Database, where actually there is a stored file on the hard drive that is downloaded (unsure of the size it would be though, i know jack about the technical side to eve) and if you want to check the item description etc. it loads the data from there rather than from the market?
Cpt Branko Guardian Heroes	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/06/2007 12:15:44 Originally by: Astraia Mai I just played for 3 days now, coming from wow. And to be honest, this game is really fun, and a game that seems to be able to hold my interest for a long long time.... if it wasnt for the lag. CAuse it is a really anoying issue. Coming from a 98% lagless game, its just hard to adjust to these lagspikes. I really hope it gets fixed soon, cause its a im-having-fun-in-new-game killer :( (a) Get out of systems with 200+ people in them (b) Errr, 98% lagless game? You mean, lagless except the really popular trade/noob areas, or any more massive fight? ;P Face it, no MMO is ever going to be lagless for all the clients. Improving it all the time is of course sensible and necessary, but you can't expect miracles. Some client adjustions would be nice to improve client 'stutter' when it has to wait for network data. And streamlining the UI to make as little as possible of unecessary client->server requests. Like, the market, the overview, etc...
Jaden Haryl	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/06/2007 12:15:44 Originally by: Astraia Mai I just played for 3 days now, coming from wow. And to be honest, this game is really fun, and a game that seems to be able to hold my interest for a long long time.... if it wasnt for the lag. CAuse it is a really anoying issue. Coming from a 98% lagless game, its just hard to adjust to these lagspikes. I really hope it gets fixed soon, cause its a im-having-fun-in-new-game killer :( (a) Get out of systems with 200+ people in them (b) Errr, 98% lagless game? You mean, lagless except the really popular trade/noob areas, or any more massive fight? ;P Face it, no MMO is ever going to be lagless for all the clients. Improving it all the time is of course sensible and necessary, but you can't expect miracles. Some client adjustions would be nice to improve client 'stutter' when it has to wait for network data. And streamlining the UI to make as little as possible of unecessary client->server requests. Like, the market, the overview, etc... I play both Eve and Wow, and no Wow rarely lags even in the most populated areas sorry but its true, at one time this may not have been the case, but Wow is by far the least laggy and has the least bugs of any MMO I have ever played by far. But to be far a Wow server has around 5k players on at one time vs Eve. The Wow client is also very multithreaded, it's easy to notice when porting long distances, unlike Eve which halts while loading data off your harddrive the Wow client does this in a separate thread where you only see say a shadow where a player would be while their graphics are loaded. You can also see this if the server connection is lost, sometimes the client won't recognize the disconnect for some time yet you can still walk around in the game without impairment only the world state is not updated, the client actually isn't bothered by a lack of server data. Honestly everyone here is speculating, does anyone here honestly know the true server architecture of Eve? How many SQL server does it have? One for world state, one per node for world state? Is the lag caused by CPU or IO exhaustion? There are some things we do know based on Dev info: 1. Eve uses one or more MS SQL servers with ramsans for persistent storage. 2. Lag seems to be localized to the node that heavy use is occurring on. 3. Our clients connect to some sort of proxy that then connects to the main cluster. 4. Each system is served by at most one node in the cluster, some systems all share a node, no single system runs on more than one node. Things we don't know: 1. What do the nodes do? Are they simple message routers for a system, does the AI for npc's of that system run on the node, does the node validate client requests or does the proxy? 2. What are the SQL server used for? Are they only used for less granular world state like the Market or what items are in your hangar, or is the DB updated for your ships position every time it updates in the node(I hope not)? 3. What are the resource bottle necks causing the lag? Client CPU/Ram/Disk, Proxy CPU/Ram/Disk, Node CPU/Ram/Disk, SQL CPU/Ram/Disk? There are operations that are very parallizable and ones that are not. Client request validation and NPC AI is something off the top of my head that should be nearly infinitely parallizable given enough hardware, world state would not be. That is, I really hope the system nodes which track world state and send updates to the clients are also not responsible for say the NPC AI in that system, that should be a separate cluster that connects to the system just as a player would, but maybe this how it working already does anyone know?
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.06.27 18:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Astraia Mai I just played for 3 days now, coming from wow. And to be honest, this game is really fun, and a game that seems to be able to hold my interest for a long long time.... if it wasnt for the lag. CAuse it is a really anoying issue. Coming from a 98% lagless game, its just hard to adjust to these lagspikes. I really hope it gets fixed soon, cause its a im-having-fun-in-new-game killer :( you are one of the lucky few, WoW is very very laggy for some.

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