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[Guide] Client side lag reduction for large battles

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Chucky Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.06.28 14:21:00 - [31] Originally by: Dave White Alt+F4 solves all lag. Ctrl Q works better ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Originally by: Kagura Nikon Turnign off depth buffer is nonsense. Its a IN HARDWARE feature. That adds zero cost to the rendering proccesson modern cards. In fact reduces the cost sicne modern cards can discard the pixel form the pipeloine if they fail the deept test soon enough. EVE is 100% software rendered. Until they come out with the new gfx engine, it will make an effect on your FPS. You cannot raster by software. its impossible on current cards. Eve uses hardware to render. Deept buffer also is never ever doable in software, even a Core 2 duo would get < 5 fps with nothing but its own ship in screen. If you dont use deep buffer, the engien must sort render on back to frotn order. That increases CPU load a lot. I suggest to try the different settings and watch then the fps. But not everything is about fps. The initial grid loading, if that can be made faster something is gained also. Also if one setting reduces the lag then keep it regardless if it _should_ work or not - it obviously does then well here deactivating deep buffer reduces FPS by 40% If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Olavus	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:22:00 - [33] I have also had problems when the depth buffer is off. As a note, setting a higher priority for the EVE process (exefile.exe) can also help. This is done from the task manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del), processes tab, right-click exefile.exe, set priority -> high.
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.28 16:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Olavus I have also had problems when the depth buffer is off. As a note, setting a higher priority for the EVE process (exefile.exe) can also help. This is done from the task manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del), processes tab, right-click exefile.exe, set priority -> high. \ Dont do this. Its a bad idea. Especially because that means you will have to do a hard reboot if eve ever locks up. Which will delay you getting back into the game in a critical situation. You are much better off closing unneeded background applications from even running in the first place, it will give you the same effect as priority-> high but with the added benifit that you are more likely to recover from eve freezing. #1 rule on increasing performance in any game. Shut down every damn unneeded icon in your taskbar. Close all programs that you are not using, including internet explorer (IE, and Firefox etc love eating huge chunks of your ram). Check for and remove any spyware/viruses/malware from your machine. Shut off any downloads, especially bittorrent during play.
Indiano Arko Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.28 17:39:00 - [35] You also can put the EVE cache on RAM disk. But anyways everything said wont make the miracle as the lag for the most part is on the server side.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.28 18:49:00 - [36] Originally by: Kagura Nikon well here deactivating deep buffer reduces FPS by 40% Thats.... quite incredible. There is nothing like that effect (in either direction) when disabled here, or clearly wouldn't have recommended it.
Rock Lobster Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.06.28 19:57:00 - [37] Just ran some tests, identical EVE install on two machines. Machine 1 (my custom build from 18 months ago): Pentium D 945 (2x3.4GHZ), 2GB PC5300 RAM, 256MB 7600GT video on nForce4-SLI board Machine 2 (housemate's ú279 Dell Dimension E521): AMD X2-5000+ (2x2.6GHZ), 2GB PC5300 RAM, 128MB X1300Pro video on nForce Dell board The Dell runs EVE at pretty much the same speed framerate-wise, is much smoother, and uses 1/3 the processor load (the Pentium runs at 99% CPU on one core running EVE, the AMD 33% CPU on one core running the same EVE install in the same place. So, how to beat lag, use AMD.
Indiano Arko Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.28 20:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Rock Lobster Just ran some tests, identical EVE install on two machines. Machine 1 (my custom build from 18 months ago): Pentium D 945 (2x3.4GHZ), 2GB PC5300 RAM, 256MB 7600GT video on nForce4-SLI board Machine 2 (housemate's ú279 Dell Dimension E521): AMD X2-5000+ (2x2.6GHZ), 2GB PC5300 RAM, 128MB X1300Pro video on nForce Dell board The Dell runs EVE at pretty much the same speed framerate-wise, is much smoother, and uses 1/3 the processor load (the Pentium runs at 99% CPU on one core running EVE, the AMD 33% CPU on one core running the same EVE install in the same place. So, how to beat lag, use AMD. It's not about AMD. Most likely the second machine have some outdated / laggy drivers. Maybe heavily fragmented HDD on top of that... Also using 100% of available CPU resources is normal for EVE and it doesn't mean anything. Run one account CPU used for 100%, EVE process ~99, run second account - same CPU load, each EVE process takes about 50%, run 3rd account - it will turn into 33 +- and all three accounts will run smoothely (unless of course its a fleet engagement).
Indiano Arko Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.28 20:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Morris Falter Originally by: Kagura Nikon well here deactivating deep buffer reduces FPS by 40% Thats.... quite incredible. There is nothing like that effect (in either direction) when disabled here, or clearly wouldn't have recommended it. Technically you can't turn off the depth buffer. Depth buffer is used to sort the visible objects by depth (distance to camera), when objects are sorted the graphical card can actually render the scene, by showing only visible parts of visible objects and not rendering the invisible parts. There are few depth buffer algorithms. The most common is Z-buffer and it's modification W-buffer. I don't really know what is meant by "Depth buffer: no buffer" because it is simply a nonsense - you can't render the scene without using the depth buffer. As someone already mentioned in this topic the attempt to use a CPU instead of GPU to execute the Z-buffer algorithm would result in dramatical performance drop even on most powerful CPUs.
Sharken 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.28 22:26:00 - [40] Edited by: Sharken on 28/06/2007 22:25:55 ok.. reading the main post that means : : turning off everything that gives me "eye" candy" in this game......er,, CCP ?? Hello ??? Erm... FIX Stuff ftw ??? c¦mon we¦re paying for this game..... Is it really THAT impossible to make this game work like it should ?

Illyria Ambri Caldari RennTech	Posted - 2007.06.28 22:33:00 - [41] Sounds to me.. the only way to play w/o lag is not to bother logging in. or fighting anyone. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.28 22:56:00 - [42] Edited by: AegriSomnia on 28/06/2007 22:55:57 Originally by: Laah T'Sin great thread. good idea to post this here! but i have a quick question: what do you mean by "TURN OFF BACKGROUND COLORS FOR SHIP ICONS"? Do you mean the little rectangle thats filled with red for ppl that are at war or do you mean something else? Never hear this tip before sofar. Its not the little square at the lower right of the ship box [ ] that has a +, -, or a star in it. There is a setting that makes the ENTIRE ship box [ ] the color of the pilots standing. Kinda like when a ship is blinky red? If you have someone set to blue, the ship box [ ] will be filled with blue. Default is to have it turned off, so if you've never seen it, dont bother going looking for it. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Dave White Alt+F4 solves all lag. Whats so magic about a sensor booster? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:02:00 - [44] i thought this stuff were alliance secrets.. who leaked? --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Morris Falter Originally by: Kagura Nikon well here deactivating deep buffer reduces FPS by 40% Thats.... quite incredible. There is nothing like that effect (in either direction) when disabled here, or clearly wouldn't have recommended it. I find the opposite true also on my laptop, de-activating it caused a noticeable increase in playability. Machine is an older Tablet PC running Tablet edition XP, NVidia 6100 128meg card. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Indiano Arko Depth buffer is used to sort the visible objects by depth (distance to camera), when objects are sorted the graphical card can actually render the scene, by showing only visible parts of visible objects and not rendering the invisible parts. There are few depth buffer algorithms. The most common is Z-buffer and it's modification W-buffer. I don't really know what is meant by "Depth buffer: no buffer" because it is simply a nonsense - you can't render the scene without using the depth buffer. As someone already mentioned in this topic the attempt to use a CPU instead of GPU to execute the Z-buffer algorithm would result in dramatical performance drop even on most powerful CPUs. While technically you are correct, it does make a rather large difference to the positive on some machines, like my Tablet PC. My desktop machine didn't seem to care one way or the other. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Demoneque Intentions eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.29 04:34:00 - [47] Run the client in fullscreen mode and ensure that all your background garbage is closed. You can spam the forums about your uber win or how your opponent cheated on the EVE-O forums AFTER the fight actually takes place. The game runs much, much better when in fullscreen as opposed to emulating everything in a window.
Na'Kunni Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.06.29 04:39:00 - [48] Originally by: Morris Falter Edited by: Morris Falter on 28/06/2007 14:03:03 Edited by: Morris Falter on 28/06/2007 11:56:34 Copied from my post in one of the lag threads atm, just to avoid it getting lost in the noise. This is as much as I (and others who have contributed, thanks) know about reducing client-side lag (graphical): -- 1. Reduce Colour depth to as low as it can get. 2. Turn off dithering 3. Turn off depth buffer 4. Turn off sounds 5. Turn off effects (ctrl+alt+shift+e) 6. Turn off turret effects (ctrl+alt+shift+t) 7. Minimize or close any irrelevant chat windows (preferably close) 8. Make any remaining windows transparent (the little circle on the top right) 9. If you are jumping into a system, minimize overview until you have loaded (hopefully will take less than 30s... ^^) and ZOOM OUT :D 10. Reduce resolution to the minimum you're comfortable with and run fullscreen. (I generally just leave it at 1280x1024, with these other things it seems to be ok..) 11. Optimise overview settings - there's a whole book you could write about this, but basic settings should be only have stuff you actually want to shoot on it. Rest is noise + lag inducing. Also remove columns that you dont need (ty Aleatory). 12. Also remove blinks from wallets, mail everything including local chat window. (ty Lord W) 13. TURN OFF BACKGROUND COLORS FOR SHIP ICONS. This is an absolute must. Also, minimize usage of the standings icons themselves. Have them only turned on for hostiles, or just turn them off completely. (I don't totally agree with this one, but other people have mentioned it, so including it here - thanks Chris, Mo) 14. Point camera away from ship blob, remove the "damage message", Logging and make all windows opaque (remove all transparency), and defrag hdd (ty Simon Illian) 15. If you are flying a drone ship, and you lag after launching drones (carriers and up included) left clicking on something in space will usually unlag you (ty Farjungle) 16. Turn off "Trails" as well - just remembered this one ;) -- Apart from this, not sure what else can be done - I'm assuming you're all not running stuff like MSN in the background - thats for afterwards shurely (hoho) - or leaving like.. .net or photoshop open, or whatever. And for the record - the really bad lag seems to be when caps are involved, so something is definitely up there. If you want to see your FPS its ctrl+f - but watch out, as the monitor has a FPS hit itself, so don't leave it running.. If I've missed anything, please add it below, and I'll update this list with good suggestions. Basically make the game as ****ty as possible, so it can play... This game sux in the lag department.. But rules overall
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.06.29 05:09:00 - [49] Originally by: Demoneque Intentions Run the client in fullscreen mode and ensure that all your background garbage is closed. You can spam the forums about your uber win or how your opponent cheated on the EVE-O forums AFTER the fight actually takes place. The game runs much, much better when in fullscreen as opposed to emulating everything in a window. This runs counter to everything I have ever heard. Can someone else comment on this?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.29 05:29:00 - [50] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Demoneque Intentions Run the client in fullscreen mode and ensure that all your background garbage is closed. You can spam the forums about your uber win or how your opponent cheated on the EVE-O forums AFTER the fight actually takes place. The game runs much, much better when in fullscreen as opposed to emulating everything in a window. This runs counter to everything I have ever heard. Can someone else comment on this? I've found my systems more stable running in windowed mode. No appearant difference in framerates but not crashing is important <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.

Tahmee Bhakeur	Posted - 2007.06.29 06:36:00 - [51] So when does CCP release the Text only version of EVE for Fleet Combat? Almost seems like we should only have 256-colors, 100 polygon maximum per model, and no skins. Basically make EVE look like MechWarrior by Activision. How about just adapting "MegaMek" to play out large-scale fleet combat?
ArkulA Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Kharadran Sullath Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 28/06/2007 13:31:43 CCP better work some magic with the new graph engine when it arrives. Or heads will roll and accounts will be canceled. Such is the prophecy. Exact, i know all this things to reduce lag for a long time, but since some months the lag is awful, more and more. And pay few account to see empty screen during 45 min ... it's little expensive... [gold]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])[/gol
Roger Arko Geddonites	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Demoneque Intentions Run the client in fullscreen mode and ensure that all your background garbage is closed. You can spam the forums about your uber win or how your opponent cheated on the EVE-O forums AFTER the fight actually takes place. The game runs much, much better when in fullscreen as opposed to emulating everything in a window. Is it a joke? It don't have to "emulate" anything in Window mode. The difference between fullscreen mode and window mode is somewhere between 0 and 2 fps.
Roger Arko Geddonites	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Tahmee Bhakeur So when does CCP release the Text only version of EVE for Fleet Combat? Almost seems like we should only have 256-colors, 100 polygon maximum per model, and no skins. Basically make EVE look like MechWarrior by Activision. How about just adapting "MegaMek" to play out large-scale fleet combat? Is it sarcasm? The lag during big fleet engagements is for 99% on server side and have nothing to do with your client render engine.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:33:00 - [55] - delete Chatlog and Gamelog folders (no new ones will be created until EVE is restarted) - turn off combat messages this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Roger Arko Originally by: Tahmee Bhakeur So when does CCP release the Text only version of EVE for Fleet Combat? Almost seems like we should only have 256-colors, 100 polygon maximum per model, and no skins. Basically make EVE look like MechWarrior by Activision. How about just adapting "MegaMek" to play out large-scale fleet combat? Is it sarcasm? The lag during big fleet engagements is for 99% on server side and have nothing to do with your client render engine. Untrue. When your FPS drops below 1-2 frames, even if the server is giving you data at a decent rate, the game will still be unplayable. However, the wider point is - its a combination of both things (duh). If you can sort out your client issues, then any server-lag is obvious.. thats what this guide is trying to get at. If you have no activation on modules, no loading, but fps is ok, then clearly the problem is server end. If the grid is loaded and the business is all going off (so to speak) but you have crap fps, then the guide is for you. Will read the other suggestions that people have posted when finished at work. If its helped some people already, then I'm satisfied - hope the (good-quality) information keeps coming. I did make a forum-petition a while ago asking for a reduced graphical complexity (low-graphics) mode for large battles, but never had a ccp response, despite a lot of positive responses.. understandable I guess - but it is something that comes up time and time again..
Roger Arko Geddonites	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Morris Falter Originally by: Roger Arko Originally by: Tahmee Bhakeur So when does CCP release the Text only version of EVE for Fleet Combat? Almost seems like we should only have 256-colors, 100 polygon maximum per model, and no skins. Basically make EVE look like MechWarrior by Activision. How about just adapting "MegaMek" to play out large-scale fleet combat? Is it sarcasm? The lag during big fleet engagements is for 99% on server side and have nothing to do with your client render engine. Untrue. When your FPS drops below 1-2 frames, even if the server is giving you data at a decent rate, the game will still be unplayable. Agree, but it is not what is considered the lag, but rather a low performance which can be annoying but still managable unlike the server side caused lag which is the main source of problems during the fleet engagements. My point was that the so called "Text version of EVE for fleet battles" won't solve anything, as the "Text engine" will be much much slower than the Direct3D one. The existing engine can do at least some part of the job using GPU, but for text based client you will have to do 99% of all calculations on your CPU. Yes, EVE client definitely could be improved a lot. I suppose it doesn't use even half of the functions the videocards nowadays can offer. Probably would be easier to write EVE 2, then to rewrite the code of the existing EVE. Anyways, I'd like to see CCP focusing on improvement of server-side, as server is a main source of troubles.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:40:00 - [58] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 29/06/2007 11:39:15 I am sure there are some things that should be turned off since the gain is not enough to warrent the lag it causes. But overall, I think buying better client hardware is the best solution :p I have no client lag, and try to put everything to max, but I must confess that I havent been in large scale fleet warfare yet. Still, it is a fact that better client hardware will solve most of these issues. It has been like that in WoW, SWG, DAoC and any other game I played to date. To give an example, in DAoC we had fights of 150 vs 150 vs 150. Now with the 1st computer I had played DAoC with, I had alot of lag in such fights. But once I bought my new computer with alot better GFX card and more RAM, I could run on medium high settings, enjoy the grafics while fighting with and against hundreds of people and I had hardly any client lag. Just to say, the computers are alot more powerfull now then when EvE came out. Take a Dual Core CPU, 4GB RAM ( vista required ), raptor HD, Geforce 8800GTS 320MB and see the difference with your single core, 1GB RAM, IDE HD, geforece 6600GT 128MB. But yah I guess the presented options are good for low budget. Also maintaining your computer is important, do not let loads of programs run at startup, defrag once in a while ( altho this is less usefull with a good dual raptor raid system ), dont go to **** sites ( spyware etc ), and so on :p Greets CyberGh0st aka Cyberwiz aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Retired @ Bors DAoC / Atlantic UO / Sunstrider WoW / Valcyn SWG / Snowbourn LOTRO / Planetside / Entropia / Lineage / Guildwars
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:02:00 - [59] Originally by: CyberGh0st Edited by: CyberGh0st on 29/06/2007 11:51:05 Edited by: CyberGh0st on 29/06/2007 11:39:15 I am sure there are some things that should be turned off since the gain is not enough to warrent the lag it causes. But overall, I think buying better client hardware is the best solution :p I have no client lag, and try to put everything to max, but I must confess that I havent been in large scale fleet warfare yet. Still, it is a fact that better client hardware will solve most of these issues. It has been like that in WoW, SWG, DAoC and any other game I played to date. To give an example, in DAoC we had fights of 150 vs 150 vs 150. Now with the 1st computer I had played DAoC with, I had alot of lag in such fights. But once I bought my new computer with alot better GFX card and more RAM, I could run on medium high settings, enjoy the grafics while fighting with and against hundreds of people and I had hardly any client lag. Just to say, the computers are alot more powerfull now then when EvE came out. Take a Dual Core CPU, 4GB RAM ( vista required ), raptor HD, Geforce 8800GTS 320MB and see the difference with your single core, 1GB RAM, IDE HD, geforece 6600GT 128MB. Also, if the more advanced features of GPU's arent supported by EvE, then just go brute force and go for higher clock speeds as much as possible, this would include Overclocking :p I guess that is one of the reasons why my PC runs so well on EvE, cause it is highly overclocked and thus gives raw power. But yah I guess the presented options are good for low budget. Also maintaining your computer is important, do not let loads of programs run at startup, defrag once in a while ( altho this is less usefull with a good dual raptor raid system ), dont go to **** sites ( spyware etc ), and so on :p Greets indeed.. normally eve runs fine - as I keep saying this for very specific situations. Imagine jita where everyone is on the same grid and shooting each other around a pos with 20-30% of local in capitals with fighters out and you'll get the idea... it aint fun. Well it is, but its not fun toooooooooo...
Lucy Light	Posted - 2007.06.29 12:19:00 - [60] Edited by: Lucy Light on 29/06/2007 12:27:55 Edited by: Lucy Light on 29/06/2007 12:17:38 it works!! no lag whatsoever!! have a look at the result winxp linkage vista (please, bear in mind there aren't drivers yet for my graphic card available for Vista) linkage Lucy, under the street Light - Everytime you shoot me, CCP kills a carebear. - Could somebody please think of the carebears?



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