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Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:41:00 - [1] I should begin by establishing that I am a loyal Caldari citizen. I believe in order, in controlling chaos, and that laws are a requisite part of creating a stable society in which to thrive. Looking upon the tenuous alliance my government holds with our Amarrian allies, I can overlook slavery. Our less...sophisticated allies need the means to establish themselves as a powerhouse. I can overlook torture too. Some hardened criminals are unwilling to part with time-sensitive or crucial information under less arduous conditions. Our two states have coexisted for quite some time. Granted, the occasional dispute arises, but the same holds true for any siblings. Advocating chemical warfare and mass genocide, however, I cannot tolerate. Not an hour ago, I received a distress call from within the Minmatar Republic about an Amarrian Convoy transporting a weaponized version of Vitoc, with the intent of unleashing it into the atmosphere of a heavily populated planet within Minmatar space. Such...vindictiveness breeds chaos, a disordered state of anarchy that is antithetical to the tenets that we have founded our state upon. Amarrians: Such madness is counterproductive to your galactic presence. I would not normally take up arms against my allies, but I found myself blazing through a swarm of your naval ships, in disbelief that such madness could be representative of your higher echelons of command. Nor do I feel repentant for disallowing your naval forces to sow such seeds of chaos. Be advised that while I speak not for my own chain of command, I can assure you that our alliance cannot flourish if you continue to advocate lunacy.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:04:00 - [2] There is more to the Truth than meets the eye. You took this intel at face value, did you not? Believe me, I have melted many a Minmatar task force in Amarr space, where the intel informed me of a mass genocide bioweapon was expected to be unleashed upon an unsuspecting planet if they could not be stopped. Did I believe the intel? I did my Duty. ----------------------------------------------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:12:00 - [3] So, Amarrian ships were delivering Vitoc were they? Were you aware that Vitoc is an antidote, not a poison? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:59:00 - [4] I'm well aware that Vitoc is an antidote. As I said, I hardly believed what I saw. The fact that Amarrian forces opened fire on me when I discovered them did little to assuage my doubts about their intents. The fact that sifting through the contents of these Amarrian ships yielded quite a few units of weaponized Vitoc was the final straw for my personal moral compass. The proof sits even now in a hangar, in a quarantined container, until such time that I might further meditate on this atrocity and determine my course of action. Denial is fruitless. I urge Amarrians to petition their ruling bodies to abandon this madness. I doubt that the Caldari State will long tolerate association to such abhorrence.
Kovid Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.29 09:36:00 - [5] Edited by: Kovid on 29/06/2007 09:43:45 Edited by: Kovid on 29/06/2007 09:40:04 Their wordplay and lies are not worth your time Curzon. Everyone knows vitoc is a method and not just the antidote. It is a two part system of toxin and addictive antidote. They created the substance for one purpose. They advanced it to the point of it being a changing virus and just happening to have the antidote for whenever it changes. A weaponized version of this is not something that is surprising. The Amarr are keen on finding new ways to get more slaves as they can't seem to breed enough or raid enough undercover. As for the Caldari, they have tolerated everything the Amarr do for a good business partner. You'll need to substantiate your proof to others for you to get anywhere past this point. Prepare for the Amarr PR department. ---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ \| ----------------------------------
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 29/06/2007 10:39:25 Originally by: Rodj Blake So, Amarrian ships were delivering Vitoc were they? Were you aware that Vitoc is an antidote, not a poison? Without a doubt the most amusing attempt at spin I have ever seen from the slavers. Vitoc is a means of continuation. A tool of slavery to keep the slaves under control by fear of death should their masters not let them have their 'antidote'. It is as foul as the toxin itself simply because of what it is designed to do. Edited: Worst did not fit my feelings on this exactly. I find it more amusing than anything else. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Ma Raia'l Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Curzon Dax weaponized Vitoc Clearly this man has no clue what he's prattling on about; a lethal antidote? Tell me, how can something that cures be used to kill? With that logic we might as well infect the entire Minmatar population the most vicious strain of Virii. They'll be thanking us for curing all of their worldly ailments and submit!
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:18:00 - [8] Well presented nonsense. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:23:00 - [9] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 29/06/2007 11:23:03 Originally by: Ma Raia'l Clearly this man has no clue what he's prattling on about; a lethal antidote? Tell me, how can something that cures be used to kill? With that logic we might as well infect the entire Minmatar population the most vicious strain of Virii. They'll be thanking us for curing all of their worldly ailments and submit! Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Well presented nonsense. Could not agree more... ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.29 11:33:00 - [10] That is how Amarr fight. Spraying chemicals from the sky, infesting man, woman, children, who happen to be around, regardless of race, deed or chracter. Claiming to do this kind of monstrosities in the name of God means staining his name, nothing more. They have no guts, no honour, they can't even look their victims in the eyes. Cowards they are, not worth to be called warriors. To be spit upon by every rightful man.
Eveliddia Amarr The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.29 15:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Kabajashi San That is how Amarr fight. Spraying chemicals from the sky, infesting man, woman, children, who happen to be around, regardless of race, deed or chracter. Claiming to do this kind of monstrosities in the name of God means staining his name, nothing more. They have no guts, no honour, they can't even look their victims in the eyes. Cowards they are, not worth to be called warriors. To be spit upon by every rightful man. I do not believe that any sort of chemicals were used in Providence nor by any of the Amarrian bloc. Your argument is weak at best sir.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:59:00 - [12] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 29/06/2007 20:01:25 This story again. How pathetic. Lets look at this logically, shall we? Every day there are reports like this from both sides of the border, task forces people are claiming to be Matari or Amarrian funded in the wrong part of space, supposedly planning to spray a planet with bioweapons. Yet the only actual example of such a catastrophic event actually happening was the blood raider attack on Mabnen two years ago. If there are so many daily attempts to destroy Matari and Amarrian planets... why do none succeed? And, if the task forces being destroyed were actually AN or RN, wouldn't that imply that the two nations were already at war? If you cannot see that something else is going on here, you are willfully blind. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 22:15:00 - [13] The truth is definitive, clear, and stoically unchangeable. The blithe slandering and snake-charming attempts of the Amarrians who have attempted to diffuse this allegation with doubt and misinformation mean nothing. The truth remains as concrete as the evidence secured even now in my hangar, along with a collection of bloody tags that belonged to no pretender army. Your slavery, and its moral implications are not my concern. Genocide of your workers on a planetary scale is abhorrent. The last clanging piece of evidence thundered into place resoundingly when you - Amarrians - answered my distressed note with denial and subterfuge instead of outrage and shock. The tone of your communications bely tolerance, acceptance, and even support. I can see that petitioning the Amarrian commoner is unhelpful. Blessed is the mind too small to doubt. Let me impart these words of wisdom. Your way has been contaminated. Your truth has been pillaged and molested by uncouth saboteurs intent on warping your path into heretical nonsense. The advent of planetary annihilation as an agenda to push bespeaks lunacy on a scale that can mean nothing less than the extremist zealots who had previously mumbled about outside of Amarrian circles of power now tightly enclosed within those very centers of power. You advocate the crumbling of your Way with this chaos. Denial is irrelevant. To the members of PIE that have thought to shift the tone of these, actions, I leave you with this poignant thought: Excuses are the refuge for the weak.
Ravin Abai Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.29 23:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Curzon Dax The truth is... Did you find vitoc in the wrecks of the ships? If so, are you willing to provide proof of your salvage? Furthermore, did you find any evidence of any kind of delivery system for your "chemical weapons" on these ships? If so, please provide proof of your findings. I think that you have been hoodwinked, Mr. Dax. Your Matari agents are deliberately misinforming you. You Caldari are a logical people, I find it odd that you did not question the veracity of your agent's claims that the Amarr Navy was planning on releasing a chemical agent on their people. Are you sure these men were even acting at the behest of the high command? Could they not be a rogue unit? Furthermore, their Navy tags and sensor signatures could have been a ruse, a disguise in order to stir up sentiment against the Empire. Check your facts before coming here and making hyperbolic claims about the purported villainy of the Amarr Empire. Inflammatory rhetoric and crude sophistry will get you nowhere.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.30 03:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Ravin Abai Originally by: Curzon Dax The truth is... Did you find vitoc in the wrecks of the ships? If so, are you willing to provide proof of your salvage? Furthermore, did you find any evidence of any kind of delivery system for your "chemical weapons" on these ships? If so, please provide proof of your findings. I think that you have been hoodwinked, Mr. Dax. Your Matari agents are deliberately misinforming you. You Caldari are a logical people, I find it odd that you did not question the veracity of your agent's claims that the Amarr Navy was planning on releasing a chemical agent on their people. Are you sure these men were even acting at the behest of the high command? Could they not be a rogue unit? Furthermore, their Navy tags and sensor signatures could have been a ruse, a disguise in order to stir up sentiment against the Empire. Check your facts before coming here and making hyperbolic claims about the purported villainy of the Amarr Empire. Inflammatory rhetoric and crude sophistry will get you nowhere. By your same logic, you could also be a Minmatar slave girl hiding under the guise of an Amarrian citizen. The propensity of evidence leans towards Amarrian madness, regardless of what a Minmatar agent might say.
Occasus Vim Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.30 03:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Occasus Vim on 30/06/2007 03:46:17 Originally by: Ravin Abai Inflammatory rhetoric and crude sophistry will get you nowhere. Ah, so this is why the Amarr enjoy such stagnation. Thank you for highlighting this.
Mr Reeth Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.06.30 04:32:00 - [17] Dear Mr. Dax, The Amarr-Caldari Alliance is one of the strongest in the Galaxy. I and many like me are deeply saddened when unpleasant incidents arise between our great people. With that said I think you should take another look at what happened. A Matari agent told you of an impending biological attack on a civilian population. Anyone would be crazy not to look into this. You arrive, are attacked, destroy the attackers and find some substance that may be a biological weapon. While IÆve never heard of such a weapon, it sounds like it might be designed to addict a population rather than kill it. But who were these attackers? Who were they working for? Were they really going to attack with it? Were they even near an inhabited planet? Were there any in the system? There are a lot of questions you never seemed to ask, important questions. So before you fly off the handle and make outrageous accusations you might want to look into the situation a little further. On a related note, we should not judge others by the worst of their kind. I do not hold the entire Republic responsible for the actions of UK. I do not hold the entire Federation responsible for the drug dealers that operate from their space and spread through the rest of the galaxy. And letÆs talk about the Caldari. Our galaxy is infested with Caldari mercs and pirates (Guiristas) and lets not forget that arguably the greatest monster in our history was a Caldari. I speak of Sansha. This man was such a inhuman creature that all four empires came together to defeat him. You think Vitoc is bad? How about some brain implant? But I do not hold any of this against the Caldari, nor do I assume every time I fight the Guristas that the Caldari Government sent them. And keep in mind by the former EmperorÆs own decrees these men would have been killed on sight in Amarr space. Thank you for reading this and I hope your view of the Empire isnÆt set in stone. -Reeth
Ardan Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.30 14:05:00 - [18] Amarrian treachery? Lets see, the amarr are trying to enslave the minmatar and convert us. If they accomplish this the Gallante are next. Once the Gallante have been converted, who do you think is next? They will not stop until we are all converted or they are all dead or converted. So just remember, if you help them enslave us, you will be bringing your own down fall. "Let them hate us as long as they Fear us." Colligula
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.30 14:11:00 - [19] The true question here is why the Minmatar Republic would contact you Mr. Dax. The very fact that they did suggests that you are working for the Republic, which goes against our alliance with the Empire! Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.06.30 14:11:00 - [20] By the logic of the Amarr a crime is not a crime as long as it doens't leave traces. The logic of a criminal.
Karl Mattar Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.06.30 17:13:00 - [21] The Amarr have no reason to do such a thing. They seek to enlighten and convert the Minmatar, not destroy them. I find this account highly implausible. While I do not doubt the facts as Curzon Dax has presented them, I do think there is far more deception than truth here. Someone has been played for a fool. It happens to us all over time. Never trust anything that comes out of the Republic.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.30 17:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Karl Mattar The Amarr have no reason to do such a thing. They seek to enlighten and convert the Minmatar, not destroy them. You make it sound like you actually believe that load of tripe. Here is another perspective for you. The Gallente only sought to enlighten and help the Caldari people. But when it came down to it you still had a long and bloody war and committed acts of terrorism against the Gallente. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Ravin Abai Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.30 18:58:00 - [23] It's funny that you chose to attack my logic rather than answer any of my questions, Mr. Dax. Your response has led me to believe that you in fact have no hard evidence to support your assertions. It would behoove you to listen to your fellow Caldari (as well as Mr. Reeth) in this case; as they have grasped the true essence of this situation.
Dau Katari	Posted - 2007.07.03 15:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Mr Reeth You arrive, are attacked, destroy the attackers and find some substance that may be a biological weapon. While IÆve never heard of such a weapon, it sounds like it might be designed to addict a population rather than kill it. My first response to this was to dismiss it as more semantic hair-splitting by an Amarr seeing his Empire's hand caught in the proverbial cookie jar, but on second thought, it may be worth noting: what were they doing with only the antidote? It's addicting, yes, but was the virus necessarily involved in what they were planning? Where's the other side of the coin? Mr Dax: you have the evidence in your hangar, you witnessed their hostile presence, and you don't need me, let alone any Amarr to validate your findings. While your State is in the process of building an alliance with the Amarr, you are aware of their history of conquest, and how little they break from tradition. With that in mind, I would argue that you may take their desire to enslave or destroy all races - even their supposed allies - as a given. It's something I make a point of discussing with any Caldari I speak to for more than a moment, but in this case, it might be a good idea to take the advice of nearly every Amarr that has rebutted your claim and admit to yourself that you don't know exactly what is going on. However, unlike these Amarr officers, you are not bound by duty to the Empire to turn a blind eye to atrocities and stupidly parrot the party line, or just change the subject altogether. The virus is a missing piece, but knowing the ways of the Holders, you can be sure that there is far more to this than meets the eye: a possible weakness to exploit.
Rakiro Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Sundering	Posted - 2007.07.04 14:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Ma Raia'l Tell me, how can something that cures be used to kill? Vitoc is not a cure, Mr Ma Raia'l. It merely numbs the symptoms and postpones the ultimate effects of the induced illness. Calling something a cure would imply that the virus itself is attacked and destroyed... At best, a continual supply of Vitoc is temporary relief from the symptoms induced by the first ingestion. It is a vile tactic employed exclusively by those who are of a low moral standard and completely devoid of compassion. As a side note, I have recieved similar assignments from my agent in Aunia... I supposse it's possible that the information my agent gave to me was false and the Vitoc I found inside the industrials was not meant to be used in somesort of weapon... however they where very heavily guarded and you have to wonder: if they where harmlessly going about normal business, what where they doing all the way in Aunia, so far awar from the Empire? I will leave you with that thought. -Rakiro
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.04 18:03:00 - [26] Your last is a good question. A better question is: If these common raids are aimed at destroying planets, why are none destroyed or damaged? And an even better question than that would be: If the Amarr Navy is regularly committing large forces to direct and open attacks on the Matari Republic, and the MAtari Navy is doing the same to Amarr, would that not suggest we are already at war? We are not at war, so something else is going on here in regards to both the "Matari Navy" attacks on Amarr destroyed by Pod Pilots and the "Amarr Navy" attacks on the Matari also destroyed by pod pilots. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Lyzra Amarr Peregrine Guidance Systems Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.04 22:30:00 - [27] The topic itself is certainly valid, the fear and uncertainity of the intelligence received from your superiors and the actual evidence which is identified in certain ways by our sensorgrids and ships systems. The problem is with few facets. Its true that considering the amounts of attacks using some sort of 'agent' for a warfare to be distributed in the athmosphere of the target system is alarming. Its also true there has not been any reports of such attacks actually achieving anything, yet considering the intelligence received authorities seem to be rather aware of such attacks. Finally, I would put forward a thought that those parties attempting these rather dirty attacks towards Republic space might be same whom do similar strieks into Holy Empires space carrying viral agents to distributed into systems habitable planets athmospheres. This by the far is a disturbing thought, a third party or just illegal elements of the societies attempting to fuel the animosity between the borders for various agendas. I do not have so deeply analyzed information, I am afterall just a simple merchant with some experience.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.04 22:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Your last is a good question. A better question is: If these common raids are aimed at destroying planets, why are none destroyed or damaged? And an even better question than that would be: If the Amarr Navy is regularly committing large forces to direct and open attacks on the Matari Republic, and the MAtari Navy is doing the same to Amarr, would that not suggest we are already at war? We are not at war, so something else is going on here in regards to both the "Matari Navy" attacks on Amarr destroyed by Pod Pilots and the "Amarr Navy" attacks on the Matari also destroyed by pod pilots. Dear Captain Amarr, aka "Captain Obvious," I would suggest that the Amarr have not managed to complete destruction of any planets because every time an Amarrian fleet assembles to carry out a full-scale biological attack, some brave pilot from one of the other republics, and potentially even an Amarr pilot from time to time destroy these fleets. Furthermore, since you've seen fit to bring this to light, I am beginning to doubt the competency of the Amarrian fleet, given that so many of its fleets are so often destroyed single-handedly by other pod-pilots. I can only imagine the vast stores of Amarrian dogtags that have been sifted from the rubble of Amarrian fleets and now sit in hangars throughout Minmatar space. I suppose my answer to your question, specifically, "If these common raids are aimed at destroying planets, why are none destroyed or damaged?" would be this: The raids fail out of a combination of the Amarrian fleet's inability to find a populated planet, their frequent destruction at the hands of other pilots who won't stand for these abominable acts, and a vast inability of the Amarrian fleet to carry out its orders with any degree of competency. Since you asked....
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.05 14:40:00 - [29] Which is interesting as the Amarr Navy pilots I have flown beside in the past... were not so incompetent. Same with the republic navy officers from the Defiants whom PIE pilots have fought against. Yet I have also fought fleets from the RN and FN that fought exactly like you described. So why are these fleets, both Matari and Gallente attacking Amarr and Amarr or Caldari attacking Matari and Gallente so woefully incompetent. (Not to mention, why are they there at all in peacetime?) And if they never succeed... which is obviously the case, why do they keep being sent? It was a big deal when a single CN ship docked at a republic station in breach of international treaty, surely if your intel was correct we would be at war since both sides are supposedly trying to commit massecres on a daily basis. And do you really believe that every navy in space suffers from terminal stupidity at the upper command levels in wasting hundreds of thousands of lives on suicide missions? Do your agents missions, by all means, but dont come screaming about Amarrian treachery on here, when it is obvious to anyone with a brain that there is more going on here than pod pilots are told. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.05 16:11:00 - [30] How do you know that these assaults never succeed? There are thousands of systems out there with million of planets. Some of them are intensily populated, some are just vast land. Some have very active communication lines, on others news are being brought by bypassing ships every once in a while. On many of these more deserted planets it wouldn't be known for years when the population of a region or even a continent vanishes and nobody would even search for the reason why they did so. My theory is that these attacks are scientific projects in order to improve the effectiveness of Vitoc. You spray it onto a few thousand people and look how they react. Chances are that the genetic widespread amond these people will bring a few to be immune to the specific load of Vitoc. You can then examine these poor survivors to adapt Vitoc to these genetic prepositions and thus make it more likely to be effective on everyone. Evolution tends to make people immune to a virus and the only way to avoid that and keep the virus active is to adapt it to every possible genetic condition. Of course this is pure speculation. If I would have any prove be sure I would present it. But as always I strongly object the Amarr way of thinking: "A crime is not a crime until you can proove what I did." Your crimes will not be forgotten.

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