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Aaron Mirrorsaver
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.06.29 19:26:00 -
[1]
Just a question about how insurance really works in Eve.
Why can I insure a battle ship for 176 million which I paid 165million for? Is it that they are assuming average market price, or price of tier 3 battleship and that is fixed?
Because by the same token I pay 90 million for a Curse combat recon and can only get back 15 million on platinum, so something isn't adding up.
Are curse's just over priced ont he market is that it? Or was the real value never fixed at a fair rate for insurance purposes?
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Le Bon
Gallente
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.29 19:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Le Bon on 29/06/2007 19:27:01
the cost of buying it then insuring it exceeds the price you originally bought it for thierfore you cannot commit insurance fraud.
and yes, t2 ships are not sold at mineral value for the fact of not everyone has a BPO.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.29 19:31:00 -
[3]
insurance amount is based on the "base price", but the market price is set by players.
so in the case of T2 ships, most of them are priced well above the "base price".
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Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Aaron Mirrorsaver
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.06.29 20:04:00 -
[4]
i didnt really mean it literally in terms of fraud.
it sucks tho that those ships are priced so high.
whats the cost to produce a curse or other recon ship in terms of all materials needed?
Paying 50 mil to insure a BS aint so bad, 165 mil + 50 mil = 215 mil. insurance = 176mil. Your out 39 million if you get shot down, of course this doesn't include the mods you lose, but still, its good :)
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Reithan
Caldari
LEGI0N
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.06.29 20:15:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver
it sucks tho that those ships are priced so high.
whats the cost to produce a curse or other recon ship in terms of all materials needed?
The inflation isn't all in production. The materials to produce T2 ships are inflated, too. So, the miner mines the stuff, overcharges the producer of the components, who overcharges the producer of the ship who, in turn, overcharges the buyer of the ship.
Going from start to finish, adding inflation on each step ends up with a severly inflated end product.
Simply put the demand for T2 ships is WAAAY more than the supply - so they cost a ton.
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.29 20:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Reithan
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver
it sucks tho that those ships are priced so high.
whats the cost to produce a curse or other recon ship in terms of all materials needed?
The inflation isn't all in production. The materials to produce T2 ships are inflated, too. So, the miner mines the stuff, overcharges the producer of the components, who overcharges the producer of the ship who, in turn, overcharges the buyer of the ship.
Going from start to finish, adding inflation on each step ends up with a severly inflated end product.
Simply put the demand for T2 ships is WAAAY more than the supply - so they cost a ton.
if hi-sec moon mining was allowed, the T2 market would likely experience a significant drop in prices.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Barrick Stormsworn
Minmatar
CAD Inc.
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.06.29 20:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
insurance amount is based on the "base price", but the market price is set by players.
so in the case of T2 ships, most of them are priced well above the "base price".
Not quite true. Insurance amounts fluctuate depending on the mineral cost of the ship. The base price of the ship is set by the base price of minerals for it (which stays pretty static most of the time, though it's going up at the moment). This means that if you added up the price of buying all the minerals to build a ship, you'd just about have the market value of that ship and subsequently the platinum insurance amount.
Only players with very good manufacturing skills can make a profit off building ships; they're able to get more from the same amount of minerals, in essence.
T2 ships require relatively few minerals, but a lot of other rare components (largely obtained from COSMOS missions) that are not taken into account by Insurance Calculations. Since insurance only looks at minerals and T2 ships require more than minerals, insurance doesn't compensate for T2 ships accordingly. When you insure a T2 ship and lose it, you are receiving the amount of ISK the minerals that ship requires costs. When you insure a T1 ship and lose it, you are receiving enough ISK to buy all the minerals needed to build that ship again (if only you had the skills to build it efficiently!).
Most people don't have tremendous markups on their T1 ships, so insurance pays out well for them. If you had bought a Myrmidon or Drake when they first came out for 300mil, you would not be able to insure it for 300mil, only for about 45mil. Just the nature of the insurance calculations.
Yeah, it kind of sucks, but there you have it. Just don't bother insuring T2 ships, and be happy when you make money off insurance 
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Darekish
Caldari
Ascent of Ages
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.30 08:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Darekish on 30/06/2007 08:57:00
(edit spelling)
Quote:
T2 ships require relatively few minerals, but a lot of other rare components (largely obtained from COSMOS missions
clearly you have no idea about T2 ship production as NONE of the components for T2 ships come from COSMOS! They are produced as follows:
Step 1 - moon mine resources in low sec / 0.0 with a POS
Step 2 - combine at a POS via a reactor 2 moon minerals to make a simple reaction
Step 3 - combine 2 or more simple reactions via a larger reactor at a POS to make an advanced reaction
Step 3 - using the correct component BPO such as 'plasma reactor' combine two or more advanced reactions to make a T2 component
Step 5 - ship to empire and sell or collect the other components and BPO and build a T2 item.
This is a complex, time consuming and expensive process with massive capital investment in POS's etc. thats why the components can be expensive (IMHO a very fair reasons for the price)
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Jennai
The Silent Rage
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.30 09:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jennai on 30/06/2007 09:09:15
Originally by: Barrick Stormsworn
Originally by: Alora Venoda
insurance amount is based on the "base price", but the market price is set by players.
so in the case of T2 ships, most of them are priced well above the "base price".
Not quite true. Insurance amounts fluctuate depending on the mineral cost of the ship. The base price of the ship is set by the base price of minerals for it (which stays pretty static most of the time, though it's going up at the moment). This means that if you added up the price of buying all the minerals to build a ship, you'd just about have the market value of that ship and subsequently the platinum insurance amount.
what
insuring a megathron always costs 31.5 and always pays 105, regardless of whether it cost 80 or 95 to build.
there's a safety valve on the low end - if minerals ever become so cheap that insurance + buildcost < payout, people will buy, insure, and self-destruct ships for profit, removing minerals from the economy and driving prices upwards.
there is no such feature on the high end - if minerals all get really expensive and it costs 110 to build a megathron, they'd be selling for 115-120 and you'd still only get an insurance payout of 105.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2007.06.30 09:43:00 -
[10]
I have heard of people finding ships for less than they could get by insuring it and getting it blown up. They bought them, got them blown up, the market price of the ship went up as a result of them buying all the cheap ones.
So yes, you can sometimes make a profit on insurance claims but only very rarely.
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.06.30 09:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Darekish
Edited by: Darekish on 30/06/2007 08:57:00
(edit spelling)
Quote:
T2 ships require relatively few minerals, but a lot of other rare components (largely obtained from COSMOS missions
clearly you have no idea about T2 ship production as NONE of the components for T2 ships come from COSMOS! They are produced as follows:
Step 1 - moon mine resources in low sec / 0.0 with a POS
Step 2 - combine at a POS via a reactor 2 moon minerals to make a simple reaction
Step 3 - combine 2 or more simple reactions via a larger reactor at a POS to make an advanced reaction
Step 3 - using the correct component BPO such as 'plasma reactor' combine two or more advanced reactions to make a T2 component
Step 5 - ship to empire and sell or collect the other components and BPO and build a T2 item.
This is a complex, time consuming and expensive process with massive capital investment in POS's etc. thats why the components can be expensive (IMHO a very fair reasons for the price)
You forgot ice mining, no fuel no pos
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.30 10:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Barrick Stormsworn
Originally by: Alora Venoda
insurance amount is based on the "base price", but the market price is set by players.
so in the case of T2 ships, most of them are priced well above the "base price".
Not quite true. Insurance amounts fluctuate depending on the mineral cost of the ship.
You really should not be speaking on this subject without heavy disclaimers to the tune of "I probably dont know what I am talking about".
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tommit
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Posted - 2007.06.30 10:50:00 -
[13]
bad programming is what it is.
should be insured for X % of the original price (although this would be very exsploitable
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.06.30 11:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: tommit
bad programming is what it is.
should be insured for X % of the original price (although this would be very exsploitable
It's bad programming because they don't use a method which you yourself point out is 'very exploitable'?
Your logic confuses and infuriates me.
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You keep using that word . . . I do not think it means what you think it means |
Jennai
The Silent Rage
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.30 11:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: tommit
bad programming is what it is.
should be insured for X % of the original price (although this would be very exsploitable
It's bad programming because they don't use a method which you yourself point out is 'very exploitable'?
Your logic confuses and infuriates me.
nonsensical logic, but it's a viable idea. if it was based on the game-wide average transaction price, it wouldn't be exploitable unless you were somehow able to cause a significant change in the entire mineral market.
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Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.30 12:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver
Just a question about how insurance really works in Eve.
Why can I insure a battle ship for 176 million which I paid 165million for? Is it that they are assuming average market price, or price of tier 3 battleship and that is fixed?
Because by the same token I pay 90 million for a Curse combat recon and can only get back 15 million on platinum, so something isn't adding up.
Are curse's just over priced ont he market is that it? Or was the real value never fixed at a fair rate for insurance purposes?
insurance payout = mineral price
price to buy ship = player set market price dependant upon mineral cost on local market, how well the BPO is researched, supply and demand.
in the case of t2 ships, demand far outstrips supply, as hardly anyone has the BPO, so those few who have can charge whatever they damn well feel like 
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Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
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