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@Devs: LP-shop offers are unfair

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Handelsmakler	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:35:00 - [1] Hi, as you all know, there are NPC-Corps, from which you can get the Nexus Chips for 8000LP and sell them for 8m. That's 1000LP = 1m ISK. But there are plenty of other NPC-Corps, who don't have this kind of offer. I think, that's very unfair. By adding such offers (at least one, and i don't mean Nexus Chips in general, just a 1000LP =1m ISK offer), the market for faction ships (and the other items) will also stabilize, so there isn't the pricefall of the last weeks (especially for Amarr and Minmatar Navy ships). If you think, that you should do missions for the NPC-corps, who do offer nexus chips, then i have to say, that these systems will getting fuller = more lag. Perhaps i did understand something wrong (so you can correct me), but i think, that this is not very fair to the people, who are doing missions and then have to realize, that their hard-gained LP aren't worth than the LP of abovementioned NPC-Corps. So i would appreciate a fix for the LP-shop. Best regards
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:39:00 - [2] You want unfair!? Take a look at the Khanid LP store and tell us CCP care for the region/faction The region has almost every lvl 4 agent (bar 1) in low sec but never the less has some fantastic opportunities for mission runners inc. x2 lvl 5 agents, but they totally void any effect this might have in drawing people away from motsu etc. by utterly screwing us over with the LP store (p.s. ANGRY!) Khaldari KPA are recruiting In-game channel: khanidpublic
Gloria Stitz	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:40:00 - [3] Nexus chips were removed from fed customs 2 days after the lp store was implemented. I don't know the situation with other npc corps ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:40:00 - [4] You can't really balance those offers against the market - market will go up and down depending on multiple factors... I do agree however most shops should have offers of similar importance - I'm a nice guy!! and OMG I love Team Tuxford for the speedbalancing...
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:46:00 - [5] shhh just trade between regions
Alexi Borizkova Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.07.02 12:59:00 - [6] Even if they are dead set against offering nexus chips to the non military npc corps they could do something else interesting: LP for trade good offers. Once upon a time the life of a mission runner involved getting piles of all sorts of stuff that eventually got large enough to warrant trading expeditions. I think it would be nice to bring some of this back via the lp store.
King Khanlei	Posted - 2007.07.02 13:01:00 - [7] Yeah - offers have changed as well, I got an offer a couple of months ago for a gunnery implant (5% damage on all turrets) but now the LP shop for the same agent doesn't have it as an option in the LP shop - damn annoying that the offer tables have changed.
Cyclops43	Posted - 2007.07.02 13:07:00 - [8] Edited by: Cyclops43 on 02/07/2007 13:11:32 I don't see this as a problem tbh. The most obvious change done to the LP reward system with the shop is not something people really notice, but something which means that the ISK/LP price will probably go above 1000.... What I'm talking about is the massive addition of new attractive items to the store! Think about it... Before, the best offer possible was the CNR. Implants were given as mission rewards, so those offers were not worth it. Sub-BS faction ships were more or less useless. The best offers (books) were strictly limited in the LP range where they could be gotten... etc. Towards the end of the old offer system, even CNR offers didn't pay 1000 ISK/LP... But now, all store items are freely available whenever you want, so the ISK/LP price will eventually average out. And since there are a lot more worthwhile objects to get now, the LP will be spread much more out. This should mean the LP price could very well end up quite a bit above the 1000 ISK price for the nexus chips. Also having an effect is that a lot of LP offers will be 'consumables', i.e. items which people will not mind too much to loose in combat... These will be a nice ISK and LP sink: +3 implants, possibly even +4's 3% hardwire implants Faction ammo So, I don't really think the situation is bad for mission runners.... You just have to look at the big picture.... Oh... Hi Spoon :-)
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 13:16:00 - [9] Most players will already look at the items and ask themselves how much it would sell for. If the isk value of the item is not worth the LP then it won't sell. Most agent rewards in the past have been sold on, ships and implants have always been a feature in the escrow/contracts and will continue to be common until the price drops significantly. TBH, I'd like to see a buyback of LP for isk by the shop. Faction ships and implants would then be owned by players who actually earned them doing missions and not just bought them from other mission runners who just want the isk. --
Ashraaf Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.07.02 13:45:00 - [10] apart for the problem of khanid lp offer I find the new system very good I have choice for items, and more i can take stuff just for fun, collection.... Having different stuff for different corp is fine. Maybe some items got more value cause noone would do mission for one corp but it's player problem. If you want something you have to work :)

Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:09:00 - [11] If you don't like the offers, find a new NPC corp to work for. Pre-patch, if your main agent was in Motsu, you couldn't just "leave" because you had a gazillion LP's with your Motsu agent. But now, you can completely cash out whenever you feel like it. And if you cash out on something like implants & faction ships (with lower isk/LP ratios), just stash them in the hangar, and wait for the market to stabilize.
Khonsu Rest home for Tired Seadogs	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Ashraaf apart for the problem of khanid lp offer I find the new system very good I have choice for items, and more i can take stuff just for fun, collection.... Having different stuff for different corp is fine. Maybe some items got more value cause noone would do mission for one corp but it's player problem. If you want something you have to work :) Yes, with these prices it's just for collection. 30 mill ISK worth (LP+ISK+Tags) for 1x small Amarr Navy laser. I'd like to see someone put 4 of those on a frig and then USE it to fight.
Zoi Opia Raw Edge O X I D E	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:22:00 - [13] Actually, I feel that the NPC buy orders for Nexus chips (and any other goods available from LP store) should be removed. I hope it's just something CCP forgot to do when they added the LP store.
Rafein	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Zoi Opia Actually, I feel that the NPC buy orders for Nexus chips (and any other goods available from LP store) should be removed. I hope it's just something CCP forgot to do when they added the LP store. Yeah, what I'm expeting to see happen soon. Probably when they finally get around to adding the new ME agents to other races, which i can;t seem to find yet.
Xtreem Gallente Firestorm Incorporated	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:48:00 - [15] if there 1 mil per 1klp, then it works out better isk wise to cash out on the chips and not the faction bpc as that requires building, hmmmmmm, i know my agent gives ou the chip. gonna have to check that
Handelsmakler	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:59:00 - [16] Edited by: Handelsmakler on 02/07/2007 14:59:43 Edited by: Handelsmakler on 02/07/2007 14:59:24 Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 02/07/2007 13:11:32 I don't see this as a problem tbh. The most obvious change done to the LP reward system with the shop is not something people really notice, but something which means that the ISK/LP price will probably go above 1000.... What I'm talking about is the massive addition of new attractive items to the store! Think about it... Before, the best offer possible was the CNR. Implants were given as mission rewards, so those offers were not worth it. Sub-BS faction ships were more or less useless. The best offers (books) were strictly limited in the LP range where they could be gotten... etc. Towards the end of the old offer system, even CNR offers didn't pay 1000 ISK/LP... But now, all store items are freely available whenever you want, so the ISK/LP price will eventually average out. And since there are a lot more worthwhile objects to get now, the LP will be spread much more out. This should mean the LP price could very well end up quite a bit above the 1000 ISK price for the nexus chips. Also having an effect is that a lot of LP offers will be 'consumables', i.e. items which people will not mind too much to loose in combat... These will be a nice ISK and LP sink: +3 implants, possibly even +4's 3% hardwire implants Faction ammo So, I don't really think the situation is bad for mission runners.... You just have to look at the big picture.... Oh... Hi Spoon :-) Well, as you said above, the best price/LP ratio is a faction bs. But as i mentionned above, there are NPC-Corps, who only offers crappy imps (although before the patch, they used to offer good imps) and faction bs. So a lot of the mission-runners have to sell faction-bs, which will lead (in fact, is currently leading)to decreasing prices for faction bs. The mission-runners, who have the choice of either to sell a faction ship, or the nexus chip, have the guaranty that their LP will have at least a 1m for 1000LP ratio. So if everyone will get the choice to either get a nexus chip (or something equal), the prices for all the other items in the LP-store will stabilize, because everything will at least sold for approximately 1m ISK per 1000LP.
Namingway Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters	Posted - 2007.07.02 15:25:00 - [17] Since muc of the mission running is in Caldari space, I sugget CCP give each of the 8 megacorp police groups atleast a quality 0 lvl 4 agent in highsec, and a qual 20 lvl 4 in lowsec Then you spread those agents out nicely and boom, you have nearly a dozen places other than motsu. Originally by: CCP kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
Cyclops43	Posted - 2007.07.02 15:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Handelsmakler Well, as you said above, the best price/LP ratio is a faction bs. But as i mentionned above, there are NPC-Corps, who only offers crappy imps (although before the patch, they used to offer good imps) and faction bs. So a lot of the mission-runners have to sell faction-bs, which will lead (in fact, is currently leading)to decreasing prices for faction bs. The mission-runners, who have the choice of either to sell a faction ship, or the nexus chip, have the guaranty that their LP will have at least a 1m for 1000LP ratio. So if everyone will get the choice to either get a nexus chip (or something equal), the prices for all the other items in the LP-store will stabilize, because everything will at least sold for approximately 1m ISK per 1000LP. Almost correct. The best offer WAS the faction battleship! Now, all (useful) offers will by the market mechanisms be equally priced, and will eventially end up at the same price in ISK/LP. Before, the large majority of LP was expended on faction BS, but now the randomness of offers has been removed, and a lot of new attractive offers added. The number of LP generated is a constant (more or less) given the number of mission runners. When they're spread over more (good) offers, the average price in ISK/LP will most likely increase.... There are some problems with some corp not giving out anything useful, but I'm fairly certain CCP will fix that. I have no problem with the nexus chips being buyable by NPC's either. The corp that offers them don't (afaik) have high-level combat agents so it takes far longer to gather LP with them than combat agents. I also think the average LP price will end up at above 1000 ISK/LP anyway....
Handelsmakler	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:09:00 - [19] Let's see how exactly the patch will change the LP-shop Quote: LP Store * Numerous fixes and balancing have been performed on LP Offers. * Comma separators have been added to the prices in the LP store, i.e. 10000 is displayed as 10,000.
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Callthetruth shhh just trade between regions There you go being reasonable again. :)

Anda Chiyo	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Anda Chiyo on 03/07/2007 12:50:23
throbbinnoggin Gallente Eminent Domain	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Cyclops43 There are some problems with some corp not giving out anything useful, but I'm fairly certain CCP will fix that. I certainly hope so. The biggest problem I see with the current implementaion of the LP market, is its biased favoritism of faction navy/military corporations. Currently non military corporations, even if you're working for a command/security/internal sec/intel/surv type agent, are only offering a small fraction of the hardwires and faction gear of military types. This will only exacerbate the current crowding situation in high sec. People will cash out their existing corporation, and head to already overcrowded places like Motsu to pursue the better faction navy/military LP market. The best and easiest solution I can think of is to make all of the gear offered by the LP market the same for all corporations within a faction. With the exception of a specific line or two of hardwires that would be unique to that type of corporation. Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 'Abraham Lincoln'
Maniva Lakona	Posted - 2007.07.03 12:58:00 - [23] I spent all my LP's on Specialisation skills and made a killing on the first day, made me happy anyway
Natassja Johannessen Gallente The Nationalist Fringe	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Khonsu Originally by: Ashraaf apart for the problem of khanid lp offer I find the new system very good I have choice for items, and more i can take stuff just for fun, collection.... Having different stuff for different corp is fine. Maybe some items got more value cause noone would do mission for one corp but it's player problem. If you want something you have to work :) Yes, with these prices it's just for collection. 30 mill ISK worth (LP+ISK+Tags) for 1x small Amarr Navy laser. I'd like to see someone put 4 of those on a frig and then USE it to fight. Some of the requirements seem quite silly with regards to these tags (that ppl are jacking up on the market btw). You can get faction gear off contracts way cheaper / easier. I have only collected tags from missions in the past and i don't get anywhere near the numbers needed from running missions to afford these items. The missions that drop them are few and far between and the market is not an option because thats just insane paying those prices. Like Khonsu said, no one is going to put this stuff on ships when its so much time /effort / ISK to do so. I thought these stores are supposed to open up faction gear for the use in combat but atm it is just a collectors thing as you would never risk using it. Just to set up a faction frig with it's faction gear you are looking at 250k+ in LP, over 100 Million ISK to buy the items from the store and about 200-300 Million ISK to buy the tags off the market if so inclined or grind an eternity for the hundreds of tags needed...lol, this is just to fit a faction frigate! I agree it should be difficult but as it stands it is totally pointless and we will never see faction fitted ships in combat. They will just be locked up in a station somewhere gathering dust... "Dude, i love the new LP store. I have a fully fitted faction ship" "Cool man, can i see it?" "NO! get out of my hanger, now! MINE!"
MellaRinn The Scope	Posted - 2007.07.03 13:16:00 - [25] IMHO the nexus chips were (in some corps still are) the insurance for CCP and mission runners that the mission time will pay at least the base price of 1k ISK for 1 LP. Now that the major faction ships are tanking heavily on the market and pirate faction ships are skyrocketting, Nexus chips would balance the influx of ISK if they were seeded to EVERY LP store. Otherwise, in a month I'll be able to buy CNRs for 400mil or less from frustrated CN mission runners who don't get the nexus chips and yet have LP piling up to the roof and not feasible way of tranferring it into relatively quick money... So, agreeing with the OP: either remove chips alltogether or seed them for all. My Vids - Click
Handelsmakler	Posted - 2007.07.04 13:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Handelsmakler Let's see how exactly the patch will change the LP-shop Quote: LP Store * Numerous fixes and balancing have been performed on LP Offers. * Comma separators have been added to the prices in the LP store, i.e. 10000 is displayed as 10,000. still the same


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