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Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:20:00 - [1] In june, we stabalised our businesses and graduately increased our current businesses. This has resulted in a profit of 27.631.814.174 isk, which is a 9,56% profit. Our main markets stay very stable and demand is high. We actually had allmost no items on the market when I made our inventory check, so demand is high enough to expand. At the moment, we use a full station of manufacturing slots, 50 in total. Another 45-50 manufacturing slots are used by 3 different subcontractors who provide us with over 1B isk of production raws every day. balance sheet ------------- Assets 21102 shares in wallet 116,3 bn ISK loans 93,7 bn ISK industrial assets (BPOs, inventory, POS) 0,45 bn ISK trade assets/market orders 43,6 bn ISK shopping baskets 32,9 bn ISK cash ---------- 288,9 bill ISK Liabilities 28898 shares outstanding 10 Misk per share IPO price ------------ 288,9 bill ISK Stins, ISS Finance Director
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:39:00 - [2] Sorry to have accidentally cause your thread to be buried. And hearing about your current expansion potential is good news for you. (Even if I have no shares). Congratulations. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!!
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.07.03 21:02:00 - [3] Very nice...thanks for the divies and glad they are still forthcoming after all your caravaning All the best :) Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.04 08:02:00 - [4] new record in loans...? how much auf those 116.3bil are you still passing on to players/corps/other entities directly subject to the "public" ISS. what are the interest rates on those these days? (iow, if it's just 10%, there's no hope for a proper dividend from that item either) -
Sales Merchant	Posted - 2007.07.04 09:59:00 - [5] Edited by: Sales Merchant on 04/07/2007 09:59:13 Originally by: Stins Our main markets stay very stable and demand is high. We actually had allmost no items on the market when I made our inventory check, so demand is high enough to expand. But another bare minimum 5% return for investors? It's been 6 months in a row, no point giving a report that things are fantastic when they aren't. Well maybe they are fantastic for you and your pockets. __ "You are not entirely safeà but I can safely say that EVE is going to hurt you until you leave or learn. The world will persist without you." -Tovarishch
Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.04 10:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Roemy Schneider new record in loans...? how much auf those 116.3bil are you still passing on to players/corps/other entities directly subject to the "public" ISS. what are the interest rates on those these days? (iow, if it's just 10%, there's no hope for a proper dividend from that item either) indeed, new record in loans... 40B isk is loaned out to ISS related entities, but I am not sure why that is different as loaning out money to entities not related with ISS? By the way, we stopped loaning out isk, because in the past, it was a good way to secure a part of our profits, but now we are at a point, where we easily can make more money in other fields as in loans, and also have the manpower to do so. So no more loans are given out at this moment. Originally by: Sales Merchant Edited by: Sales Merchant on 04/07/2007 09:59:13 Originally by: Stins Our main markets stay very stable and demand is high. We actually had allmost no items on the market when I made our inventory check, so demand is high enough to expand. But another bare minimum 5% return for investors? It's been 6 months in a row, no point giving a report that things are fantastic when they aren't. Well maybe they are fantastic for you and your pockets. We've paid out 5% to the shareholders indeed, which is exactly what we said we'd do in our business plan, so I'm not sure why you call it a "bare minimum"? Stins, ISS Finance Director
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.04 14:21:00 - [7] i find this lack of awareness disturbing; loaning money to yourself for (question not answered) presumably 10% in order to squeeze way more profitable ventures into the minimum yield is a contradiction of interest, which was "Going Public". in other words, you are withholding profit from the owners of ISS. this public ISS is what you sold us - not delivering by diverting profit to numbered esoterian bank accounts is stealing. not paying out these exceeding profits is a breach of the business plan and thus follows the definition of scam. ISS has always been so keen of "flashy" news items. a higher margin that puts you in a better position among the running IPOs would be in your interest, no? once eefrit goes beyond your 5%, you will be the least performing among the "larger" IPOs (we need an index for these ^^). and how would a news item regarding these loans look... -
Jakolb	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Roemy Schneider once eefrit goes beyond your 5%, you will be the least performing among the "larger" IPOs (we need an index for these ^^). and how would a news item regarding these loans look... If you are in on FIN, where as FIN-U are the other side of 7%
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Roemy Schneider i find this lack of awareness disturbing; loaning money to yourself for (question not answered) presumably 10% in order to squeeze way more profitable ventures into the minimum yield is a contradiction of interest, which was "Going Public". in other words, you are withholding profit from the owners of ISS. this public ISS is what you sold us - not delivering by diverting profit to numbered esoterian bank accounts is stealing. not paying out these exceeding profits is a breach of the business plan and thus follows the definition of scam. ISS has always been so keen of "flashy" news items. a higher margin that puts you in a better position among the running IPOs would be in your interest, no? once eefrit goes beyond your 5%, you will be the least performing among the "larger" IPOs (we need an index for these ^^). and how would a news item regarding these loans look... i am amazed. you didnt even read there ipo did you? Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.04 15:46:00 - [10] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/07/2007 15:46:56 i believe you overread the "in excess of 10%" mentioned on page two, last paragraph before the index (exlpained, what would be done on that level) and then you might want to try the shareholder meeting (try 21:44:44) -
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.04 16:03:00 - [11] The share holder meeting was to assuere peopel that isso woud proform well even tho they where gonna buy up the old outpost holding corperations for cheep. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.04 16:39:00 - [12] glad, i could deepen your knowledge about your portfolio -
Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.04 18:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Roemy Schneider i find this lack of awareness disturbing; loaning money to yourself for (question not answered) presumably 10% in order to squeeze way more profitable ventures into the minimum yield is a contradiction of interest, which was "Going Public". in other words, you are withholding profit from the owners of ISS. this public ISS is what you sold us - not delivering by diverting profit to numbered esoterian bank accounts is stealing. not paying out these exceeding profits is a breach of the business plan and thus follows the definition of scam. ISS has always been so keen of "flashy" news items. a higher margin that puts you in a better position among the running IPOs would be in your interest, no? once eefrit goes beyond your 5%, you will be the least performing among the "larger" IPOs (we need an index for these ^^). and how would a news item regarding these loans look... Nice twist you try to put here. When I say "related to ISS", they arent ISS right? They are friends I gave a loan to, like I gave out loans to other people that approached me as well.... As long as I get my 10% interest (to answer your question) and collateral, there is no difference between someone that shot me yesterday, or a friend. What you acuse me off is cowpoo. Stins, ISS Finance Director
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.04 23:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Roemy Schneider glad, i could deepen your knowledge about your portfolio Erm in case you are woundering you havnt tught me a singel thing. you missed where the profit goes in the ipo on page like 2 Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.05 00:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Roemy Schneider (iow, if it's just 10%, there's no hope for a proper dividend from that item either) I'm going to assume that you are concerned that various friendly corporations are getting favorable rates that may or may not be in the best interest of the shareholders? If so you may be overlooking that management is utilizing what contacts it has to continue the growth of its business. This may mean that there are some less than superb interest rates, less than you might feel confident with, but still well within profitable margins. Friendship with a business partners is not a crime nor is giving slightly favorable terms either. Business is in the business of trade. Isk is not the only medium thereof. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Shar Tegral> Well someone please say something quotable for this month!!!!
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.05 00:53:00 - [16] forgive me, stins, for i am slow. i was still following your definition from two months ago: Originally by: Stins Regarding "private businesses", ISSO loaned cash to several entities that are part of ISS, corps or persons. They work exactly the same as when I loan out cash to an entity that isnt related to ISS. They pay 10% interest each month, that's it. as a follow up to Originally by: Stins Some of these loans also went into private businesses inside ISS. alas, you ignored inquiries from last month and i am still carrying this around. suddenly redefining things when they become unpleasant is indeed "cowpoo". @ lilan: having ISS in your corp history, even if only a month, i can fully understand you're trying to shoot down opposition. maybe it has been policy inside ISS to never achieve anything beyond 5% dividend. it is true; 5% were all that was guaranteed. but ISSO has never been a bond and the projections have always gone beyond 10%, where the shareholders benefit again. -
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:22:00 - [17] okay so you also lack reading comprehension if you think i was in iss for 1 month. again go read the ipo you stil dont get it aprently Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Prodigal Caldari New Genesis Project	Posted - 2007.07.07 02:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Stins balance sheet ------------- Assets 21102 shares in wallet 116,3 bn ISK loans 93,7 bn ISK industrial assets (BPOs, inventory, POS) 0,45 bn ISK trade assets/market orders 43,6 bn ISK shopping baskets 32,9 bn ISK cash ---------- 288,9 bill ISK Liabilities 28898 shares outstanding 10 Misk per share IPO price ------------ 288,9 bill ISK It would be interesting to see how much of the assets are BPOs/POS (Equipment)/Inventory?
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.07.07 07:18:00 - [19] I signed on for 5% every month. If it ever goes over that then it's a bonus. Sure, if ISSO didn't lose the stations they'd prob be well over 10% from the first month or two, but nothing can be done about that. It would be great if it starts paying more than 5%. Might even have to buy up more shares if it does. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.07 09:09:00 - [20] I am bloody impressed. Almost at 10%. Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan.
Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.07 11:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Prodigal Originally by: Stins balance sheet ------------- Assets 21102 shares in wallet 116,3 bn ISK loans 93,7 bn ISK industrial assets (BPOs, inventory, POS) 0,45 bn ISK trade assets/market orders 43,6 bn ISK shopping baskets 32,9 bn ISK cash ---------- 288,9 bill ISK Liabilities 28898 shares outstanding 10 Misk per share IPO price ------------ 288,9 bill ISK It would be interesting to see how much of the assets are BPOs/POS (Equipment)/Inventory? Blueprints: 82B POS equipment: 270M Inventory: 11,5B Inventory = minerals, T2 components, POS fuel etc etc, basically everything we use to feed our production lines (except the bps obviously :)) POS equipment is only a few modules, the tower is owned by one of our guys on the team. Stins, ISS Finance Director
Prodigal Caldari New Genesis Project	Posted - 2007.07.07 12:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Stins balance sheet ------------- Assets 21102 shares in wallet 116,3 bn ISK loans 93,7 bn ISK industrial assets (BPOs, inventory, POS) 0,45 bn ISK trade assets/market orders 43,6 bn ISK shopping baskets 32,9 bn ISK cash ---------- 288,9 bill ISK Liabilities 28898 shares outstanding 10 Misk per share IPO price ------------ 288,9 bill ISK Thanks for the details on the assets btw..... I hope this doesn't sound too silly but.... What exactly are "shopping baskets"?
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.07 13:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Prodigal I hope this doesn't sound too silly but.... What exactly are "shopping baskets"? Preset packages of tech 2 goodies. A number of billion isk worth of modules, ammo and ships are bought at empire prices and then delivered to remote locations for resale at a profit. I imagine by now they have a firm grasp of what sells and what doesn't and are tailoring shopping baskets based on that. I'd expect ISSO's performance to steadily increase over time. Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.07.08 01:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Prodigal I hope this doesn't sound too silly but.... What exactly are "shopping baskets"? Preset packages of tech 2 goodies. A number of billion isk worth of modules, ammo and ships are bought at empire prices and then delivered to remote locations for resale at a profit. I imagine by now they have a firm grasp of what sells and what doesn't and are tailoring shopping baskets based on that. I'd expect ISSO's performance to steadily increase over time. Indeed. The fact that they hit nearly 10% so quickly after their massive misfortune shows that they are doing quite well. If they do hit 15%+ eventually I'd be surprised... considering how lucrative their idea is. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.08 03:24:00 - [25] ...and considering they could just outsource a shopping basket to some ISS guy with aloan and just dump the 10% interest in the ISSO -
Prodigal Caldari New Genesis Project	Posted - 2007.07.08 04:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Stins Our main markets stay very stable and demand is high. We actually had allmost no items on the market when I made our inventory check, so demand is high enough to expand. My questions regarding the baskets was actually in response to this statement. I do not really understand what Shadarle and Roemy are talking about right above, however, if the baskets are essentially goods that are on the market in 0.0 or waiting in Empire to be delivered to 0.0, they are still essentially trade assets/market orders. Stins, I hope you dont misread my intention here. I was pretty impressed how you guys essentially pulled a rabbit our of your arses with the "Travelling Caravan" scheme and made the best of a pretty ****ty situation. Your report is pretty informative, almost as good as Alewins here. I look forward to watching this develop.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.08 10:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Roemy Schneider ...and considering they could just outsource a shopping basket to some ISS guy with aloan and just dump the 10% interest in the ISSO Originally by: Stins By the way, we stopped loaning out isk, because in the past, it was a good way to secure a part of our profits, but now we are at a point, where we easily can make more money in other fields as in loans, and also have the manpower to do so. So no more loans are given out at this moment. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.08 17:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Stins indeed, new record in loans... -
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.08 18:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Roemy Schneider they could just outsource a shopping basket to some ISS guy with aloan Originally by: Stins no more loans are given out at this moment. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.08 19:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Nyphur [...]The distinction between ISS and ISSO is very important.[...] well and what keeps them from handing out loans as soon as a project goes beyond 10%. for example, if they decided to keep 30% profit ( generated by... say... large scale rig production) out of the reports, they could just loan some guy in ISS money for a month's buy orders' materials. he then just pays 10% to the ISSO, and the owners get only the bare minimum, while some ISS entity runs away with the other 25%. this is a basic conflict of interest and, as i said, it is disturbing how matter-of-course this is being handled. the ISSO sale had "going public" written all over it and we invested in that. this goes across three of the first paragraphs in the PDF Quote: [...]We are selling shares in ISS itelf - we are going public with the alliance. for the ISS it is a logical step™ and we believe it is the first time a player driven entity in any MMO become truly community owned. You can be part of this unique Venture in EVE-Online. The buyers of these shares become owners of the alliance[...] even the (non-existant) outposts got dumped on us - without an ISSO vote, but hey... so yes; it is safe to say we own ISS. if that was never the intention, then it was sold under false pretense and it's a scam. (and i try to avoid throwing the s-word around) the ISSO corp and shares etc are just a means like all the other corps/alts run their bonds and/or IPOs etc. everything the ISS does has to end up in the ISSO - loans to ISS members/corps/entitites has to stop. -
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:16:00 - [31] I think the important thing to remember is that as long as they pay out the 5% minimum monthly dividend, it really doesn't matter what they do. Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2007.07.08 21:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Nyphur I think the important thing to remember is that as long as they pay out the 5% minimum monthly dividend, it really doesn't matter what they do. Not really. The 5% is minimum. You could argue if they don't break that then it's bad management. And Roemy does have a point with the loans, saying the could always fob off more profitable ventures (that bring in 20% profit) as 10% loans. \| Free Research On BS BPOs \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.09 02:35:00 - [33] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Nyphur I think the important thing to remember is that as long as they pay out the 5% minimum monthly dividend, it really doesn't matter what they do. Not really. The 5% is minimum. You could argue if they don't break that then it's bad management. And Roemy does have a point with the loans, saying the could always fob off more profitable ventures (that bring in 20% profit) as 10% loans. The 5% isn't a minimum in the classic sense. from 0% to 5% goes to dividends, from 5% to 10% goes to management and from 10% upward goes to venture projects, which add to dividend isk. I will agree that it's important that ISS correctly reports so that people know when they break 10%, but not paying more than 5% until then is absolutely no reflection on business performance. Roemy's argument is perfectly valid, I didn't rea;lly understand that until you explained it. I suppose that is a more important concern now that ISSO is finally reaching the 10% mark and dividends should be increasing soon. Eve-Tanking.com - Nobody reads this slogan.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.09 07:30:00 - [34] o_O and i've been mentioning that for 3 months now... and he can do it one sentence? runs for auntie ionia's bosom -
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.11 17:13:00 - [35] bump
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:22:00 - [36] weekend bump for an ISS reply
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.13 21:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Broegitte Bardot weekend bump for an ISS reply Perhaps you could just mail Stins with your questions. Or post them again, maybe? All I see is you bumping someone else's thread and I'm a little confused to be honest. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.13 23:15:00 - [38] Edited by: Broegitte Bardot on 13/07/2007 23:17:26 Edited by: Broegitte Bardot on 13/07/2007 23:16:08 there's still the contradiction: Originally by: Roemy Schneider forgive me, stins, for i am slow. i was still following your definition from two months ago: Originally by: Stins Regarding "private businesses", ISSO loaned cash to several entities that are part of ISS, corps or persons. They work exactly the same as when I loan out cash to an entity that isnt related to ISS. They pay 10% interest each month, that's it. as a follow up to Originally by: Stins Some of these loans also went into private businesses inside ISS. alas, you ignored inquiries from last month and i am still carrying this around. suddenly redefining things when they become unpleasant is indeed "cowpoo". ... then stins gradually moved from: Originally by: Stins indeed, new record in loans... 40B isk is loaned out to ISS related entities, but I am not sure why that is different as loaning out money to entities not related with ISS? to Quote: When I say "related to ISS", they arent ISS right? They are friends I gave a loan to, like I gave out loans to other people that approached me as well. it seems there's the consensus here to stop these ISS loans. i'm interested to see that confirmed and i'm sure the other investors are, too. i doubt they'll climb down from their high horse to compensate for the past three or four months this topic has been on the table. but one can dream.
Thetis Caldari NewDawn	Posted - 2007.07.14 10:07:00 - [39] Personally; I am a bit confused, and have been for a time. "We are selling shares in ISS itself - we are going public with the alliance" - IPO Document. And yet I keep hearing: "you must remember to differentiate between ISSO & ISS" If the corp truly went public, then I, as a shareholder, want a slice of every profit that every member of the alliance earns. If not, i'd like an apology for falsely advertising the ISSO IPO as buying into ISS. It was actually creating a new entity within ISS.
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.07.14 16:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Thetis Personally; I am a bit confused, and have been for a time. "We are selling shares in ISS itself - we are going public with the alliance" - IPO Document. And yet I keep hearing: "you must remember to differentiate between ISSO & ISS" If the corp truly went public, then I, as a shareholder, want a slice of every profit that every member of the alliance earns. If not, i'd like an apology for falsely advertising the ISSO IPO as buying into ISS. It was actually creating a new entity within ISS. I'm having trouble believing that you or anyone else was genuinely confused by this. Who could possibly have believed that they were really buying a share in the personal wallets of every player in the ISS alliance? We all live in a marketing-saturated world, and I'm sure we were all capable of differentiating between the hyperbole of marketing-speak and the reality of the game-mechanics. And while the loans have been providing a rate of return higher than the overall average for the business, there's not really much to complain about IMO. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.14 20:36:00 - [41] ISS provides these reports as a gratuity to their investors. New investments in ISS are not availible at the moment, ISS offer no buyback policy that I am aware of so investors can't pull out and I don't think ISS will need another IPO for something in the future. There are simply no consequences to not providing any reports. I say investors should be thankful for what they've got. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.14 21:25:00 - [42] that is not entire correct - there's loads of "new" investments available; the IPO was aiming for 500bil after all. reports keep building trust, which would have sold more shares. if we knew more about the investment, we could've understood the meager performance _after_ the nomadic months. if they hadn't passed loans to themselves, i'm positive we would have enjoyed more than the magic 5%. this would have led to at least believe in the capabilities of ISS - and the purchase of a few more shares. all these "noble" aims of populating 0.0? "creating wealth with the sharesholders"? appear to be lies. and from my point of view, they pull down everybody who was soooo eager to vouch for them.
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.15 03:39:00 - [43] Originally by: Broegitte Bardot that is not entire correct - there's loads of "new" investments available; the IPO was aiming for 500bil after all. reports keep building trust, which would have sold more shares. if we knew more about the investment, we could've understood the meager performance _after_ the nomadic months. if they hadn't passed loans to themselves, i'm positive we would have enjoyed more than the magic 5%. this would have led to at least believe in the capabilities of ISS - and the purchase of a few more shares. all these "noble" aims of populating 0.0? "creating wealth with the sharesholders"? appear to be lies. and from my point of view, they pull down everybody who was soooo eager to vouch for them. What a silly post, conflating all sorts of different issues and asserting things that are simply false. If you don't like ISS, then don't invest in ISS. But stop whining about getting your 5% every month. It's tiresome and pointless.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.07.15 03:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Broegitte Bardot that is not entire correct - there's loads of "new" investments available; the IPO was aiming for 500bil after all. But didn't they stop accepting investments? Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.15 06:08:00 - [45] lol... that's one way to put it... when the stock exchanges broker your shares for 70-90%, you might aswell make it look like the lack of share sales was intentional. heck, even some 5mil buy orders went through. sure; it's pointless to complain, and i doubt we'll get much out of it. i trusted them, they screwed us over, fine - just want illustrate for future investors that behind these cosmetics of colorful euphemisms, flashy EVE news and big names as underwriters, there's still nothing but the "minimum" 5%. and always will be if they keep loaning to themselves. -
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.07.15 23:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Roemy Schneider sure; it's pointless to complain, and i doubt we'll get much out of it. i trusted them, they screwed us over, fine - just want illustrate for future investors that behind these cosmetics of colorful euphemisms, flashy EVE news and big names as underwriters, there's still nothing but the "minimum" 5%. and always will be if they keep loaning to themselves. Well if you read the prospectus, followed the EVE politics that affected ISS shortly after the IPO, and then watched t2 prices after Invention and were still expecting the business to earn over 10% a month then you were living in a dreamworld. And I repeat; while the return on the loans (10%) is higher than the average return for the business as a whole then investors have not, could not have, lost anything. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.17 03:05:00 - [47] the nomadic month was january, maybe a bit of february, and we fully understood the struggle. however, it's been roughly five months since then... and what do t2 prices have to do with ISS performance? - t2 production was never listed in the business plan. granted, the so-called shopping baskets may have lost value initially. but you have to admit; where one sold a cap recharger II for 22-24mil after getting it for 20mil, you can now sell it for 5mil while only paying 3mil. 2 mil profit in both cases; just now way more demand due to lower prices. NPC stuff (skillbooks e.a.) hasn't changed so that profit should be unchanged. and t2 ingredients went through the roof; their moons should at least earn 50% more than six months ago. capital market may be full of suppliers and their prices are barely competitive, but there's still profit in it beyond 10% (especially with an 'old' zydrine stash). rigs are rather new and the market kind of "settled down". for the amount of investment, it can deliver great and stable returns. this isn't dreamland at all. t2 isn't everything and certainly doesn't explain everything. on the contrary: unless they forgot to sync the shopping baskets with null-sec demand for five months, i don't see a reason not to have hit the 10% hurdle weeks ago. and as ray was so kind to confirm; the loans can be used to pull down the average return: they keep the low-profit businesses in ISSO, hand out 10% loans and some other iss entity produces 20-30% profit from that - but doesn't pass that on to the investors. the way they're handling this, it could be done with any venture aiming for >10%. in short; insider-loans cripple the return. with the little reports we get, this the only hint of an explanation for <10% official profits. -
Mark Weston Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:09:00 - [48] Edited by: Mark Weston on 17/07/2007 10:10:18 Originally by: Roemy Schneider the nomadic month was january, maybe a bit of february, and we fully understood the struggle. however, it's been roughly five months since then... You're mis-remembering the timeline. January was when they were pushed out of Catch. February/March they were in Tenerifis, and March/April they were in Geminate, before finally settling down wherever the hell it is they are now in May. IIRC (prolly someone who was in ISS at that time can render it a bit more accuratly). It's not been five months. Quote: and what do t2 prices have to do with ISS performance? - t2 production was never listed in the business plan. granted, the so-called shopping baskets may have lost value initially. but you have to admit; where one sold a cap recharger II for 22-24mil after getting it for 20mil, you can now sell it for 5mil while only paying 3mil. Multiple 50 bil shopping baskets were in retrospect a massive bet on the stability of the t2 market, which they (and we) lost. Clearly there are still profits in t2 trading, as long as you have a small fast-moving inventory. ISSO's inventory was neither of those things. I'm a little surprised they didn't incur heavy losses tbh. Quote: and as ray was so kind to confirm; the loans can be used to pull down the average return: they keep the low-profit businesses in ISSO, hand out 10% loans and some other iss entity produces 20-30% profit from that - but doesn't pass that on to the investors. the way they're handling this, it could be done with any venture aiming for >10%. in short; insider-loans cripple the return. To repeat myself a second time, the reported total profits of the business have been slowly rising to this month's 9.6%. The return on the loans is 10%. These basic facts just do not fit your theory. The loans have been raising the overall profit not lowering it. It is perfectly possible that if ISSO's other business were doing better then the loans would be holding the average profits down, but (if we trust the figures we're given) that hasn't happened yet. New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:44:00 - [49] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 17/07/2007 11:52:30 yes, but again: this would be the case following the premise that all ISS business takes place under the roof of ISSO. this concept was sold to us, yes. however, the pure existence of loans to ISS entities proves that to be a lie. so 20-30%-profit-making ventures can take place elsewhere and the ISSO is left with the crappy stuff that produces (way) below 10% and the interest for said loans instead of harboring these profitable ventures, which are being run on our money aswell. "a massive bet on the stability of the t2 market"? is this how you trade? i'm running ~45bil shopping baskets alone (i.e. 1 char) and the worst thing that happened wasn't the hulk, the cov ops cloak or any other t2 item. it was the LP store appearing on sisi while i was still sitting on a few connection skillbooks and +5 imps. and having followed ISS' activities for the past couple of months, their philosophy doesn't differ from mine (the shopping baskets do, yes). and now you're telling me the great ISS with dozens of chars perform worse? time for an IPO, i guess... the april report mentioned them being settled again and i remember clearly to have seen those ISS dots in esoteria weeks earlier. this far back, the territorial maps just have the monthly summeries aswell. so we can argue about the 5; but >4 months is certain. lots of time to recover. and i'm living in a dreamworld...? -
Broegitte Bardot	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:38:00 - [50] bump still no word about the future of those cheesy loans
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:41:00 - [51] weekend bump - putting the gist back into logistics

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