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You know what really grinds my gears ?

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:22:00 - [1] Developers changing stuff and not documenting the changes. If it's the tiniest of change, we want to know about it. We want to know WHAT you tweaked, why you tweaked it, and most importantly HOW MUCH you tweaked it. Keep a notepad .txt or something, just /cat them all and dump'em somewhere public or something like that. Promises made long ago, stuff we loved hearing about, promises that were not kept and stuff that never came out. Where's the EVE-Wiki ? Even an EMPTY wiki which WE would have to fill from nearly zero would go a long way. What's with the EVE-Documentation project ? Was it shelved ? When ? Why ? If not, what's the progress ? Need for speed ? Uh. Right. Maybe. But at the same time, so many extra useless bells and whistles that any performace improvements are more than invalidated, practically speaking. Oh well, guess you can't both eat and still ave your old cookie and then also both eat and have the new cookies. But, argh, angry noises... Community managers not managing the community, and public relations not doing any. Where's the flogging of devs for new and regularly posted devblogs ? Where's the forum presence in sensitive threads stating what official CCP position towards it is ? Where's the weekly "it's week 26 of 2007 and all is fine except this and that" news items ? Where's, well, THE official permanent CCP presence in the COMMUNITY forums ? Lack of transparency. What are you guys TALKING about internally ? What are your plans, why did you changed your minds whenever you do change your minds, why the delays in addressing critical issues ? I'm looking at you, NOS, Damps, Amarr and Energy turrets... at you, and at many other things. And why can't we KNOW of what you plan, or why can't we participate with feedback ? What's the status of the changes, what's the hold-up, what are the alternatives you're debating, why can't you decide which ones to pick ? Lack of public feedback. I barely ever see a dev respond in the bugs/suggestions areas of the forums. I really couldn't care less if some of you guys DO read those sections, and even if SOME of those ideas you pick there actually do make it into internal meetings. Even "this idea totally sucks for EVE and you should go back play WoW/HelloKitty/PacMan/whatever" is feedback. Bad feedback, but feedback nevertheless. WE WANT FEEDBACK. If you read it, hitting "reply" and posting a short phrase ain't THAT hard, is it ? If you don't read it, why the fudge do we bother posting there ? At least tell us, so we can STOP wasting OUR time. Don't get me wrong, I do love the game, and the only reason I DO whine it's because I feel with minimal extra effort a lot of things would be massively better... yet somehow, "they" seem to miss the point each and every time by "this" much. Yeesh. P.S. It's VERY constructive, not flaming, not mindless ranting. So don't you dare click it. P.P.S. Or whatever, click it, if you have too. Bad karma for you though Mwahahaha evil grin Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Lance Hawke Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:26:00 - [2] You know what really grinds my gears? You whining. I seem to notice it alot.
Lord Zuku The Military	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:28:00 - [3] I have to agree with everything Akita T has written. Hellmar said CCP is turning into a service company. It doesn't look like. The community is being ignored most of the time and it's getting worse with time.
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:30:00 - [4] You know what really grinds my gears? Posts like this. ----------
Lord Zuku The Military	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:30:00 - [5] Originally by: Lance Hawke You know what really grinds my gears? You whining. I seem to notice it alot. What whining? The only person whining is you. It's constructive criticism and it's needed.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:32:00 - [6] You know what really grinds my gears? People who don't understand that this thread will be epic. :D SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:32:00 - [7] There's a difference between constructive criticism and simply splattering a gigantic post with no specific examples in its very own brand new thread. ----------
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:33:00 - [8] you really know what grinds my gears? states and countries that share non-contiguius borders. Recruiting Terrorists
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:33:00 - [9] You know what really grinds my gears? Shuttles. Their tanking sucks. Sucks, I tell you. SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Jimer Lins You know what really grinds my gears? Shuttles. Their tanking sucks. Sucks, I tell you. unless assigned templar's an amarr fighter used by carriers. Recruiting Terrorists

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:43:00 - [11] You know what really grinds my gears? The Correct Dread. Especially when supported by shuttles (which unfortunately can't tank very well) controlling Templars, Amarr fighters used by carriers. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:45:00 - [12] what really grinds my gears? the gears grinding each other!!! runs -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Vitrael Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:46:00 - [13] You know what really grinds my gears? Post that use too many smilies. ----------
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:48:00 - [14] *You whining. I seem to notice it alot.* Why, thank you. (sarcastic) *People who don't understand that this thread will be epic.* and *What whining? The only person whining is you. It's constructive criticism and it's needed.* Why, thank you. (non-sarcastic) *There's a difference between constructive criticism and simply splattering a gigantic post with no specific examples in its very own brand new thread.* So, how much more SPECIFIC do you want the examples to be ? There's a charater limit to posts, you know ? *states and countries that share non-contiguius borders.* Please leave real-world geography out of it, thank you Even if, truth be told, it grinds my gears too. *Shuttles. Their tanking sucks. Sucks, I tell you.* You haven't tried shuttles tanking 10/10 plexes, L4 missions, nor POSes post rev2.0, have you ? Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Sebastien LaForge	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:51:00 - [15] You know what really grinds my gears? Lack of Oil and rust.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:53:00 - [16] Edited by: Winterblink on 03/07/2007 19:51:58 Regarding an EVE Wiki, I give you EVE Wiki. It's not empty, but feel free to contribute. Patch notes; they've got a lot better with detailed patch notes. Perfect? No, but a hell of a lot better. Promises; Yeah I can see your point on this, some revisting of old ideas in a dev blog would be fine. Community managers; I think they're doing fine to be honest. I'd rather they didn't post in what you refer to as "sensitive threads" until they had something worth posting, to be honest. Transparency; They're already the most transparent game dev I've seen to date. Lack of public feedback; To some extent I agree. But I'd rather have the developers working on things than constantly whoring the forums. The fact that they're here at all actively posting WITHOUT having to pass their responses through a community PR drone for review is refreshing. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Akita T Developers changing stuff and not documenting the changes. This is simply not possible, major changes can be easily documented, but if someone realizes that the guy who wrote the XYZ mission forget to put a space between the and ship (theship) and changes it, he should not have to log it. Why? Its inconsquential, and a waste of manhours. Quote: Promises made long ago, stuff we loved hearing about, promises that were not kept and stuff that never came out. This is the same as any other company, people live beyond their means in terms of content. CCP dev's will all sit around their round conference room table and brainstorm ideas for content. The really good ones get handed to the PR guys who write it up in the dev blogs to get the playerbase all riled up and happy. When the ideas get down to the people who actually have to code/implement these things, they laugh their happy little Icelandic butts off and toss it in the waste bin as either (1) a threat to the balance of the game (2) coding nightmare (3) physically and psychologically impossible. Quote: Community managers not managing the community, and public relations not doing any. Every minute they waste responding to every other thread about how much this content stinks, or allegations that BoB was founded by Oveur's second cousin in Norway, and backed by Dutch midgets in spandex, they'd get no work done. I'd rather see results sooner than have them tell me "We're working on it." and have it show up later. Stop asking them to hold your hand. Quote: Lack of transparency. "Lets post our trade secrets on the website so our players don't stop thinking we care. Oh, while we're at it, lets list all those macro mining accounts we banned, along with their home address, credit card numbers and bust sizes." Quote: Lack of public feedback. They respond as any representative of a company would; clearly and politically correct. They will not post in threads where players are fighting with each other, because someone will scream favouritism. They will not post in suggestion threads because it will convey the message that the idea will be implemented as-is. Players are sheep, if they see that the developers are paying attention they will harass and heckle the poor buggers to the point they just ghost the forums.
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:00:00 - [18] I agree on the EVE-Wiki actually. Every other MMOG has one. EVE needs one too really. These days it's embarrassing for a MMOG not to have one. NERF AMARR!
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:07:00 - [19] how about you let them get on with the game, i couldnt care less about up to the minute posts about the progress % of whatever feature, im more interested when its ready to be implemented and in patch notes. As for so called critical issues like damps/amarr/nos you mention, imho their only critical issues with people like yourself you self proclaim them to be critical issues from nothing more than your own biased viewpoint. The eve-wiki, whats stopping someone else making one if its needed so badly? Basically you need to wind your neck in m8, not sure who you think you are, but your definatly not someone that has, or should have any reason to make such demands on the devs/gm's. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Xtro 2 The eve-wiki, whats stopping someone else making one if its needed so badly? Read my post above. :P In summary, related to your point: http://www.eve-wiki.net warp drive active \| nature vraie

Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:14:00 - [21] You know what really grinds my gears? Sorry, couldnt resist! _______________________________________________ It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers s
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Xtro 2 The eve-wiki, whats stopping someone else making one if its needed so badly? Read my post above. :P In summary, related to your point: http://www.eve-wiki.net awesome. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder.
AegriSomnia Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:34:00 - [23] You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Carneys. Thats right. Carneys. Originally by: grayson 34 Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
Sebastien LaForge	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:35:00 - [24] You know what really grinds me gears? Not using the clutch.
William Alex Viscosity Dark Synergy	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:38:00 - [25] Seriously chill, CCP's been doing a good job, and it shows. Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:48:00 - [26] As a general answer to all those here acclaiming the great job CCP does, and the "justifiers" on behalf of EVE devs... Yes, CCP's doing a good job, better as most other MMOs out there, and probably better as any "serious" MMO out there. Still, that doesn't mean they do everything perfectly (it's impossible), or that they should not be doing better as they do now. There are small things listed in the OP that wouldn't really require a LOT of effort, yet have a very big positive impact. THAT is what grinds my gears. Sure, feel free to explain how all of the OP issues would require really, really MASSIVE amounts of manhours, but that doesn't mean you have a clue about the actual effort required to do so. Meanwhile, my guess is as good as yours, and my guess is that it's a lot lower as you seem to think. As for the EVE-Wiki, I am sure it's a wonderful player initiative. However, it's no match for a CCP hosted, moderated EVE Wiki, with some EVE-dev contributions here and there. I somewhat doubt either of the above conditions are met. Don't make the mistake of thinking I said EVE is bad, or that Devs are lousy, not even that I might have said something akin to "player hosted eve wiki is useless". BECAUSE I DIDN'T. And that too, grinds my gears, when people go ahead and claim such things. Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
tiewan	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:48:00 - [27] I know how it is to want more information and interaction from devs, but every minute they spend posting responses to people demanding a response is not spent doing their job... developing the game.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:51:00 - [28] And you are also impecably confident of the fact they do spend every waking minute of the day at the office working on the game, improving things, and not reading the forums, having a friendly chat, playing the game or generally goofing off every once in a while. Because, well, that's what YOU do at the office all day long too, right ? Char creation guide \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Brian Kwok	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 03/07/2007 19:51:58 Regarding an EVE Wiki, I give you EVE Wiki. It's not empty, but feel free to contribute. Patch notes; they've got a lot better with detailed patch notes. Perfect? No, but a hell of a lot better. Promises; Yeah I can see your point on this, some revisting of old ideas in a dev blog would be fine. Community managers; I think they're doing fine to be honest. I'd rather they didn't post in what you refer to as "sensitive threads" until they had something worth posting, to be honest. Transparency; They're already the most transparent game dev I've seen to date. Lack of public feedback; To some extent I agree. But I'd rather have the developers working on things than constantly whoring the forums. The fact that they're here at all actively posting WITHOUT having to pass their responses through a community PR drone for review is refreshing. /signed 100%
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.07.03 20:56:00 - [30] Originally by: AegriSomnia You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Carneys. Thats right. Carneys. Carnies get me wet. All that body odour, sweat...



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