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Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 04:15:00 -
[1]
Adding support for a new UI option (Sub interface allowing more control of the ship), thus allowing in any frigate class ship to pilot in the view from*****pit by either keyboard, joystick or mouse. Adding more to what frigates can already be. Allowing a more intuned form of combat and manuverability.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.22 04:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 04:36:45
Not possible, I direct you to...
The Jovian Wet Grave
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 05:04:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 04:36:45
Not possible, I direct you to...
The Jovian Wet Grave
Ok neat...a story, and how it is not possible? Having done game design I'm not seeing the issue? Even if it was'nt "pilots view" but camera or something of the sort, a battle view for combat piloting instead of overhead poor control would be better in my opinion, aswell as breathing more life into frigates and the soon Elite frigates.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.22 05:41:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 05:43:06
The story is set up for the current style, so if they changed the camera style, they would have to develop new technology...
The bridge is the control pod.
You can't have too many directional updates (to keep data transfer low), so they wouldn't stray from the double click/command method of controling ships.
Another article: Camera Drones
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:01:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Infection on 22/01/2004 06:02:48
Quote:
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 05:43:06
The story is set up for the current style, so if they changed the camera style, they would have to develop new technology...
The bridge is the control pod.
You can't have too many directional updates (to keep data transfer low), so they wouldn't stray from the double click/command method of controling ships.
Another article: Camera Drones
Even so, they are designing the game, the simple tech if it must be could simply be a nose camera drone...
Everything is far from impossible, even if it took an aditional skill to use something as such. It is an idea and saying impossible without even thinking of ways to make it possible is being rather closed minded.
(I dont see the small increase in bandwidth to be that big of a deal.)
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Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Infection on 22/01/2004 06:08:54
If you want to think about it, it will just steal from other online communities by adding a "Sim" perspective on the game thus allowing the player more control over his own actions. I think anything that may have a potential player base increase would be a smart move in marketing. It works both for CCP and the Players.
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Mallus Kulov
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mallus Kulov on 22/01/2004 06:15:55
It would be fun as hell. More reason to bring jumpgate players or other like minded space sim fans over to eve.
And the "technology" wouldnt be too hard. You just lock the camera in place. remove the ship for viewing out the*****pit, or show ship when selecting external cam...and code in support for .mouse, keyboard or joystick.... the catch would be the weapons... do you code it so you select a target with mouse or just lock weapons forward as the above mentioned sims.
Imo, this should take < month to code and 2 months test and improvement. But theres far more advertised content they need to implement first.
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Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:16:00 -
[8]
Quote:
It would be fun as hell. More reason to bring jumpgate players or other like minded space sim fans over to eve.
Exactly, bigger player base, more fun, More money CCP makes, more staff, more staff = more/better updates, and let alone it enhances the games capabilities. 
( Adding flavor such in the likes of this would bring in a much larger player base aswell as increasing the gameplay value. )
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 06:22:52
They aren't planning on adding keyboard/joystick controls though. Like I said, too much data transfer.
Though some people had the idea to be able to lock the camera drones, which would let you make a nose view.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 06:26:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 06:22:52
They aren't planning on adding keyboard/joystick controls though. Like I said, too much data transfer.
Though some people had the idea to be able to lock the camera drones, which would let you make a nose view.
Heh, If the crappy game called Earth and Beyond can do it on the same player scale, why cant Eve? The bandwidth increase wouldnt be much and the data input handling code could be writen to co-exist with the existing EVE client engine. If care to think about it, you'll realize you can double click to change ship position, part of the system is already there.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.22 07:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 07:45:21
E&B could barely handle it. It had ~20 sectors to manage, and could only support ~3000 players per shard. 
The lag was horrible when there were more than 2000 players in one shard.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 08:04:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Edited by: Xailia on 22/01/2004 07:45:21
E&B could barely handle it. It had ~20 sectors to manage, and could only support ~3000 players per shard.
The lag was horrible when there were more than 2000 players in one shard.
E&B wasnt designed per System like Eve is, let alone the rarity of seeing 2000 people in one system in Eve, are you familier with load balancing? I mean consider this, if doom1 could transfer the equyv. data over serial under a tiny tiny baud rate (low speed) whats to say you couldnt have just as simple of a ship location agrangment system such as that? You also should consider its already tracking drones, so thats a second part to ship position code, plus another thing you can consider is, not everything is blasted out to the client, only what the client can see per a certain range.
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Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 08:13:00 -
[13]
How about this, instead of arguing on how impossible and what implications the bandwidth increase and database load may be, or whatever else you can think of, how about we get a CCP dev to post their outlook on this concept. While stating facts of why it can or cant work, or even what it would take.
( PS E&B was created rather crappishly, and I am rather familier with it because I to have played it. *hangs head in shame* )
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.22 11:33:00 -
[14]
I think it's more of a client concern than a server one. EVE was designed with low enough bandwidth requirements that people can manage (though not as well as broadband) to play on a 14.4-56k.
They could add more server-side prediction, but then you have the issue of getting your ship reset if you start getting high ping times.
I'm pretty sure the devs have gone over the idea, but I remember them saying back in beta that they had no plans to add keyboard/joystick support for flight.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 11:49:00 -
[15]
Quote:
I think it's more of a client concern than a server one. EVE was designed with low enough bandwidth requirements that people can manage (though not as well as broadband) to play on a 14.4-56k.
They could add more server-side prediction, but then you have the issue of getting your ship reset if you start getting high ping times.
I'm pretty sure the devs have gone over the idea, but I remember them saying back in beta that they had no plans to add keyboard/joystick support for flight.
I would love to see them add a votable area of which the community could decide weither or not it should be eventualy added.
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Starzan
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Posted - 2004.01.22 12:41:00 -
[16]
On the data transfer part: we live in a world where fiber-to-home is almost possible. Average DSL bandwidth is increasing everyday. Lets just say data transfer is no issue if you program it well.
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Darsk'hul
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Posted - 2004.01.22 14:23:00 -
[17]
Quote:
On the data transfer part: we live in a world where fiber-to-home is almost possible. Average DSL bandwidth is increasing everyday. Lets just say data transfer is no issue if you program it well.
Hahahahahaha !  
The problem isn't on the client-side, but on server-side. Assume that EVE average bandwith is 4kB/s (which is very much when the game used well studied information theory concepts ;p) ... now, 6000x4 = 24mB/s in upload ...
it's just a crappy example that doesn't take it account the practical hellish networking issues.
Such a connection is very very very very very very expansive.
__________
No more CEO of Placid Partners Inc.
Contact for this corp is now Yilo.
Freelancer at Lost Order |
Karrde CZ
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Posted - 2004.01.22 15:41:00 -
[18]
Quote:
On the data transfer part: we live in a world where fiber-to-home is almost possible. Average DSL bandwidth is increasing everyday. Lets just say data transfer is no issue if you program it well.
I'd like to know where you live. Because where I'm at, the broadband availability is extremely poor... ...despite it being called the "Internet Capital of the World".
Just cause you live in Silicrapon Valley where every house is networked doesn't mean the rest of the world is build the same way.
Open your eyes before you open your mouth.
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2005.03.23 05:41:55combatYour 720mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Mercenary Fighter, wrecking for 879.0 damage. |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.22 22:34:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
On the data transfer part: we live in a world where fiber-to-home is almost possible. Average DSL bandwidth is increasing everyday. Lets just say data transfer is no issue if you program it well.
Hahahahahaha !
The problem isn't on the client-side, but on server-side. Assume that EVE average bandwith is 4kB/s (which is very much when the game used well studied information theory concepts ;p) ... now, 6000x4 = 24mB/s in upload ...
it's just a crappy example that doesn't take it account the practical hellish networking issues.
Such a connection is very very very very very very expansive.
15 x 6000+ users = 90k/month, can this cover building expenses + what 12? paychecks (4k * 12 = 48k) (4k to 6k building expenses) and a little more connection backbone?
(Leaving around 90k - (48k + 6k) = 36k a month for server upgrades and connection.)
Probably especialy considering they could swap to a burstable backbone as if they didnt already have one, which minimizes cost per users currently using the connection. I could see a justified reason to up the cost of 1 dollar per account to accomodate the bandwidth need if it was "Such a big deal".
The only way I could see the "budget" being crippled by even the consideration of a bandwidth increase is if they were lining their pockets or paying off huge loans of which used to get started in the first place.
I still want to see a dev post on this.
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Karrde CZ
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Posted - 2004.01.23 14:40:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Karrde CZ on 23/01/2004 14:46:26
Quote:
15 x 6000+ users = 90k/month, can this cover building expenses + what 12? paychecks (4k * 12 = 48k) (4k to 6k building expenses) and a little more connection backbone?
(Leaving around 90k - (48k + 6k) = 36k a month for server upgrades and connection.)
6000+ users is very generous. It's more like 15k accounts. So even if all users were only paying $12/mo, that's at least 180 grand a month. Can't remember off the top of my head, but i think an OC-12 runs $45k/mo. Seeing how laggy the server(s) still are, I have doubts they're running anything faster than oc-3.
/me thinks somebody's pocket is filling up pretty good 
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2005.03.23 05:41:55combatYour 720mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Mercenary Fighter, wrecking for 879.0 damage. |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.24 03:43:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Edited by: Karrde CZ on 23/01/2004 14:46:26
Quote:
15 x 6000+ users = 90k/month, can this cover building expenses + what 12? paychecks (4k * 12 = 48k) (4k to 6k building expenses) and a little more connection backbone?
(Leaving around 90k - (48k + 6k) = 36k a month for server upgrades and connection.)
6000+ users is very generous. It's more like 15k accounts. So even if all users were only paying $12/mo, that's at least 180 grand a month. Can't remember off the top of my head, but i think an OC-12 runs $45k/mo. Seeing how laggy the server(s) still are, I have doubts they're running anything faster than oc-3.
/me thinks somebody's pocket is filling up pretty good
Sounds it, but I would love to see a dev comment on this.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.24 04:03:00 -
[22]
Last number I heard was 30k active subscribers. @ $13/mon that's $390k
I think CCP is still paying back what they owe S&SI from the development period.
After that, they only have to pay their server host, and staff, which I think is somewhere between 15-30 people. Could be wrong though.
But we're getting off topic here. 
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Infection
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Posted - 2004.01.24 07:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Infection on 24/01/2004 07:40:41
Quote:
Last number I heard was 30k active subscribers. @ $13/mon that's $390k
I think CCP is still paying back what they owe S&SI from the development period.
After that, they only have to pay their server host, and staff, which I think is somewhere between 15-30 people. Could be wrong though.
But we're getting off topic here.
Yes, and no.
Were trying to deduce if they can afford the bandwidth increase even if its minimal.
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Isikesu Jones
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Posted - 2007.11.28 11:57:00 -
[24]
I think they don't do it for the fact that it will turn EVE into a more twitch-based game. While yes, that could be fun for us space-pilot jockeys, that wouldn't necessarily be good for the player base who prefers to crunch numbers for combat (which seems to be the demographic here.)
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Nachshon
Caldari
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.28 14:36:00 -
[25]
While I prefer the current camera, I would like a system that grants increased control over our ships. One idea would be to allow pilots to specify a direction Star Trek style. Say I want to do a 180. I type "180/0" into the maneuvering window (a new window for this purpose) and my ship turns around.
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Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
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