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NPC Pirate Infestation changes/fixes on Chaos

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TomB	Posted - 2004.01.22 18:00:00 - [1] We have fixed the NPC Pirate warp in/group respawn where they would appear from 0 to 10 KM away from players. They are random in distance from players but it can still happen that they warp in or spawn next to players if they are few spread around the belt, so keep your alert. Also the distribution of the pirate groups around the world has been fixed, here are tiny details on how they are spread: Empire Space: 0.0 - 0.2 in Empire Space now have ~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. 0.3 - 0.4 in Empire Space now have ~15% of having a cruiser or few in groups. Deep Space: The infestation in Deep Space is more randomized than before and more depending on location. Regions next to Empire Space are more safe than before (less pirate strenght) and regions near Pirate Regions are more dangerous, and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. Feel free to test this out on Chaos and post any feedback, both on the lower security Empire Space and in Deep Space. I'm also looking to balance the pirates so test them and post any feedback. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
Kronarty	Posted - 2004.01.22 19:02:00 - [2] Quote: and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. Even worse than they are now in TQ?
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.01.22 19:31:00 - [3] TomB, it sounds like your new system is a more strength gradient system I was hoping for (0.0 can be extremely hard, and as you progress to 1.0 pirates get easier). I like the start of what the changes are and I'll go on Chaos when I can to test the changes. However, I was wondering if you could put a more concrete system in like this: If 0.0 pirates are going to be extremely hard, then 0.1 better have Very high level cruiser spawns(40-85k), 0.2 should have high level cruiser spawns (30-60K), 0.3 should have low level cruiser spawns with frigates (12.5k-30k, 0.4 should have high level frigate spawns with the odd 20k cruiser, 0.5 mid-high level frigates, and so on and so forth. And to go even further with that idea (to spice up low secuirty empire space) see my thread Here. I believe that if you add some rarer minerals, create trade with the stations (they all need X ammount of food, entertainment, medicine, and they need to get rid of X ammount of waste, etc) you will see more and more people venture out to these systems and set up permanent bases, you will also see a huge increase in trade and player pirate activity. In essence what you have created is the true meaning and purpose of the security status, to show that Concord has less control over that area than others. Essentially, low security empire space really begins to feel like its the slums, the red light districts, the drug and crime capitals of the Empire.
NaZguL	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:09:00 - [4] .0 - 0.2 in Empire Space now have ~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. what does that mean ? 0.0 used to have 100% cruiser spawns are u making 0.0 more easy/boring now ? and dont tell me to go to "Pirate Regions " cause i dont know where it is , and probably never will probably locked down systems for pirate/megacorps anyway
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 22/01/2004 20:23:25 Quote: .0 - 0.2 in Empire Space now have ~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. what does that mean ? 0.0 used to have 100% cruiser spawns are u making 0.0 more easy/boring now ? and dont tell me to go to "Pirate Regions " cause i dont know where it is , and probably never will probably locked down systems for pirate/megacorps anyway 0.0 never had 100% cruiser spawns before castor. What the ugly dude means by pirate regions, they are the regions that pirates have sovereignty (err spell), check em out by filtering the map. Also, no region can be locked down, your just listening to too much crap on the forums, you should try going out there. Also when the ugly dude referred to 0.0, he meant empire space, some of them are 0.0 and these havnt had cruisers in them for bloddy ages and ages an ages.
NaZguL	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:26:00 - [6] no there wherent 100% cruiser in 0.0(empire space) before castor , but there are now the drop's from frigate kills are useless garbage not even worth recyclig
Valeria	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:27:00 - [7] Quote: .0 - 0.2 in Empire Space now have ~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. what does that mean ? 0.0 used to have 100% cruiser spawns are u making 0.0 more easy/boring now Probably means the 0.0 systems protected by the empires, ie with security hits and active sentry guns at the stations and gates. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
NaZguL	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:31:00 - [8] BTW TomB there is like a billion fixes/changes on chaos why does it takes months to transfer the changes into a path to TQ ???
NaZguL	Posted - 2004.01.22 20:33:00 - [9] Quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .0 - 0.2 in Empire Space now have ~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. what does that mean ? 0.0 used to have 100% cruiser spawns are u making 0.0 more easy/boring now -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Probably means the 0.0 systems protected by the empires, ie with security hits and active sentry guns at the stations and gates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- yea i know what empire space is , but i dont understand "~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. "
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.22 21:32:00 - [10] Thank you tomB, the moment this change gets on chaos i can do what i like best in this game: Make money with NPC hunting and therefor spend money on PvP. I almost gave up. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.22 21:40:00 - [11] 0.0 systems can also belong to Empire Space, if you check the sovereignity of the solar system you are in or via the map you can see how it's set up. Sorry about the misleading info. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.22 21:46:00 - [12] Quote: yea i know what empire space is , but i dont understand "~50% of having a cruiser or few in groups. " ~50% that a group has cruisers atm, but can be billion in one group So you wanted to test out some boosters?
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.01.22 22:36:00 - [13] Edited by: Kalki Nibiru on 22/01/2004 23:06:09 Edited by: Kalki Nibiru on 22/01/2004 22:37:31 ............. ^^^^ Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
Hakera	Posted - 2004.01.22 23:05:00 - [14] Edited by: Hakera on 22/01/2004 23:32:58 I have been down in curse at J7A-UR - the spawn was 285k Legionarres, 275k Centurions and 615k hunters. Was easy enough to handle by myself - would be a breeze with another BS. Mining ops would be different though - still tough for any miners. Had nothing spawn on top of me yet - which is nice EDIT: a second spawn came after 15mins, they spawned 50k from me and this time was 265k, 255k, 815k. Like it so far! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Zagum Darkfin	Posted - 2004.01.22 23:42:00 - [15] Spawning right on top of you every 10mins is what sucked in Deep Space with the Castor patch. Now if the pirates can warp in like PC pilots, you might have a chance to fight them off at 40k-60k ranges and possibly mine in a belt. I will check it out later. If anything, increase the respawns to 25-30mins.
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.22 23:55:00 - [16] Edited by: dalman on 23/01/2004 00:17:44 Quote: ...and regions near Pirate Regions are more dangerous, and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. Ok. I have some questions about this... (I have not been on chaos to check systems, and don't have time for that) g-me2k (in stain, dead end system with a station) pre-castor had a sec rating of -0.72 and lots of bistot, post-castor has a rating of -0.2, nothing better than gneiss, and 250k battleships. aok-wq (in catch, just above stain) pre-castor was -0.09, with crappy ore and easy pirates. Post-castor there are arkonor and mercoxite, and 500k NPC battleships. c-pewn (as far down in Esoteria you can go, far below stain) pre-castor was -1.0 with lots of bistot and the hardest possible spawns. Same status post-castor, ark, merc and 1 million NPCs. As I read your post, you're changing the way sec rating decides ore and NPCs... Ie, -1.0 does not mean arkonor and 1M NPCs and -0.2 does not mean gneiss and 250k NPCs. So the hardest NPCs will now be in g-me2k, followed by aok, and last c-pewn. While the ore is the other way, best ore in c-pewn followed by aok and last g-me2k. While all logic says that this is how it's supposed to be, with the toughest NPCs in their sovereignty and the best ore as far away as you can go (supposedly the NPCs has mined the best ore), that doesn't really go well with gameplay... Then the only players that will ever see 1M NPCs are the ones going out hunting to get stuff like modulated Tachyons, while miners will travel far to mine arkonor with just some 250k NPCs. At least not until we have player owned stations... Cause with player owned stations it would really be a big reward if you could build a station in a very distant system where the area holds lots of arkonor and the NPCs are just cruisers and some odd 250k battleships. So can you tell us more specificly how hard NPCs are and how good ore are in the "pirate regions" and at different distances from those regions? edit And also... If there are to be ~50% a spawn in 0.0-0.2 empire space will contain cruisers, what is the best ore that will be found in those systems? I'm very curios to know all this, since the Castor patch forced my corp to completely change. We mined all ore we needed ourself in Stain, stripping Veldspar in belts with 5 NPC cruisers (50k +4x30k). One day we even mined out the whole system (9 belts) leaving not a single roid in the system before the downtime (including EVERY hidden roid (some scor roids were 800km away from the belts)), in our attempts to figure out how the roid respawn/growth worked to best avoid the baby roid problem, which were bigger in our HQ than in the 1.0 starting systems... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
AnjinSan	Posted - 2004.01.23 00:24:00 - [17] Edited by: AnjinSan on 23/01/2004 00:27:23 Edited by: AnjinSan on 23/01/2004 00:25:52 Yes I really hope this makes it possible again to make a living farming npc pirates.
Bry I'onak	Posted - 2004.01.23 01:01:00 - [18] Seems live for soloists will be a bit easier, checked some 0.0 systems near empire space (1-3 jumps) and had decent spawns which can easily be done alone. Max number of NPCs was 8, highest 75k, lowest 8.5k in constellations like that: 4x 12k + 2x 35k + 1x 75k 4x 12.5k + 2x 40k + 1x 55k 1x 35k + 2x 12.5k 1x 40k + 2x 10k + 2x 8.5k 2x 40k + 4x 12.5k 2x 40k + 4x 10k + 2x 15k 1x 40k + 2x 10k + 2x 12.5k Still need to check out what's happening when you get deeper into deep space, but it seems they got it quite right this time. Not sure about the spawning either, up to now i had plenty of time to collect the loot without any respawn.
Zeus	Posted - 2004.01.23 01:50:00 - [19] Edited by: Zeus on 23/01/2004 01:51:13 Is there any change to the time between respawns? I'm interested since it was to short before in the outer 0.0 regions for any kind of mining to take place before the next wave appeared and ganked the miners. Also there is no warning either
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.01.23 02:03:00 - [20] Makes a LOT more sense. Please put it in before the weekend ;-)
Stem	Posted - 2004.01.23 05:22:00 - [21] Just got off chaos. Here is the good and bad in my view of the new NPCÆs Type- Serpents Systems visited: Orvolle - 0.4 Oulley - 0.2 PF- 346 - 0.0 BMNV-P to 5-MLDT Testing Ship - MOA GOOD + Great improvement over current live system. + Spawn times seem more reasonable, Non of this insane quick spawning that occurs sometimes + Finally NPC cruisers spawn in empire space properly. + Mining in low sec empire space should be fun. + in 0.2-0.1 space you can get anywhere from 2x 12k + 1x 8.5k to 3x15k + 2x 40k + 1x 55k + Starter 0.0 space seems only slightly harder, more frigate escorts. + 5-MLDT Finally met my match 4x 45k +1x 85k BAD- Still way to easy to solo in a cruiser in empire space. - DoesnÆt look like farming is possible now. - You run into spawns of only Frigates in 0.0 space (even deeper in) - No reason to mine in low sec empire space.(had to through that in) - This is just another nice feature that will sit on chaos for weeks. Wish List A very slim.. maybe 1% chance of a low level BS pirate to spawn in 0.2-0.1 systems. Just for the fear of it, and to blow away unprepared or sleeping farmers/miners :)
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.01.23 06:26:00 - [22] Bring back farming, or at least introduce more ways for Combat characters to make cash. Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2004.01.23 07:13:00 - [23] I agree with dalman, the current situation is really good from an RP point of view. But till we get orecompressors or mob refineries or something like that, it forces every last 0.0 corp to ,mine their commons in empire. Imo not good. As for better spawns in low sec empire, i am against it, simply because it puts risk vs reward a bit more into the favour of empire. Want the goodies, leave empire, that's how it should be.
FZappa	Posted - 2004.01.23 07:17:00 - [24] sweet :) finally something good comes out of the nerf bat ;) -------------------------
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.01.23 10:20:00 - [25] TomB, could you give a little post about my proposed changes, reguarding it being feasible or if something more of what I stated being added in the future (more concrete spawning patterns that I outlined, more rares in low security empire, larger trade demand, etc). Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
Shaqan	Posted - 2004.01.23 10:36:00 - [26] i don't think they should bring back farming, or "sit in a spot randomly pushing the keyboard and get cash-ing". It's great ISK, but now u must move around a bit, which should make it a bit more exciting (what spawn is at the next belt). BTW: I've hunted a little recently, and managed to chain a 0.0 sec spawn once, so there's still a chance :) Sounds like great changes -> move them to TQ please Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know.
Tyria Evenstar	Posted - 2004.01.23 10:36:00 - [27] Quote: And also... If there are to be ~50% a spawn in 0.0-0.2 empire space will contain cruisers, what is the best ore that will be found in those systems? I'd like to know this too. It would be nice if at the least, Gneiss became available in low sec Empire space, with these new spawn changes. -Tyria.
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.23 10:56:00 - [28] Have to have my say also. I've been quite vocal on this subject. I like the changes TomB has mentioned However, there is always a but. At the moment I use to hunt in the loantrek region, around ec-p8r and Ewok-k etc. I went back yesterday, and found a spawn that consisted of 7 moa class Guristas the 55k ones i think. Well i thought i'm 80km out, i lets see what happens. ok opend fire on 1 cruiser, and within 10sec i have over 40 missiles flying at me. Now i'm all for them getting harder, and welcome it as it was too easy before castor. BUT i feel that all NPC ships should conform to the rules by which players have to play. I know that if i was in the same cruiser i would not get a lock from 80km. also with an M12 launcher in 2 slots the max for a moa, one volley of missiles from all of he ships should only give 12 missiles every 12 to 15 secs as an average. so how can in less than 20 secs can i have 40+ missiles coming at me, i suspect it was more but hey i did not stay to count them. I know from others that npc pirates that dont use missiles as their primary weapon are not as bad (though still mad). But this is NOT balanced. Currently a Destructor Gurista Rat 12.5k bounty which is a kestral, running into a spawn of them at 70 had the same result just mooorreee missiles. When i'm in a kestral i cant fire on a ship at 70k out. and also one or two shots from a battleship and i go pop. Not so for the Destructor. This may seen like a whinge, but there is more to the NPC rats balance then just changing distribution, although it goes a big way. Also the power of the rats needs to be addressed. I expect to fear npc battle ships and large cruiser spawns. What i'm saying is, do the changes you suggest. - Deep 0.0 HARDEST - Fringe 0.0 on edge of empire HARD - 0.1 to 0.4 above Average difficulty to average - 0.5 and above well not too hard so that people can practice their skill on npc rats. But also they need to conform to the rules imposed on players, not have some sort of tech 3 launcher that shoots a heavy missile every two secs. Also there needs to be a sense of randomness, it should be possible to come across the odd pirate incursion in 0.1 to 0.3 where there difficulty is harder. And before someone says take a larger fleet to fight the spawns with you, not all of us have the luxury of being in large corps with multiple battlships who have players who are willing to go into 0.0 and fight insane spawns. Anyway, thats my view, and thanks for taking the time to read them.
Floa	Posted - 2004.01.23 11:10:00 - [29] Quote: Deep Space: The infestation in Deep Space is more randomized than before and more depending on location. Regions next to Empire Space are more safe than before (less pirate strenght) and regions near Pirate Regions are more dangerous, and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. Does this mean that the best npc bounties are all moving to deep within alliance-controlled areas??? Unfortunately, my corpmates currently enjoying soloing 500k bs spawns seem to be in the minority, and with the advent of tech2 power diags/cap relays/repairers etc npc hunting will become even easier in the near future. Are we all going to be forced to sneak into supposedly closed regions just to seek out the npc-challenge?? ** Real eyes...realise...real lies. **
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.23 11:17:00 - [30] Quote: BAD- Still way to easy to solo in a cruiser in empire space. - DoesnÆt look like farming is possible now. - You run into spawns of only Frigates in 0.0 space (even deeper in) - No reason to mine in low sec empire space.(had to through that in) - This is just another nice feature that will sit on chaos for weeks. Hunt for a bit longer in 0.0 -0.2 Empire Space, there are many many different groups that can appear in these areas. This nice feature will come next week as a hotfix, so please test and comment more. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
Temerlyn	Posted - 2004.01.23 11:21:00 - [31] can some of the spawn camps be upgraded in strength. I found a Spawn camp in 0.0 space of all places and it had frigate spawns. This was deep in catch getting close to immensia. More spawn camps in 0.0 Space and make them have harder spawns galore. That way combat types can farm and get loot at a place more interesting than an asteroid belt.
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.23 11:26:00 - [32] Pirate battleships will be all around in Deep Space, just from low to very little chance, depending on region. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.23 11:49:00 - [33] A response to the Missile spam, and how it being fixed would be nice TomB. Thanks in advance
Valeria	Posted - 2004.01.23 13:18:00 - [34] Edited by: Valeria on 23/01/2004 13:20:16 I can't get on to check but I hope you did something to balance Guristas with the other factions, preferebly making the others tougher. Also those of you wanting Bship NPCs in empire space... do you really want to have to defend yourself from Bships while mining Kernite or Omber? Sorry but that makes little sense. 50% chance of having cruisers is well enough. Edit: Also consider lowering the shields by 25% for the NPCs that fly at 1km/s+. It's annoying enough that they don't run out of cap, they shouldn't have non-MWD shields also. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Cloudbase	Posted - 2004.01.23 13:44:00 - [35] I'm trying to test the npc's on chaos now but it takes forever to get around to all these areas. Any chance of jump drives or a re-locate feature? Also any plans to upgrade Chaos to increase the max user count and thus increase testing?
Majin Buu	Posted - 2004.01.23 14:11:00 - [36] Quote: I'm trying to test the npc's on chaos now but it takes forever to get around to all these areas. Any chance of jump drives or a re-locate feature? Also any plans to upgrade Chaos to increase the max user count and thus increase testing? ask in eve-chaos for someone to move you BoB KillBoard
ga'ia	Posted - 2004.01.23 14:16:00 - [37] Quote: I'm trying to test the npc's on chaos now but it takes forever to get around to all these areas. Any chance of jump drives or a re-locate feature? Also any plans to upgrade Chaos to increase the max user count and thus increase testing? Ask for a tr and state purpose to a bh and am sure you¦ll get tr:ed __________________________________________________________
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.23 15:50:00 - [38] Quote: ...I went back yesterday, and found a spawn that consisted of 7 moa class Guristas the 55k ones i think. Well i thought i'm 80km out, i lets see what happens. ok opend fire on 1 cruiser, and within 10sec i have over 40 missiles flying at me. Now i'm all for them getting harder, and welcome it as it was too easy before castor. BUT i feel that all NPC ships should conform to the rules by which players have to play. I know that if i was in the same cruiser i would not get a lock from 80km. also with an M12 launcher in 2 slots the max for a moa, one volley of missiles from all of he ships should only give 12 missiles every 12 to 15 secs as an average. so how can in less than 20 secs can i have 40+ missiles coming at me, i suspect it was more but hey i did not stay to count them. I know from others that npc pirates that dont use missiles as their primary weapon are not as bad (though still mad). But this is NOT balanced. Currently a Destructor Gurista Rat 12.5k bounty which is a kestral, running into a spawn of them at 70 had the same result just mooorreee missiles. When i'm in a kestral i cant fire on a ship at 70k out. and also one or two shots from a battleship and i go pop. Not so for the Destructor. This may seen like a whinge... You're damn sure you're whining, and you are exaggerating BIGTIME. * With a moa I have 66km locking distance. In a Kestrel I can lock at 67km distance. * The Gurista Destructor fire 1 Flameburst Light Missile I every 7 seconds. It deals no turret damage at all. Now, those stats are a complete joke, these rats are NOTHING compared to a player in a kestrel. * The Gurista Mortifier (the 55k Moa rat) fire 1 Scourge Heavy Missile I every 20 seconds. A player in a Moa will fit 2 H-50 launchers with cruise missiles. Ie, the NPC fire 1 heavy missile every 20 seconds, a player would fire 1 cruise missile every 8 second. Again, the NPC stats are a joke compared to a player. So, next time you're whining, at least get some facts straight and don't exaggerate that much. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Cloudbase	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:18:00 - [39] They'll move you to PF no problem but anywhere else is often very difficult. Besides its not fun or productive for the bug hunters to keep moving peeps all over the galaxy...
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.23 16:26:00 - [40] Quote: They'll move you to PF no problem but anywhere else is often very difficult. Besides its not fun or productive for the bug hunters to keep moving peeps all over the galaxy... But it sure is fun... WEEEEEEE! __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Stem	Posted - 2004.01.23 19:59:00 - [41] Day 2 of testing NPCÆs Jump in my MOA, head out to belt 2 in PF-346, Meet up with 1x85K + 3x35k. They appear 10K from me.. After being webbed and killed in about 1min.. I was just thinking this was just a rare thing. So I go back to station Get a new MOA.. I head back out and pick a random belt, and I am then a little shocked to what I see.. 2x45k + 2x85K. Where are all these easy frigates I was plowing though yesterday?? Well I decide to engage them. But only 1 85K rate wantÆs to play.. Well ok.. they wanna go 1 on 1.. this will be really easy.. I take the 2 85k rats easy.. 1 on 1 there is no challenge.. But then the 2 45k rats decide to do a little tag team action. Before I know it there where both on top of me. I was webbed and there goes another MOA :) TomB must be playing a trick in me.. So here goes MOA #3. In about 10min. Once again head out to a random belt. Finally a normal spawn 2x 15k + 1x 45k.. over the next 2 hours I come across many 4 frigate 2 cruiser spawns. After 2+ hours in PF-346 + Hardest spawn I ran into was 2x45k + 2x85K + Easiest spawn was 2x15k + 1x35k - Tried repeatedly to get a chain spawn going, but would never start. I sat there for over 20min once and no reenforcement came to help there little friend. Starter 0.0 space seems pretty good. Defiantly not for frigates and even a solo cruiser could have a bad time there. Possible Bug Many times the highest level cruiser will not engage you if you are blowing away there friends.
Teeth	Posted - 2004.01.23 22:57:00 - [42] I think the rats can afford to be fairly difficult and numerous if: 1. You can choose to warp to belt at 100km (50km brings you right on top of rats sometimes even when you warp from the sun). 2. When they spawn you can see them coming. Any sort of warping in/decloaking effect that gives you at least 5-10 seconds to react OR they don't spawn all at once (5-10 seconds between rats spawning). It really feels random when you lose ships in your group because they ALL spawned and targetted just one person. Also as a side request, please make 0.1 harder than 50% chance of cruisers and maybe give it one good mineral going after and in small concentrations and make more 0.0 have at least ochre/gneiss (it's really sad how much of 0.0 doesn't have anything above hedgebrite)
Teeth	Posted - 2004.01.23 23:11:00 - [43] 0.4 and down should have more than 15% cruiser spawns. Basically I'd like to see 0.1-0.4 as a cool niche for cruiser pilots. If you gave this region good spawns and some hard to find good ore, you'd get cool interactions between miners, npc hunters and even low-scale pirates that would actually go to the belts and lose security while pirating.
shakaZ XIV	Posted - 2004.01.23 23:20:00 - [44] Quote: Quote: Deep Space: The infestation in Deep Space is more randomized than before and more depending on location. Regions next to Empire Space are more safe than before (less pirate strenght) and regions near Pirate Regions are more dangerous, and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. Does this mean that the best npc bounties are all moving to deep within alliance-controlled areas??? Unfortunately, my corpmates currently enjoying soloing 500k bs spawns seem to be in the minority, and with the advent of tech2 power diags/cap relays/repairers etc npc hunting will become even easier in the near future. Are we all going to be forced to sneak into supposedly closed regions just to seek out the npc-challenge?? Yup this is what im kind of worried about aswell. I also quite enjoy trying to solo the tough spawns...and its going well too (most of the time ). It would be crappy if npc pirate bships are reserved for alliances only, even if that would be correct from a RP-pov. Imo the spawns arent too tough at all at the moment, but the distribution of spawns is just a bit fkd. If they are just made a bit more consistent as to what spawns appear where, its all fine. But don't totally take the challenge of tough spawns away .
NaZguL	Posted - 2004.01.24 00:08:00 - [45] Edited by: NaZguL on 24/01/2004 00:11:59 Quote: It would be crappy if npc pirate bships are reserved for alliances only, even if that would be correct from a RP-pov. seems like thats exactly how TomB wants it as he said: Quote: regions near Pirate Regions are more dangerous, and Pirate Regions can have seriously deadly groups. after what i can see from the map (correct me if im wrong) the npc pirate regions are fountain/curse/venal wich are all alliance areas
Stoop	Posted - 2004.01.24 01:40:00 - [46] You guys that solo 500k battleships should really come to the ares where Gursitas live. You can go to Deklein and kill them. Its not alliance controlled. You will die. That is all that I have to say. Tomb I hope you fix the guristas.
Serak Tur	Posted - 2004.01.24 03:10:00 - [47] Stoop, I went fooling around Venal on Chaos and the Guristas spawns are much more manageable now. Mining looks like it will require an escort of course but its by no means impossible anymore. Keep in mind though that Venal proper is the Gurrista home region so the spawns there are a bit more difficult than the non pirate claimed regions (or at least seemed to be from what I could gather looking around several regions for a little while). -Serak Tur
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.01.24 03:21:00 - [48] I demand that the changes must be imposed on TQ Immedietely! That's all I have to say. I can't wait for this even for the weekend. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.01.24 03:28:00 - [49] Hmm I'm thinking that the percentage should be run for each ship in a spawn. So if there is a spawn of 4 ships, there would be a 50% chance that each ship is a cruiser. So you might get 4 frigates, 1 cruiser, 3 frigates, 2-2, 3 cruisers 1 frig, or all 4 cruisers.
Peek Aboo	Posted - 2004.01.24 09:23:00 - [50] Edited by: Peek Aboo on 24/01/2004 09:25:09 Quote: I went back yesterday, and found a spawn that consisted of 7 moa class Guristas the 55k ones i think. Well i thought i'm 80km out, i lets see what happens. ok opend fire on 1 cruiser, and within 10sec i have over 40 missiles flying at me. Now i'm all for them getting harder, and welcome it as it was too easy before castor. BUT i feel that all NPC ships should conform to the rules by which players have to play. I know that if i was in the same cruiser i would not get a lock from 80km. also with an M12 launcher in 2 slots the max for a moa, one volley of missiles from all of he ships should only give 12 missiles every 12 to 15 secs as an average. so how can in less than 20 secs can i have 40+ missiles coming at me, i suspect it was more but hey i did not stay to count them. I know from others that npc pirates that dont use missiles as their primary weapon are not as bad (though still mad). But this is NOT balanced. I'd also be interested in an answer to whether rats play "fair", or have insanely infinite everything. I was scouting in shallow 0.0 (1 jump from a 0.1) a few days ago and got jumped by a NPC rat spawn. I MWD'd away to 150km, thinking "I'll be safe, they can't hit me from here". Wrong. I lost my ship to a volley of Havoc missiles. Now as I say at the time all the rats in the belt were 150km away. When I use Havoc's they don't go much further han 50km (40sec flight time, 1.2km/sec, then maybe an addition 25% for the relevant skill). So what's going on? The the rats' missiles live by the same rules I have to die by? Or do they cheat? Oh, and if they do cheat, or do have super-human abilities, can this be changed please. It's hard enough dealing with spawns of 17 ships without them having advantages beyond pure numbers.
Arthur Guinness	Posted - 2004.01.24 11:14:00 - [51] Quote: 0.4 and down should have more than 15% cruiser spawns. Basically I'd like to see 0.1-0.4 as a cool niche for cruiser pilots. If you gave this region good spawns and some hard to find good ore, you'd get cool interactions between miners, npc hunters and even low-scale pirates that would actually go to the belts and lose security while pirating. There's enough good ores in that low sec space already. There's miners mining those ores. There's no pc pirates at the belts, never will be. What you want is easier access to good ore than the ppl who are in deep space. I hope it's not gonna happen.
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.24 11:15:00 - [52] Peek Aboo I could not agree more, i would like to see anybody kill a a current guristas spawn in 0.0 space. Well hopefully the game rules applied to us will now apply to the NPC rats, and there Tech 2/3 equipment will be restricted to exactly the same and we have access to. No more MWD without shield decrease, no more super missile launchers etc. What can i say start making the changes to TRANQ now. all these changes on Chaos need to start to migate to the live server. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.24 12:21:00 - [53] We will try to increase the missile damage and decrease the spam for missile spammers, will let you know when NPC balance set is on Chaos to test. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
Majin Buu	Posted - 2004.01.24 14:00:00 - [54] this most important thing that has to be balanced right is the pirates in 0.0 space where corps that live in curse/stain/fountain/venal can mine low end ores without losing 2-3 bs's every op, while not making the pirate spawns to weak that people can earn alot of isk from chaining them. BoB KillBoard
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.24 17:36:00 - [55] Edited by: dalman on 24/01/2004 17:37:40 Ok. Has the Carebears won? YES THEY HAVE! Following test was performed by me 2 minutes ago. Location PF-346 asteroid belt 6-1. (0.0 space) Me: Merlin frigate fitted with 2 280mm projectile guns (phased plasma ammo) and 2 A-3 launchers with STANDARD missiles (not heavies, not cruises) vs NPCs: 2xSerpentis Chief Defender(40k) + 2xSerpentis Chief Sentinel(30k) Attack distance: 10 km. Not using any AB/MWD Winner: Me in my Merlin frigate killed all 4 of the NPC cruisers, though I was down to ~70% structure 1 of the 4 NPCs for some reason didn't attack me, so it was just me vs 3 of them, and then I could kill the 4:th without any problem at all. Is it really meant that someone with 0 experience of frigate combat should kill 4 NPC cruisers? M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.24 20:44:00 - [56] Dalman. I hope your wrong. I better distro, and more realistic rules is what are needed. My particular beef was with the ability of guristas to missile spam. The spawn you talk about i would like to see in sectors around 0.4 in rating. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Ada Isdead	Posted - 2004.01.25 04:02:00 - [57] Yesterday i was in some 0.1 systems on the fringes of Ammarian space, alone in a lvl II cruiser (Celestis). The belts spawned 40k and 45k rats (Beasts and juggernauts). At that level i was fairly happy, if i kept my wits about me i could survive, but if my concentration dropped things could get tricky. Personally if your going to change empire space, then i'd leave 0.4 as is (so people can get jaspet for noxicum), make 0.3 be equiv to the 0.1 i've been in recently, and then work up from there. The main issue i see is access to noxicum, but then i guess scarcity is good for the economy, at least when supplied in carefully measured doses.
Beseb	Posted - 2004.01.25 17:45:00 - [58] Dalman, there is no comparison from serps to gurista's. Gurista's really are alot tougher with the missle spam. I guarentee you could not survive 4 gurista cruisers in a merlin.
Hasek	Posted - 2004.01.25 19:15:00 - [59] umm are we ever gonna have rouge drones??? to me itd make more sense having these in empire space then a pirate gang... on a RP perspective how did a know pirate get into empire space? besides a 0.0 region????
StarLite	Posted - 2004.01.25 19:52:00 - [60] I tested the new rat spawn 2 days ago [so something might have changed] and I was really disappointed. 45 jumps into 0.0 [dead end far out system] and best I got was 2*75K + a few 35K ones. I'll check again tonite once I get in [Chaos is always full these days, wich is a good thing IMO ;)] I think 0.0 space next to 0.1 should have slightly better spawns as 0.1. deep space 0.0 should have bships etc. Like before Castor, only with more/stronger pirates :) I used to be able to fly from 1.0 towards 0.0 and find a nice sector with pirates that were just fine for me. I like to see this setup back, only with stronger pirates as people are getting better and better skills all the time, so why wont pirates get better gradually? :) ___________________________________________________
QuantumX	Posted - 2004.01.25 20:23:00 - [61] Quote: Dalman, there is no comparison from serps to gurista's. Gurista's really are alot tougher with the missle spam. I guarentee you could not survive 4 gurista cruisers in a merlin. could not have said it better myself. Guristas are Uber npc pirates! ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Teeth	Posted - 2004.01.25 20:27:00 - [62] Quote: Quote: 0.4 and down should have more than 15% cruiser spawns. Basically I'd like to see 0.1-0.4 as a cool niche for cruiser pilots. If you gave this region good spawns and some hard to find good ore, you'd get cool interactions between miners, npc hunters and even low-scale pirates that would actually go to the belts and lose security while pirating. There's enough good ores in that low sec space already. There's miners mining those ores. There's no pc pirates at the belts, never will be. What you want is easier access to good ore than the ppl who are in deep space. I hope it's not gonna happen. Whatever man, I only mine in 0.0 or 0.6, best bang for the buck. But anyway even if the ore thing wasn't there, I'd still like to see some harsher npc's at 0.1, should basically be "the toughest you can find in empire space," would be nice if there was a bs in there every once in a while.
Acix	Posted - 2004.01.25 20:53:00 - [63] So how many of you guys that are commenting on this have ever ran into and killed the 3 battleship, 12 cruiser spawns. From the way you speak about it you guys could own them all. I think not. If you brought in a group big enough to kill these spawns (that I still see all the time) you would end up in lag hell. Just the missiles from the NPC's in 20 seconds after warping to belt number near 80 in flight. With your big NPC hunting group added into this a lag lottery would start. Who knows if you are going to die or not. You certainly can't tell because of the LAG...... Why in the heck would anyone ever put up over 500 million (5 battleship team, ships, mods etc.) all for 1.8 million in bounties and crap loot. If you guys think this is well planned risk vs. reward then try it for yourself and die like the rest. Rethink this whole npc situation CCP then try it all over, the way you are going is not good for high and low security areas. There is no continuity. Break out the drawing board and think of a new approach.
Cloudbase	Posted - 2004.01.25 20:59:00 - [64] Well I had a little joyride round the galaxy (thanks to BH eight) today and they are better. Tried 0.2, 0.1, inner 0.0 and somewhere around the popular fountain. I have to say they distribution of cruisers is better. A couple of cruisers is now quite common in 0.1/0.2 so good for the cruiser pilots. Only saw up to Moa sized guristas with a modest trickle of missles. Did notice that the spawns do not always correlate to the type of ore present but I guess its up to you find good ore with feeb spawns if you want to mine. One VERY bad thing was that collision detection has returned on cargo cans. A tiny can now stops a battleship. Its like navigating through 20 little asteroids. Also a panic if you're stuck on one trying to align for warp in hurry! Please sort this or it'll wind everyone up - put it back how it is on TQ now. Hope to find some bs spawns next time....(Larger chaos server anyone?)
SKiNNiEH	Posted - 2004.01.25 23:35:00 - [65] I just really hope i can do some solo 0.0 shooting again and be able to take on an npc battleship every now and then. -------
Stem	Posted - 2004.01.26 01:23:00 - [66] Have to thank [BH] Eight for moving me around all day. 0.2 to Starter 0.0 space Test ship MOA 3x250mmRails, 1xDual150, 2xH50's 1AB or MWD, EM shield, Thermal Shield, Med Booster 4 cap power Relays. Guristas Problem There missile spamming can get rather intense. even a group of frigates can be a huge problem for a cruiser at times. There also doesnÆt seem to be a range on there missiles or at what range they can lock you.. easily the hardest NPC's in game.. Solution I hear about a launcher ROF decease and a missile damage increase. This will help bigtime in the server load but I don't think it will help here. You will still receive the same amount of damage over time. The problem is that the Guristas are dishing out to much damage. Mainly because there is just to many of them. I suggest decreasing how many Guristas ships spawn, but increase there bounty. Or decrease the set hitpoints on all Gruistan ships to make them easier to kill. Or give them a different missile type to spam you with. There missile spamming is what that race of ships are designed to do so I wouldn't change that. Serpentis Problem They use short range blasters. Easy to counter by just staying 10K or more away from them. They use missiles but only a few, These guys are way easy to kill. Solution They currently use AB/MWD to try and get into close range.. sometimes this works.. sometimes it donÆt. Depends if your paying attention and hit your MWD to get away, but if your sleeping your in trouble.. So these guys should have a closer warp in range then all the other races. Just to give them a better chance to get in range for there guns. Give them EM missiles to work the shields more, might be enough to scare some people. Sansha DidnÆt have time to test these guys out. AngelÆs Problem Frigates seem quit happy to sit 8-12K way from you and do noting. They donÆt attempt to try and get in closer for there guns to even work. Not until webbed from a cruiser do they get a chance to get in close enough to do any damage. Seems only 45K and up ships make any attempt to try and get in close and get you. These guys are pretty much cannon flodder. DonÆt even need a MWD to stay at distance. Solution Make the frigates a bit more aggressive. Angels seem pretty balanced but the frigate support is rather lame. Either spawn more cruisers instead of frigates. Or make the frigates want to come in and get you.. I like more cruisers :) Cruiser seem pretty good. They start to pick you off around 20-30K away. Overall I would have to say the distribution of cruisers is much better. A couple of cruisers is now quite common in 0.4/0.3 good for the starter cruiser pilot. 0.2/0,1 you get a cruiser just about every time, good for hunters who donÆt want to risk the trip into 0.0 space. You can now make some good money killing NPCÆs in sec space now..Just make sure to use defenders when hunting Guristas. Angels are probably the most balanced ships to take on. Fun, yet can also be deadly if you get caught.
Allen Caine	Posted - 2004.01.26 02:45:00 - [67] Quote: So how many of you guys that are commenting on this have ever ran into and killed the 3 battleship, 12 cruiser spawns. From the way you speak about it you guys could own them all. I think not. If you brought in a group big enough to kill these spawns (that I still see all the time) you would end up in lag hell. Just the missiles from the NPC's in 20 seconds after warping to belt number near 80 in flight. With your big NPC hunting group added into this a lag lottery would start. Who knows if you are going to die or not. You certainly can't tell because of the LAG...... Why in the heck would anyone ever put up over 500 million (5 battleship team, ships, mods etc.) all for 1.8 million in bounties and crap loot. If you guys think this is well planned risk vs. reward then try it for yourself and die like the rest. Rethink this whole npc situation CCP then try it all over, the way you are going is not good for high and low security areas. There is no continuity. Break out the drawing board and think of a new approach. I don't think anyone has ever said that they could own a three battleship spawn. From my experience (doesn't include Guristas before someone asks) a solo player can handle upto and including a single 500k bs spawn. The few times I've been in a group and killed a three battleship spawn it did get a bit laggy but it was not unplayable. As for why players would want to group together to hunt the three battleship maybe because it's fun to work in a team, the challenge of beating the spawn, and the lure of the Modulated Tachyon or Scout 1400mm or whatever the Hybrid equivalent is?
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.01.26 05:04:00 - [68] Edited by: Slithereen on 26/01/2004 05:05:24 Have not tried the ones in Chaos, but here's some of my observations of NPCs already in TQ. This is to add to other observations. Sansha. Since Castor they have become more aggressive, but some types no longer fire missiles, such as Slavehunters and Ravishers. It was more fun back to when they did. Pre Castor, the Ravager was the most horrid 30K NPC you can run across in the game with its EMP Thunderbold missiles. Now it only has thermal missiles with Widowmakers. Sansha as a whole remains pretty aggressive---one word describes them: "Laser Hell". They are probably second or equal to the Gurista in difficulty, as they use a combination of both missile and laser spam. I like to get the Ravisher, Butcher and Slavehunter back to shooting missiles, like they once were. These guys are not to be underestimated. One time I came upon a swarm of low end Sansha, mainly Savages and Scavengers in a belt. Soon they were on me, and pumping more damage than my Large booster can handle without hardeners. Once they're close they're hard to hit. Bloods. Pretty much the same as the Sansha. Angels. They now seem to spam missiles less often than pre-Castor. The Marauder for one thing, was nerfed. It lost its missiles after Castor and should have it back. Otherwise, change its armanent from 425 autocannons to 650 artilleries, which is what this rat drops. I think rats should use what they drop, as this is more realistic and logical. I'm not sure where the comment about the Angel frigate's lack of aggressiveness, but the Angel Impalers are some of the most aggressive NPC frigs in the game in my experience. It's an aggressive missile spammer and those streaks coming out from their beautiful ships are from 280mm howitizers. Serpentis --- The lameset NPC pirate faction and needs in general to be more aggressive. Having said this,the real danger comes not from the cruiser but from the Serpentis in Tristans like Soldiers and Protectors. They fly very fast, manuevering a lot, and get too close for your big guns to hit them effectively. Once they are up close, they wear you quickly down with neutron blasters. One of the Serpentis in a Maulus lost its missiles after the patch. I think they should bring it back. Right now, I think TQ needs the NPC redistribution right now. The NPC tuning changes can be worked out in Chaos and applied later. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Parity	Posted - 2004.01.26 08:19:00 - [69] i did a little testing on chaos and i ran into 3 npc battleships in one spawn .. is that normal ? :)
Eight	Posted - 2004.01.26 11:31:00 - [70] As has been mentioned previously in this thread: When I'm available I can give you /TRs (transports, teleports, insta-move) around Chaos for the purposes of NPC testing. Simply request on in game channel eve-chaos. I try to check the log as regularly as possible, but don't be surprised if it comes a bit late. And be warned that I won't always be available to /TR you back later. Thanks to all those giving feedback in this thread. I'm also present on #eve-chaos on irc.coldfront.net if you want to give feedback there as well. ~ Eight
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.01.26 12:16:00 - [71] After about a month of solo hunting guristas BS`s I got killed AND podkilled while my pc crashed -which is a bit strange since at that time I was fighting some cruisers/frigs with 50%shields and hardners/shieldbooster on. Even logged into my alt to make my ship dissappear quickly after reboot but as I saw in the logon screen I was already cloned (in a station instead of inspace) I won`t ask to make the rats not podkill you cause it seems fair that they can do most theings players can do. I don`t go to chaos to test them but my only problem is the "fairness" of things as far as the rats firing range and missile ROF is concerned. As Slithereen pointed out their missiles seem to have infinite range appart from having a never ending supply. One last thing that is bothering me is the increase of lag when activating modules the last 10 days or so (my connection is ok btw). I can`t time modules correctly(smartbombs to be exact) that are the key to me for stopping the missile spam. The loot tables need to be upped IMO as well. Killing a BS and finding 1mn afterburners and maybe the odd XL shieldbooster is very wrong compared to the risk you take, even when hunting in groups. Thanx devs for your constant support
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.01.27 01:43:00 - [72] My observations after checking Chaos: 1.) There is still not enough cruiser NPCs from 0.4 to empire space 0.0. The percentage of cruiser spawn has to be upped. 2.) Shallow space 0.0 (0.0 space within a few jumps) seems utterly nerfed. I think the balance has gone too weak. This may be okay for the solo-er but too easy for those in groups. I still think a desired middle ground has to be reached. We need the "bite" but we don't need the "bland". Will need to evaluate more. And yes I do agree that spawns should "spawn" around 40 to 60km from the belt, not 20km. I didn't have time to check this out yet. I do suggest returning missiles back to the Sansha Slavehunters, Ravishers, Butcher, and Angel Marauders to make the more challenging again. In other words, they should go back to their Pre-Castor state. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
LLeBRing	Posted - 2004.01.27 05:47:00 - [73] Edited by: LLeBRing on 27/01/2004 05:51:05 Well BH Hammerhead was kind enough to move our group around EVE today to test out the changed npc spawns which we thank him for. The spawn changes as of 1/27/04 from what we can tell are a drastic improvement and still challenging. Although it took us some time and practice with loadouts we did manage to tame the fabled Guristas with a couple of m8's(important to note we did die a couple times though ) The distribution however I can't really tell. Sometimes you get a spawn with 4 cruisers and sometimes with more and a bunch of frigs. We had approx over 100 npc kills and didn't come across 1 gursta BS. We did this experiment about 60 hops into venal in a system with loads of bistot, spud, and merc. What we did think needed a tad of work was on the bounty set on the npc's and perhaps the sec status. It took us around 3 hours to kill a little over 100 npc's(this includes the time it took us to figure out strategies against them) We each walked away with 1.5mil.. so that is a little dissapointing. A person mining can in fact make more then what we did but we were just happy to see good changes. Another thing we found was the security status, for those kills and being ganged we raised our sec status around .028yadayadayad. For all those kills dont' feel thats very rewarding. TAkes a long time to get up a security status and at that rate it woudl take absolute ages. It's a pride thing really, some want to work hard to get it as high as possible, this just makes it a tad difficult Overall I must say these new npc's overall are a great improvement Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
The Beast	Posted - 2004.01.27 12:06:00 - [74] Not having been able to get on chaos and only having read about 50% of this thread i may be mentioning things that are already fixed/changed. I appologize if i am. The problem at the moment with 0.0 is it is nearly impossible to mine without loosing BSs'. My corp went on a 0.0 mining expedition, 5 BS's and 2 Indies. We all went laoded upw iht heavy drones, a harvester each and 1 miner 2, the rest of our equipment was used for fighting, guns, defenders etc. We managed to losoe a total of 4 BS so far for about 2 mil of Zydrine. 10 65K Moa's spawning 15km from you then using MWD's to get to about 5km along with 40 odd cruise misslies and all the lag ends up in the person closest to them dying wihtout much chance. Even a megathron equiped with hardners, boosters, shield amp and HEavy Neutrons cant kill more than 2 before it is dead even with 4 other BS and 25 heavy drones pumeling the rest. Ok 0.0 mining should be hard, and should require corp outings or just simply some small 5 or 6 man teams, but a 5 or 6 man team should be able to mine without loosing a BS every 2 spawns. I am all for the harder rats, but i do think the sheer numbers of them is far too high. tone these spawns down to 5 65Ks and 2 frigs maybe or even 4 and 2 but 9 and 6? thats insane. This currently gives the smaller corp absolutly no chance of 0.0 mining when you need 15 or more people in BS's just to ensure you dont loose any. My corp only has about 10 active members and only 6 able to fly BS. what do we do to make money then??? "If God Posted His Second Coming Here I Would Ban His Ass For Being Off Topic ! :)"
Acks	Posted - 2004.01.27 13:11:00 - [75] Edited by: Acks on 27/01/2004 13:14:07 Quote: Edited by: LLeBRing on 27/01/2004 05:51:05 Well BH Hammerhead was kind enough to move our group around EVE today to test out the changed npc spawns which we thank him for. The spawn changes as of 1/27/04 from what we can tell are a drastic improvement and still challenging. Although it took us some time and practice with loadouts we did manage to tame the fabled Guristas with a couple of m8's(important to note we did die a couple times though ) The distribution however I can't really tell. Sometimes you get a spawn with 4 cruisers and sometimes with more and a bunch of frigs. We had approx over 100 npc kills and didn't come across 1 gursta BS. We did this experiment about 60 hops into venal in a system with loads of bistot, spud, and merc. What we did think needed a tad of work was on the bounty set on the npc's and perhaps the sec status. It took us around 3 hours to kill a little over 100 npc's(this includes the time it took us to figure out strategies against them) We each walked away with 1.5mil.. so that is a little dissapointing. A person mining can in fact make more then what we did but we were just happy to see good changes. Another thing we found was the security status, for those kills and being ganged we raised our sec status around .028yadayadayad. For all those kills dont' feel thats very rewarding. TAkes a long time to get up a security status and at that rate it woudl take absolute ages. It's a pride thing really, some want to work hard to get it as high as possible, this just makes it a tad difficult Overall I must say these new npc's overall are a great improvement I second your Ideas on the bountys an increase would greatly improve the whole affect as it requires atleast 3 of us to do what it used to take one and the bountys are significantly lower then they were or we were able to accumulate pre castor. security status I agree with also not to sure on the resolution for that tho as I wasnt paying attention to much to that as to the make up of the npcs. but all I all a vast improvement with the guristas, Note: missle spamm can still be a problem when you encounter a larger group of guristas in cruiser's over frigates seems the missles are a tad bit to fast as they are hitting you like they are firing out of a gun vs a launcher.
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.01.27 13:36:00 - [76] Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 13:38:25 Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 13:37:31 Quote: So how many of you guys that are commenting on this have ever ran into and killed the 3 battleship, 12 cruiser spawns. From the way you speak about it you guys could own them all. I think not. If you brought in a group big enough to kill these spawns (that I still see all the time)you would end up in lag hell. Just the missiles from the NPC's in 20 seconds after warping to belt number near 80 in flight. With your big NPC hunting group added into this a lag lottery would start. Who knows if you are going to die or not. You certainly can't tell because of the LAG...... Why in the heck would anyone ever put up over 500 million (5 battleship team, ships, mods etc.) all for 1.8 million in bounties and crap loot. If you guys think this is well planned risk vs. reward then try it for yourself and die like the rest. Rethink this whole npc situation CCP then try it all over, the way you are going is not good for high and low security areas. There is no continuity. Break out the drawing board and think of a new approach. Ok just for info. Last sunday the 25/01/04. Myself and 3 other corp mates went into 0.0 in 3 apocs and an arma. Only 5 jumps into 0.0 we found a system with multiple bs spawns. 4 BS and 12 cruisers to be exact. We warped in and took the lot out. Whilst we did receive considerable damage to two ships (this was avoidable by the way) we survived intact and flew away with the loot. So this just shows that with the right tactics and loadout you can take them on and win. So in answer to your post. Just learn how to fly and fight properly and stop moaning at CCP about things. Sure they bugger up now and again but the spawns are not invincible and are certainly not going away anytime soon, and personally, I dont want them to. ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.01.27 15:09:00 - [77] Quote: Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 13:38:25 Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 13:37:31 Quote: So how many of you guys that are commenting on this have ever ran into and killed the 3 battleship, 12 cruiser spawns. From the way you speak about it you guys could own them all. I think not. If you brought in a group big enough to kill these spawns (that I still see all the time)you would end up in lag hell. Just the missiles from the NPC's in 20 seconds after warping to belt number near 80 in flight. With your big NPC hunting group added into this a lag lottery would start. Who knows if you are going to die or not. You certainly can't tell because of the LAG...... Why in the heck would anyone ever put up over 500 million (5 battleship team, ships, mods etc.) all for 1.8 million in bounties and crap loot. If you guys think this is well planned risk vs. reward then try it for yourself and die like the rest. Rethink this whole npc situation CCP then try it all over, the way you are going is not good for high and low security areas. There is no continuity. Break out the drawing board and think of a new approach. Ok just for info. Last sunday the 25/01/04. Myself and 3 other corp mates went into 0.0 in 3 apocs and an arma. Only 5 jumps into 0.0 we found a system with multiple bs spawns. 4 BS and 12 cruisers to be exact. We warped in and took the lot out. Whilst we did receive considerable damage to two ships (this was avoidable by the way) we survived intact and flew away with the loot. So this just shows that with the right tactics and loadout you can take them on and win. So in answer to your post. Just learn how to fly and fight properly and stop moaning at CCP about things. Sure they bugger up now and again but the spawns are not invincible and are certainly not going away anytime soon, and personally, I dont want them to. Till you had 15 npcs spawn ontop of you, then it doesnt mather how many bs's you have because you will get Pwned... No mather what. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.27 15:34:00 - [78] Quote: Till you had 15 npcs spawn ontop of you, then it doesnt mather how many bs's you have because you will get Pwned... No mather what. I've never had 15 NPCs so close, but I did have 10 of the higher NPC cruisers (50-85k) spawn 9 km away from me and all go for me, and I was at 100% shield and 40% cap when our group of 4 battleships had killed all of them. You just need to be shield tanked to max. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
dalman	Posted - 2004.01.27 16:08:00 - [79] Wow. You said it would be more random. And random it is Location: dead end 0.0 inside Sansha's nation (stain) Checked 6 belts: 3 belts had 4 NPC cruisers (65-85k) 1 belt had 3 cruisers + 6 frigates 1 belt had 5 cruisers 1 belt had 4 battleships (2x 250 and 2x 500k)!! Quite a difference between getting 4 cruisers in a belt and then 4 battleships in the next one M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Alexander Rahl	Posted - 2004.01.27 17:10:00 - [80] Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 17:12:03 Till you had 15 npcs spawn ontop of you, then it doesnt mather how many bs's you have because you will get Pwned... No mather what. Hmm actually i think not. mainly because, a) npc's tend to respawn at their original locations not where they were destroyed and; b) If they do happen to respawn near you then a quick warp out always works. It,s obvious you are just another poor pilot with no experience at dealing with major rats. So leave the excitement to Real pilots and stick in 1.0 where you belong. ----/ / /-----<[]>-----\ \ \---- Head of House Rahl Warleader of the Rahl Clans "Death and Glory, Honour with Courage, Fury and Vengeance" - Chronicles of Rahl.
Fort	Posted - 2004.01.27 18:46:00 - [81] Question: When the rats are on one side of the asteroid belt and you are on the other, currently their missiles hit the roids and still manage to hit you and deal damage but your missiles simply hit the roids. Is this still a problem or has it or will it be fixed?
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2004.01.27 18:59:00 - [82] [quote I don't think anyone has ever said that they could own a three battleship spawn. From my experience (doesn't include Guristas before someone asks) a solo player can handle upto and including a single 500k bs spawn. The few times I've been in a group and killed a three battleship spawn it did get a bit laggy but it was not unplayable. As for why players would want to group together to hunt the three battleship maybe because it's fun to work in a team, the challenge of beating the spawn, and the lure of the Modulated Tachyon or Scout 1400mm or whatever the Hybrid equivalent is? Actually my CEO just OWNED a 3 BS spawn. Then again they were Serpentis Dominix. You just need the right skill and the right setup. Would this be the same outcome for Guristas... probably not.
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.27 22:59:00 - [83] Quote: Question: When the rats are on one side of the asteroid belt and you are on the other, currently their missiles hit the roids and still manage to hit you and deal damage but your missiles simply hit the roids. Is this still a problem or has it or will it be fixed? Not fixed sorry, but will get fixed very soon. So you wanted to test out some boosters?
Kalki Nibiru	Posted - 2004.01.28 02:44:00 - [84] TomB, that bug goes one step further. If you are out of range of the missiles fired at you and they detonate, you get hit (at least that has been the case for me a few times). Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate . <Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market? <Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with
Gyrn Fzirth	Posted - 2004.01.28 07:50:00 - [85] Edited by: Gyrn Fzirth on 28/01/2004 07:54:28 Edited by: Gyrn Fzirth on 28/01/2004 07:53:29 Edited by: Gyrn Fzirth on 28/01/2004 07:51:57 Quote: Quote: Edited by: Alexander Rahl on 27/01/2004 17:12:03 Till you had 15 npcs spawn ontop of you, then it doesnt mather how many bs's you have because you will get Pwned... No mather what. Hmm actually i think not. mainly because, a) npc's tend to respawn at their original locations not where they were destroyed and; I lost a typhoon in a matter of seconds to a 20+ mix of cruisers and frigates that spawned literally 5-10k away from me. This was @ 60km from the belt and @ 50km from where they originally spawned. We had a total of 5 battleships with us on that belt. My experience diametrically opposes your statements. Quote: b) If they do happen to respawn near you then a quick warp out always works. The cruisers often have warp scramblers. Out of 24 nmes in a spawn, if 5 of them are cruisers you run a good chance of being warp scrambled. It's even possible you'll be ws by 2 or 3 of them, not to mention webbed. Then there's the missile spam to contend with. Even after the castor patch, it can be hard to align for a warp with literally 50-80 missiles on there way to you, with 5 or 6 hitting every second. Warp outs do NOT always work ;) Quote: It,s obvious you are just another poor pilot with no experience at dealing with major rats. So leave the excitement to Real pilots and stick in 1.0 where you belong. um, yeah. Your bravado bespeaks a lack of experience with the npcs as they currently are, particularly if the npcs are Gurista npcs of DOOOOOOOM edit - damn quote nesting =============== Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
Coreantes	Posted - 2004.01.28 08:02:00 - [86] Quote: I lost a typhoon in a matter of seconds to a 20+ mix of cruisers and frigates that spawned literally 5-10k away from me. This was @ 60km from the belt and @ 50km from where they originally spawned. We had a total of 5 battleships with us on that belt. My experience diametrically opposes your statements. Sorry for your loss! I know what you are talking about, we had the same thing last week! We tried to find some paterns in the way NPC attack, but they dont seem to have paterns at all! They attack just random and also spawn pretty random. If you stick with 4/5 BS in one place, they will spawn there, but if you, as we did, spread troughout the belt, we didnt had any problems. Just make sure to bring enough ppl with ya to shoot those nifty bastard frigates that web/jam you! We ALMOST lost a Apoc because of that! Good Luck next time! ---------------------------------------------- ...Good is only skin deep, but evil is dead down to the bone...
Gyrn Fzirth	Posted - 2004.01.28 08:12:00 - [87] Quote: Quote: I lost a typhoon in a matter of seconds to a 20+ mix of cruisers and frigates that spawned literally 5-10k away from me. This was @ 60km from the belt and @ 50km from where they originally spawned. We had a total of 5 battleships with us on that belt. My experience diametrically opposes your statements. Sorry for your loss! I know what you are talking about, we had the same thing last week! We tried to find some paterns in the way NPC attack, but they dont seem to have paterns at all! They attack just random and also spawn pretty random. If you stick with 4/5 BS in one place, they will spawn there, but if you, as we did, spread troughout the belt, we didnt had any problems. Just make sure to bring enough ppl with ya to shoot those nifty bastard frigates that web/jam you! We ALMOST lost a Apoc because of that! Good Luck next time! Heh I was kinda bummed I lost that big trashcan to npcs, but the platinum insurance I had certainly helped asuage my pain ;) btw that's an interesting tactic you mention. We tried to maintain @ 10-15km of distance between our brethren/sisthren (is that a word?) but alas, 20+ npcs that all insta-target is all it took to kick over my poor trashcan. I'm just glad I got my pod away before their cruise missiles could detonate and clone me, sans implants :) [gluttonforpunishment]perhaps next time we'll space out @ 30-50km from one another[/gluttonforpunishment] =============== Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
Coreantes	Posted - 2004.01.28 10:05:00 - [88] Quote: Heh I was kinda bummed I lost that big trashcan to npcs, but the platinum insurance I had certainly helped asuage my pain ;) btw that's an interesting tactic you mention. We tried to maintain @ 10-15km of distance between our brethren/sisthren (is that a word?) but alas, 20+ npcs that all insta-target is all it took to kick over my poor trashcan. I'm just glad I got my pod away before their cruise missiles could detonate and clone me, sans implants :) [gluttonforpunishment]perhaps next time we'll space out @ 30-50km from one another[/gluttonforpunishment] Yeah... we had 2 cruisers hanging in the middle of the belt mining, with MWD to get to a decent range when a spawn came, and this worked fine... BUT, as stated in this topic before, we have to protect those cruisers with 4/5 BS to make sure they are safe! And i want to add to it that this is a system with NO hard-to-find roids! Just DO in it, nothing special more! Spawn of 2 initiate, 2 sentry and 10 protectors where fairly common there! I hope this will tune it a bit more, but i have not that much experience in pirates vs. 0.0 space to tell what execly, to be honest! Just think its a bit to much to have 2 Cruisers and 5 BS to protect to get 2 refines of DO in 0.0! ---------------------------------------------- ...Good is only skin deep, but evil is dead down to the bone...
TomB	Posted - 2004.01.28 11:11:00 - [89] Current distribution fixes and spawn/warp fixes going to Tranquility today, NPC tuning will start after patch. So you wanted to test out some boosters?

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