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Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:03:00 - [1] I jumped into my Command ship and with 2 buddies, took on a lvl4. First part was to take on a bunch of likely looking NPC rats and destroy them. 3 or 4 frigs, 10 crusiers or so and 6 BS rats adorned my overview. I picked the frig to try to reduce the likelyhood of being webbed or scrambled and started firing. Hardeners on and DCU running, I had plenty of time to hit the armor reppers when I needed to. For the next 10 seconds, all hell broke loose but I saw none of it. I was completely frozen. By the time the data had been updated and my ship was unfrozen, my shields were gone, my armor was down to 10% and I was also taking damage to my hull. Only by a miracle did I manage to survive long enough to warp out with 9% hull left. All hail the DCU II that saved my hull by giving it 60% resists. Just as I left, I saw that I had not even popped the frigate I had started firing at. Both my buddies had to bail as well, one almost losing a Raven to lag. Okay, repair and go out again for another go. At teh top of the acceleration gate, another bout of lag but I had taken the precaution of switching on my reppers this time before I went up. The reppers did nothing and when the lag ended, I found myself down to 15% armor and taking hull damage again. This time, I hadn't even got the chance to target anything before the lag hit me. Out once more with massive hull damage and my buddies right behind me also with hull damage. Come on CCP, this lag problem is getting beyond a joke. If three players can't do a lvl4 without taking massive lag related damage, what point is there in having lvl4 missions at all? The mission cost me and my buddies more in repairs than we could have got from bounties and rewards combined. I thought the lag issue was going to be resolved with the introduction of Revelations. I believe the keywords were "Need for Speed". There seems to be more lag in missions now than there was before. --
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:13:00 - [2] Honest questions: - What are you running Eve on? - What gfx card and cpu do you have? - What is your connection speed (ie. ping, world location, etc)? - download Pingplotter to see if you have a problem at all. - What other programs do you have running that could perhaps slow down your cpu or limit you internet bandwidth? - Is this the only mission you have problems with? - Did multiple other npc spawns appear as you opened fire hence causing you to lag out? - Stupid question perhaps: did you have the correct hardeners on (sometimes I think, wtf this mission has gotten hard then see my setup is wrong). - How many people were in local (ie. were you running mission in an empire high sec hub). Obviously there are things your end and in between that can cause lag and not just CCPs servers. That being said, it does sux.
Lance Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:20:00 - [3] I had a similar problem just yesterday. I was running level 3s in a retribution. There were... 6 targets on overveiw. like 1-2 people in local. ... retri warps in.... .... .... ... wtf is happening? ... ... ... oh noes my ship is dead. lag sucks.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.10 17:28:00 - [4] Dare I say GET OUT OF MOTSU?!
Jiggs Casey Minmatar Asguard Security Service Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.07.10 18:44:00 - [5] I have this issue when doing 'the blockade', lvl 3. Oddly enough, it doesn't happen on the lvl 4 version...
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Drizit on 10/07/2007 19:19:19 I was in a fairly low population system with at most 20 players in about 20 jumps from the nearest hub system. I have done both lvl3's and lvl4's in this system but it's only lvl4's that give this effect. My spec is way above optimal (AMD 3200/1gb/Nvidia7600). A 8mb bandwidth gives me no problems in any other o/l games. and yes, I used the right hardeners but that doesn't affect lag and my armor resists are around 92% across the board. No more spawned while I was there but they did later while I was warping out the first time. Normally, it doesn't matter when others spawn, it has no affect on my PC's performance in lvl3's. Even missions like Blockade in lvl3 where 4 or 5 spawns appear, I can still continue to fight as the next lot spawn. Often, I don't even realise they have respawned until I do a re-count on my overview. I can tank any lvl3 mission all day but I expect a little more hitting power from NPC's in lvl4's. What I don't expect is to last only 15 seconds even with a tank running. Warp in and then warp out straight away because I have no time to do much else. Considering that all the rats tend to target a single ship in a pack, I might as well be doing the mission alone but the lag is making it impossible. Edit: spelling. --
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:19:00 - [7] Were they Serpentis rats by any chance? I tell you... I can run any L4 out there, but any time I get a Serpentis mission it's lag city for whatever reason. Only time I lost a Raven was because of that because I couldn't see which frigate was warp scrambling me due to it being gone from view by the time I was able to move the camera around to see it. And no, I'm nowhere near Jita or any of that madness. I have more sense than that. I run missions out of low-sec. Closest trade hub is Rens, 6 jumps away. It's only Serpentis that I have this problem with. Any idea what it is about Serpentis that causes this?
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:22:00 - [8] Edited by: Drizit on 10/07/2007 19:22:40 Mine were Blood Raiders. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Dare I say GET OUT OF MOTSU?! Maybe if I was in or anywhere near Motsu, I'd agree. --
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:34:00 - [9] Did you file a detailed bug report? Be sure to do that. This new "mission lag" is something that seems to have cropped up recently. I haven't been affected by it yet but I'll be sure to watch out for it. Then again, my setup allows me to fully sustain my shield booster so I usually turn it on before I even enter the deadspace complex, so lag doesn't affect me much. ------------ LAG - Hopefully teen-appropriate now. IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.07.10 20:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic Did you file a detailed bug report? Be sure to do that. You are joking of course? Any bug reports you send to CCP end up popping out of a tube onto a pile of unread bug reports in the middle of a hawaian field. SKUNK Originally by: Fink Angel They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.10 20:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Drizit Edited by: Drizit on 10/07/2007 19:22:40 Mine were Blood Raiders. Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Dare I say GET OUT OF MOTSU?! Maybe if I was in or anywhere near Motsu, I'd agree. Right, well we still don't know which mission you did, it would be helpful if you'd remember the name, or even describe it more clearly so I can do a guess. I run lvl 4 missions a lot and only times lag can be an issue is on weekends at peak times, but even then it's nothing more than a mild annoyance.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Right, well we still don't know which mission you did, it would be helpful if you'd remember the name, or even describe it more clearly so I can do a guess. I run lvl 4 missions a lot and only times lag can be an issue is on weekends at peak times, but even then it's nothing more than a mild annoyance. You want to experience lag like that try running recon by killing the rats not running the gates - there is some Uberlag there. Not sure what difference the mission name makes, this is not fixed as promised "Need for speed" missed a lot of things that were/are relatively easy to fix in game. Missions Larger, rats less numbers Less useless eye candy and floating garbage in mission Get rid of or give containers a lifespan
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Tarminic Did you file a detailed bug report? Be sure to do that. You are joking of course? Any bug reports you send to CCP end up popping out of a tube onto a pile of unread bug reports in the middle of a hawaian field. SKUNK You have no right to whine about any bug you encounter unless you bug report it. Otherwise it's like *****ing about politicians but not getting off of your lazy arse to vote. ------------ LAG - Hopefully teen-appropriate now. IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Lookatmi Hooters	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Tarminic Did you file a detailed bug report? Be sure to do that. You are joking of course? Any bug reports you send to CCP end up popping out of a tube onto a pile of unread bug reports in the middle of a hawaian field. SKUNK When you quit, your stuff is mine ok? Just so we're both clear on that.
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.07.11 01:18:00 - [15] Looks into crystal ball. Looks like you were doing recon. This is possibly the hardest L4 I've done, I did the angel version solo in a phoon. Barely. I actually had to warp out, with a perma LARII and 5 hards. Also, blood raders nos like hell, it's entirely possible with the lag involved they nossed you dry. As I said the DPS on this is pretty intense, I find Mordus much easier. Anywho, I had no lag. Mind you my system is > than yours by a good margin. My laptop lags like hell, so I'd say performance does make a big difference. It never lagged that hard before, so I'm guessing the client is getting pushed hard. Turn off all effects and turret effects. Good luck working out if you're being scrammed, but if you're lagged to hell you'll never see it anyway...
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.11 01:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Nalar Marnith Looks into crystal ball. Looks like you were doing recon. This is possibly the hardest L4 I've done, I did the angel version solo in a phoon. Barely. I actually had to warp out, with a perma LARII and 5 hards. Also, blood raders nos like hell, it's entirely possible with the lag involved they nossed you dry. As I said the DPS on this is pretty intense, I find Mordus much easier. Anywho, I had no lag. Mind you my system is > than yours by a good margin. My laptop lags like hell, so I'd say performance does make a big difference. It never lagged that hard before, so I'm guessing the client is getting pushed hard. Turn off all effects and turret effects. Good luck working out if you're being scrammed, but if you're lagged to hell you'll never see it anyway... You did that mission with NOSSING NPCS?! Jesus... I barely managed with a Maelstrom that tanks at least 300 raw DPS with 60-70% resists...NOS would have doomed me. ------------ LAG - Hopefully teen-appropriate now. IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.07.11 02:27:00 - [17] Quote: You did that mission with NOSSING NPCS?! Jesus... I barely managed with a Maelstrom that tanks at least 300 raw DPS with 60-70% resists...NOS would have doomed me. Not me man, the other guy said he had bloods (nos). I lost my mael to cargo delivery (long story) due to being nossed dry and scrammed. I bought and fit my phoon from the insurance ;) Mine was angels, and it was brutal. You can't even take in something that can tank less than a BS as support due to the timed spawn. I took down most of the cruisers before warping out (<3 to my t2 heavies) with 98% structure left. Warping back in was easy.
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 10:06:00 - [18] Edited by: Drizit on 11/07/2007 10:07:49 I got nossed but not till later in the mission. The cap wasn't dry at all, in fact I still had well over 35% left by the time I got out. The only way we could manage to beat it was to distract the rats by warping out and leaving drones behind. While they were popping the inert drones, warp back in and take on the lesser firepower. Even a dual T2 rep couldn't keep up with the DPS they were dishing out once all NPC's attacked but my cap certainly wouldn't keep up with a dual rep. I can sustain a single repper indefinitely with guns, webber, AB, and active hardeners running as well and my cap levels out at 25%. The lag didn't occur until all the NPC's were firing at me. By using drones to distract them, the lag was no longer a problem. Each time I warped in and all the NPC's targetted and fired at me, it lagged like hell but each time they were firing at something else and only a few targetted me, it was fine. Graphics settings made no difference, I already thought of that and reduced my graphics settings as far as I could. Although the Geforce 7600 should easily cope with anything Eve could throw at it. Having said that, I wonder if this is something to do with incorporating the code for Vista graphics optimisation into the same client as XP uses. Maybe it is getting clogged by trying to check which graphical images to display, especially when it has to do it so many times in less than a second. The only way to be certain is to split the code and have seperate clients for Vista and XP. As a side point, this would make both clients smaller and reduce the load on the client download server as well as the patch server. Personally, I think it's time CCP moved away from Python and created a pure code version of the client so the code can be optimised properly. Otherwise it becomes a classic case that nearly all software houses use of throwing more hardware at it instead of optimising the code to make it work properly. Eve is now becoming too big for script langauges, they are too slow and I think a lot of the clientside lag is related to this. --
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.07.11 10:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Drizit Personally, I think it's time CCP moved away from Python and created a pure code version of the client so the code can be optimised properly. Otherwise it becomes a classic case that nearly all software houses use of throwing more hardware at it instead of optimising the code to make it work properly. Eve is now becoming too big for script langauges, they are too slow and I think a lot of the clientside lag is related to this. Firstly. Only a fraction of EVE is written in Python. CCP have stated that once the code becomes mature enough it is rewritten in C/C++ and that they [CCP] are continuously migrating more and more client-side code to C/C++. Secondly. The difference in performance between modern interpreter and compiler languages is adequately made up for by ever increasing computing power of CPU. In most cases - it just does not matter. In closing, it is not the language, it's how the solutions provided by it are implemented in practice.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.11 11:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Tarminic You have no right to whine about any bug you encounter unless you bug report it. Otherwise it's like *****ing about politicians but not getting off of your lazy arse to vote. Bug reporting IS useless, I made a bug report about the very simple bug in the bonus descriptions of the Harbinger and Hurricane (it doesn't say the bonus only work for medium guns). I got a response back that they couldn't verify this bug unless I send them all sort of logs, petition closed.
fuze	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Bug reporting IS useless, I made a bug report about the very simple bug in the bonus descriptions of the Harbinger and Hurricane (it doesn't say the bonus only work for medium guns). I got a response back that they couldn't verify this bug unless I send them all sort of logs, petition closed. The person who processed that BR should be reprimanded for slacking the job. What use are BR anyway when they aren't taken seriously. On some other post Sharkbait told they were thinking about moving lvl 4 agents to counter the missioneer blobbing. But that's just fighting symptoms IMHO. What I don't get is when the RevII update ****ed up the client and caused the desync bug affecting the entire game they will rollback to pre RevII. You have backups don't you? Why not use them.
Cardassius Seraphin Technologies Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:14:00 - [22] Drizit, I run an AMD 64 3000+ with 2GB DDR2 and a ATI X800 AGP and I run cosmos missions occasionally (which are very hard). Did you remove all effects and such? CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-E and T ? Because when all ships fire on you those are the things that lag.
Jason Arbitor	Posted - 2007.07.11 12:32:00 - [23] I lost my first battleship to the Recon mission lvl 4. I never had a chance. I warped in and froze solid. I began spamming the dock button to the closest station and when I unfroze i found my pod warping to the station. My team mate also warped out almost dead. he told me he saw me freeze while aligning then warp out then rubber band back in and explode. On a second run of recron I did not have any issues as the spawns appeared after a few minutes of each other giving me time to destroy most of the smaller ships in teh area. Now fighting that many battleships at once is nerve wracking enough but at least CCP gave me back my battleship I lost to their lag fleet.
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:29:00 - [24] The issue is not just with the lag and repair costs. Between 3 of us, it took a little over 2 hours to complete the mission for a paltry 1.5 million bonus. Ading in the bounties meant that in the same amount of time and even without taking the reapirs into consideration, I could have solo'd several lvl3 missions for more isk. Mission rewards, bounties and LP split between a gang makes for far less income/LP than the same amount of time soloing lvl3 missions. Unless you have mega amounts of SP in just about everything, you don't stand much of a chance trying to solo a lvl4. I have 16m SP, 2m more than the next best gang member flying a Raven and we both still have to bail when we're in a gang. With 90%+ resists all round, I shouldn't have to bail inside a minute but I often do and I may as well not even have a repper for all the good it does. Personally, I'm beginning to wonder if lvl4's are even worth doing. With Lag, uber DPS, poor rewards and requiring loads of time, lvl4's are just not profitable any more. --
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Cardassius Did you remove all effects and such? CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-E and T ? Because when all ships fire on you those are the things that lag. Say whaaah eh? I didn't know you could turn off such effects. Is that a standard / Default Bind? Khaldari KPA are recruiting In-game channel: khanidpublic

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