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Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
18
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Posted - 2012.01.11 04:52:00 -
[151] - Quote
Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen.
1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs. 2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic. 3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence. 4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it. 5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships. 6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more. 7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well.
Status Quo preserved.
There's a reason why this thread died in Ships And Modules. |
Shalee Lianne
Imperial Outlaws
62
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Posted - 2012.01.11 07:23:00 -
[152] - Quote
+1 I like this idea. http://amarrian.blogspot.com/ -á~ Roleplay blog.http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/ ~ Faction War blog. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
52
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Posted - 2012.01.11 08:39:00 -
[153] - Quote
The idea makes no sense at all. Like if we all look at some thing it takes people longer to find it? One lots of computers all try to do the same thing it takes longer? That is just not how it works. If any thing it should be the other way around if Im in fleet and our computers are talking then mine should be augmenting yours, or just telling you were they are because my ship already knows. As a solution to a problem its still half assed. No way to make bigger and bigger fights last longer and longer, if any thing just make it so they have to split up and hold multiple points simultaneously in system to take sov and BAMB smaller longer fights |
Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
18
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Posted - 2012.01.11 09:02:00 -
[154] - Quote
They already have to. Gotta control the gates you drop Sovereignerity Blockade Units at more then half of the star gates, then you have to fight at the Cynojammer, Infrastructure, etc.
From my understanding, current doctrine is to completely smash the defenders, secure the system via gate camasgmps, THEN drop SBUs, smash poses, etc. Which is why no multiple fights occur in system. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
757
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Posted - 2012.01.11 09:09:00 -
[155] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote: Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen.
1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs. 2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic. 3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence. 4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it. 5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships. 6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more. 7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well.
Amazing. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a prime example of an idiot. Don't make too much noise! They are easily startled and may attempt to spew verbal diarrhoea over you. Please do not stick your limbs inside the cage, as the idiot may defecate on them. Refrain from throwing peanuts at the idiot. Thank you.
1) Look how wrong you are. Logistics will be *useful* in large fleet fights, because ships won't be WTF-ALPHA'd by hundreds of ships at once. In fact, they'll be MORE USEFUL. You are wrong. 2) Have you read this thread? Can you read? Link the mechanic to fleet/corp/alliance/a new friendly system and since lock time will depend on number of targets currently lockING, not already lockED, the system becomes unexploitable. Wait, too many syllables for you. Sorry. 3) Sounds good to me. There'll still be blobs, but they can't WTF-pwn smaller fleets while taking no casualties. The splitting of target priorities sounds good. People will still be alpha'd, but not by hundreds of ships at once. 4) When no one can lock? Really? The idea is to stop EVERYONE from locking ONE. Not EVERYONE from EVERYONE. 5) Look at your stupidity increase. Suddenly, the time for 800 Maelstroms to lock a Rifter decreases from 5 minutes to 4! Astounding! Meanwhile, the other (intelligent) fleet has about 50 Maelstroms already locked and being fired at! 6) Hate for the Falcon will be equal. Locks will be equally easy to obtain for a competent fleet. The secret is to have dozens of targets, instead of one. 7) OH CHRIST. THE IDIOCY. THE SHEER IDIOCY. I. CAN'T. WITHSTAND IT. AAAARGHHHHHHHH. What if shield/armour rep drones don't count towards the locked target count? Oh, but that's too obvious and you're clearly as dense as a singularity.
TL;DR You are a terrible poster and human being.
And, Rel'k, this is a video game. It makes sense as long as fiction supports it. Gameplay is secondary to logic, and logic can change in games. Fights won't necessarily last longer. Tactics will change. Squads need targets each, and multiple targets will be dying at once instead of one at a time. You know, like every single EVE trailer, naval warfare, aerial warfare, ground warfare and everything else. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
52
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Posted - 2012.01.11 09:23:00 -
[156] - Quote
As for how it works now, I guess I meant to say in constellation(more of a hold the front/line thing not a you stand on the corners side of the room thing.
SI-FI!!!! It gots the word SCIENCE, make it make sense like science. Don't tell me it works the opposite of real life like magic. This is not fantasy.
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DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
757
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Posted - 2012.01.11 09:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:SI-FI!!!! It gots the word SCIENCE, make it make sense like science. Don't tell me it works the opposite of real life like magic. This is not fantasy.
Here's your required serving of science for the day:
Quote: Gravimetric - The micro-scale gravimeter probes used to measure their own acceleration towards the target ship, thus calculate gravity, begin to collide with other probes due to the gravity field drawing them together.
Ladar - The huge number of lasers colliding with the target ship interferes with the wavelengths of each beam. The changed wavelength leads to unexpected diffraction occurs as the lasers pass through the gaps of the target ship's shields, leading to scrambled data.
Radar - Radio waves, upon passing through the target ship's shields, slightly deteriorate in their consistency and trajectory, as they are refracted. As this deterioration takes place, the shields of the target ship begin to vibrate ever so slightly, leading to greater deterioration experienced per extra radio wave.
Magnetometric (Measuring magnitude and direction of EM field) - Electromagnetic pulses fired off by the ship targeting interfere with other ships attempting to target. False EM fields are detected as target ships, but cannot be verified, leading to a greater amount of target validation being necessary, thus increasing lock time.
I'll tell you that the above explanations are more scientific than some other things in EVE. I didn't even need to pull out the 'nanites & Jovians' wildcard. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
52
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Posted - 2012.01.11 09:42:00 -
[158] - Quote
But what about the human angle? The reactors and propulsion we use release radiation, but the first thing the humans of Eden obviously did was shield them selves from it. If in the devilment stage this problem came up it would have had to have been dealt with before governments and markets would endorse it. As it stands to day all electronics in most places fallow guidelines about interfering with other devises. Its not just as simple as fluffing up some theory of the how, you also need to explain how Billions of scientist, engineers, politicians, and sales reps went along with it as well. Even if its just a new development the people would still begin stepping in and fixing it as its a problem to both safety and security.
Also no wizards |
Elistea
G U N G N I R Y G G D R A S I L
29
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Posted - 2012.01.11 10:30:00 -
[159] - Quote
Love the idea.
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
53
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Posted - 2012.01.11 11:11:00 -
[160] - Quote
Ugg there are limitless ways to fix the problem other than "Im mad and don't like it so I want it smashed". This is after all a role playing game about humans, in the future, in space. So they should innovate, improve, invent. I would rather hear of a new T2 that employs some device that punish large groups buy reducing there Scan rez or incoming damage than stuppiding down the game so Timy stops crying about his ship loss. Because then Billy starts crying about how it was his turn and you can't change the rules now. We have to keep in mind that the problem that this is trying to fix is 60% our fault. We blob because its safer to be a fish in a big school than a wolf in a small pack. It's just easer to get 200 people to show up at the tower of London around noon with running shoes than to get 200 people to all dress like different pok'emon go in groups of 4 to 50 places at 3pm face south and say "the aristocrats" at 3:33pm. This fix will do no better than the HP buff did at not being the insta dead, all it will do is swing the pendulum in favor of armour tanks, as they can fit more SeBo II and Se Link II's. |
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Defecanda
LulzWaffe
37
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Posted - 2012.01.11 11:29:00 -
[161] - Quote
It doesn't have to be a linear or pure log penalty. You could set a minimum lock requirement to take effect that would not penalize small gang tactics, but would be detrimental to blobs. "You FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL to jump because you are cloaked . . . ." |
Defecanda
LulzWaffe
37
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Posted - 2012.01.11 11:35:00 -
[162] - Quote
Actually, a good idea would be to set the penalty to every 3 targets; i.e. only modify lock time at 4th target lock, 7th target lock, 10 target lock ,etc . . .. "You FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL to jump because you are cloaked . . . ." |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
53
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Posted - 2012.01.11 12:18:00 -
[163] - Quote
Why so all fleet fits add Se Bo II and Se Link II's? You make and sell them......don't cha. |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
37
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Posted - 2012.01.11 12:33:00 -
[164] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:No.
Just no.
If your fleet is linked up to the point of knowing what someone else's hull, armor and shield amounts are, you WILL be sharing targeting data. In fact, if anything, you'd get better lock on times as the amount of sensors on target would light up the target like a goddamn christmas tree in the middle of July.
I mean, let's go with the basics.
There are four sensor types in EVE that can be boiled down to this. Gravometric - LOOKIT THAT. THAT SHIP HAS ENOUGH MASS TO DISTORT GRAVITY. ITS RIGHT THERE. LADAR - IT SHOOTS A LASER AT THE TARGET. DOES THE LASER COME BACK? YES? TARGET LOCKED. RADAR - SHOOT SOME RADIOS AT IT. BLAST THEM WITH BAD JPOP. DOES IT COME BACK EVEN WORSE? YES? TARGET LOCKED. whateverthefuckthe Minmatar use... Probably a guy in a crow's nest or something with a telescope screaming rage and obscenities down a copper tube to the guys in gunnery who use hand cranks to rotate and align the turret. REGARDLESS. IS IT THERE? YES. SHOOT IT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS NOT ****** THERE YOU ******************* SHOOT IT. ****!
As for "Blob Tactics." All I hear is "Baww, the enemy had more people and a good doctrine."
Which is to say, They fight like Soldiers. Professionals who use proven gear using proven tactics. Stop fighting like warriors who are in it for the dickwagging contests. Want to fight the blob? Get your own fleet together. Establish a doctrine, get people in the ships that are required for the doctrine and go from there.
"But that's blob warfare!" So? Deal with it. Stop playing WoW in a fleet fight and start playing Soldiers in a Fleet Fight and you might actually get somewhere.
Killmails are the worse feature in EVE.
Yeah, because every battle in history, everyone shoots at the same person, one at a time.
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
53
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Posted - 2012.01.11 12:38:00 -
[165] - Quote
Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanks |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
759
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 12:49:00 -
[166] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanks Ahahahahha Ahahahahha Ahahhahaha Nope! |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
38
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Posted - 2012.01.11 13:13:00 -
[167] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanks
Yeah, war news reports are full of stories about 300 Stealth Bombers taking out one tank. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1262
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Posted - 2012.01.11 13:15:00 -
[168] - Quote
Miss Whippy wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanks Yeah, war news reports are full of stories about 300 Stealth Bombers taking out one tank.
Well if that tank can survive 299 Stealth Bombers .. then maybe.. depend on price tag of that flight |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
234
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 13:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen. 1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs. 2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic. 3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence. 4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it. 5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships. 6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more. 7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well. Status Quo preserved. There's a reason why this thread died in Ships And Modules.
holy ******* **** man and the glass is half empty I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1265
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 13:55:00 -
[170] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen. 1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs. 2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic. 3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence. 4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it. 5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships. 6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more. 7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well. Status Quo preserved. There's a reason why this thread died in Ships And Modules. holy ******* **** man and the glass is half empty
Real Questin is ? Does this glass exist or is it just projection of my brain ? I can touch it but do i really touch the object or is it just another projection
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Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
234
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Posted - 2012.01.11 14:13:00 -
[171] - Quote
understand CCP codes the game none of you do*, no one has the right to dictate how a part of it should work, unless there a dev, so unless you have a blue tag next to your name there's no way for you to know whether it would work or not.
*( and if you do man the hell up and voice your support/or say why it wont work and stop posting on an alt) I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
238
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Posted - 2012.01.11 14:54:00 -
[172] - Quote
I'm no fan of blobs, but if blobbing is to be changed, it should be changed by giving players incentive to not blob - some sort of tactical advantage from splitting up your forces.
Implementing an illogical, fake "stacking penalty" system like this screams un-sandbox like and desperate. They were more prepared than you; they mustered up more might than you; why shouldn't they wipe the floor with you? |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
55
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Posted - 2012.01.11 15:03:00 -
[173] - Quote
Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank................. Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo. I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play. |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
38
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Posted - 2012.01.11 15:08:00 -
[174] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank................. Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo. I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play.
Wow, it's amazing how much utter garbage you just wrote there. Amazing. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1267
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Posted - 2012.01.11 15:08:00 -
[175] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank................. Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo. I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play.
It is questionable.. majority of blob are carebears. They do it because its required .. Core "pvpErs" prefer real "fight" where the single pilot got its meaning. And they know what they are doing. They are good at it..
If the game-play was changed in the direction of "fun" than it could work. But many people take this game too seriously to allow something like fun into their "e-world"
Sure .. one of the most important rule for PvP is to know what and when engage .. and what you should avoid.. Getting upper hand is way for victory... But by adding "actuall competition" into the equation .. where some challenge is presented.. its more giving but less forgiving. People just try too hard to cut out the "challenge of combat" part .. and instead they are adding so called "meta-gaming" challenge.
PS. I am horrible pilot, i will always lose and die horribly. |
Grateler
The People's Liberation Front of Offugen
10
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Posted - 2012.01.11 15:51:00 -
[176] - Quote
Why does this have to stop people fleeting ?
Why cant it jus tbe if you target an untargeted ship you do so at 100% speed, if you target a ship already tarteted you will target it at 101% speed, if it has 100 locks on it then its 200% etc
Doesnt matter if the ships doing the targetting are in the same fleet or not.
Or am I missing something obvious? |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1269
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Posted - 2012.01.11 15:58:00 -
[177] - Quote
Grateler wrote:Why does this have to stop people fleeting ?
Why cant it jus tbe if you target an untargeted ship you do so at 100% speed, if you target a ship already tarteted you will target it at 101% speed, if it has 100 locks on it then its 200% etc
Doesnt matter if the ships doing the targetting are in the same fleet or not.
Or am I missing something obvious?
As i understand it its not about current locks on the target.. but about numbers which are currently locking said target.. So if 500 ships tries to lock one ship all of them will be penalized.. if the 10 people locks one target they do it at normal rate .. then other 10 people can lock it at same time window.. +/-
just as i understand it. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 16:20:00 -
[178] - Quote
Giving incentives to smaller groups will be the only successful way to brake up large fleets priming targets. Any form of decentive will just result in countering the penalty. This is why fleet fights are this big. The last time they did this they gave us the HP buff and now it takes even more ships for fights. Don't buy it look it up. Don't think concentrated fire is used on vehicles look it up. Don't think the easiest most efficient route will be used always buy a human, look it up. Think I'm a care bear, look it up. Think I fly in large groups, look it up. Or I guess we can just pretend that tomorrow if this happened the next day wouldn't be filled with new fleet fits full of Se Bo II's and Se Link II's, and fleet doctrine wouldn't change to locking up 4-6 targets instead of 2 at a time. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
234
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:02:00 -
[179] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Giving incentives to smaller groups will be the only successful way to brake up large fleets priming targets. Any form of decentive will just result in countering the penalty. This is why fleet fights are this big. The last time they did this they gave us the HP buff and now it takes even more ships for fights. Don't buy it look it up. Don't think concentrated fire is used on vehicles look it up. Don't think the easiest most efficient route will be used always buy a human, look it up. Think I'm a care bear, look it up. Think I fly in large groups, look it up. Or I guess we can just pretend that tomorrow if this happened the next day wouldn't be filled with new fleet fits full of Se Bo II's and Se Link II's, and fleet doctrine wouldn't change to locking up 4-6 targets instead of 2 at a time. '
u mad about something?
your posting seams like your mad someone is suggesting to change the way fighting is done away from the the now standard blob fighting we have now.
if you don't like this idea make your own to change the blob....
but i know the answer to that you don't want the blob to change its all you know how to do, and you all feel threatened by any change to the way fighting is done in YOUR world. no matter if its in the name of Fun.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade Gryphon League
22
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Posted - 2012.01.11 19:07:00 -
[180] - Quote
On another note, does this effect the Passive targeting module? |
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