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How to manipulate the market average yourself.

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SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.12 12:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Taikun Potty mouths like yours have no place in these forums, game, or in life in general IMO. Taikun hi taikun - may i suggest you grow some balls and stop being afraid of the big bad man saying bad words? you are whats wrong with our weak society today thanks ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:19:00 - [32] Originally by: SiJira hi taikun - may i suggest you grow some balls and stop being afraid of the big bad man saying bad words? you are whats wrong with our weak society today thanks More off-topic trolling from you I see. You are getting quite a reputation for doing this SiJira. Only a matter of time before a Mod comes along and deletes your off-topic, unwarrented and trolling posts. Hopefull your account as well. Thanks, Taikun <---Warm and snug by the fireside in YA0 where carebear industrialists can't hurt me. ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.07.13 03:47:00 - [33] Hasn't this thread passed it's forum half life yet? Please, let it die and let's get on to actually discussing things instead of this back and forth childish pot-shotting of each other. Originally by: Taikun Taikun <---Warm and snug by the fireside in YA0 where carebear industrialists can't hurt me. May I point out that I know for a fact that Hawkblade is not an industrialist. The carebear part may be valid although from times that we've shared corps and/or alliances Hawkblade has always been rather gung-ho about any pvp action. (old inside joke here btw) Of course in my mind, the matter of HB vs. Taikun, I'm biased. I doubt such a contest would ever come to pass though. Quote: The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks!
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Motivated Prophet So, who's figured it out now? MP Well done. Of course I never claimed to have done it myself. Infact if I may remind you of: Originally by: Taikun I am speculating on how it could be done if one was so inclined. So, is this an effective tool in the market pirates bag of tricks MP? Taikun P.S. Watch out for the flaming flamers. They don't like it when you post HOW to do something. Heck look what happened to me and I was just speculating. I'd really rather you just stop posting. As I said, you tend to have, time and again, ideas that are just far enough off from the correct tactic that anyone attempting to pursue them will lose billions. These forums are not the place for even these mid-level marketing tactics. If you really don't have enough time or inclination to pursue them, pass them on to some trusted friends in-game. Make your friends make money, not your enemies. Now, all that friendly advice aside, if you start ineptly stumbling towards a tactic I'm actively using in a high-volume market, I'll come to wherever you are and eat you out of house and home. Suicide-ganking freighters isn't easy any more, but it's sure-as-hell still doable. And I own a prototype cloak BPO. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:39:00 - [35] Originally by: Motivated Prophet These forums are not the place for even these mid-level marketing tactics. These forums are for... and I quote: "This is for discussing the market, both how it works and to share market tips" I am engaging others in discussing HOW the market works. Whether I am right or wrong I am discussing them and have the express right to do so. If that angers you, take it up with CCP Wrangler for it is he who made the stipluation. Not I. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Motivated Prophet These forums are not the place for even these mid-level marketing tactics. These forums are for... and I quote: "This is for discussing the market, both how it works and to share market tips" I am engaging others in discussing HOW the market works. Whether I am right or wrong I am discussing them and have the express right to do so. If that angers you, take it up with CCP Wrangler for it is he who made the stipluation. Not I. Taikun You misunderstand. I'm saying you should not be distributing these sorts of tactics on these forums. If you had ten billion isk in your wallet right now, and felt the compulsive need to give it away, would you really give: 1b to SirMolle 3b to an isk seller 1b to Nate Hammertown, or whoever's in charge of the Goons these days 2b to Tyrrax Thorrk 1b to Currin Trading and 2b to the first guy who speaks in Local after you jump into Jita? And, if you'd rather give that money to those people instead of corpmates, why are you in your corporation in the first place? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:36:00 - [37] Edited by: Taikun on 13/07/2007 15:37:59 Originally by: Motivated Prophet You misunderstand. I'm saying you should not be distributing these sorts of tactics on these forums. If you had ten billion isk in your wallet right now, and felt the compulsive need to give it away, would you really give: 1b to SirMolle 3b to an isk seller 1b to Nate Hammertown, or whoever's in charge of the Goons these days 2b to Tyrrax Thorrk 1b to Currin Trading and 2b to the first guy who speaks in Local after you jump into Jita? And, if you'd rather give that money to those people instead of corpmates, why are you in your corporation in the first place? MP Ahhh I see what you are driving at. Well... my exposing these tactics proably has alot to do with the fact I have far outgrown them. My capital base and isk production is way more than I need to pay for my multiple industial accounts as well as any losses I have on my PvP accounts. I supply several corps across multiple alliances with incomes to grow succesfully. I am bored. I guess basically this is now (at the moment) the forum (pardon the pun) in which I find pleasure in this game. Helping those understand the mechanics of the market and how to use it to their advantage. I don't delude myself that everyone in the game reads my posts... but those that do usally gets a market advantage for doing so. My eve mail is clear evidence that I am helping others. That is why (I guess) I am posting these tactics and I hope that answers your question/curiosity. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.07.14 15:49:00 - [38] Hasn't anyone figured out he's just RP'ing his idea of a "hardcore capitalist tycoon" yet? At least, that's the only reasonable explanation I can come up with.
KaiH GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.16 21:57:00 - [39] One of you play, and the rest of you are getting played. Please keep it up, this is highly entertaining. (I specially enjoyed the threats) Do take the time to consider; "Why am I reacting in this way?" "Why does this upset me?" You may find the answer surprising.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.17 00:08:00 - [40] Keep on topic please. This thread is about manipulating the market average. I see market average manipulation behaviour all the time in Jita. Norally everyone goes to 4-4 and puts up station buy and sell order there. However, some go to a different station in the system and put up one or two buy order signifigantly higher than the rest of the system. If you put up a buy order higher than those two 'marker' buy orders they will immedialtly get filled by someone watching the market in 4-4. Someone is artifically making a baseline well above the current market clearing price to get more isk out of their inventory stock. I saw this several times last week and forgot to screeencap it all. check out out and make sure you don't get caught by it next time you are in Jita buying a stack of mins. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.17 03:30:00 - [41] uhh... i don't understand this fox news tone here...? it's basic understanding of the market and using the forge's mineral market as an example is the worst idea ever; too many "spams" necessary to make a difference. -
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.17 07:50:00 - [42] Originally by: Roemy Schneider uhh... i don't understand this fox news tone here...? O'Reilly won't tolerate fools who meander and won't address his questions/topic. Why should I in this thread? The topic is clear. It should be posted to, or not at all. Originally by: Roemy Schneider it's basic understanding of the market and using the forge's mineral market as an example is the worst idea ever; too many "spams" necessary to make a difference. Basic understanding of the market dynamics is what many people specifically lack. Just because you know something, doesn't mean it is common knowledge or obvious to all. My post was directed towards an overall discussion on how to manipulate market averages yourself. You are welcome to clarify why you feel the Forge is a bad example to give where I feel it is in fact the best given the number of 0.01 isk bumpers playing the market. As it stands your comment is nothing more than an opinion without substance. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:11:00 - [43] this is not an opinion; merely the definition of "average": when 10billion trit are being traded and 4000 exchanges take place - every day - it takes a lot more than one 10bil manipulation to throw off the 5-day-average towards profitable dimensions. so you pushed the avg by 10% for a cost of >100mil and most of your competitors are still around... no, you really want quieter regions for such a thing and definately with a lot less volume - but just enough to make a 100mil+ profit before the market recovers from the bump as importeurs will swarm in within less than a day. -
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.07.17 20:50:00 - [44] The correct answer is to shun. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 01:58:00 - [45] Originally by: Roemy Schneider this is not an opinion; merely the definition of "average": when 10billion trit are being traded and 4000 exchanges take place - every day - it takes a lot more than one 10bil manipulation to throw off the 5-day-average towards profitable dimensions. so you pushed the avg by 10% for a cost of >100mil and most of your competitors are still around... no, you really want quieter regions for such a thing and definately with a lot less volume - but just enough to make a 100mil+ profit before the market recovers from the bump as importeurs will swarm in within less than a day. Right... I see what you mean. However my subsequent post about moving an market average of was referenced in Jita specifically as it probably would only work there. They make a station only bid outside of 4-4 in to hopes of sucking someone into a 0.01 isk war to push up the price. Once they push the prices up of bidders they swoop in and sell their stockpile for an extra 0.20-0.50 isk per unit in 4-4. Or more! My follow up post was a different tactic than my OP but based upon making coin just the same. I see you have failed to distinguish the two from each other. As for my OP and Jita, I agree. Too much market volume for one person to move it signifigantly. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 02:04:00 - [46] Originally by: Shadarle The correct answer is to shun. If only you would in my threads. You add so very little. I threw down the gauntlet. Start you own market thread that includes information of value for traders/marketers. Just one. Lets see what you have got to say. We all know you can criticise and complain in my threads... now lets see if you are a more substative charactor and can actually bring knowledge to the table. Time for us to see the 'market master' at work wouldn't you say? Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.18 08:37:00 - [47] ok, so... higher system-buy-order to lure bidders into profitable sell ranges... you're so eager to keep us on topic but what exactly does this have to do with the manipulation of the average? i did not "fail to distinguish" - i merely ignored an unfitting post. but sure, if you want to list all sorts of basic tools one learns on a flea market at the age of five, be my guest. just tone down your amazement. and keep it in one thread, plz. keep that one clean and informative and accept correction here and there - as you can see, your flame frenzy just made more people pick on you :o -
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.18 10:33:00 - [48] Edited by: Taikun on 18/07/2007 10:41:13 Originally by: Roemy Schneider ok, so... higher system-buy-order to lure bidders into profitable sell ranges... you're so eager to keep us on topic but what exactly does this have to do with the manipulation of the average? What is an average? That's right... the average clearing price of those buying and selling over a period of time. By pushing up the clearing prices and dumping at that higher price you are changing the average. Artifically increasing it by making competition for minerals where there was none before because the buyer is competeting with the seller. In other words... manipulating market averages by yourself. Which is funnily enough... the TOPIC of this thread. Geeze... does everything have to be explained to you in in sign language and semifore backed up with smoke signals? Wait a sec... you 'ignored' my secon post but felt confident enough in your position to blow smoke up our collective. You have zero clue about what you are posting about because you whined about Jita while it was in post you claim to have 'ignored'. So what are you? Forgetful or just a liar? Or is it just that you obviously didn't understand the implications of the two seperate tactics and how they effectly result in the same thing? I am betting on the latter rather than the former. Stop wasting my, and everyone else's time if you are going to mouth off and claim 'I didn't read' when you are shown up for not have jack knowledge about the subject. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:42:00 - [49] wow, how common. sacrificing grace for power. i guess you like to have the last word. good luck with that. (it seems to be very popular these days...)
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.19 07:32:00 - [50] Originally by: jongalt wow, how common. sacrificing grace for power. i guess you like to have the last word. good luck with that. (it seems to be very popular these days...) Are all your posts as equally worthless as this one? If you can not even attempt to address the thread in question kindly do us all a favour and simply do not post. We already have more than enough 'Roemy Schneider's' polluting this thread with moronic statements after adminitting to not reading posts. I'd prefer not to wade through your steaming pile as well. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Karanth Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.07.19 08:07:00 - [51] It is not spam to equate "strategies" like these ones to what they are: revelations as far-reaching as learning that you need income to make profit. As has been said, anyone who has an attention span should have these things become quite obvious to them very fast. The people who don't camp gates, or mine asteroids. (I love in-jokes.) Market PvP isn't like anything else in EVE, and while I'll admit, my experience tends to be on the losing end, I would rather learn the tricks myself. That's the main reason I check your threads; I am in no danger of learning anything new here, except seeing the rabid sides of some of our mercantile friends. Free beer for those who mod my sig! There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth pushes the other mods out of the way Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips IT WAS ME, MUHAHAHA. -Hango How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn always fashionably late - Deckard
Cade Burey Amarr Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation	Posted - 2007.07.19 16:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Motivated Prophet As I said, you tend to have, time and again, ideas that are just far enough off from the correct tactic that anyone attempting to pursue them will lose billions. MP Maybe thats his plan? Cause other inexperienced traders (like myself, still haven't made that first billion ) to lose billions, therefore leaving the market less crowded so he can move in.
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.20 00:55:00 - [53] Edited by: Taikun on 20/07/2007 00:55:32 Originally by: Cade Burey Maybe thats his plan? Cause other inexperienced traders (like myself, still haven't made that first billion ) to lose billions, therefore leaving the market less crowded so he can move in. Oh yes... you have uncovered my post to 'solo' empire trading. This thread is a discussion on moving averages. Got any ideas about that? How to do it? On a massive or minimal scale? What about how to use it to make money? How about how to use it to destroy competition? How about doing it to skew ship prices? Block weekend builders and prevent the rush on building slots? I see opportunity abounding for using this and similar stactics. Surely I can't be the only one. Some for profit, some for comeptitive attack, some for fun. If this is a discussion forum about the market, so discuss the market. Not my motives for my posts. To do otherwise is trolling. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.

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