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Zxenis	Posted - 2007.07.12 10:10:00 - [1] First of all, is there much demand for these type of pilots in PVP. I was leaning towards getting into a Manticore because it was a stealth bomber but then saw recon ships, cruiser size stealth ships. Can these function as stealth bombers too? Kinda confused in how recon vs covert ops differ as I have only been in the game a few months and am still in empire just doing a few missions while waiting for skills. I definitely want to get into PVP once i get more skills and a better ship. Do recon ships have the ability to contribute to a PVP fight? Thnx
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.07.12 10:22:00 - [2] Recon ships are great for PVP. Some are better in gang, and some work great solo. Covert Ops frigates are made for probing, and can be very usefull for finding safespotted targets. You would need good skills in probing though. And dont attack anything. Stealth bombers have allways been a toy. After the revelation 2 patch they have been redesigned a bit, and are now more balanced among eachother, and have the possibiluty to deploy bombs. Bombs cost 20M+ to build but can do insane amounts of damage (just not very much to each target), and you are very likely to lose your ship when you deploy one. I still think SBs are toys, but I might change my mind after I see someone come up with a good role for them.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 10:24:00 - [3] Edited by: Jennai on 12/07/2007 10:26:35 Edited by: Jennai on 12/07/2007 10:24:59 there's always room for stealth ships in pvp gangs. covops frigate is just a scout. it warps very fast, can warp while cloaked, and will die to pretty much anything if it gets uncloaked because it has no tank and minimal weapons. most covops pilots will also have a probe launcher fitted. stealth bomber packs a hell of a punch for a frigate, but it can't warp while cloaked and has no tank. also the bombs are ridiculously expensive so most people just use missiles. good for harassing miners or sitting on a gate until a hauler comes through, but otherwise not so great because they're so easy to kill. recon is basically a bigger covops with combat capability. they get nice EW bonuses, can warp while cloaked, and can fit a decent tank and weaponry. however, you can't fit a probe launcher without gimping the rest of your setup because it uses so much cpu. they're quite popular for pvp, especially now that covops cloaks are cheap. training for recons also lets you fly force recon cruisers. they can't fit covops cloak, but they have the same EW bonuses and better resists etc.
Psorion Absolute Wrath Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:00:00 - [4] Covert OPs : Eyes of the fleet, great scouts (Can warp cloaked using covert ops cloak). Very critical for any fleet/defensive gang, however you have to have nerves of iron (ever jump into a 20+ hostile gatecamp and get away?) StealthBomber : A gang of these waiting on a bubbled gate can gang alot of solo ships. ImHO, this is the Covert Ops hunter, as you can wait quietly for your prey. With the addition of the Bomb these ships are being used more and more for suicide bombers. Cloaked and AFK at a system near you...
Ryan Darkwolf Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.07.12 16:56:00 - [5] I thought that one of the recon (combat or force, can't remember which) couldn't warp cloacked... ----------------------------------------------- Burning with wrath, He stepped down from the Heavens To judge the unworthy, To redeem the pure.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Ryan Darkwolf I thought that one of the recon (combat or force, can't remember which) couldn't warp cloacked... Combat recons can't fit the covertops cloak, thus they can't warp while cloaked.
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:05:00 - [7] I've been hearing reports now that with overloading extending webber range you can easily snag foolish interceptor pilots with 2x webs and 1 volley them with 3 cruise launchers and some BCU's. I have not gotten around to trying this myself but well, look at faction ammo of the damage type your ship gets a second 25% damage bonus too. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Gaige Gamba	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Ryan Darkwolf I thought that one of the recon (combat or force, can't remember which) couldn't warp cloacked... Combat recons can't fit the covertops cloak, thus they can't warp while cloaked. Yup, and at the same time they tend to severely out-dps their force counterparts (unless we're talking Curse/Pilgrim). Also, force recons are the ones with the cyno fuel bonuses. Recons are very ftw solo and in small gangs, though in a fleet or decent sized roaming gang, expect to be primaried very, very quickly.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:30:00 - [9] That's why you fly a cloaking recon in a larger gang, and decloak after all hell has broken loose :) EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Gaige Gamba	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:34:00 - [10] Edited by: Gaige Gamba on 12/07/2007 17:34:07 Oh, but a quick question on cloaks: A cloaked recon or covops decloaks if another ship gets within 2000m of it. But what if the other ship is cloaked as well? Do both un-cloak? Or does nothing happen and both slide past eachother, blissfully unaware? Never thought of this situation before now.

Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:35:00 - [11] both uncloak afaik. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Vorketh Mordanil Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:51:00 - [12] Both do uncloak... but you can quickly hit your MWD / AB and recloak! Your modules stay active until they would next cycle at which point they turn off, so you'll be cloaked and fast once you get out of their range! Typically, because of the recalibration delay, if two cloaked ships both uncloak, the smart person will recloak to gain the upper hand again.... but this almost never ever ever happens. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Insidi Us Amarr Suicidal Mercenaries The Makhai	Posted - 2007.07.12 18:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Gaige Gamba Also, force recons are the ones with the cyno fuel bonuses. I was flying my Pilgrim around in lowsec a couple weeks back, and a Cyno field opened up on the overview. I warped to it cloaked, and was utterly dismayed to find another Pilgrim opening the field. Why would anyone actually risk an 100m ISK (barebones) ship for a cyno? Does the fuel amount saved actually make it cheaper to use a throw-away Pilgrim (hurts to say those words together)? ----------- Fight the blob!
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:03:00 - [14] No, that person is just stupid. You have no idea just how many recons I have killed in 0.0 outside of outposts who were opening a cyno field and sitting there completely helpless. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Ryysa No, that person is just stupid. You have no idea just how many recons I have killed in 0.0 outside of outposts who were opening a cyno field and sitting there completely helpless. They didn't undock to remote rep? -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Zxenis	Posted - 2007.07.13 19:55:00 - [16] hrmm, ok, thanks for all the info. Since I'd like to get into PVP I'll go the standard route of getting into a ship that can fire something at someone and maybe get into stealth bombing later. I'm not to fond of Recon and being a suicide bomber doesnt seem like much fun. Maybe if i were able to stick around as a ghost to watch the aftermath but if I get ganked in a pod we automatically zone back to a base.
Tacitus Krekt The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.14 00:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Brodde Dim Recon ships are great for PVP. Some are better in gang, and some work great solo. Covert Ops frigates are made for probing, and can be very usefull for finding safespotted targets. You would need good skills in probing though. And dont attack anything. Stealth bombers have allways been a toy. After the revelation 2 patch they have been redesigned a bit, and are now more balanced among eachother, and have the possibiluty to deploy bombs. Bombs cost 20M+ to build but can do insane amounts of damage (just not very much to each target), and you are very likely to lose your ship when you deploy one. I still think SBs are toys, but I might change my mind after I see someone come up with a good role for them. Stealth bombers are quite possibly the best "surprise" ships in regards to destroying enemy tacklers. The ability to pop small ships in single volleys - before they even have a chance to react - is a very efficient way in protecting large groups of "heavy" ships.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.14 01:59:00 - [18] Get a covops, those things are invincible. I've flown mine through massive gatecamps, among vast enemy dreadnaught fleets, adn a whole bunch of other stuff. I lost two though, both for doing something stupid. One I tried to tackle a dominix with, that was palin stupid :( The other I warped into a fleet of 5 dreadnaughts, 2 carriers, and support. I was perfectly safe at first, then i decided to use ctrl+f9 to look at the preety beams in all their glory, unfortunatley I must have double clicked in space somewhere becasue my ship exploded.
Ten GuMarr Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.07.15 00:27:00 - [19] Quick Question or two: I am training up for Covert Ops with the intention of flying a Purifier Stealth Bomber. Would it be prudent to also purchase an Anathema so I have a craft that can stealth-warp or would this be a waste of cash? My reason for chosing the Purifier is that I currently fly an Inquisitor and therefore my Missile Skills are pretty good for an Amarrian (155k SP in that catagory so far and climbing). My gunnery skills suck ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -[sig]- ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Aiming for Mining Barge V for Money. Stealth Bomber for Fun. Covetor and Purifier already in the garage ready when I am (which wont be for a while).
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.15 01:19:00 - [20] For Force Recons not combat recons.. Whats the best force recon rail boat? Whats best missle boat? Can the Arazu be shield tanked? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master

VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.07.15 02:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Illyria Ambri For Force Recons not combat recons.. Whats the best force recon rail boat? Whats best missle boat? Can the Arazu be shield tanked? there is only one rail force recon - the Arazu, so it is both best and worst. And you don't want to shield tank an Arazu. You want to fill your mids with 2-3 RSD's since that's what the ship was designed for. The only force recon that uses missiles is the Falcon and it is absulte crap compared to the others. The best force recons in order are: Pilgrim, Rapier, Arazu, ............................................................................................... Falcon. Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
Litus Arowar Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2007.07.15 06:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Ten GuMarr Quick Question or two: I am training up for Covert Ops with the intention of flying a Purifier Stealth Bomber. Would it be prudent to also purchase an Anathema so I have a craft that can stealth-warp or would this be a waste of cash? My reason for chosing the Purifier is that I currently fly an Inquisitor and therefore my Missile Skills are pretty good for an Amarrian (155k SP in that catagory so far and climbing). My gunnery skills suck purifier is a beautiful ship... it can fit a 400mm plate AND a BCU without sacrificing the rest of the setup... gorgeous Originally by: Benn Helmsman And btw: Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic?
Ten GuMarr Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2007.07.21 12:44:00 - [23] Thanks for the tip. Stares at EveMon hoping to intimidate the training into going faster


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