Originally by: Valrandir

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What happened with Red Army?

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Originally by: Blue Dice

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Maybe it would be a good idea to put up an actual sales thread?

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Originally by: Ionia

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It isnt clear to me what happened to Red Army shareholders? Were they simply given a refund at IPO price?

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Originally by: Ionia

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It isnt clear to me what happened to Red Army shareholders? Were they simply given a refund at IPO price?

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Originally by: Ionia

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Not trying to cause a fuss.. but someone has to ask this...

Did Red Army shareholders have the option to sell their shares back, or did they vote in favour of this change?

Did C-R-A shareholders vote in favour of this merger of sorts and letting an outside party have access to their isk?

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Originally by: Shadarle

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I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

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Originally by: Ionia

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I think any major change like this needs shareholder approval, its not exactly what they signed up for. If they vote yes, great, I am not suggesting they wont, but they have rights and they should have the right to make this decision.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Shadarle

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I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

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Im sorry, in my hurry of eating breakfast i forgot this post

While you are right. This profit is actually rather about 25% atm.
The profit might not be as big as it have been. But one of the sweet things about capital production is that its small-volume trades, which makes it more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly, without a risk of the market crashing in a matter of hours.

As i said. I will be providing some excel stuff to show the projected profits in a few hours.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Shadarle

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I'd love to see some more numbers on expected profit from the sales of the ships. Currently I have to say I think you're either fudging numbers or just inexperienced in capital production, but perhaps you have some secret as to how you'd make a great profit from this.

I think many people see a sale of 900 mil or 1 billion isk and think it's great to get 100-200 mil from the sale. Those big numbers blind people to the important number, which is the percentage profit. If your percentage profit is 10-15% on such a sale then you're really wasting your time imo. You can get 10-15% profit on many simple T1 items or just reselling minerals, so why spend all the effort on capital production.

I was in capital production myself and have stopped bothering because the profits dropped a lot. I think investors deserve a lot more details these days to justify investments in a capital ship production IPO.

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Im sorry, in my hurry of eating breakfast i forgot this post

While you are right. This profit is actually rather about 25% atm.
The profit might not be as big as it have been. But one of the sweet things about capital production is that its small-volume trades, which makes it more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly, without a risk of the market crashing in a matter of hours.

As i said. I will be providing some excel stuff to show the projected profits in a few hours.

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I look forward to seeing your numbers, but I would very much question you about the "more likely for you to turn the thing over fairly quickly" part.

How exactly is something that takes 2-3 weeks to build easy to turn over in a few hours? You need to buy up all the minerals, then build all the cap parts (takes about as long if not longer than the ship itself to build in some cases), and then build the ship 10+ days. That's a 14-20 day affair depending how many component BPO's you have. I hardly think a 14-20 day lag time between purchasing minerals and getting money for them is quick. Any other item you have a couple of days at most between buying minerals and selling the item. And with T1 items the price really doesn't change all that quickly in MOST cases.

When I was in capital production I had 3-4 of some of the component BPO's so I could drop that turnaround time substantially. I didn't want to wait weeks to build the parts. Of course it cost me an extra 15 billion to get em all... but that's another story. Another bonus is I made a profit on every one of those that I sold later The point is tho that it costs a lot of money to speed up cap production.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 17:26:46
I mashed together an excel sheet with all my data.
If you want to see them, contact me ingame, and ill mail you them.

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Originally by: Ionia

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 14/07/2007 17:26:46
I mashed together an excel sheet with all my data.
If you want to see them, contact me ingame, and ill mail you them.

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As we discussed in game, I have a few problems with your calculations.. this comes down to the difference between theory and practice (That is, in theory there is no difference between theory and practise, but in practise there is).

If any of my assumptions, or assumptions about your assumptions are wrong, I assume you will post back to correct them.

Problems I see...

1) You are using perfect build prices for the modules. This is obviously not going to be the case.

2) You are assuming you will be building and selling the modules non-stop.. 39 of each per month according to your spreadsheet. I can tell you from experience this will definately not be the case, the sales volume will be much much lower.

3) Mineral prices are based on market average in Jita. When dealing with capitals, volume is the name of the game, and volume minerals are expensive. The actual costs will be much higher.

4) You have based your capital component costs based on mineral prices yet you dont have the BPOs. To buy these it usually costs you around 1-1.5m per unit above build cost.

5) You assume 3 carriers built per month when realistically it will be 2 in most months and 3 in others.

6) You sales prices are way above the market value, in this very flooded market.

7) Your profits are 60% modules and 40% ships. In my practise, I count the ship profits as the profits and the module profits (because they are fairly minimal) as balance against things like having to buy mins above market price (due to quantity issues) and things of that nature. Basically I don't count them at all.

8) Your spreadsheet assumes that all of the BPOs are free. They have to be taken into account when working out the return on your investment. They cost a lot of isk.

Now, I hope I'm not being too hard on you, but I'll do a rough example..

Your Chimera is listed at 960m sale price which gives around 220m profit. If you adjust that number to market price of about 925m then your profit drops to 185m. If you then take into accout the cost of buying the components on top of mineral prices.. say at 1m each, with 131 components that drops the profits down to 54m.

Basically I think your forecasts have many very small assumptions that will fall over and they all add up to a large effect. The main one definately is the module sales profits though.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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1) These are numbers i get from ingame. So its fine
2) I also write that it depends on the sales. Anybody with a brain can figure that.
3) But these are checked that i can get high volumes of.
4) No. All but the dronebay BPO is based on a contract i have with a third party
5) This is a good point. But as written, i pay out every 33 day, which is around the time it takes to build 3 carriers, tho hauling could take time. If so, the isk not paid out for a sale that went 1 day over estimate, will go into next payout.
6) That is a valid point.
7) Im not sure where you wanna go with thats.
8) But what matters is actually what is paid out to the shareholders, against what they invested, right?

The majority of contracts ingame is about 950-960. So whats your point?

In regards to the modules forecast you assume that i have a full production, and sell them all at that price. And you, just aswell as i(And i even wrote it in the sheet i believe) know they we cant produce nor sell 24/7. Those are theoretical, and will vary.

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Originally by: Ionia

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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1) These are numbers i get from ingame. So its fine
2) I also write that it depends on the sales. Anybody with a brain can figure that.
3) But these are checked that i can get high volumes of.
4) No. All but the dronebay BPO is based on a contract i have with a third party
5) This is a good point. But as written, i pay out every 33 day, which is around the time it takes to build 3 carriers, tho hauling could take time. If so, the isk not paid out for a sale that went 1 day over estimate, will go into next payout.
6) That is a valid point.
7) Im not sure where you wanna go with thats.
8) But what matters is actually what is paid out to the shareholders, against what they invested, right?

The majority of contracts ingame is about 950-960. So whats your point?

In regards to the modules forecast you assume that i have a full production, and sell them all at that price. And you, just aswell as i(And i even wrote it in the sheet i believe) know they we cant produce nor sell 24/7. Those are theoretical, and will vary.

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1) My mistake, those numbers are ME0 build not perfect build, so I retract that point.

2) I know you wrote that it depends on sales, but if a forecast, no matter how theoretical, attributes over 60% of the profits coming from something that may bring in 10% of them, that should be pointed out. Assumptions must be realistic, not just the best possible scenario.

3) I'm not sure here, I asked you in game and you said you used the average price in Jita. So ???

4) Ok, if you have a contract for those at that price, great. Again, this was based off information I asked you in game.

5) Ok, 33 day payouts are good. But youll only build them in that time if you research PE to 1 on the prints. Are you actually going to do that? (hint: not a particularly good use of time). If they are at PE0 then the build time is around 11.5 days each, and with changeovers etc etc 12 days is the time most people use, so that would push it out to 36 days.

6) We're in agreement so nothing to say here :)

7) Basically its the same as the point I made above, forecasting the theoretical profits here doesnt work because of the market demand. You attribute the bulk of your profits to modules when they will only compromise a small percentage in reality.

8) So no shareholder isk is being used to purchase BPOs and there was no BPO for share exchanges? If so, and the corporation is in fact getting totally free bpos, then excellent :)

About the contract prices.. forum/channel/private sale prices are lower, obviously, and contract prices have to be higher because there are extra fees to pay (20m on a 1b contract is the base amount, reduced with skills and standings)

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

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I can confirm that its in fact Ricdic. I talked to him earlier, and thats indeed ricdic. I know because i do programming against that characters API stuff.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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I'm curious... if you are actually spending time researching PE1 (Which I hope for your shareholders sake you don't), then what is the ME on those BPO's?

I can't see how it is possibly worth getting PE1 on any cap BPO instead of getting another ME or even making copy in that time instead. Unless you happened to acquire BPO's with a very high ME, 4-5 or more, then it seems like ME is a much better route than PE.

I would like to get a look at that spreadsheet, ill contact you in-game when i can log in again later.

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Originally by: Ionia

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N
Did C-R-A shareholders vote in favour of this merger of sorts and letting an outside party have access to their isk?

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

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Yarr

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It would be good if ricdic replied with his main. Replying with a new character doesn't show that it's him, it only shows that it's a new character.

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Yarr

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yarr indeed :). Sorry to be so picky, I get a bit paranoid even if I'm not investing.

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Quick Update:

I currently have 1 Thanatos BPO in a corp hangar that LaVista has query access too. This bpo is currently under lockdown vote with C-R-A. Until the lockdown is placed, I am the only one with access too this BPO. Once the lockdown has completed, only a shareholder vote will release it from the corporate hangar.

I am waiting on the 1 Chimera BPO to be placed into the corp hangar so this too can udnergo the corporate vote. I believe this is currently tied up in production or research, but will be locked down as soon as I get my hands on it (may not be for a week if not before my holiday)

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Originally by: Nyphur

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I think it's unfair of me not to say why I am not investing. I think Ricdic has been placed in direct reach of too much public isk. If I acted as trustee for two more 20b IPOs, I would expect the same response from anyone else in the investment market. While the general public usually fail to look at the total amount of isk that has been invested in one person, I think most savvy investors instinctively know how much is too much.

I am not calling anyone's trustworthiness into question, just pointing out that people should keep in mind the TOTAL amount of isk a person could take upon going to the dark side. If you wouldn't trust them with that amount, avoid investing. I trust ricdic, I trust him with my the isk I've invested in him and I'd trust him with more but I make a point of not trusting anyone with values like 100b. Thanks to Treelox for that insight when I launched my first IPO.

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Thanks for your post. For the record, I am currently in charge of approximately 15b of my own investors funds. This is after almost 1 year of proven results, and years in the game. There are others in-game (cough-nyphur) who have been in the IPO game for far less time, and are offering IPO's without securities for funds closer to 80b+.

What makes you more trustworthy than me? Not trying to be harsh, but I just don't see why you think I cannot be trusted with more than the 15b or so worth of investor funds I currently hold.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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And to be quite fair, if he does run off with what he can get his fingers on from CAP4U, its only gonna be about 2-3 billion, which i HARDLY doubt that ricdic would scam for.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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And to be quite fair, if he does run off with what he can get his fingers on from CAP4U, its only gonna be about 2-3 billion, which i HARDLY doubt that ricdic would scam for.

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If he isn't in reach of most or all of the public assets in your IPO, that means he can't guarantee their safe return should something happen. This makes his position as trustee ineffective.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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If he isn't in reach of most or all of the public assets in your IPO, that means he can't guarantee their safe return should something happen. This makes his position as trustee ineffective.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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And to be quite fair, if he does run off with what he can get his fingers on from CAP4U, its only gonna be about 2-3 billion, which i HARDLY doubt that ricdic would scam for.

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If he isn't in reach of most or all of the public assets in your IPO, that means he can't guarantee their safe return should something happen. This makes his position as trustee ineffective.

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Actually, the 2 bpo's is quite alot compared to what have been invested. Its in the area of a good 50%. And i wouldnt be suprised with use of some very dirty game mechanics, he could get grab on a carrier or 2.

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Basically La Vista (once it all gets up and running) will be in hard possession of approximately 3-4b worth of stock at any one time. This will include his freighter, enough materials for 1-2 ships, and obviously the end product that he will resell.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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And to be quite fair, if he does run off with what he can get his fingers on from CAP4U, its only gonna be about 2-3 billion, which i HARDLY doubt that ricdic would scam for.

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If he isn't in reach of most or all of the public assets in your IPO, that means he can't guarantee their safe return should something happen. This makes his position as trustee ineffective.

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Actually, the 2 bpo's is quite alot compared to what have been invested. Its in the area of a good 50%. And i wouldnt be suprised with use of some very dirty game mechanics, he could get grab on a carrier or 2.

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But your IPO is for 20b. If you chose to go scam, how much would ricdic feasibly be able to get back for the investors? The ratio of invested isk to obtainable isk in this case determines the level of guarantee for investors Ricdic represents. The lower that value, the more people have to trust you. The higher that value, the less people have to trust you and the more people have to trust Ricdic. As Ricdic has an excellent reputation, him being able to recover as much assets as possible would be benefitial to your IPO.

Is it possible to increase the amount of isk Ricdic could retrieve? For example, could you keep assets other than bpos in his hands?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Atm he holds 1,45bill(Thanatos bpo, bought by myself, but theres been bought shares to cover this) and soon 945mill(Chimera bpo). A total of 235 shares have been sold to everyone else(This is not counting the share i have).
I do also have some other bpos i bought for my own money, which is about 1bill worth(Dronebay bpo and modules). I can pop them in aswell if people like.

So in public isk, he actually holds 101,9%(945 + 1450/2350). The rest is pretty much my personal wealth i put into this. So if ricdic does scam me, im majorly screwed over, to say it in a nice way.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Atm he holds 1,45bill(Thanatos bpo, bought by myself, but theres been bought shares to cover this) and soon 945mill(Chimera bpo). A total of 235 shares have been sold to everyone else(This is not counting the share i have).
I do also have some other bpos i bought for my own money, which is about 1bill worth(Dronebay bpo and modules). I can pop them in aswell if people like.

So in public isk, he actually holds 101,9%(945 + 1450/2350). The rest is pretty much my personal wealth i put into this. So if ricdic does scam me, im majorly screwed over, to say it in a nice way.

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So he can guarantee 100% value on this IPO if it turns scam or you go AWOL? Monoxon recently went AWOL (probably real life issues) and I was extremely pleased to see a corpmate of his returned all investment isk. Would the same happen for your IPO?

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Ultimately, I will be in possession of all assets that don't need to be held in hand. So bpo's should all be in the corp hangar, as well as materials for advanced purchases etc.

The IPO is currently in it's infancy and only a small amount of funds have been invested, so as those funds are used purchasing assets, the 'security kitty' is increased to compensate.

This might be where the confusion is, I would expect to be able to liquidate this IPO if all went pearshaped, to a value of all minus freighter+1*carrier+1*load of mats.

There should be no need for La Vista to be holding more than this at any one time, which totals approximately 4 billion isk.

Hope this clears things up.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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If you do have more suggestions on how to make it more secure, dont hesitate to state it.

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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Edited by: Aaron Mirrorsaver on 21/07/2007 03:56:54
there needs to be game mechanics written specifically, to make these types of investment secure. so that they can be enjoyed to the fullest and grow to their fullest potential.

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Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver

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Edited by: Aaron Mirrorsaver on 21/07/2007 03:56:54
there needs to be game mechanics written specifically, to make these types of investment secure. so that they can be enjoyed to the fullest and grow to their fullest potential. because with mechanics securing against scamming when you invest, then more people would invest.

p.s how much per share?

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Originally by: Astro Teller

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I would like to say I am now the proud owner of 20 shares of this fine corp!

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Originally by: Chasm Illyaki

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sent the funds last night. you have an eve mail.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I wanna thank everybody for making this possible

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I wanna thank everybody for making this possible

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No-one told me the golden globe was tonight!

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Originally by: Chasm Illyaki

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can we get an update on the our investment?

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Originally by: Chasm Illyaki

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bump

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 09/08/2007 10:24:33
Tiny update.

Another thanatos have left the assembly array, and is now far sale.
The last chimera for this cycle is leaving in a week from now!

We have had stable round of investment, with 440 shares sold!

Also we have we have had some good sales so far, which we will announce soonÖ.
But we are looking at more than 6% ROI!

Also we have had alot of unused capital, which was invested into some small scale production of acccesories, which have yielded a significant profit. I didnt keep track of the actual profit made exactly by this, so these isk have been going directly into further production. Next cycle i will keep track of these sales, and include them in our payouts.

So its looking *REALLY* good. Thanks to investors and people who have helped me(You know who you are)

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Can we get a firm buyback policy please? I want to know that if I invest I will be able to get out what I paid (subject to a penalty if needed) rather than have to rely solely on the stock market.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Can we get a firm buyback policy please? I want to know that if I invest I will be able to get out what I paid (subject to a penalty if needed) rather than have to rely solely on the stock market.

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My initial post stated that you can buy them back for 95% of the price(10millions).

But if people abuse this by buying alot of shares just before we pay out, and then buy them back after, i will change this.

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Originally by: Fury Banker

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Edited by: Fury Banker on 10/08/2007 17:07:18

Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Can we get a firm buyback policy please? I want to know that if I invest I will be able to get out what I paid (subject to a penalty if needed) rather than have to rely solely on the stock market.

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My initial post stated that you can buy them back for 95% of the price(10millions).

But if people abuse this by buying alot of shares just before we pay out, and then buy them back after, i will change this.

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I think you're looking at fixing the wrong part of the equation. The problem if that sort of abuse occurs is NOT that you're offering a 95% buy-back - it's that you're paying a month's dividends to someone who only bought the shares a day earlier.

EDIT: WHen's your next dividend date, by the way?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Fury Banker

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Edited by: Fury Banker on 10/08/2007 17:07:18

Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Can we get a firm buyback policy please? I want to know that if I invest I will be able to get out what I paid (subject to a penalty if needed) rather than have to rely solely on the stock market.

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My initial post stated that you can buy them back for 95% of the price(10millions).

But if people abuse this by buying alot of shares just before we pay out, and then buy them back after, i will change this.

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I think you're looking at fixing the wrong part of the equation. The problem if that sort of abuse occurs is NOT that you're offering a 95% buy-back - it's that you're paying a month's dividends to someone who only bought the shares a day earlier.

EDIT: WHen's your next dividend date, by the way?

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But its not like i can actually pay out to just SOME people, can i?

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Or he can leave it in it's current form and only change the system if it begins getting abused. Worst case, he drops the buyback offer to 90% so that way no-one can profit from the dividend day, but this restricts existing customers, so I definetly think it should be left as is and only fixed if it is exploited.

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Originally by: Fury Banker

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Or he can leave it in it's current form and only change the system if it begins getting abused. Worst case, he drops the buyback offer to 90% so that way no-one can profit from the dividend day, but this restricts existing customers, so I definetly think it should be left as is and only fixed if it is exploited.

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Well that depends a bit on what you mean by "abusing". If I were going to buy shares in the IPO then common-sense tells me that I should buy them as close as I can get away with to the next dividend date. Is that abusing/exploiting it?

If I was then to sell my shares the day after dividends to a current non-investor at 99% of IPO price - would I then be exploiting/abusing? Or would I only be exploiting/abusing if I exercised the buy-back option at 95% (where the company was actually better off than if I sold at 99% to a third party).

I'm not at all clear how any of the above could be considered as abuse or exploit anyway. All of the rules were defined by the IPO issuer - and nothing which is being done is an unintended effect. A quick look through previous IPOs would indicate that it's a very well-known issue which can be easily prevented IF you want to prevent it (think ISSO used the "sales only processed in 1st week of month" approach and I've see similar in other IPOs). Not preventing something which is:

a) Very well known and explicitly addresed in multiple other IPOs
b) Very easy to prevent in a range of different ways

indicates that either:

a) Proper research hasn't been done
b) You don't mind it happening

And your suggestion of dropping it to 90% buyback wouldn't address the issue - as if I were going to "abuse" it then I'd be looking at selling for more than 95% to third-parties, not excercising a buy-back option (which would tip the IPO holder off to what I was doing and possibly prevent me doing it again the next month by him doing something obvious and sensible to address it rather than skirting round the issue).

Seems strange that you propose a solution which ONLY penalises existing customers - while having no effect on people with half a brain taking advantage of it - then propose leaving it as it is unless it's exploited, apparently without realising that by doing so he IS penalising existing customers. I'll let you figure out for yourself how existing customers are penalised (hint: look at what dividends they get if someone buys shares on last day before dividend and compare to if they don't then ask yourself if the difference is equitable).

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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How about IPO minus previous dividend percentage?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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But in the end you wanna make it as easy to buy shares as possible. I dont wanna lose shares sales, because i try to defend against something which might or might not happen.

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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i don't see cap4u listed on resx. are you planning on listing there, or has enough time not passed to list yet?

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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are there still shares for sale?

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Originally by: Jonantus Lorenzuz

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10 shares for me...

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Originally by: Jonantus Lorenzuz

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Originally by: Jonantus Lorenzuz

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10 shares for me...

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Naaa..make it 20

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Originally by: Divorce

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Somthing sounds wierd here. You go from 12bil isk in shares to zero shares in a matter of a few hours. Scam??

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 19/08/2007 11:55:17

Originally by: Divorce

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Somthing sounds wierd here. You go from 12bil isk in shares to zero shares in a matter of a few hours. Scam??

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I can tell you its not a scam. If it was, you would have known it by now. This is 100% for real, and legitimate.

If it was a scam, why would i have returned Ryveth's isk? Surely if i pulled a scam, id have kept those isk, right?

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Originally by: Divorce

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 19/08/2007 11:55:17

Originally by: Divorce

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Somthing sounds wierd here. You go from 12bil isk in shares to zero shares in a matter of a few hours. Scam??

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I can tell you its not a scam. If it was, you would have known it by now. This is 100% for real, and legitimate.

If it was a scam, why would i have returned Ryveth's isk? Surely if i pulled a scam, id have kept those isk, right?

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So did you decide to keep 10bil of the shares for yourself due to not being able to pay out the dividends you claim to be able to pay out? Just seems funny you went from 800 shares sold to 2000 shares sold within a few hours time.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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since you've sold out the rest of the outstanding shares, will you be getting this next carrier BPO and upping the min div to 9%?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I don't feel lavista is scamming hence why I bought the rest of the shares.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I don't feel lavista is scamming hence why I bought the rest of the shares.

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Or he's one of your alts.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I don't feel lavista is scamming hence why I bought the rest of the shares.

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Or he's your alt.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I don't feel lavista is scamming hence why I bought the rest of the shares.

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Or he's your alt.

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Originally by: BrainSeller

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are there still shares available?

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Originally by: BrainSeller

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are there still shares available?

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Originally by: Miss Fiona

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THIS IS A SCAM DO NOT INVEST.

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Originally by: Miss Fiona

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THIS IS A SCAM DO NOT INVEST.

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Kinda funny how when General Starscream didn't get his way he also done the same thing, calling everyone around him scammers and using caps.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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since you've sold out the rest of the outstanding shares, will you be getting this next carrier BPO and upping the min div to 9%?

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Yes. But i just need to research the bpo's first. Should happen soon

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Originally by: FastLearner

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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since you've sold out the rest of the outstanding shares, will you be getting this next carrier BPO and upping the min div to 9%?

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Yes. But i just need to research the bpo's first. Should happen soon

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Has "soon" arrived yet?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: FastLearner

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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since you've sold out the rest of the outstanding shares, will you be getting this next carrier BPO and upping the min div to 9%?

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Yes. But i just need to research the bpo's first. Should happen soon

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Has "soon" arrived yet?

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His last payout was about 9% 2 or 3 weeks ago. he is not due for another payout for another week or so. Also, he is getting out of the Capital Ship thing soon, so not sure why this bpo would be of relavance, but will let him answer on that, he could have changed his mind since last time I talked to thim.

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Originally by: FastLearner

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: FastLearner

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Projected Return per Dividend Payment(%)
This is depends on how many shares are sold. If little amount is sold, itÆs not got going to be more than a few %, but if many are sold, we could expect a 10%ish. But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!

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since you've sold out the rest of the outstanding shares, will you be getting this next carrier BPO and upping the min div to 9%?

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Yes. But i just need to research the bpo's first. Should happen soon

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Has "soon" arrived yet?

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His last payout was about 9% 2 or 3 weeks ago. he is not due for another payout for another week or so. Also, he is getting out of the Capital Ship thing soon, so not sure why this bpo would be of relavance, but will let him answer on that, he could have changed his mind since last time I talked to thim.

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Last payment I recall was around then - but I seem to recall it being late and being 7.5%. Plus there was no breakdown of profits or balance - and not even a statement of whether that payment was for the period up to when the dividend was due, or for the period up to when the dividend was actually paid.

I DO recall the vote thread - where he wanted security reduced so he could do his own thing due to his original plan not working. Guess I'll wait till next Friday when the next dividend will be due - and hope for a proper report at that time.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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My plan was indeed to do 9%. But several large factors outside my control have killed it.

1. The prices on capitals are dropping very rapidly atm, hard to sell them also atm, because people sell at stupid prices
2. The mineral prices are going up.
3. My capital component provider had to stop his business due to external factors aswell. At present i only have 3 component BPO's, as i didnt see a need for that at point of the initial investment.
4. I had a major deal with a person, which would have made me able to pay out 12% last time. But unfortunately, the person went missing, havent heard a single word since. This is the reason why i was late last time, which is very unfortunate.

The 2 payouts as i recall, were around 7,5% each. But despite the very big problems on the market, im working hard to keep the ROI to at least 7,5%. But i can keep up. Im working hard to achieve it tho.

EDIT: Oh, btw. I can assure you it wont be 7,5% this month aswell. Im sure that you will all be pleased.

Just wait for friday, im trying hard to get round numbers for your viewing pleasure

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Originally by: FastLearner

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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My plan was indeed to do 9%. But several large factors outside my control have killed it.

1. The prices on capitals are dropping very rapidly atm, hard to sell them also atm, because people sell at stupid prices
2. The mineral prices are going up.
3. My capital component provider had to stop his business due to external factors aswell. At present i only have 3 component BPO's, as i didnt see a need for that at point of the initial investment.
4. I had a major deal with a person, which would have made me able to pay out 12% last time. But unfortunately, the person went missing, havent heard a single word since. This is the reason why i was late last time, which is very unfortunate.

The 2 payouts as i recall, were around 7,5% each. But despite the very big problems on the market, im working hard to keep the ROI to at least 7,5%. But i can keep up. Im working hard to achieve it tho.

EDIT: Oh, btw. I can assure you it wont be 7,5% this month aswell. Im sure that you will all be pleased.

Just wait for friday, im trying hard to get round numbers for your viewing pleasure

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Good to hear that things are picking up a bit. My concern was two-fold:

1. That it seemed to me 9% was guaranteed - to quote from your OP "But we will ALWAYS pay out 6% (As of the 8th July). Once we get another carrier BPO, this will increase to 9%!". Guaranteed/"ALWAYS" doesn't mean "if we do well" to me :)
2. That assuming payout was, instead, based o nactual profits, it seemed rather odd that both times the payout was a nice round figure - 7.5%. Without any figures to look at, there was no way I could assess whether the profits just happened to be the same both times - despite mineral price fluctuations - or whether capital had been eaten into to shore up profits.

I will say that I'm not actually a fan of guaranteed payouts on shares - unless any deficit is made up out of non-corporate monies. In your case, if your profits were 7.5% then paying out 9% would be reducing shareholder equity by 1.5% - and most likely ensuring even lower profits the next month. But as you guaranteed those payouts I'm entitled to assume you had contingencies in place for if actual profitability failed to meet your expectations.

Just to close the issue: are you saying that when you said "ALWAYS" you actually meant "SOMETIMES"?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Im sorry for the misunderstanding. But my ignorance made me believe that the capital market would be so stable, that i could pull off the 3% per BPO. But i swear if i could make it so, i would. But external factors made it impossible.

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Originally by: Shadarle

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Im sorry for the misunderstanding. But my ignorance made me believe that the capital market would be so stable, that i could pull off the 3% per BPO. But i swear if i could make it so, i would. But external factors made it impossible.

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I really hate to say this here... but people told you this was the case when you started this IPO. You were warned that this market was not a peachy market anymore and it was becoming flooded, profits were dropping, etc. I also believe specific questions were raised about your ability to procure capital parts.


I hope you're able to find some way to continue on, but it sounds like you're in quite a pickle in the capital production department. I'd offer you my services of producing capital components but I sold almost all of them right around the time you started your IPO because of the profits dropping so much already by that point.

Did your vote pass allowing you to change the markets you are in?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Today CAP4U is proud to announce that we have paid out 2......

No you people, the press release isnt before tommrow. Go back to your corner

Tho the above statsment might have some truth in it

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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If you dont think this is any good, i will remind you that i buy back shares at 95% of the IPO price(9,5mill). Just mail me.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Its this time of the month again. Payout eh.

This month was heavily influenced by the fact that i have liquidated some BPO's. A few have sold so far, some have been bought. So i havent had the funds to run the operation as i would like it to. But despite the refocusing which accured this month, im quite pleased with the result.

Im paying out 782million isk(3,91%), which is the estimate value of what i made.
This might not be to the full extent of what i made(Im honestly not sure, due to other reasons). But if it isnt spot on, it recoups for loss of assets which came with the fact that i sold a BPO for less than what i bought it for. So i hope this is acceptable.

So CAP4U is 4 months old now. We have paid out 6138mill isk, which is a totalt of 30,69%, or 7,6% ROI per month on average. So despite this quite sad payout this time, im still quite pleased with the overall picture.

Next month will largely depend on how i manage to liquidate some assets. If i manage to get some BPO's off my hands, it will be lots better. But i hope to at least pay out 7,5%, which is about my standard at present.

Questions etc. is VERY welcome. Also remember 100% buyback is in place. Just give me a call

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