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Krell Grissum
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Posted - 2007.07.14 03:49:00 -
[1]
I noticed that +3 implants require only cybernetics 1 but +4 implants require cybernetics 4 and was wondering how long it would take to break even with taking the time to train cybernetics to 4 to get the extra +1 from implants versus just going to cybernetics 1 and staying with +3 implants. I really don't understand training times enough to try to make sense of it so hopefully someone more knowledgable than I can help me out here. Thanks 
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Manaswa
Minmatar
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2007.07.14 03:55:00 -
[2]
There's more to take into account than SP.
There are the other 5 slots for hardwiring, the best of which require Cybernetics 5. There's also pirate implants that grant bonuses along with their stat increase.
If you're serious about your character then train Cybernetics 5, pretty much. If you don't think you'll be playing in a year don't bother.
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Krell Grissum
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Posted - 2007.07.14 04:01:00 -
[3]
Well it is more a question of value. I can spend the money for +3 implants for a nice quick boost or I can wait a couple days to train cybernetics to 4 for the +4 implants (not enough money to buy +5 implants so that isn't really a concern for me right now). I am just trying to figure out how long it would take for the extra +1 attribute to pay off for taking the time to get cybernetics up to 4. If it is more than a couple months I would likely just go with the +3 now and take the time to upgrade cybernetics more a bit down the line after some other more immediatly useful skills are trained up some more.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.07.14 05:20:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Krell Grissum
Well it is more a question of value. I can spend the money for +3 implants for a nice quick boost or I can wait a couple days to train cybernetics to 4 for the +4 implants (not enough money to buy +5 implants so that isn't really a concern for me right now). I am just trying to figure out how long it would take for the extra +1 attribute to pay off for taking the time to get cybernetics up to 4. If it is more than a couple months I would likely just go with the +3 now and take the time to upgrade cybernetics more a bit down the line after some other more immediatly useful skills are trained up some more.
Buy the +3 implants then train Cybernetics to level 5 if you want.
You will save alot of time if you do this.
If you must only buy the primary and secondar attr for Cubernetics.
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DeileonCloneBeta
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Posted - 2007.07.14 05:34:00 -
[5]
The breakeven for Cybernetics 2+3+4 is in the neighborhood of 2-2.5 months, depending greatly on your int/mem stats.
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Not Bait
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Posted - 2007.07.14 06:44:00 -
[6]
+1.0 to a skill's primary attribute is +60 SP/hour
+1.0 to a skill's secondary attribute is +30 SP/hour
The difference between Cybernetics 1 and 4 is 135,010 SP. You need to pay that much SP back with the 90 SP/hour you would get from the better implants.
135,010 SP / 90 = 1500 hours, or 62.5 days
If you have Learning 5, you would get 99 SP an hour from the implant upgrade.
135,010 SP / (66+33) = 1363.7 hours, or 56.8 days
So, about 2 months.
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Krell Grissum
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Posted - 2007.07.14 12:16:00 -
[7]
Thank you all for the replies 
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Drykor
Minmatar
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.15 12:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Not Bait
+1.0 to a skill's primary attribute is +60 SP/hour
+1.0 to a skill's secondary attribute is +30 SP/hour
The difference between Cybernetics 1 and 4 is 135,010 SP. You need to pay that much SP back with the 90 SP/hour you would get from the better implants.
135,010 SP / 90 = 1500 hours, or 62.5 days
If you have Learning 5, you would get 99 SP an hour from the implant upgrade.
135,010 SP / (66+33) = 1363.7 hours, or 56.8 days
So, about 2 months.
Stop saying stuff that is wrong. There is NO fixed amount of sp increase for raising an attribute by 1. This all depends on your current attributes.
How it works:
total sp to train / (primary attribute + (secondary attribute / 2)) = total minutes it will take. Divide by 60, then 24, to get amount of days. You'll have to convert decimal to actual hours in that case though.
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Shoele Lialos
Gallente
MCB Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.15 15:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Not Bait
+1.0 to a skill's primary attribute is +60 SP/hour
+1.0 to a skill's secondary attribute is +30 SP/hour
The difference between Cybernetics 1 and 4 is 135,010 SP. You need to pay that much SP back with the 90 SP/hour you would get from the better implants.
135,010 SP / 90 = 1500 hours, or 62.5 days
If you have Learning 5, you would get 99 SP an hour from the implant upgrade.
135,010 SP / (66+33) = 1363.7 hours, or 56.8 days
So, about 2 months.
Stop saying stuff that is wrong. There is NO fixed amount of sp increase for raising an attribute by 1. This all depends on your current attributes.
How it works:
total sp to train / (primary attribute + (secondary attribute / 2)) = total minutes it will take. Divide by 60, then 24, to get amount of days. You'll have to convert decimal to actual hours in that case though.
Do math much?
If you're going to bash someone, make sure that YOU are right before you do it. Adding one point across the board increases your training by 90SP/hour, that's just how it is.
Want a simple example?
INT = 10
MEM = 11
I need to train 1000 SP's. It'll take me 1000/(10+11/2) = 64.52 minutes at a rate of 930 SP per hour
INT = 11
MEM = 12
I need to train 1000 SP's. It'll take me 1000/(11+12/2) = 58.82 minutes at a rate of 1020 SP per hour
That's an increase of 90 SP per hour. It'll be the same if I started with 20 in each stat, or whatever other stat you want.
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Selena Dimeling
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.15 19:03:00 -
[10]
Shoele's right, you get 1 SP per minute for each point in the primary attribute, and 0.5 for each point in the secondary.
That's indeed a 90 SP/hour gain assuming an increase of 1 in every stat.
The time knocked off is vastly different in any increase, because there's a vast difference between adding 1/4th of an attribute's value and 1/20th.
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Skill Showroom |
Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.07.15 19:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Marine HK4861 on 15/07/2007 19:05:16
Originally by: Shoele Lialos
That's an increase of 90 SP per hour. It'll be the same if I started with 20 in each stat, or whatever other stat you want.
I agree with you that SP gain per hour remains consistent, but the time improvement drops the higher your stats are, which I think Drykor became confused on.
Taking your example of base stats with primary=11 and secondary=10 and training 1000SP:
1000 / (11 + (10/2) ) = 62.5mins, at 960 SP/hr
Now stick in +1 implants:
1000 / (12 + (11/2) ) = 57.1min, at 1050SP/hr
Which is 90SP hour more and a 8.6% time improvement
(1 - (57.1/62.5) )*100.
Put in +2s though:
1000 / (13 + (12/2) ) = 52.6min, at 1140SP/hr
Again, a 99SP/hour improvement, but only a 7.9% time improvement from the +1s.
(1 - (52.6/67.1) ) * 100.
Edit: Damn, Selena Dimeling beat me to it and explained it better with no calculations. 
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Gaz'Gaz
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Posted - 2007.07.15 19:27:00 -
[12]
try evemon, you can see training skill with or without implants
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Drykor
Minmatar
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.15 23:37:00 -
[13]
Yeah that's what I ment, I was wrong about the fixed sp increase though.
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Haldir Ravenclaw
Ordo Occultus Deus
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.16 02:41:00 -
[14]
Just finished Cybernetics 5 earlier today and plugged a +5 perception in (Intaki don't get alot of it to start with!), making my perception go from 20 to 22 (20.90 and add +1.10 for implant from a +4 to a +5 makes 22.00). Have to admit the change is slight on the lower skills, but did save a few hours. I know it'll work wonders when I get high rank skills from 4 to 5!
I did cybernetics so I could use +5's and the various warfare mindlinks, plus some of the cooler new hardwiring implants that are on offer, and science skills for me are faster than most others (industry is my fastest) and was prepared to wait the 12 or so days needed from lvl 4 to 5.
Personally, if you plan on staying in EVE for a good while then it is a good choice (12 or 13 days for cybernetics 4 to 5 to use +5's for all attributes to go up by 1 rather than training all advanced to 5 that would take over 2 months). I did it, and now time to make the most of it! I'll probably be mad in future and go get all my advanced to 5 also...
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Selena Dimeling
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.16 05:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Marine HK4861
Edit: Damn, Selena Dimeling beat me to it and explained it better with no calculations.
Don't feel bad. I myself prefer knowing exactly why, and I'm sure there're others who didn't know the answer already.
I just try to stay clear and concise because I get ranty otherwise.
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Skill Showroom |
DeileonCloneBeta
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Posted - 2007.07.16 07:51:00 -
[16]
Actually I beat everyone to it since I listed the correct breakeven time first. Also, Learning 5 should not be assumed, since if one wants optimal efficiency, Cyber 2+3+4 should come first.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.07.16 21:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Marine HK4861 on 16/07/2007 21:58:41
Originally by: DeileonCloneBeta
Actually I beat everyone to it since I listed the correct breakeven time first.
I assume Not Bait is your alt then?
However her estimates are lower than yours - 62.5 days is substantially shorter than 2.5 months.
Edit: must stop re-inventing the wheel...
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