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Zealot vs Harbinger for lvl 3's

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Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.07.14 08:55:00 - [1] Hi ya, I have been looking for posts on comparisons between these two ships for running lvl 3 missions as fast as possible but i can't really find any defining opinions on this subject. I use a Harbinger atm for lvl 3 missions and it's pretty much unstoppable in all lvl 3 missions and can get the job done fast. I am at the point now where i am almost to a HAC on my way to Command Ships and i am entertaining the idea of switching to using a Zealot IF i can do the missions faster. I grind lvl 3 missions for standings btw so completing missions fast is important to me. Alot of ppl say the Zealot is overkill for lvl 3's but hey, thats what i want My calculations through quickfit tell a different story though compared to my Harbinger and i am really at a loss as to which will be faster. Harbinger > Zealot in DPS HArbinger > Zealots armor by far. I can get better resists on the Zealot though compared to my Harbinger so i am not sure how the tanks would compare at higher resists vs more armor when it comes to repairing. Zealot > Harbinger when it comes to speed, agility and with a signature radius less than half that of the Harbinger which does improve its survivability greatly. So...i guess the core of my question is can the Zealot use its greater survivability to make up for a lack in DPS over the Harbinger to complete missions faster? All thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated as i am stuck on deciding if its worth coughing up for a HAC for something different or just sticking with my Harbinger.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:24:00 - [2] I can fly both, but I don't run lvl 3 missions much. But I think it will differ per mission. Zealot can close in to get an enemy into optimal a lot faster due to speed and optimal bonus, so if enemies are spread out the Zealot might win. At close quarters the Harbinger will probably come on top. Also keep in mind that Zealot has no drones.
The RepoMan Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:54:00 - [3] if you're just after standings, level 2s will get you there much faster than l3s, and zealot would probably do better there.
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:08:00 - [4] Thanks for the replies there guys. I have been going over the ships in a little more detail on quickfit and in my head mainly. I can't see much difference in them speed wise overall through the lvl 3's like you said Mastin. The Zealot might be faster in the spread out missions than the Harbinger but the Harbingers firepower when boxed in will obliterate the enemy faster i think. I guess when you have something good you should just stick with it. I still might get the Zealot to try out if at the very least i use it for a different role. I am developing quite an unhealthy habit for all things Tech II anyway. Repoman i did try running lvl 2's for standings a while back as you suggested but the boredom drove me crazy. Even lvl 3's are boring but i can do them pretty fast and i get better loot /salvage from them.
Aspyr	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:20:00 - [5] Having flown both into level 3s I can confidently say that Harbinger is definatley your better choice. The immediate advantage that the Harbinger has over the Zealot is durability. The Harbinger has twice as many effective hitpoints and has twice the capacitor of a Zealot. Also the Harbinger with high skills easily outdamages a Zealot and has sufficient grid to fit a full rack of 7 Heavy Beam 2s ( although I'd only ever fit 6 - stupid off centre turret on the right hand side ). And finally the Harbinger is a cheaper hull and insures for full price.
ZombyDog Amarr BigMek Industries GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Aspyr Having flown both into level 3s I can confidently say that Harbinger is definatley your better choice. The immediate advantage that the Harbinger has over the Zealot is durability. The Harbinger has twice as many effective hitpoints and has twice the capacitor of a Zealot. Also the Harbinger with high skills easily outdamages a Zealot and has sufficient grid to fit a full rack of 7 Heavy Beam 2s ( although I'd only ever fit 6 - stupid off centre turret on the right hand side ). And finally the Harbinger is a cheaper hull and insures for full price. That was me .
Alatari Winterdawn	Posted - 2007.07.14 11:28:00 - [7] Could you post your two setups? Also, to reinterate what The RepoMan said, if you're running missions for faction standings, L2 or L3 courier missions will get you there faster.
Pantaver	Posted - 2007.07.14 12:06:00 - [8] For me Zealot is better why? a Zealot like this : 4 Heavy Pulse II 10mn AB II, x5 webber, Cap recharger II 2 HSII, 1 MAR II, 2 EAM II, 1 CPR II, 1 Energized Thermic Membrane II Rigs 2 CCC around 400dps, 650ms+ speed, 73-87% resists 32km max range with t1 crystals..even with microwave crystals can destroy BCs in 1min all mods run enough time to kill everything in any lvl 3 mission.. Harbinger can do more dps sure but cannot keep tank at the same time and its slower and less agile..
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.07.14 12:40:00 - [9] The Harbinger is a close range pulse ship for me, I love getting right up in there and giving them all i got...maybe i am a little lazy too and i find beams more work with crystal changing for ranges along with relying on the drones for killing close targets. Ultimately i love being right in the pack as i find it more fun. With this setup i can kill anything no matter the size...even webbing spider drones or Gallente Navy frigates cannot get under me which is pretty neat. I actually use drones for longer range ships that annoy me while i take out the targets around me. HIGH 7x Heavy Modulated Pulse with Amarr Navy Ultraviolet 1x True Sansha Medium NOS MID 1x Domination 10MN AB 1x Domination Webber 1x Target Painter II 1x Cap Recharger II LOW 1x True Sansha MAR 1x EANM II 2x Rat specific Armor Hardeners II 2x Heasink II 3x CCC Rigs 10x Acolyte II A full 24/7 setup that no lvl 3 can touch Repairer and hardeners on constantly leaving me with full armor to fly around and do what i like =P Every module can be on indefinitely. Zealot setup i was thinking of which would basically be what i have now on the Harbinger just with greater range flexibility... HIGH 4x Heavy Pulse II 1x True Sansha Meduim NOS MED 1x Domination 10MN 1x Domination Webber 1x Target Painter II LOW 1x True Sansha MAR 2x EANM II 1x Energized Thermic II 2x Heatsink II 1x CPR II 2x CCC Rigs I still think the Harbinger will be better in the end but i am yet to try this on the Zealot which i will get now anyway. Alatari, i cannot do couriers as they really do bore me. I know they are faster for standings/ faction gain but i am trying to find a happy medium between fun / standings / reward and lvl 3 kill missions seem to fill that spot for me =)
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Pantaver For me Zealot is better why? a Zealot like this : 4 Heavy Pulse II 10mn AB II, x5 webber, Cap recharger II 2 HSII, 1 MAR II, 2 EAM II, 1 CPR II, 1 Energized Thermic Membrane II Rigs 2 CCC around 400dps, 650ms+ speed, 73-87% resists 32km max range with t1 crystals..even with microwave crystals can destroy BCs in 1min all mods run enough time to kill everything in any lvl 3 mission.. Harbinger can do more dps sure but cannot keep tank at the same time and its slower and less agile.. The Harbinger can tank quite well on the lvl 3's. I haven't broke my tank yet and have not had to gimp my firepower at all. I do like your setup, very similar to what i was thinking. Still such a hard choice between them though for me as they seem quite evenly matched for lvl 3's. I am going to get a Zealot regardless and if i do find it faster i will switch over. Thanks to all the ppl here that replied, appreciate the extra input to help me out.

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