| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
OdinWolph
Minmatar
   |
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:27:00 -
[1]
Give someone 10mil isk and let them choose to do the following:
A) Invest in combat.
B) Invest for mining.
C) Do trade runs.
Give them each 100 hours and see who has the most money.
Do I even need to go on with this example?
It is not only a matter of risk vs reward, it is also a matter of time vs money.
Currently there is no way to justify doing traderoutes. They are totaly worthless.
The amount of time spent fighting rats or mining and the money you get far outweighs
doing traderoutes.
Some I have talked to have argued that traderoutes didn't work in the first place.
This is not true. Before the T2 patch came along I did a lot of traderuns, until about a month after when I took a break from the game.
Now I am back again and have spent days trying to find one single traderoute that is worth the trouble.
The only traderuns, for obvious reasons, which are even remotely profitable are more then 10 jumps long and end and/or start in low sec.
My old bookmarks were still around and so where some of my notes that I managed to dig up to check what I used to trade with.
None of those are profitable.
And what's with the low amount of supply and demand? You either find 12 in supply and a demand of 300k and the other way around.
This can be because in the current region there is no supply for what you have found and need to go to other regions to find it. It still comes down to time though.
Trading was never as profitable at mining even before I played but now it is downright silly.
Is trading ever going to be a viable option in the game again?
(Btw: Totaly off topic but still... Why not add a filter in the chat and evemail system that blocks some addresses or even words to prevent isk sellers in the game from displaying their adds?)
-------------------------
"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere." - Lets bring this era back to our people. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:29:00 -
[2]
re: the filter, because they just add spaces ect, adding a filter just delays it doesnt stop, and if you think about it, enough filtering would cause lag, DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE LAG? 
Real turtles tank armor.
Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon |
xJohnnyDx
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:35:00 -
[3]
I've wanted to get into the whole trade thing for a while, just as something to mess around with when I don't feel like doing other stuff. It seems to me that you either have to have a ton of experience, a ton of overhead, or backup into lowsec in order to pull any kind of decent profit. I deal with gatecamps enough every other day, sometimes I just want to spend an afternoon with relatively little worry, and make a little extra cash. Unfortunately playing with the market just doesn't seem to be the answer.
PLACE SIGNATURE HERE |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:39:00 -
[4]
You can make tons of money trading, but you need to invest a lot of money and also know where those rare really good trade routes are. Their location is not discussed on the forum for obvious reasons.
---
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
|
Soljisk
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:40:00 -
[5]
Well trade runs use to be good when the market reset everyday to peak price, u would net 100s of
mils with a freighter, but now it takes several days for the market to reach its peak price and
most of the time it will get cut down to rock bottom by the little n00b doing his tiny runs. So
the only markets that reach peak are the low sec ones.
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Soljisk
Well trade runs use to be good when the market reset everyday to peak price, u would net 100s of
mils with a freighter, but now it takes several days for the market to reach its peak price and
most of the time it will get cut down to rock bottom by the little n00b doing his tiny runs. So
the only markets that reach peak are the low sec ones.
Im still living on the isk I earned from those days. The profits from hauling stuff back and forth in empire after downtime was quite insane just with a normal hauler. Easily made 50 mill in the first hour after downtime every day back then.
These days - I dont trade. 
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
|
insidion
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:43:00 -
[7]
I used to marketeer when I first started in eve, but there's no point in doing so under the current system. Trade runs still exist, but the time required to really turn a profit is insane compared to what it used to be. The market for npc trade goods in particular is now completely pointless, even with good trade skills and standings. IMO, the current npc trade goods aspect of the market system makes little sense. Toss in the fact that high sec ganking is all the rage, and you have a system with all kinds of risk and no reward.
|
OdinWolph
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
You can make tons of money trading, but you need to invest a lot of money and also know where those rare really good trade routes are. Their location is not discussed on the forum for obvious reasons.
I understand why people won't discuss them. But I have spent days trying to find a good route without any progress.
The simple answer is: Traderoutes are gimped so much that you need a freighter and +500mil to invest to get anywhere.
That's what it looks like anyway.
Is CCP intentionaly cuting this part of the game out from new players or players that don't have enough to buy half a Titan already?
-------------------------
"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere." - Lets bring this era back to our people. |
GndAdmiralThrawn
Supernova Industries
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:47:00 -
[9]
My primary trade run (bringing a low demand ore in one region to a high demand system in another region) has died in the last week. The price PLUMMETED by over 25%!!! I have no idea why other than that some MORON posted about it on the forums and suddenly every corp around was doing the same route!
So, I have no one to blame but myself, but still, the only profitable trade route I could find was ruined.
Creator of the Eve Market Monitor
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: OdinWolph
I understand why people won't discuss them. But I have spent days trying to find a good route without any progress.
The simple answer is: Traderoutes are gimped so much that you need a freighter and +500mil to invest to get anywhere.
That's what it looks like anyway.
Is CCP intentionaly cuting this part of the game out from new players or players that don't have enough to buy half a Titan already?
I think they wanted to move the focus into trading stuff that players want between systems, and that sort of trading still works and gives you profits. Its basically just the fixed npc market system that is dead.
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
|
|
|
xJohnnyDx
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 06:48:00 -
[11]
I'm not in it to make tons of money. If I pull a few hours of hauling stuff here there and wherever, and make 10 mil out of it, I'll walk away happy. I just don't know how to go about this. I've got a decent amount of funds to get myself started, I'm just not interested in entering lowsec, and I don't even honestly know how to get started. I'm assuming we're talking about buying items at the cheapest price and finding a buy order for more than what you paid, but so far the profits in highsec are just not worth the time.
PLACE SIGNATURE HERE |
OdinWolph
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:03:00 -
[12]
Killing the NPC market in a business that has no value to players other then traders isn't exactly fair.
If the worry is about freighters, just think how much is actually costs to train to use a freighter and then add the cost of the ship.
Even with a normal industrial it costs a little (for new players). But then again, with an industrial you can haul as much.
Cap the amount of goods you can buy per hour?
Right now trading could be compared to cuting the bounty on rats down to 1/4 and doing the same to the ore an asteroid contained. How fun would that be?
-------------------------
"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere." - Lets bring this era back to our people. |
Rangkai
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:16:00 -
[13]
Doing trade runs can be very profitable, it involves a bit of work and research to find out where you can buy some items low and sell them elsewhere quickly and for a good margin.
It can be done without entering lowsec too..
I do traderuns every now and then if I really need isk.. but not often as it is not a very exciting thing to do.
|
xJohnnyDx
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:26:00 -
[14]
I understand not giving out info to just anyone asking, so hopefully this isn't too specific of a question. How do you choose what to look at and trade between regions? There's so many items, it would take too long to write down buy/sell orders of all the trade goods, and eve-central isn't exactly the best resource for the low demand NPC type stuff. Anything a solo trader can do besides posting an alt somewhere else and comparing items?
PLACE SIGNATURE HERE |
Drakar Verge
Black Star Trading
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:28:00 -
[15]
No, trade routes arent dead.
10mil is barely enough to buy 2 to 3 T2 items.
Try saving up and buying 100mil+ at a time.
|
Gestation
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 07:44:00 -
[16]
Start hauling T2 from empire to 0.0 and watch the money pour in...
|
OdinWolph
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 08:03:00 -
[17]
Seemed to be some interesting in trading so I'll give a little starter tip:
To get anywhere with a profit you'd need to beef up your trading skills quite a bit or it'll cut your profit.
What I look for is profit/m¦, profit/jumps(time) and profit/risk.
Lets say I can buy one thing (lets call it AAA) at 100 and sell at 120 which takes up 1m¦ and then there is one thing which costs the exact same (this one is BBB) but it takes up 2m¦. Then the later one would just give me a profit of 10isk/m¦ while the first one gives me 20isk/m¦.
Next we have the time it takes to get that profit. Lets pretend that we want to buy and sell with AAA which gives you 20isk/m¦. To finish this one off you'd have to make a round trip of 28 jumps. So 20/28=0,71 isk/jump.
When we go back to BBB we find that it is just 12 jumps. So 10/12=0,83 isk/jump.
In this case the BBB item is more profitable vs time. So you choose the lower profit/m¦ but gain it with profit/jumps(time).
The hardest one is the profit vs risk. Well it's not really hard. You just have to use your better judgement. If you look at the map and see 8 ships destroyed in the last hour, you should not take a route that goes through that system.
Hauling around with goods worth millions of isk and then geting ganked by morons calling themselves "pirates" at a gate is not any way to "win" the trading game.
-------------------------
"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere." - Lets bring this era back to our people. |
OdinWolph
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 08:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: OdinWolph on 21/07/2007 08:16:59
Originally by: Gestation
Start hauling T2 from empire to 0.0 and watch the money pour in...
"...to the gate campers?"
Yeah that was a smart tip.
Most corps in 0.0 will sit at gates and when a juicy hauler/freighter appears they justify their attacks by something like "territorial" or "this is what the game is about".
When they see something which is a challange they run like the cowardly dogs they are.
Unless you bring 3-4 freighters and back the trade up with some protection, going to 0.0 would be stupid.
Trying to bargain for "free passage" (which usually means that they kill you anyway) you'd have to pay the sum of <insert amount here which kills the profit in a way that makes it unprofitable to do the route>.
When you ask why they blew your ship up they say "Oh, I was not informed that you were granted free passage. Sorry!" and you go "Will I be compensated for this?" and they reply with "Yes, we will not podkill you."
-------------------------
"At one time they had a flourishing empire with a level of mechanical excellence never before or since seen anywhere." - Lets bring this era back to our people. |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 08:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: OdinWolph
Originally by: Gestation
Start hauling T2 from empire to 0.0 and watch the money pour in...
"...to the gate campers?"
Yeah that was a smart tip.
Most corps in 0.0 will sit at gates and when a juicy hauler/freighter appears they justify their attacks by something like "territorial" or "this is what the game is about".
When they see something which is a challange they run like the cowardly dogs they are.
Unless you bring 3-4 freighters and back the trade up with some protection, going to 0.0 would be stupid.
Trying to bargain for "free passage" (which usually means that they kill you anyway) you'd have to pay the sum of <insert amount here which kills the profit in a way that makes it unprofitable to do the route>.
When you ask why they blew your ship up and you ask them why they say "Oh, I was not informed of free passage. Sorry!" and you go "Will I be compensated for this?" and they reply with "Yes, we will not podkill you."
---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
|
Trak Cranker
Serenity Inc
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 08:25:00 -
[20]
It stands to reason that NPC traderoutes would become seriously competed over, leading to small profits, since they havent been expanded in either proliferation or amounts while the actual online player base has become 6 times larger.
And they have even fixed(as in madec them work correctly, not freeze) the price movements, making less isk possivble pr time.
So your experience is no surprise.
|
|
|
Gestation
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 08:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: OdinWolph
Edited by: OdinWolph on 21/07/2007 08:16:59
Originally by: Gestation
Start hauling T2 from empire to 0.0 and watch the money pour in...
"...to the gate campers?"
Yeah that was a smart tip.
Most corps in 0.0 will sit at gates and when a juicy hauler/freighter appears they justify their attacks by something like "territorial" or "this is what the game is about".
When they see something which is a challange they run like the cowardly dogs they are.
Unless you bring 3-4 freighters and back the trade up with some protection, going to 0.0 would be stupid.
Trying to bargain for "free passage" (which usually means that they kill you anyway) you'd have to pay the sum of <insert amount here which kills the profit in a way that makes it unprofitable to do the route>.
When you ask why they blew your ship up they say "Oh, I was not informed that you were granted free passage. Sorry!" and you go "Will I be compensated for this?" and they reply with "Yes, we will not podkill you."
If you're hauling without a scout, then you're stupid.
I haul all the time. It is my main source of profit. Please don't discredit something you haven't even TRIED in front of everyone to read and discredit along with you. I make more doing this than ratting. a lot more.
Of course, it helps that i'm in an alliance that is friendly with a lot of people. If I run into a gatecamp, I find another entry point to 0.0. It's not a big deal. Once in, I drop off nice T2 goodies to all my friendly stations and watch my wallet fatten up.
You don't need friggin' carriers or feighters and such either. That's a complete myth. A simple Iteron V has served me very well. The scout is a must though. Either scout yourself using an alt, or have a friend do it for you. It really has been quite profitable. There is huge demand in 0.0 for T2 items.
Of course, if you've never had much experience in 0.0, I don't recomment it, but if you have balls AND brains, you'll get rich. Slow at first, but keep dumping money back into purchases and you will soon find your wallet reach over a billion.
|
Hugh Ruka
Caldari
Free Traders
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 09:00:00 -
[22]
For real profit, you need a titan and 2-3 freighters. Then just find 2 stations with high volume and even low profit goods. Fill the freighters, jump them to the other station, profit. Wait for market to reset.
That's trading in these days. There was a post about this a while back. I do not remember the alliance (anyway every titan owning alliance does this by now). Profit was 2bn isk or around that mark for one run.
Truth is, the incestment is huge, but it's a one time issue that get's paid back in a few weeks.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
|
xJohnnyDx
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 10:05:00 -
[23]
How about a way for someone to get started with it though? Or even just maintain a modest secondary income? There's no way in hell I or anyone I know will be in a Titan any time soon (or ever, not really our style), so what does that leave? Are the buy orders pretty much useless now? Is buying in one place and putting sell orders up in another the way to go? Putting "get rid of it quick" buy orders up?
I suppose this topic has taken a turn in a different direction, and I don't mean to take focus away from the OP, but it all kind of ties together. I remember people talking about trade as a primary and very good source of income when I first started playing. Now ratting, mining, and mission running is all I hear about.
PLACE SIGNATURE HERE |
Cpt Fina
Insult to Injury
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 10:44:00 -
[24]
If you don't have much time on you hands you should place yourself in a not so busy tradehub and put up 50-100 buyorders with deacent profitmargins.
Set the range to that one station or maybe 1 jump out.
Wait. Sell. Profit! 
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 11:25:00 -
[25]
Trade routes don't work? Tell that to BoB doing 2bill/day in a few minutes.
|
Drykor
Minmatar
Celtic Anarchy
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 11:34:00 -
[26]
Sure traderuns work, I never really liked the npc traderuns, so unrealistic, but selling stuff to players works. It's just another risk vs reward thing, if you don't want to enter lowsec or 0.0, you won't make alot of money. Probably better off running missions in that case, yeah. But if you can fly a tech2 hauler and have some brains, there's alot of money to be made.
|
Daelise Seryu
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 12:07:00 -
[27]
For a few weeks when starting out, I found trade runs to actually be proffitable. Granted, this is before I could take out level one encouter missions with ease. Most of that had to do with making two or less jumps delivering as much of low-proffit cargo as possible. I could earn about 20-30 thousand ISK an hour at that. So it really wasn't much of a problem and was worthwhile while piloting frigates. This ended fast as it took very little time to fit a ship for combat.
The real problem with doing trade runs is that NPC buyers rarely place worthwhile orders for anything other than a select few items and generally it is far more dangerous or time consuming than the proffit would justify. With a player-dominant economy, there needs to be a heavy player demand for items to make trade runs worthwhile. The closest thing to a trade run is finding a good deal on salvage goods and a willing buyer one can turn profit from. If there was an actual player demand for trade goods then there would be worthwhile trade runs, but unfortunately, there's not. There's nothing to do with trade goods but to sell them to an NPC corp for throw away amounts of ISK.
|
Stakhanov
kleptomaniacs
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 12:31:00 -
[28]
Use market orders. Direct buying and selling only gives you a fraction of the profit you can make if you're the one placing market orders. Place buy order in source region (deep highsec carebears) , move stuff , place sell order in delivery region (hub / 0.0 interface) and your wallet should grow fast enough.
|
Oriella Trikassi
Trikassi Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 13:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: OdinWolph
Currently there is no way to justify doing traderoutes. They are totaly worthless.
The amount of time spent fighting rats or mining and the money you get far outweighs
doing traderoutes.
Traderoutes are not worthless. They seem worthless to you. Some equally say that Eve is a game for combat players only, patently untrue since some players don't do PvP combat voluntarily. You only have to look at the Market Screens to see that hauling is alive and well.
First, you didn't define what you meant by 'traderoutes'.
NPC Corps Buy and Sell tradegoods. Most of these are only bought and sold by NPC Corps, eg Antibiotics and Garbage. Others are also used by pilots, eg Oxygen. There have been major changes to the tradegoods market in the past:
(1) The model was changed to unlimited supply, varying price.
(2) The potential profit was doubled, which gradually brought more Traders into Eve. Exodus was that? I forget.
(3) A persistent bug that caused prices to 'reset' at downtime took a long while to remove, to the point where a number of pilots assumed it was a rule. Afterwards, some 'got rich quick' traders quit trading in disgust.
(4) The 'Amount' was halved, the consequence of a massive Evewide NPC recession that is the true cause of present political tensions.
The other kind of hauling is between pilot Buy and Sells, with minerals for example. Obviously there are no fixed routes here, the market is constantly changing. Such hauling is, also obviously, based on supply and demand, if it doesn't happen profits will rise until it does or until potential buyers and sellers decide to haul the stuff themselves.
The potential profits are still there, but the competition for them has grown. This is as it should be. I took a quick look yesterday with Eve Navbot and quickly spotted some good runs.
---
Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce since 2004 |
Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.07.21 14:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
You can make tons of money trading, but you need to invest a lot of money and also know where those rare really good trade routes are. Their location is not discussed on the forum for obvious reasons.
QFT
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |