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Horionte Eve University	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:38:00 - [31] Good luck with walking in stations then -- The intelligence of the Earth is constant. Problem is, the population keeps rising.
Vyyrus Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:41:00 - [32] Is it me or do all gallente ships look like they do not belong? I mean don't get me wrong they are good ships I am gallente myself but the image needs to be buffed up a bit. The dominix looks like a boot, the catalyst looks like delta airlines got in a wreck and all thats flying around is 1 wing, the taranis and ares look like a couple of bugs flying around while the caldari and amarr have the coolest designs.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:45:00 - [33] To be honest, I really don't like the merlin's new model. It just doesn't make sense. It's supposed to be a frigate, so with a crew of <5 people. The one big***pit window up at the top makes sense, but all those lights (which I assume are windows) make it look like it is a cruiser with a crew of like 100. D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S**
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Horionte Good luck with walking in stations then Yeah. That's what I don't get about that. The literature about pod pilots seems to imply strongly that getting into a pod is a 1-way trip. NBALT Recruitment
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Foxy CEO Originally by: Horionte Good luck with walking in stations then Yeah. That's what I don't get about that. The literature about pod pilots seems to imply strongly that getting into a pod is a 1-way trip. Totally incorrect. The only time that the pilots brain is destructively scanned is when the pod's containment is broken invoulentarily under emergency situations. If you're docked and disembark the pod and then open it, you're just fine. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.23 20:03:00 - [36] Originally by: murder one Totally incorrect. The only time that the pilots brain is destructively scanned is when the pod's containment is broken invoulentarily under emergency situations. If you're docked and disembark the pod and then open it, you're just fine. Well that solves the problem of making new pod pilots, though I find a machine capable of instantly cloning a human brain that can be casually removed considerably less feasible than the faster than light perpetual motion machines we fly around in. NBALT Recruitment
DerArt1st	Posted - 2007.07.23 21:06:00 - [37] Edited by: DerArt1st on 23/07/2007 21:14:50 Hm, has CCP told that the new engine will exactly look like that what has been shown on the screenshots? I dont believe so, because they used a rendering technique called "radiosity". Sure the models and textures will be the same but it will not look like on the screenshots, because with radiosity one single frame will need several hours to be rendered. So it will be useless for a gameengine. Primitive Rendering(used by game engines): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Radiosity-no.jpg Same picture with Radiosity: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Radiosity-yes.jpg Edit: I'm talking about that screenshots: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/andm/amarr_stargate_standard_wip.jpg http://staff.ccpgames.com/redundancy/devblogs/caracal.jpg http://staff.ccpgames.com/redundancy/devblogs/bellicose.jpg
Braineater Minmatar BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:37:00 - [38] That's not entirely true, I believe. Even with Vray cranked way up and HDR turned on 3dsmax doesn't take 'several hours' for a single image of a single object with a few lights, assuming a sane resolution. Also, I believe there are some ways to fake the radiosity effect in realtime 3D engines. Especially since in EVE there aren't that many objects around a ship where it's secondary rays (bounced light) would become visible. You're not supposed to blob that close anyways, think of the bombs! Just have a look at other recent games which create fake HDRI in realtime, quite impressive actually. ______
Siri Blue Gallente Avis de Captura	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:41:00 - [39] I'm all for tuning DOWN graphics! I would prefer less lag, less server crashes and playable 200vs 200 fleet battles.
Elipsis Gallente The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.23 22:55:00 - [40] That's a nice looking pod imo.
Paaaulo	Posted - 2007.07.23 23:06:00 - [41] I doubt ill be able to play eve when the engine update comes out, will the requirements still be the same for us povo's who cant afford decent PC's?
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.24 00:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Paaaulo I doubt ill be able to play eve when the engine update comes out, will the requirements still be the same for us povo's who cant afford decent PC's? Trust me you will, there will be 2 versions of the client, one that is based on dx9 with all features maxed out, less gpu usage though (god only knows how but meh) and a dx10 version for those that were silly (only my opinion ) enough to install the virus of vista on their machine. Originally by: Foxy CEO Originally by: murder one Totally incorrect. The only time that the pilots brain is destructively scanned is when the pod's containment is broken invoulentarily under emergency situations. If you're docked and disembark the pod and then open it, you're just fine. Well that solves the problem of making new pod pilots, though I find a machine capable of instantly cloning a human brain that can be casually removed considerably less feasible than the faster than light perpetual motion machines we fly around in. The brain is not removed only the data contained (well, burned and a snapshot taken with said data within, leaving the original or copy a vegetable). Then it is tranferred to the new clone via a socket in the brain within the gestation chamber where the clone was grown. Most if not all clones are "fitted" with nanites that build the neural pathways as they recieve the snapshot of the dead mans brain case. Least that's how I understood it. Can I suggest you read the library from time to time, it is rich with such stuff, not to mention the chronicles. ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here.
Luna Nilaya Black-Mesa THE V I G I L	Posted - 2007.07.24 00:20:00 - [43] Originally by: DerArt1st Edited by: DerArt1st on 23/07/2007 21:27:01 Hm, has CCP told that the new engine will exactly look like that what has been shown on the screenshots? I dont believe so, because they used a rendering technique called "radiosity". Sure the models and textures will be the same but it will not look like on the screenshots, because with radiosity one single frame will need several hours to be rendered. So it will be useless for a gameengine. Primitive Rendering(used by game engines): Radiosity OFF Same picture with Radiosity: Radiosity ON Edit: I'm talking about that screenshots: Stargate Caracal Bellicose First of all those models are the high resolution base models that are used to generate the game models. So they're not supposed to be ingame. Radiosity doesn't necessarily require that long rendering times, it really depends what kind of environment we're talking about and how good is the radiosity quality. In space, light doesn't bounce much because there's no walls, ground and so on. There are also quite fast ways to mimic radiosity these days. Crysis for example is going to use some sort of realtime fake radiosity that looks very good.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.24 02:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Paaaulo I doubt ill be able to play eve when the engine update comes out, will the requirements still be the same for us povo's who cant afford decent PC's? form what I heard the requirements are going to make most computers run eve faster. being as your GPU will finally be used. but wait until the update I suppose. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
DerArt1st	Posted - 2007.07.24 03:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Luna Nilaya Originally by: DerArt1st Edited by: DerArt1st on 23/07/2007 21:27:01 Hm, has CCP told that the new engine will exactly look like that what has been shown on the screenshots? I dont believe so, because they used a rendering technique called "radiosity". Sure the models and textures will be the same but it will not look like on the screenshots, because with radiosity one single frame will need several hours to be rendered. So it will be useless for a gameengine. Primitive Rendering(used by game engines): Radiosity OFF Same picture with Radiosity: Radiosity ON Edit: I'm talking about that screenshots: Stargate Caracal Bellicose First of all those models are the high resolution base models that are used to generate the game models. So they're not supposed to be ingame. Radiosity doesn't necessarily require that long rendering times, it really depends what kind of environment we're talking about and how good is the radiosity quality. In space, light doesn't bounce much because there's no walls, ground and so on. There are also quite fast ways to mimic radiosity these days. Crysis for example is going to use some sort of realtime fake radiosity that looks very good. Hm, agreed. With a cluster it doesnt need several hours to render one frame, but who has a cluster at home? I have not. But i will definatly check this "fake-radiosity" out. Thanx for the tip :)
Svengali MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:15:00 - [46] There is also occlusion maps that can make things look very nice and radiosity-like but with a very cheap rendering cost (another texture op). Basically you bake out the amount of ambient light falling on a location. [link]http://cgkit.sourceforge.net/tutorials/baking/baking.html[/link]
DerArt1st	Posted - 2007.07.24 04:25:00 - [47] Thx, for the link. I will read this very carefully. But what i've seen now is that this is just a texture. This will work for a static picture, but i doubt that this technique will be usefull in a realtime engine.
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:10:00 - [48] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir The brain is not removed only the data contained (well, burned and a snapshot taken with said data within, leaving the original or copy a vegetable). I was referring to whatever mechanism was contained within the pod to make the cloning possible. Archiving the amount of data necessary to clone someone's brain over such a short period of time would require a machine of unimaginable precision. Removing it (or any part of it) and then reattaching it would be impractical. You'd also need clean room facilities unlike any that exist on this planet. Such a clean environment doesn't mesh with the feel of the game (at least for me). Quote: Most if not all clones are "fitted" with nanites that build the neural pathways as they recieve the snapshot of the dead mans brain case. Those nanites would have to be made of unobtanium. There are a lot of issues that make deployment of nanotechnology of that scale in the human body impractical. The most important one is a lack of space. You'd displacing biological machinery that has evolved over millions or billions of years if these nanites have any nontrivial volume. Unless you replaced the pod clones' skulls with roomier models, your network of nanites will bork things. You also have an issue with the single access point if you "plug in" as the data flux into the plug would require a rapidly increasing volume of data conduits, further displacing the brain and its supporting biological tissues. (Data conduit volume should grow roughly like (r_brain^3-r^3) if i'm modeling it correctly, so 0 volume at the outer edge of the brain and r_brain^3 times some constant at the plug. There's less and less volume available the closer you get to the plug, so that's an issue.) (This is more a general issue with cloning than with being able to remove some part of the cloning machinery, but if you compromise to make the above less of an issue then the connection to outside machinery becomes more complex and attaching/detaching becomes harder.) Quote: Can I suggest you read the library from time to time, it is rich with such stuff, not to mention the chronicles. I've read a good deal of it. The only one I've seen about a pod pilot leaving a pod (the jovian wet grave) and there's one about a cloning made under suboptimal conditions where the result was tragic (the one about the amarrian racer who used rigs illegally and the mother who paid for a black market clone to save her son's life, forget the name). If it's implied in the literature that all characters are pod pilots I haven't seen that, and I haven't assumed it. That could be error on my part. There's a lot of hand-waving over physically impossible technology in the game (which makes it fantasy or at least soft sci fi rather than sci fi, IMO). The idea that you'd be able to casually hook-up and detach a machine capable of the cloning process presents at least as many physical concerns as the process itself. I'd assumed based on those two stories (and not having seen any stories where someone got into a pod and later got out uncompromised) that CCP had gone for a bit of realism. Personally, I like the idea of pod pilots as space eunuchs more than walking in stations. Or maybe I just like saying "space eunuchs." NBALT Recruitment
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.24 05:42:00 - [49] Edited by: Plentimon on 24/07/2007 05:43:32 Edited by: Plentimon on 24/07/2007 05:42:35 For all of us loyal Amarrians out there [url=http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/Lokan82/ccp-announces-eve-online-expansion-.jpg]Abaddon[/url] [url=http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/Lokan82/ccp-announces-eve-online-expansi-1.jpg]Apocalypse[/url] [url=http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/Lokan82/?action=viewñt=ccp-announces-eve-online-expansi-2.jpg]Executioner[/url]
Braineater Minmatar BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:17:00 - [50] Thanks Plentimon, I added them to the first page. ______
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:06:00 - [51] CCP are in no way using radiosity in there new engine. The shots you linked to are from the high polygon base art used to create the final lower polygon count ingame models. They have rendered them simply to show us the art. Games can fake radiosity by baking textures, EVE's new client will not be doing this. Also the game will be sped up by the move to the GPU. As many before me have said, currently the CPU is doing all the grunt work and it aint that good at it, GPU's on the other hand will be able to perform much better. I fully expect a slew of graphic options within the new client to allow players to crappify the graphics if they must, or pump it up with FSAA. My only concern, and something i haven't seen raised elsewhere -which is surprising- Is wether the new client with its higher emphasis on the GPU will be ble to run multiple clients simultanously! Hmmm i smell a question to be asked and answered. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Jedek Caldari Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:15:00 - [52] I don't know if this has been addressed, and as I haven't had my coffee I haven't read alot either BUT, alogn with the better ship models will the standard background / system designs be getting an overhaul to?
Virida Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:25:00 - [53] The eve online shader directx9 engine under construction do not use real radiosity, it use fake radiosity. proof The engine used at the starship models seen runs in a plain pc, real time. i saw the engine running realtime at last fanfest.
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Jedek I don't know if this has been addressed, and as I haven't had my coffee I haven't read alot either BUT, alogn with the better ship models will the standard background / system designs be getting an overhaul to? I don't really see how they could improve them, they're nearly photo-realistic imho. As for planets/asteroids/random space junk that would be interesting to know.
gpYUAN29	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:41:00 - [55] Originally by: DerArt1st Edited by: DerArt1st on 23/07/2007 21:27:01 Hm, has CCP told that the new engine will exactly look like that what has been shown on the screenshots? I dont believe so, because they used a rendering technique called "radiosity". Sure the models and textures will be the same but it will not look like on the screenshots, because with radiosity one single frame will need several hours to be rendered. So it will be useless for a gameengine. Primitive Rendering(used by game engines): Radiosity OFF Same picture with Radiosity: Radiosity ON Edit: I'm talking about that screenshots: Stargate Caracal Bellicose Take 3 million polygon model Pass through magic hoop Take resulting 10,000 polygon normal mapped model Put in game Watch high framerate Wonder why obviously misleading moniker was chosen
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.07.24 11:47:00 - [56] those...look...INCREDIBLE. Especially the megathron and the pod :) Is there a ballpark figure for when the graphics overhaul will take place? ---------------------------------

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