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VolcanicButtmonkey
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Posted - 2007.07.25 11:18:00 -
[1]
Proposal to make Caldari not suck at PvP
From what IÆve seen the main reason people people donÆt use Caldari missile boats (excluding the drake and crow) for pvp is the annoyingly long flight time to the target. Heres a summary of problems I see right now with the Caldari
-By the time the first salvo is about to hit every other races weapon has already hit him and is about to for the second time
-The caldari have only one damage mod (low slot) while every other race has 2 (This doesnÆt include Minmatar who have 3 thanks to their split weapon system)
-The numerous mids on non-ECM caldari ships are either used for active tanking or for Sensor Damps
Heres a series of Ideas that might help the Caldari move on from PvE , numbers arenÆt going to help either the argument or the implementation , so IÆm only going to give a suggested range for everything
A second gank module for the low slot (Missile Afterburner)
A module that increases the base speed of missiles at the expense of max range. Think of it as an afterburner for missiles that enables missiles to actually travel faster and maybe actually hit the target before it explodes. To the interceptor and vaga pilots screaming murder at this point heres the catch. Acceleration only takes place once the missile clears 20km of the launcher (vessel). For people who actually care about reasons you could always say backblast would damage the ship/launchers. What does this range modifier mean?
The inty / vaga / nano ship can still orbit the target vessel without fear of being blown up however
-If two missile spewing ships were fitted with this mod and were a little over 20k from each other they would possible deter a nano/vaga/inty
-Every gang wouldnÆt need a rapier or a huginn to actually kill fast ships
-Incentive to not blob , stay far enough away and protect your gangmate from nano ships
-Caldari Support would be specifically deployed around a sniper fleet to deter nanovagintyÆs
Stats
-Eats a lot of CPU to fit , ensures that something as small as the crow cant fit it
-Is stacking nerfed (duh!)
-Overload(?)
-I was possibly thinking 20% missile velocity increase for 25% decrease in range on a t1 mod going up to 25% velocity increase
-Maybe make Backblast range a percentage of max available range capping the min at 15km, this would actually give caldari a reason to train the skill that increases missile range
What ships does this affect?
Caracal, Drake, Raven - These Missile boats would finally be effective in pvp. The caracals second low would be stuffed with another BCU or a plate. Fitted with HAMÆs or Assaults a pack of these boats would chew inties. The drake would have the ability to use its 7 launchers more effectively. Anyone wanting to use this mod would have to forfeit a low slot item (hopefully a shield recharger after fitting requirements) The Raven would finally be useful as a sniper and have its missiles get to the target on time. Stacking a bunch of these would also put it in the medium range gank shipclass like the Armageddon (or Apoc I forget which)
The Caldari ECM ships wont really have an option to use this since their low slots usually require Signal Distortion Amps or Plates
Minmatar and Khanid (Mk II) ships would be able to fit these mods and therefore have some incentive to fit missiles instead of NOS
The Major downside to this module is it further cements Caldari as the kings of PvE, the only possible solution to this might be to make this module inactive in deadspace like MWDÆs
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.25 11:21:00 -
[2]
I support the idea of a module that increase missile flight speed by 20% and decreases missile explosion cloud by 10% (similar to a tracking enhancer for extra range / damage versus smaller targets).
sup /b/ |
VolcanicButtmonkey
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Posted - 2007.07.25 11:31:00 -
[3]
Medium Slot Modules
These modules come in three flavors, but first IÆll explain how they should work and my terminology to reference them. The short range modules effect is maximal over the first 33% of its range (Alpha). The medium between 33% and 66% (Beta) and long range works best when used between 66-100% of its max range (Gamma).
These modules increase missile damage (nominally) and missile velocity with a missile explosion radius penalty for their corresponding range.
Basically a medium range mod (Beta) would get its damage bonus and velocity bonus only over the 33-66% range with the explosion radius penalty applying as well. However if the target ship is in the alpha region the missile travels at base velocity, with a penalty to missile damage and explosion radius.
Since the Caldari are supposed to stay at range and spew missiles a greater penalty occurs for the shorter range.
Short range (Alpha)
This is for the gatehugging support ships that are meant for dealing damage at close range and taking out ships quickly
Range (Dmg Bonus) (Velocity Bonus) (Explosion Radius Penalty)
Alpha 20% 30% 30%
Beta -20% 0% 20%
Gamma -20% 0% 10%
Medium Range (Beta)
This is for cruiser/ BC sized support vessels that stay 30-50km from their target
Range (Dmg Bonus) (Velocity Bonus) (Explosion Radius Penalty)
Alpha 0% 0% 15%
Beta 20% 30% 20%
Gamma -20% 0% 25%
Long Range (Gamma)
Range (Dmg Bonus) (Velocity Bonus) (Explosion Radius Penalty)
Alpha -30% 0% 0%
Beta -20% 0% 0%
Gamma 10% 100% 50%
Gamma type modules are for sniper ships and missile boats that want to fire and do damage at their envelopes
(All numbers are best case scenario i.e. T2 )
The major attribute of this module is that they behave like cloaks; only one of these modules can be installed on a ship.Again all these modules require a chunk of CPU to fit as well as well as moderately high activation energy cost. Implemented correctly Beta should be the easiest to fit (relative to alpha and gamma) since it has the worst range category and it encourages people to stick with medium ranges (anti-blobbing)
Ships Affected
Stealth Bombers û This would be good for these ships, but bad for their prices. The explosion radius penalty wouldnÆt hurt them very much due to their intrinsic bonus and the same time hopefully the Manticore would regain some sort of advantage to justify its price e.g. it would be the only bomber to be able to fit alpha and gamma with no difficulty (it has a CPU advantage to begin with I think)
Caracal, Drake, Raven get range versatility
Ships with split weapons benefit greatly by being able to concentrate damage over a more specific range. Lets take the typhoon as an example If a pilot fitted it with autocannons and torpedoes he would ideally like to concentrate all his damage close range (alpha). Similarly a tempest pilot if he fitted his ship with long range artillery and cruise would like to be able to get his missiles to the target quicker from range.
Problems?
I can honestly claim I have no idea what would happen to the DPS of these ships and how that would imbalance them. I also have no idea what this would do to capital ships.
I donÆt know how much information would be passed between the client and the server on the state of every missile, and if this is a significant amount a single raven would crash a node
-And Damn! you are fast Sokratesz
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.25 11:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 25/07/2007 11:44:39
Heh. I lurk too much. (holiday / nothing to do atm).
It seems clear that missile users can use some love for PVP when it comes to the 'delayed damage' issue. I must admit i haven't read your entire second post but a lowslot module that improves a missile's fligth speed and effectiveness against fast and or small targets would be awesome.
sup /b/ |
BLACKDESTROYER1
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Posted - 2007.07.25 12:19:00 -
[5]
The only problem i have encountered in PvP as Caldari (more than the missle flight time) is the explosion time of missles on fast ships - with the introduction of rigs - vaga's and event 9km/s minmitar battleships are impossible to cause damage to - while the missles hit - the targets speed negates any bonus to missle flight time if they are moving faster than the explosion velocity.
I still say it is the explosion velocity which should be able to be boosted, through mods or rigs to give any caldari missle boat any opportunity to attack (or defend from) the fast, modded, rigged ships.
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VolcanicButtmonkey
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Posted - 2007.08.09 09:55:00 -
[6]
* Slight Necro . Back from vacation.
With the new Khanid Mk II there might be some more support for this hopefully from the close range HAM spewing Khanid players
Also, the 9km/s vagas problem is its alone, if guns cant hit it , no reason for missiles to
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.09 10:01:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: BLACKDESTROYER1
The only problem i have encountered in PvP as Caldari (more than the missle flight time) is the explosion time of missles on fast ships - with the introduction of rigs - vaga's and event 9km/s minmitar battleships are impossible to cause damage to - while the missles hit - the targets speed negates any bonus to missle flight time if they are moving faster than the explosion velocity.
I still say it is the explosion velocity which should be able to be boosted, through mods or rigs to give any caldari missle boat any opportunity to attack (or defend from) the fast, modded, rigged ships.
Yes and guns should always hit as well.
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Wideen
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.08.09 11:01:00 -
[8]
nano a caracal and off you go! 
seriously, increased missile velocity could be a good thing but on the other hand you have to think about certain things which exist to create balance, i.e. missiles always hit. So naturally there should be some downside to it and missile velocity seem to be it.
Originally by: P'uck
I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
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VolcanicButtmonkey
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Posted - 2007.08.09 11:23:00 -
[9]
Can't really nano a caracal with only two low slots (outside of the pressing need for a BCU) 
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2007.08.09 11:25:00 -
[10]
Create guns that fires missiles instead of projectiles 
Caldari and proud |
Wideen
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.08.09 11:40:00 -
[11]
yeah I know .. well you could but wouldn't rly be efficient
OH and on the point that missiles can't hit good nano ships (implying those that travel above missile velocity) - neither can turrets. At least missiles have the good chance of actually succeeding compared to turrets depending on the target's speed. Slower nano ships fear missiles for a reason and missiles also have the advantage of having FOF so if jammed then still stands a chance.
Originally by: P'uck
I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?
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