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Murukan Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:13:00 - [1] Well passing through cva space recently i noticed a huge amount of "drone like" pilots in school corporations flowing in and out of cva space in a mindless loop of hauling trade goods. Have cva recently turned to brain dead "humans" (i say humans lightly) to fund their empire? ((ooc: but really cva has always been very prideful what's with letting the huge amount of blatant macro haulers crowd your space )) Manlove by Zaphod Jones
IzzyChan Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.27 00:50:00 - [2] Comparing Sansha to CVA's new neighbors? I find that highly insulting. --------------------
Redwolf Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Redwolf on 27/07/2007 01:07:37 Multiple applications have been made to the DED to act upon these mindless drones acting under the guise of licensed pod pilots, yet they do nothing. CVA's remit does not permit us to act agressivly against harmless law abiding shipping, without evidence of misdeed. ---- It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 01:10:00 - [4] Edited by: Solusar on 27/07/2007 01:10:49 Complain to concord, there is only so many of them we can destroy before they deem us unfit to enter high security space. It is a problem for the authorities to deal with which currently is being ignored. Perhaps a communique to a CVA diplomat to find out what is really going on before an attempt to slander our name in the future?
Tablaren Kingdom of Kador	Posted - 2007.07.27 02:33:00 - [5] hugs izzychan It's ok, he didn't really mean it. He's just jealous cause Sansha's Nation and CVA get cooler uniforms.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:24:00 - [6] Funny thing, I was under the impression that CVA claimed to be the only authority in Providence and surrounding area. But hey, if its work, delegate it to DED. That's what you have done all those years in Providence - delegate the responsibility and then fall upon those who are worn out from cleaning the area from the scum. You sure must be proud of the shining empire you are going to expand...
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 12:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Kabajashi San Funny thing, I was under the impression that CVA claimed to be the only authority in Providence and surrounding area. But hey, if its work, delegate it to DED. That's what you have done all those years in Providence - delegate the responsibility and then fall upon those who are worn out from cleaning the area from the scum. You sure must be proud of the shining empire you are going to expand... If you bothered to do some reseach before opening your mouth you would discover that these slave pilots operate mainly between Mista and Misaba/Ziriert which is not part of Providence. But I suppose making logical arguments doesnt matter when your only goal is to try to slander CVA's name. Once they enter Providence it is a different story when dealing with them.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.27 13:00:00 - [8] Solusar, read. Originally by: Murukan Well passing through cva space recently i noticed a huge amount of "drone like" pilots in school corporations flowing in and out of cva space... CVA space. Not Amarr Empire low sec. I think you are confused, unless you think you own Amarr Empire low sec too. I'm sure the Privy Council would love that kind of 'heracy'. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Redwolf Edited by: Redwolf on 27/07/2007 01:07:37 Multiple applications have been made to the DED to act upon these mindless drones acting under the guise of licensed pod pilots, yet they do nothing. CVA's remit does not permit us to act agressivly against harmless law abiding shipping, without evidence of misdeed. Without evidence of misdeed? So what did you go to DED with then? Exciting stories and an apple?
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Darius Shakor Solusar, read. Originally by: Murukan Well passing through cva space recently i noticed a huge amount of "drone like" pilots in school corporations flowing in and out of cva space... CVA space. Not Amarr Empire low sec. I think you are confused, unless you think you own Amarr Empire low sec too. I'm sure the Privy Council would love that kind of 'heracy'. If you bothered to come and check on the situation you would know of exactly the problem that Murukan speaks of and exactly the area that is plagued by these drones posing as pod pilots. Indeed many "freedom fighters" have taken to siting 180km off the Mista gate in Kheram recently shooting down these drone operated ships, however I have my doubts they knew what they were doing. The low security space around Misaba is often called "CVA Space" by many entities as we operate anti pirate operations in that area, even if we have no claim to it. Stop being pedantic.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.27 14:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Solusar Edited by: Solusar on 27/07/2007 01:10:49 Complain to concord, there is only so many of them we can destroy before they deem us unfit to enter high security space. It is a problem for the authorities to deal with which currently is being ignored. Perhaps a communique to a CVA diplomat to find out what is really going on before an attempt to slander our name in the future? Now hang on a minute! Do you engage individuals with which you have no standing or not? Seems that your response indicates that you have been firing on these 'neutrals', yet can no longer do so because of a problem with your Concord issued security status. Which is it to be CVA?
Darius Shakor Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:20:00 - [12] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 27/07/2007 15:21:13 Solusar, you are not as good at spin and recovery as Hardin. Send him in future. And you are just blatantly trying to change the subject anyway. You say I am being pedantic. I say you are being evasive. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Xavier Fate Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Darius Shakor Edited by: Darius Shakor on 27/07/2007 15:21:13 Solusar, you are not as good at spin and recovery as Hardin. Send him in future. And you are just blatantly trying to change the subject anyway. You say I am being pedantic. I say you are being evasive. I don't particularly care to defend the CVA, but this is worth merit. If you have a problem with these drones - do something about it yourself. Don't come crawling to this Net crying out for someone else to carry out your justice. If you want tog et CVA's permision, then get it. But asking themt o do the task for you - that is pathetic.
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:51:00 - [14] Look at the howling monkeys come to call. The CVA does not condone or benefit from the use of drone control haulers. We retain our right to destroy said vessels. Our mission is not to eliminate these 'things' and so you will not see us in groups hunting them down in low security spaces. You will note they operate almost exclusively in those areas. Indeed some weeks ago a pirate group spent a few days destroying hundreds of said ships and fleeing from ships with pilots, amusing really. Such drone ships are removed from the Deliverance area in Providence. Nothing else to the issue. No standings needed, nothing further to be said.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:54:00 - [15] You are the one makeing a complete fool of yourself, Mr. Shakor. I believe there was an announcement quite a while ago that CVA considered these drone piloted ships hostile. And I think you will find that the OP does not make the same distinctions about which space is CVA and which is Amarrian that you do. He seems rather derranged. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:55:00 - [16] Interesting. Despite Murukan quite clearing stating this is in CVA controlled space that these drone miners operate there is a lot of effort to try and tell us he is talking about the low security areas of empire. Not only that but Acheron Federation are defedning the employment of these drones. Truly interesting times we live in. >> RECRUITING <<
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 15:59:00 - [17] If you talking monkeys are going to try to make an issue out of this, at least make sure your information is correct.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.27 16:17:00 - [18] Does no one read my edit? When at any time have I even said I agree with Murukan here? Please point me to it. All I did was correct Solusar's assumption that all this was referring to was low sec entirely. And that Murukan was talking about CVA soverignty. I didn't say he was right that the CVA condones drone pilots, even I know this is not the case. So please, stop jumping to the chance to make something of nothing. Quote: And I think you will find that the OP does not make the same distinctions about which space is CVA and which is Amarrian that you do. No but Solusar does make that destinction and uses it to claim DED interference in the affair. I was simply stating that the original poster said 'CVA space'. Who are you all to determine what he really meant by it or that he is included in the body of people that call low sec Amarr 'CVA space' too? I'm not the one making a fool of myself. Except for trying to make a supposed enlightened race see what I am actually saying. How foolish of me. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.27 16:58:00 - [19] Uh, I seem to have hit a nail there or two judging from the rather angry responses.
Xavier Fate Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Not only that but Acheron Federation are defedning the employment of these drones. I'm not defending it. If you have a problem with them - go kill them yourself, don't whine about it.
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:58:00 - [21] The concern expressed about CVA space is quite touching. Thank you all for caring. Oddly enough, it's far easier to liberate star systems from Minmatar terrorists than it is to permanently exterminate these drone-like ships.
Redwolf Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 18:55:00 - [22] For clarification: These drones do not operate in providence. CVA is not liable for Murukans inability to properly discern the difference between Amarr and CVA soverignty from his ship systems. (What does one expect from your average Brutor?) CVA does, and will act with extreme malice, against drones posing as pod pilots where irrefutable evidence of said misdemeanour is present. Now, back to business. Amarr Victor! ---- It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.27 21:26:00 - [23] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 27/07/2007 21:27:27 To the various Minmatar (edit: and Gallente) partisans posting here: While I sympathize with your cause in some degree, why precisely is it necessary to immediately pounce on every perceived inconsistency in your opponents' policy, however well-grounded it may be? When you've got what most of the cluster's denizens (outside of Amarr space, anyway) will concede is justice on your side, why dirty that with these cheap shots and sneering insults? Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but it seems as though a band of fighters struggling to rescue their brethren from enslavement would be able to hold the high ground in discussion with an empire that views everyone not of its core race as inferior by birth and nature. But that's not what I'm seeing here; CVA is coming off reasonable, and you're hopping all over them like crazed slaver-hound pups. I didn't think it was possible, but you've lowered the tone of the place. Worse, you've made CVA look like a bunch of mature, thoughtful people while you come off as being ... well, what they'd like us to think you are. I'm not speaking to all of you, but it should be pretty bloody clear who I'm addressing. You're pilots. If anything, your minds should be several months to years older than your bodies.
Wanoah Minmatar NeuroGEN	Posted - 2007.07.28 01:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Aria Jenneth When you've got what most of the cluster's denizens (outside of Amarr space, anyway) will concede is justice on your side, why dirty that with these cheap shots and sneering insults? I would suggest that it is out of habit as much as anything. People that are so used to sniping at each other in space tend to carry it over to the comms channels as well. The conflict has been a long and punishing one, and the exchange of bitter words is the least of it.
Murukan Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.07.28 02:43:00 - [25] ahh so you guys do try and fight it. I was just quite taken aback by the shear amount of the drones. I find it very petty though that the majority of the discussion was focused around nitpicking cva space from amarr low sec as that's hardly the issue. Mattduck you're really dragging for sludge if you try and say that killing these mindless haulers a blow to free space policy. And i'm quite sure i'm not deranged so the pie peanut gallery can stay content rabbling from the safety of their high sec homes. Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 03:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Murukan I was just quite taken aback by the shear amount of the drones. So are we. It's a great sore point for the CVA for reasons that are mostly off limits for discussion in this particular setting. Needless to say, the engagement policies that CVA tries to push in any of our areas of influence are the very engagement policies that allow this kind of garbage to take place, and that's a real head-scratcher when it comes to setting policy regarding these drones.
Xavier Fate Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.28 06:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Murukan ahh so you guys do try and fight it. I was just quite taken aback by the shear amount of the drones. I find it very petty though that the majority of the discussion was focused around nitpicking cva space from amarr low sec as that's hardly the issue. Mattduck you're really dragging for sludge if you try and say that killing these mindless haulers a blow to free space policy. And i'm quite sure i'm not deranged so the pie peanut gallery can stay content rabbling from the safety of their high sec homes. I am absolutely positive that if you asked CVA if they minded you killing these so called drones in CVA space, they'd probably consent to it. Do so.
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:16:00 - [28] You are right, Mr. Fate, I have to apologize. It was just too tempting after the constant blabla of how Providence would be a better place without UK. It's never been very cosy but today it is a ****hole.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Murukan ahh so you guys do try and fight it. I was just quite taken aback by the shear amount of the drones. I find it very petty though that the majority of the discussion was focused around nitpicking cva space from amarr low sec as that's hardly the issue. Mattduck you're really dragging for sludge if you try and say that killing these mindless haulers a blow to free space policy. And i'm quite sure i'm not deranged so the pie peanut gallery can stay content rabbling from the safety of their high sec homes. Firstly, it's Mattduk. Not Mattduck. Secondly, CVA are always trumpeting their NRDS policy in Providence, claiming that the Minmatar are the 'pirates' and 'terrorists'. If CVA hadn't made such an effort to defend their policy of NRDS, then I would not have picked up on one guy suggesting that they are shooting neutrals. I'm not the one with the contradiction in policy here. I am merely pointing it out. If you are NRDS, then be NRDS, don't BS your way through with holier than though statements left, right and centre. Maybe I am misunderstanding the term 'drones', and 'mindless haulers'. Maybe I misread between the lines. Regards Mattduk
Whissy	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Mattduk Maybe I am misunderstanding the term 'drones', and 'mindless haulers'. Maybe I misread between the lines. Regards Mattduk They are illegal automated computer controlled vessels, there is no pod pilot in it. They do those Agent missions moving stuff around, and all isk they will gather will go to blackmarket for sale. They dont care anything, they just go around around and around. When their vessels are destroyed like sanshas at gate (which is common sight), they just get new vessel and carry on like nothing has happened. They have been reported to higher athorities, but nothing has happened, and there is LOTS of them, hundreds.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Kabajashi San You are right, Mr. Fate, I have to apologize. It was just too tempting after the constant blabla of how Providence would be a better place without UK. It's never been very cosy but today it is a ****hole. I found it a very cozy place yesterday, when we pursued your ganksquad from Amarr, to R3, to DP and finally got a fight. You can drop the verbal diarrhea now, chimpy. ----------------------------------------------
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:06:00 - [32] Originally by: Whissy Originally by: Mattduk Maybe I am misunderstanding the term 'drones', and 'mindless haulers'. Maybe I misread between the lines. Regards Mattduk They are illegal automated computer controlled vessels, there is no pod pilot in it. They do those Agent missions moving stuff around, and all isk they will gather will go to blackmarket for sale. They dont care anything, they just go around around and around. When their vessels are destroyed like sanshas at gate (which is common sight), they just get new vessel and carry on like nothing has happened. They have been reported to higher athorities, but nothing has happened, and there is LOTS of them, hundreds. Then I fully believe I did understand the term as used in the original statement. But that does not change the fact that on one hand you have an Amarr pilot saying that they have reported them to DED and cannot/will not engage them, yet on the other hand you have an Amarr pilot stating that they have engaged them but the damage done to their security status is preventing them from continuing to engage them. The greater community's feelings towards these 'drones' is irrelevant. Whether we all want them gone or not is not the issue here. The issue is the blatant disregard to CVA policy of NRDS, while at the same time they claim a devout following of said policy. THAT is the issue. Regards Mattduk
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Mattduk THAT is the issue. Regards Mattduk You got other, more pressing, issues to deal with. Such as being a waste of space. ----------------------------------------------
Equinox Daedalus Caldari The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:03:00 - [34] Edited by: Equinox Daedalus on 28/07/2007 14:07:45 Well Muri, I oft have respect for many of our adversarys, however these brainless M.A.C.R.O.E.R.S. who have been coerced into running agent missions for standings tend to fly bessies and other cheap haulers. It used to be that these "zombies" flew a bit better technology that warrented the dismissial of them from thier ships. Due to the fact that these zombies fly in low sec systems back and forth, and even if destroyed can "easily" replace thier vessel thour unkown zombie means (who knew zombies could use the market : ) ) it has been discussed many a time between the CVA ventrans as well as local residents of the area as how to best rid ourselves of them. Numerous petitions to DED result in meaningless "we'll look into it" replies, as well as shooting them down results in sec status being "wasted" on something that MOST cva cannot afford to do on a regular basis. CVA has marked many a KNOWN zombie down, and they are on our KOS list as things to be shot down if possible, but we also feel that wasting sec status is not a foolish issue, as we oft have to go after those who would run from us into high sec. So CVA does not "encourage" the shooting of zombies, only because often times zombies hide among others, sneaking in and out. And as we do not run a shoot first ask questions later mentatlity, we give citizens of npc corps benifits of the doubt most of the time. As such, we hate to see "innocent" civilians targeted by accident. So better to file our concerns with DED and wait to see if they give us any means to end this infestation To those who wish to derail the true nature of the issue at hand, the fact that DED refuse to do anything about it, or make us have a means to do anything about it in low security space system that do not result upon our being crimiaally flagged for ridding the space systems of these zombies (as i would agree that everyone else who is not a zombie would think that be a good idea. ) it doesn't make our job that much easier of patroling the spacelanes for true terrorists and pirates and the general "unfrendlies" that venture into our area of protections. So muri, feel free to shoot those zombies! (as your are hostile to us i'm sure it wouldn't matter much) As for the bitter brain dead ex uk and thier mates....well....you know where to find us. Just look for Unity Station. Oh wait, thats right.... Its not Unity anymore Amarr Victor!! The Legion of Spoon : Upon wings of wax I fly, never to close to the sun
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.28 15:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Mattduk The greater community's feelings towards these 'drones' is irrelevant. Whether we all want them gone or not is not the issue here. The issue is the blatant disregard to CVA policy of NRDS, while at the same time they claim a devout following of said policy. THAT is the issue. Pilot, you're going to find that there are a great many technically correct points you can make that, rather than gaining you any rhetorical ground, lose it on the grounds of being a twit. Exhibit A ... Games of "gotcha," popular though they may be, don't look to third parties like serious or admirable discussion. This issue is not THE issue so much as YOUR issue, and your efforts to make it OUR issue do not greatly help your case. In other words, if you want to point fingers at CVA and yell, "nyah, nyah, you're a pack of filthy hypocrites" with nothing to back it up but literalism, please restrict it to private comms so the rest of us don't have to bear witness to your antics and those who have more important things to think about can block the transmission.
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Mattduk The greater community's feelings towards these 'drones' is irrelevant. Whether we all want them gone or not is not the issue here. The issue is the blatant disregard to CVA policy of NRDS, while at the same time they claim a devout following of said policy. THAT is the issue. Regards Mattduk The problem is the inconsistency between the CVA policy which you are imagining and the CVA policy which actually exists. I am a mere peon but as I understand it, drone/zombie/whatever-you-call-them pilots do not fit our definition of "neutral". They are a special case, a problem in search of an effective solution. We've tried extermination, we've tried reporting them to higher authorities, but nothing seems to stop them. One thing is certain; they are an annoyance and an affront to all pod pilots of good character. I appreciate the depth of your concern over CVA adhering to its ideals. I believe it's a sign that God is calling you to the righteousness of Amarr. This may be the first step on your path to salvation! Thank you for focusing so much time and energy verifying that CVA is upholding the glory of our God and Empire!
Redwolf Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:48:00 - [37] Edited by: Redwolf on 28/07/2007 18:48:25 Originally by: Xavier Fate Originally by: Murukan ahh so you guys do try and fight it. I was just quite taken aback by the shear amount of the drones. I find it very petty though that the majority of the discussion was focused around nitpicking cva space from amarr low sec as that's hardly the issue. Mattduck you're really dragging for sludge if you try and say that killing these mindless haulers a blow to free space policy. And i'm quite sure i'm not deranged so the pie peanut gallery can stay content rabbling from the safety of their high sec homes. I am absolutely positive that if you asked CVA if they minded you killing these so called drones in CVA space, they'd probably consent to it. Do so. I'm afraid not, doing so would likely result in any said pilot becoming the R in NRDS. Due to the reasons Garreck posted right above you with such eloquence. (He is half Tau Ceti French after all....) Not that i'm sure that's a problem, all the non-CVA posters in this transmission already are..... except Gaius the old dog! ---- It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Mattduk THAT is the issue. Regards Mattduk You got other, more pressing, issues to deal with. Such as being a waste of space. Now was that absolutely necessary? Insults will get you nowhere.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:12:00 - [39] Edited by: Mattduk on 29/07/2007 10:13:04 Originally by: Montague Zooma I am a mere peon but as I understand it, drone/zombie/whatever-you-call-them pilots do not fit our definition of "neutral". That's all you had to say. There, now that wasn't so hard was it? And it didn't involve one insult. Congratulations, despite your allegiances, there's hope for you yet. Regards Mattduk Edit: Oh, and btw, no energy wasted. It doesn't take hardly any energy at all to find flaw in the Amarrian way of life.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.29 15:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Mattduk It doesn't take hardly any energy at all to find flaw in the Amarrian way of life. Just one fleeting glance is all that is required. Originally by: Mattduk Now was that absolutely necessary? Insults will get you nowhere. Speaking of hypocrisy. Can we bring this enlightening little exchange of ideas to a close, please?
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Mattduk Edited by: Mattduk on 29/07/2007 10:19:32 Edited by: Mattduk on 29/07/2007 10:13:04 Originally by: Montague Zooma I am a mere peon but as I understand it, drone/zombie/whatever-you-call-them pilots do not fit our definition of "neutral". But there is still the problem with conflicting posts in this thread. On the one hand you still have Amarrian pilots stating that their policy does not allow for them to shoot the 'drones', yet on the other hand you have Amarrian pilots complaining about losing sec status due to shooting the 'drones'. Its quite simple really, it is CVA policy to avoid shooting them in low sec because of the loss of security status. Where is the conflict? ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director

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