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ZEUUL	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:19:00 - [1] Some of you won't like this thread but WTF. I detest John Doe being blatantly lied to by those he is forced to trust, namely our military/political leaders. Here goes. Our leading pop scientists were delivering theories in a cool documentary about how/why UFO's work. Thought you may be interested. Warp Theory The other clips in the sho3 Forget rocket fuel theory, in fact, there is no conclusive viable evidence that humanity has actually left the Earth's atmosphere using rockets. You ain't got time to do the mountains of research to check so I found a subject to break your trust in Nasa Rockets. Mars. You can simply prove that Nasa is a cover up agency by doing a google search with the code words BLUE SKY MARS, and photographic evidence will confuse or amaze you to at least question accepted facts about space travel. Then study the other side of the coin...Billy Meier who has photos of US flags on rocket ships in orbit around Mars taken in the 1970's. HERE By the way, the Meier photos are hoaxes en par with Nasa'a opposing facts, i.e. they are in the same coverup program that is today intensly focused within US colleges. Confused yet? No probs, I'm just a little bitter by how deeply we are being lied to and want to hold your fleeting attention a sec. Don't mind me, just remember the 1950's movies like The day the Earth Stood still/Forbidden Planet, were actually more accurate Hollywood impressions of cosmic travel than today's Nasa influenced Star Wars rocket fuel ships that various games today still follow to deepen our chem trail impression onto our collective psyche. Why Hollywood no do saucer movie no more if people all over tha worl see em daili? If you got this far Dorothy and want to dig deeper into the wabbit ole, then research what Nasa is actually hiding from us. The answers will shake your soul. C'est Tout.Merci. Every day I break your bubbles, the world accelerates it's collapse.You kno who u r. I Win,I crushed your souls.And the minions are nothing to my warriors so strong.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:31:00 - [2] LAWD is dat some COPYPASTA? 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Lal QelThyr Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:38:00 - [3] I was wondering how long DS would take to post :P I like how you cover the entire "NASA is ebil" thing by showing that they tinted the NASA photos. Its not like NASA have admitted they did this to play into the belief of the Red Planet. Oh no. Never!
UPA Terf Scorn Again.	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:04:00 - [4] And i direct you to penn and teller sir please come away.. ------------------------------ *~~IM ELEGANT LIKE A BLOODY FLOWER AWRIGHT!?~~*
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:52:00 - [5] Nostradamus ate my hamster. -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.29 01:03:00 - [6] In other news, the earth is actually flat! And hollow! ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 01:20:00 - [7] OMG, the stupidity. Any idiot with a half decent telescope can look at the Space Shuttle's (when they are not busy blowing up or disintigrating during reentry) and the International Space Station.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.29 01:26:00 - [8] Quote: when they are not busy blowing up or disintigrating during reentry That's not very funny... Building the homestead
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.07.29 01:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Mtthias Clemi Nostradamus ate my hamster. He prophesied he would eat it though, so you were warned.
R'olyat Gallente Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.07.29 02:32:00 - [10] Originally by: ZEUUL yadda yadda yadda warp drive blibbidy yada yada yada ORLY? ------------------------- I make sigs! Contact me ingame if you need one made.
ZEUUL	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:07:00 - [11] You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. --------------------------------------------- Every day I break your bubbles, the world accelerates it's collapse.You kno who u r. I Win,I crushed your souls.And the minions are nothing to my warrio
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:08:00 - [12] Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. This thread is epic fail, but it still creates great lulz. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Multras Caldari Nirvana. W A S T E L A N D	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:36:00 - [13] DS dont be an internet hate machine.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.07.29 03:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 29/07/2007 03:37:53 Originally by: Multras DS dont be an internet hate machine. You better watch out, I'm a hacker on steroids! Remember though, if you get a dog, you're safe. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 04:35:00 - [15] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: when they are not busy blowing up or disintigrating during reentry That's not very funny... But true. it is damn sad as well.
Lal QelThyr Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:09:00 - [16] NASA have provided answers about why they tinted the pictures red though. It was because the public expected them to be red. Cant really go about calling it the red planet if it ain't really red can you? And there are plenty of possible explanations for silent aircraft. The could be electro powered gliders for all we know. Yes, the governments of the world are keeping secrets from its citizens, but most of them are doing so because leaking that info would put said citizens at risk, ala hostile forces using them to attack. And there have been plenty of films/TV Series that show space craft using propulsion devices other than rocket propellant. I fail to see how we are being spoon fed information that this is the only route for space travel. All in all. Fail, 0/10 conspiracy theory.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:47:00 - [17] After being referred to by the OP as the Gestapo on our public boards, needless to say either someone is taking the **** or the OP needs some mental help. Hoping its the former . 50m Sig Contest!
Vina Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.29 05:56:00 - [18] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: when they are not busy blowing up or disintigrating during reentry That's not very funny... I lol'd ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:10:00 - [19] I find the goofiness of the first video linked quite amusing. This stuff is fun to watch and read about. It's like ACTION NEWS. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:24:00 - [20] In all seriousness, how can NASA conspiracy theorists and moon landing deniers still exist when someone's won the X Prize? That's holocaust-denial insane. The only thing NASA's trying to cover up is their own incompetence. And they're too incompetent to even pull that off.
Samuel Carthage Caldari Wilde Cards	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:40:00 - [21] As much as I think moon landing conspiracies are bull, I found the warp drive segment really interesting. How anyone can debate Einstein logic, I'm not sure.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 29/07/2007 06:54:43 Originally by: ZEUUL Forget rocket fuel theory, in fact, there is no conclusive viable evidence that humanity has actually left the Earth's atmosphere using rockets. Uhmm...you are free to make a trip to Cape Canaveral in Florida and watch the shuttle blast off. There is an area open to the public where you can watch the launch (rocket powered I might add). Then as another poster mentioned buy a modest telescope and you can see it up there as it passes. Heck...you do not even need a telescope. I live in Chicago and about a month ago the International Space Station (ISS) was visible to the naked eye. Of course unaided it looked like a star albeit a star moving across the sky at a constant speed. Again a simple telescope would improve things there (look for a local astronomy club in your area...I am sure they'd be happy to show you these things).
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h evidence Look dude, I've never been into space, so you don't have any conclusive proof, ok? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Bosie Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:42:00 - [24] Originally by: Samuel Carthage As much as I think moon landing conspiracies are bull, I found the warp drive segment really interesting. How anyone can debate Einstein's theory's, I'm not sure. Fixed. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND."
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.29 09:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Imperator Jora'h evidence Look dude, I've never been into space, so you don't have any conclusive proof, ok? I've never been to Tokyo either so I do not have conclusive proof it is there but I'm willing to take many other people's opinion who have been there that it is, in fact, there.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.29 09:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Frug I find the goofiness of the first video linked quite amusing. What's goofy about it? Those are real physicists telling you how things do work and speculating on stuff like warp drives. They'd be the first to admit they have no idea if it is really possible much less practical but it's fun to ponder.
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Frug I find the goofiness of the first video linked quite amusing. What's goofy about it? Those are real physicists telling you how things do work and speculating on stuff like warp drives. They'd be the first to admit they have no idea if it is really possible much less practical but it's fun to ponder. I've never met you. Do you exist? See, you can take this thing too far so easily.
Rana Ash Minmatar Aeon Trinity	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:42:00 - [28] WTS: Tin Foil Hats, three layers. Impervious to most Government transmissions.. ¦on Trinity is recruting, inquire within for details lyret dedreen
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:53:00 - [29] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 29/07/2007 11:54:47 wts chelms modified tinfoil hat 15 billion isk only 3 left !!!!!
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Rana Ash WTS: Tin Foil Hats, three layers. Impervious to most Government transmissions.. Remember: You MUST use off-brand tinfoil to fashion your hat. The name brand tinfoil companies are in collusion with the military-industrial complex, the Bavarian Illuminati, and the Grays. Their foil is treated to allow the mind control rays right on through.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:19:00 - [31] Originally by: ZEUUL Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? Many photos that NASA takes are color-treated to bring out particular features, actually. They'll usually let you know in the caption... Quote: Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? The same reason why some people think the earth is flat. Quote: Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? People decide what to put in movies based on public perception (or specifically to discount it, depending). And I find your claims regarding these fuel-less silent saucer-shaped ships to be highly suspect. Do they exist? Most likely, considering that though the vast majority are discounted there are some whose existence cannot be explained. Are they government technology? Possible, as the government hides plenty of stuff from the public. Do we know any of this, or does the evidence presented by credible sources indicate this? No. Until I receive evidence from a credible source - someone with any actual credentials, then I will seriously consider the possibilities. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
Hast Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:02:00 - [32] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Rana Ash WTS: Tin Foil Hats, three layers. Impervious to most Government transmissions.. Remember: You MUST use off-brand tinfoil to fashion your hat. The name brand tinfoil companies are in collusion with the military-industrial complex, the Bavarian Illuminati, and the Grays. Their foil is treated to allow the mind control rays right on through. noes! they have infiltrated the tinfoil industry /o\ Originally by: omeega PICTURE TOO BIG, KGB INCOMING HAVE FUN.
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.29 22:57:00 - [33] Edited by: Scorpyn on 29/07/2007 22:57:56 In the trailer for the movie Transformers, you can see clouds in the sky of Mars. How can there be clouds with no atmosphere? Clearly NASA has been lying to us. "Seriously" though, the OP is so far away from the truth that it isn't even funny. It's much, much worse (btw, tinfoil hats have been proven to enhance military frequencies) 2007-07-19 20:26
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:08:00 - [34] Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. The only alien technology that i know of that has crossed over is when your doctor sticks his finger up your arse to check yor prostate.
Mary Makepeace Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.30 12:19:00 - [35] so due to the the expression of gravity being considered a warp in space time, that it can lens starlight for example, the first video posits that it is obviously easy to create a warp drive. to compress space time in front of a vehicle and expand it behind allowing it to accelerate. there are a couple of problems with this. gravity lensing requires a large mass, a very, very large mass, like the mass of a sun. the expansion of spacetime would generate a repulsive field, or negative gravity, which would require a negative mass. so your warp drive must consist of a mass in front and a negative mass behind in the order of magnitude of stellar proportions. what i want to see to give this kind of idea any credence is the observation of negative mass. as far as we know, matter/energy (same thing) can neither be destroyed or created. as far as i know, there is simply no evidence of a negative mass. but lets say that you can take a piece of vacuum, take mass away from one place and add it to another, this would be you warp drive. my questions are, now do you take macrocropic amounts of mass from vacuum? especially amounts of mass that are of stellar proportions? and how much energy does it cost you to do so? next problem, your ship fall down the slope to the stellar sized mass, but it conveniently it moves ahead of you always giving you a slope with no bottom. what causes this stellar sized mass to move? what about it's inertia? so all we have to do to make a warp drive, is create negative mass and remove inertia from mass with a reasonable energy cost. excellent, something to look at this weekend.....
Ealiom Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:04:00 - [36] Edited by: Ealiom on 30/07/2007 13:07:40 Edited by: Ealiom on 30/07/2007 13:05:39 While your at it - if you have a spare 5 minutes can you look into cold fusion. Id love that for my birthday thanks! Conspiracy freaks FTW! Gonna love em' p.s. Go to any of the websites showing pictures of galaxies and stars, almost all of them have been digitally enhanced and colour corrected. Otherwise we would have boring shots of dull coloured smudges. It says on the websites that the photographs have been altered. p.p.s. I always find it funny when i consider how many people would have to be in on the conspiracy to keep it secret from the public. When something as simple as a harry potter book gets torn apart and leaked across the world in a few short days. Executioner Model Blackbird Model
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Mary Makepeace so due to the the expression of gravity being considered a warp in space time, that it can lens starlight for example, the first video posits that it is obviously easy to create a warp drive. to compress space time in front of a vehicle and expand it behind allowing it to accelerate. there are a couple of problems with this. gravity lensing requires a large mass, a very, very large mass, like the mass of a sun. the expansion of spacetime would generate a repulsive field, or negative gravity, which would require a negative mass. so your warp drive must consist of a mass in front and a negative mass behind in the order of magnitude of stellar proportions. what i want to see to give this kind of idea any credence is the observation of negative mass. as far as we know, matter/energy (same thing) can neither be destroyed or created. as far as i know, there is simply no evidence of a negative mass. but lets say that you can take a piece of vacuum, take mass away from one place and add it to another, this would be you warp drive. my questions are, now do you take macrocropic amounts of mass from vacuum? especially amounts of mass that are of stellar proportions? and how much energy does it cost you to do so? next problem, your ship fall down the slope to the stellar sized mass, but it conveniently it moves ahead of you always giving you a slope with no bottom. what causes this stellar sized mass to move? what about it's inertia? so all we have to do to make a warp drive, is create negative mass and remove inertia from mass with a reasonable energy cost. excellent, something to look at this weekend..... Well, actually... Decreasing the mass in front of you and increasing it behind you at that scale would not make you go forwards, it'd make you to go backwards. 2007-07-19 20:26
Mary Makepeace Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.30 13:33:00 - [38] Edited by: Mary Makepeace on 30/07/2007 13:33:26 Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Mary Makepeace so your warp drive must consist of a mass in front and a negative mass behind in the order of magnitude of stellar proportions. Well, actually... Decreasing the mass in front of you and increasing it behind you at that scale would not make you go forwards, it'd make you to go backwards. thanks for the correction.
Xoria Krint 5th Avenue	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Xoria Krint on 30/07/2007 14:21:33 Last night I actually took a second and looked upon the nice stars and planets. As a kid I was very fascinated by space so I knew where to look to find Mars on the sky. And trust me. It's still like a RED dot in the sky.. RED I SAY! Explain that to me! Oh wait! NASA photoshoped the sky? EDIT: How can they make THIS to THIS?. And THIS to a city? Now Recruiting - Forums
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Xoria Krint Last night I actually took a second and looked upon the nice stars and planets. As a kid I was very fascinated by space so I knew where to look to find Mars on the sky. And trust me. It's still like a RED dot in the sky.. RED I SAY! Explain that to me! Oh wait! NASA photoshoped the sky? Nah, they use giant filters. 2007-07-19 20:26
Xoria Krint 5th Avenue	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Scorpyn Nah, they use giant filters. Ah! A giant red filter! Thats so cleaver of them! Now Recruiting - Forums
ZEUUL	Posted - 2007.08.04 16:27:00 - [42] Mars has so many bizzare anomalies, no wonder Nasa exists to hide stuff. But why? Mars looks red, from Earth. Yeah right. Earth also looks blue from Mars perhaps, but as far as I am concerned, Earth construct is mostly Rock vegitation concrete and brick where I live, and a mass of water down by my beach, which actually isn't blue either. Originally by: Mary Makepeace so due to the the expression of gravity being considered a warp in space time, that it can lens starlight for example, the first video posits that it is obviously easy to create a warp drive. to compress space time in front of a vehicle and expand it behind allowing it to accelerate. there are a couple of problems with this. gravity lensing requires a large mass, a very, very large mass, like the mass of a sun. the expansion of spacetime would generate a repulsive field, or negative gravity, which would require a negative mass. so your warp drive must consist of a mass in front and a negative mass behind in the order of magnitude of stellar proportions. what i want to see to give this kind of idea any credence is the observation of negative mass. as far as we know, matter/energy (same thing) can neither be destroyed or created. as far as i know, there is simply no evidence of a negative mass. but lets say that you can take a piece of vacuum, take mass away from one place and add it to another, this would be you warp drive. my questions are, now do you take macrocropic amounts of mass from vacuum? especially amounts of mass that are of stellar proportions? and how much energy does it cost you to do so? next problem, your ship fall down the slope to the stellar sized mass, but it conveniently it moves ahead of you always giving you a slope with no bottom. what causes this stellar sized mass to move? what about it's inertia? so all we have to do to make a warp drive, is create negative mass and remove inertia from mass with a reasonable energy cost. excellent, something to look at this weekend..... I noticed in the video clips a lot of hinting to different facts/theories by the animation video engineers to what was said by those scientists. If you look for them you will notice them in most documentaries and movies as sequential symbology. First layer is usually editing, but in this video, the ship was doing varius actions, in sync with the narration. Again, if you are looking you will see beyond ambiguity. I noticed that as the scientists were bending space ahead and behind, the ship may actually be warping itself not space. The theory of motherships crossing vast distances in the blink of an eye was not mentioned in that video, but is a common and more realistic theory for interstellar travel. Eve jump gates dissasemble our molecular structure to send us across to the next system. Equally, one could say that we also travel interdimensionally. There, we are dealing with a new field of humane science. A forbidden or uncharted arena where anti matter theory perhaps is more dynamic. I prefer to assume that we cannot travel through a vacum without hitting a speed limit of some kind as we are throwing mass against mass, but if we merged with the vacum mass, like the eve gates do with our ships and energy, we also cross reality boundaries? Conspiracies are based (as all stories) on fact. With that wisdom behind you, you can easily discern the true angle of programming the show wants to impress upon the average lay viewer. In this case, inspire those with hybrid or abduction experiences on a genetic level, and to keep the masses lost. This is the standard method of programming useful information secretly in the Sci-Fi movie indoctrination programs that were boosted recently on the screen and now in game format, aka missinformation in the documentary industry. Really, I still don't know everything, but I sure am going to..one day..somehow. JS. --------------------------------------------- Every day I break your bubbles, the world accelerates it's collapse.You kno who u r. I Win,I crushed your souls.And the minions are nothing to my warrio
Istian Goss	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:12:00 - [43] ROFL I've read a refutation of the whole blue sky thing (unfortunately I can't seem to find it again, but there are many out there e.g: http://www.atsnn.com/marscolors.html). From what I gather its to do with the colour filtering; they are not using a 'conventional' digital camera but are also imaging into the IR. I doubt this arguement will be listened to by those who believe NASA is a cover up; conspiracy theories rely a priori on there being a conspiracy. Not it's specific form but they desperately want to believe there is one. Also this warp thing; it's always talked about but it does verge on the impossible. Given that our sun deviates starlight by only a few degrees surely the gravitational field of the craft would destroy itself?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:28:00 - [44] Originally by: Istian Goss Also this warp thing; it's always talked about but it does verge on the impossible. Given that our sun deviates starlight by only a few degrees surely the gravitational field of the craft would destroy itself? If you're talking about the Alcubierre drive, it would involve two things: a) Negative mass (as space is bent in a "negative" way) or equivalent method of bending space b) An absurd amount of energy, approaching that of thousands of supernovas. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.04 23:10:00 - [45] Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? Because it's awesomtastic? Because red is cooler than brown? Who cares? I ordered a McDonald's the other day and they accidentally gave me a Coke instead of a Diet Coke. Does that mean my burger was really made of chicken, and I didn't notice? The dastards! --------
Priest Valour Amarr Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.08.05 01:18:00 - [46] Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. You are confused but on the right track, follow it see what it unveils.
Priest Valour Amarr Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2007.08.05 01:20:00 - [47] Originally by: Ealiom Edited by: Ealiom on 30/07/2007 13:07:40 Edited by: Ealiom on 30/07/2007 13:05:39 While your at it - if you have a spare 5 minutes can you look into cold fusion. Id love that for my birthday thanks! Conspiracy freaks FTW! Gonna love em' p.s. Go to any of the websites showing pictures of galaxies and stars, almost all of them have been digitally enhanced and colour corrected. Otherwise we would have boring shots of dull coloured smudges. It says on the websites that the photographs have been altered. p.p.s. I always find it funny when i consider how many people would have to be in on the conspiracy to keep it secret from the public. When something as simple as a harry potter book gets torn apart and leaked across the world in a few short days. Well maybe thats part of the conspiracy
Tenerhaddi Dark Skyes	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:28:00 - [48] I like the crap post about cover ups etc! I mean WTF? tho video i like on youtube! Still cover ups and lies etc what a load of bull
Tenerhaddi Dark Skyes	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Locus Bey Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. The only alien technology that i know of that has crossed over is when your doctor sticks his finger up your arse to check yor prostate. OMG i been suject to abuse? I thought the doctor just like me
Ciphero The Wild Hunt FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:45:00 - [50] Clearly, Photoshop and Premiere are the tools to start a revolution. I could make the sun appear purple and dance around the sky for you in a video if I wanted, it doesn't mean it's what actually happens. Sometimes life just isn't that exciting. --
Tenerhaddi Dark Skyes	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:48:00 - [51] mmm what do you think about this video? Linkage
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.08.05 11:26:00 - [52] Now I feel seriously tempted to create a personal Alt-Corp. "Bavarian-Illuminatus Tinfoil Hatters"
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.08.06 03:53:00 - [53] ZEUUL is the best thing to happen to the boards since bananagirl stopped posting and Derisor quit. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Belloc Slunv Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.06 04:13:00 - [54] Originally by: ZEUUL You are missing the point guys, not unexpected. Why would Nasa lie about the color of Mars to the world? No answers right? Why can people still not agree that we went to the moon? Why do we see rocket ships in our movies and fantasy Nasa space trips if every country has long lists of government reports of fuel less silent saucer shaped ships? Because of alien holographic technology? Or because our leaders are hiding alien technology? Because the post WWII scientists were working from alien technology? Because people are too scared to agree openly? There must be a reason to hide from the obvious. I stopped reading at this, so I apologize if this was said. Because people are asshats and have to aruge every single point to the point of total ***** ludicrasy so they can show they have the biggest ***** tinfoil hat of all.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:38:00 - [55] To the OP: If you actually want to educate yourself on this and not blindly hold to conspiracy theories you should read this: What Color is Mars? It is not very long and spells out the issues nicely. Also included are links to further discussions on the topic including one to some message boards where conspiracy types try to show how it is all bogus and how in every case they are provably refuted. I really hope some method for (effectively) FTL travel exists. As mentioned while theory suggests perhaps it could be achieved as a practical matter all these ideas are the realm of science fiction (e.g. obtaining the stupendous amounts of energy to pull it off just is not doable). It would really stink if we are forever bound to our own solar system. Eventually we'll need to get off this rock and move on (not for a long, long while yet). The thought of being stuck in a Generation Ship is not a pleasant one but so far the only viable option.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:53:00 - [56] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h It would really stink if we are forever bound to our own solar system. You don't need FTL travel for that. There are some very practical ways to travel very quickly while still travelling under the speed of light. Here's what you do. 1. Send a fast unmanned mission to colonize a rocky planet very near the sun of your target solar system. Hopefully its not that far away, maybe a dozen or two dozen light years at most. 2. The unmanned mission consists of robots and such equipment that can mine metal and build solar panels and lasers and little else. 3. The unmanned mission lands on the innermost rocky planet and builds hundreds of square kilometers of solar panels to gather energy, combined with a gigantic ultra-high-power laser beam. The laser beam is not required to be extremely precise; it should be wide enough at the end of the beam so as to be relatively spread out (like a kilometer or two wide). 4. Do the same on Mercury. 5. When we launch a spacecraft, to accelerate, it opens a giant solar sail and the humongous laser beam is pointed right at the solar sail, which has a similar width as the laser beam. 6. ZOOOOM! 7. At the other end of the trip, do the reverse: slow the ship down using the laser beam. Suddenly you can travel near lightspeed between two systems without any fanciful technology. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.06 13:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Dark Shikari Suddenly you can travel near lightspeed between two systems without any fanciful technology. I don't think you'd be able to achieve anything near lightspeed. Best I have seen for this is around 50% lightspeed. Granted that is pretty fast but realize that the thrust imparted by laser propulsion is pretty low. It would take 1-2 years to reach that speed. The cool thing though is you need not send robots ahead to build a laser at the other end. You just detach a portion of your lightsail to move in front of your ship and reflect light back at your ship slowing you down. Of course if it took you (say) 1.5 years to accelerate to that speed it'll take you even longer to slow down. So call it 4 years to accelerate and decelerate plus travel time in between. That is certainly better than a generation ship but hardly speedy either. Still, most think there are serious technical hurdles to doing this and they are not sure it is really doable. Focusing a laser at the ranges we are talking about for one thing would need to be hellishly precise. The most serious idea put forward to actually make one that works as you suggest is called Starwisp. It would be an ultra light probe (about 1 kilogram all told) powered by a laser (microwave laser to be more precise) for interstellar missions. Even that has issues though but it is interesting.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:14:00 - [58] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/08/2007 14:15:30 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Dark Shikari Suddenly you can travel near lightspeed between two systems without any fanciful technology. I don't think you'd be able to achieve anything near lightspeed. Best I have seen for this is around 50% lightspeed. Granted that is pretty fast but realize that the thrust imparted by laser propulsion is pretty low. It would take 1-2 years to reach that speed. The difference between this and other methods is normal methods are limited by the amount of fuel you can carry on your ship. By this method, you're: a) directly adding momentum to the ship b) if the solar sail is reflective, you're adding twice the momentum to the ship because the photons reverse direction rather than scatter c) not limited by fuel; the ship need not carry fuel for anything but maneuvering Its not achievable with current technology, but unlike most other methods all it needs is a refinement of current tech, rather than totally new science and technology. The problem with your slowing down method is it really does require the laser to be hellishly precise; because then you're using your laser from Mercury to slow down 10, 20, 30 light years away, which is ridiculous. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with your slowing down method is it really does require the laser to be hellishly precise; because then you're using your laser from Mercury to slow down 10, 20, 30 light years away, which is ridiculous. I agree it sounds absurd but that method is part of a genuine proposal (genuine as in they think it is feasible...not build it tomorrow). Interestingly I saw the proposed energy requirement for such a trip listed at 45,000 terawatts. For comparison total energy production on earth today is around 15 terawatts/year.
ZEUUL	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:26:00 - [60] Maybe not 20 light years away from Mercury with today's exposed technology, but in our future, with the underground technology, in a time when we own non terrestrial stations on or orbiting every planet close to sol. Solar/laser power sounds like a very cheap alternative to travel around the solar system, perhaps for cargo hauls between Mars and it's moons, or Neptune and mercury? Genius idea. Are we allowed to say that here? Genius idea mate. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h To the OP: Eventually we'll need to get off this rock and move on (not for a long, long while yet). The thought of being stuck in a Generation Ship is not a pleasant one but so far the only viable option. The so called Moon landings that occured so long ago actually occured by aid of mathematical technology we cxould sumize by today's standards to be as strong as a pocket calculator. Weird, but Nasa confirms that knowledge. I have posted mages of the new generation computers on this forum in the past. That three year old image is very obsolete, as today, there are computers built 100 times smaller and 100 times more powerful than the so called new technology article expresses. So with an accelerating tech discovery age, we haven't got that long really. We still have yet to develope bio-electronics to the market either. Though word is old that Russia and the US hold AI technology the like of sci-Fi movies, for simulating human responses aart from emotional simulations. But again, that is speculation through leaked reports. Originally by: Tenerhaddi mmm what do you think about this video? Linkage It looks human, and old. None of the government double-agent, freak and civilian reports of alian Earth landings over the years express vehicles with hatches or seals, just smooth metalic surfaces that the little grey men look through. Maybe it is alien. I never saw an alien hover car before. looked like a bomb or special car to me. --------------------------------------------- BUT IS AS THE SWEET PILLOW, OF ARMIES YOUNG OF WISE, LOVERS TO THEIR HIDE, SINGERS FLOWERS TOUCHED, IN THIS HEAVEN OF HEAVENS, THAT MIDAS KISSED.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:44:00 - [61] Well lets do the math on the laser. 2 * ((W watts) / c) / (M kg) * (T time) = non-relativistic velocity calculation for a ship of M mass, powered by a laser of W watts, after T time. The 2 is because the photons reverse direction (roughly) after hitting the mirrored solar sail, giving double the momentum to the target ship. Now let's calculate how much energy our laser could use, from Mercury. ((((1 / 0.466583778)^2) * 1 370 watts) per (square meter)) * (radius of Mercury^2) * pi = 1.1767495 + 10^17 watts 1.1767495 + 10^17 watts hit Mercury each second. Let's assume that the solar panels we use are 20% efficient; a reasonable number, as I doubt we'd use materials as rare as gallium arsenide for such a task. This gives us 2.353499 + 10^16 watts; still a nice large number. Today's lasers are getting more and more efficient. Let us assume that our Mercury laser is 40% efficient; probably an underestimate, given the difficulty of cooling an inefficient laser! This gives us 9.41399598 + 10^15 watts, still a nice large number. ((2 * ((9.41399598 + (10^15) watts) / c)) / (1 000 000 kg)) * (1 day) = 5 426 215.58 m / s That's actually about 6 Gs of acceleration, which means the laser is more powerful than we need it to be for a 1000 ton starship. This means a manned starship could be easily accelerated at an easy 1 G until they were going as fast as they wanted to (0.9c? 0.99c?) and an unmanned cargo vessel/probe, where acceleration was unlimited, could move incredibly quickly. Obviously there are technical challenges and the difficulty of creating an automated system of machines to "terraform" Mercury into a solar panel world, but it shows that it is very possible with current science. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Shanzem DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Dark Shikari Well lets do the math on the laser. 2 * ((W watts) / c) / (M kg) * (T time) = non-relativistic velocity calculation for a ship of M mass, powered by a laser of W watts, after T time. The 2 is because the photons reverse direction (roughly) after hitting the mirrored solar sail, giving double the momentum to the target ship. Now let's calculate how much energy our laser could use, from Mercury. ((((1 / 0.466583778)^2) * 1 370 watts) per (square meter)) * (radius of Mercury^2) * pi = 1.1767495 + 10^17 watts 1.1767495 + 10^17 watts hit Mercury each second. Let's assume that the solar panels we use are 20% efficient; a reasonable number, as I doubt we'd use materials as rare as gallium arsenide for such a task. This gives us 2.353499 + 10^16 watts; still a nice large number. Today's lasers are getting more and more efficient. Let us assume that our Mercury laser is 40% efficient; probably an underestimate, given the difficulty of cooling an inefficient laser! This gives us 9.41399598 + 10^15 watts, still a nice large number. ((2 * ((9.41399598 + (10^15) watts) / c)) / (1 000 000 kg)) * (1 day) = 5 426 215.58 m / s That's actually about 6 Gs of acceleration, which means the laser is more powerful than we need it to be for a 1000 ton starship. This means a manned starship could be easily accelerated at an easy 1 G until they were going as fast as they wanted to (0.9c? 0.99c?) and an unmanned cargo vessel/probe, where acceleration was unlimited, could move incredibly quickly. Obviously there are technical challenges and the difficulty of creating an automated system of machines to "terraform" Mercury into a solar panel world, but it shows that it is very possible with current science. DS your threads .. are then only ones worth reading, A, Correct spelling grammer, B, Neat tidy, well presented, with all calculations C, have the abblilty to back up all your information displayed with a scientfic artical comming from a very well known and reliable source D, Attauly make sense to me, from the usual spam/critics/tinfoil (bah) please keep it up, it nice to know theres attauly SANE people out there. -------------------------------------------
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Dark Shikari Well lets do the math on the laser. I am not a rocket scientist but I suspect your calculations are missing some of it. Are you assuming a perfectly reflective sail for instance? Does Doppler shift affect its performance as it accelerates? (I do not really know...just food for thought) From this: Laser Powered Instellar Probe they are calculating an enrgy need of 70 mw/year/kilogram. I'll let you read it (not very long) as the paper is describing a laser powered Ion Engine which (the author claims) would be more efficient than a laser pushed lightsail. Certainly it does not have all the math we are looking for but seems a good start and about the best I could find with a short Google search. Anyway, I am not arguing with you so much as having fun exploring the concept. I really hope this (or some technology) will prove feasible. They have tested light pushed craft already so the principle is sound. It's more a question of magnitude. Pushing something with light across a room is one thing...pushing something to another solar system is quite something else. I wouldn't be surprised though if they try to do this to a small probe someday. If even just to an outer planet in our own solar system just to try it out. Also, as for basing this at Mercury, seems an inhospitable place to build anything. But more than that a planet based laser system would seem to be a poor choice. As the planet rotates on its axis your laser would lose LOS to the spacecraft. You'd need a pile of these around the planet to keep a laser on the ship at all times (although your targetting gets more complex too as you allow for rotation and orbit). Then what happens as the planet orbits the sun? If the sun gets in the way you are out of luck. As such wouldn't a space based array make more sense? One that does not move (at least in relation to the planets)?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:32:00 - [64] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 06/08/2007 16:34:05 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Dark Shikari Well lets do the math on the laser. I am not a rocket scientist but I suspect your calculations are missing some of it. Are you assuming a perfectly reflective sail for instance? Does Doppler shift affect its performance as it accelerates? (I do not really know...just food for thought) Not sure about doppler shift; that's possible, but that would only matter at extremely fast speeds. I am assuming a perfectly reflective sail, but its very easy to get relatively close to that, one can assume a very high reflectivity (90-99%). Not enough to change the results. Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Also, as for basing this at Mercury, seems an inhospitable place to build anything. But more than that a planet based laser system would seem to be a poor choice. As the planet rotates on its axis your laser would lose LOS to the spacecraft. You'd need a pile of these around the planet to keep a laser on the ship at all times (although your targetting gets more complex too as you allow for rotation and orbit). Then what happens as the planet orbits the sun? If the sun gets in the way you are out of luck. As such wouldn't a space based array make more sense? One that does not move (at least in relation to the planets)? The sun won't be in the way most of the time. A space based array would be better, but much harder to build most likely. Its easier to build in a gravity well, where you don't have to boost your resources into space. For lasers, just build a few around the planet on pivots. Or build on the north and south poles. The laser powered ion engine looks to be much much harder because it requires very high efficiency solar cells on the probe itself. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!

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