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Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:25:00 - [1] Edited by: Richard Aiel on 30/07/2007 05:26:41 http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=26138 Magnus Bergsson on marketing EVE Online after a decade alone in space. Earlier this month Iceland's only game developer, CCP, celebrated its tenth birthday. As creator and publisher of space MMO EVE Online, the company's story is a classic tale of innovating to survive, creating a unique product and delivery method and thriving in a flourishing, and depressingly inevitable, me-too climate. A decade on from a beginning of three friends scouring ECTS with a broken prototype on a laptop, CCP's history shows a slow-burning success. EVE is now played by more than 170,000 people paying a premium rate of EUR 19.95 per month; a virtual society CEO Hilmar PTtursson claims isn't even a game running on a super-server called Tranquility; and a product bearing the reputation as the most hardcore experience in global PC gaming. CCP bought US developer White Wolf last November, marking the beginning of an expansion off the back of EVE's financial base and giving the Nordic company a route to both a second game in horror-fantasy franchise World of Darkness and a solid route to American retail. A World of Darkness MMO is now in development and is expected to be released in the next four to five years. CCP really isn't in any hurry. While progress may be measured, however, the Icelanders know how to pick their moment. Marketing director Magnus Bergsson revealed to GamesIndustry.biz at CCP's offices in Reykjavik last week that USD 7 million has been earmarked for marketing EVE Online this year, the first major media push in the game's history. A keen EVE player himself, Magnus filled us in on where the money's going to go, how the White Wolf merger will affect CCP's beloved internal corporate climate, and why he loves the ôevilnessö of in-game corporation life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GamesIndustry.biz: So, how are you going to spend your USD 7 million this year? Magnus Bergsson: Well, we're going to spend about USD 4 million on media buying. We have an ad agency in the US: they have about 10 people there working full-time almost for us. That's costing quite a bit, and it's been a learning process for us. We're used to doing everything here, and doing it really, really quickly. Working with an ad agency... Took much longer than we anticipated to get them actually started. It took, like, three months, and three months for us is like an eternity. We were getting extremely restless. Why is now the right time to push with all this money? First of all, we have it. Secondly, we want to go beyond 300,000 users. It is a goal we set for ourselves. If we do it this year that would be fantastic. It's not likely it will happen, but we're going to try. There's just so much stuff now. The game is so much easier for new players to enter than ever before, and we are lucky that the gameplay is controlled so much by the players and not by us: it never really gets old. It's timeless. And as more people are in the game, [the corporations - the EVE equivalent of guilds] need more people. That's how corporations work. It's the right time for us, we think. It's a very different growth curve from any other MMO. We know that. It's also because you don't have this leveling. You don't have a character at level 60 and a character at level one, and the character level 60's just going to pwn the guy who's level one. EVE doesn't work like that. It's a cooperation and everyone can participate. Please do not use your signature to troll - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:26:00 - [2] Are there any other ways you can grow the user base aside from straight marketing? For the sites we publish we use the viral aspects of the web, exclusivity of content... We do that as well. We're actually spending quite a bit of money on our buddy program and that type of marketing as well. We're going to do both. Our best ambassadors are our users. Which is why these recent allegations really hurt us. (CCP has been embroiled in allegations of developer corruption within the game in recent months. An employee was discovered to be using his official standing to procure advantageous items and currency for his corporation and alliance. The issue evoked high scandal in the EVE world - Ed.) It's just amazing that such a small group of people - it really is three people - can get a whole alliance up like that and create false allegations, just because they are feeling vindictive. So you're not pleased about all of that? I can tell you, I was feeling really depressed. Didn't you turn the forum off at one point? We had to. They were basically attacking our website. The forums just collapsed, so we had to shut them down in order to maintain stability on the website. We don't shut things down just because we don't like what's being said. We've never done that. Some people think we lock threads because we don't like them: that's not the reason. Sometimes we lock threads because of the language in there is outrageous. Just normal stuff. It might actually hurt us sometimes to be so open with our community. One of the reasons the community expects so much from us is because we have a little bit of a different attitude towards the whole relationship. But in the long run, we think it's better. As you start bringing in different demographics - such as casual gamers and women - will you adapt the game in any way to accommodate them? We will not dumb it down. We will never do that. It's not really possible. It's a big sandbox and we don't control the actual gameplay. It is a big universe. We're always going to have a lot to learn, but we're always trying to make the new player experience more accessible, and in the upcoming release we're doing more of those types of changes. One of the biggest issues is helping people get into a corporation. That's the critical decision point. When you do enter a player-run corp, that's when you start to see what the game is about. You don't see it when you're soloing or when you're in an NPC corp. So we're going to continue doing that better and better and better. Do you think there's room in the game for an official corp manned by staff, where people can learn the game with very little consequence? We just don't want to. It's a core of our beliefs that game developers should not be like God and try to change things in that way. We really want the players to operate the game. It would be against what we believe. The amazing thing is that there are player corporations built just to help new players. So no, we don't want to do that. We want players to join player-run corporations. So we're going to try to help people go through the first two months, but it's always going to be dependent on you to do a lot of this stuff yourself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Magnus Bergsson is marketing director for EVE Online. Interview by Pat Garratt. To read part two of this feature, visit GamesIndustry.biz next week. Please do not use your signature to troll - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Tractormech Caldari Axe Gang	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:02:00 - [3] Oh god 300K users? The server will be a crapshoot.
Wargercy	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:03:00 - [4] Good post, but it tears me up inside to know that it will probably be completely disregarded by most people.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:25:00 - [5] Edited by: Death Kill on 30/07/2007 06:25:53 Originally by: Richard Aiel [ As you start bringing in different demographics - such as casual gamers and women - will you adapt the game in any way to accommodate them? We will not dumb it down. We will never do that. Too late for that stacking nerf hp increase boosted concord and police factions Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 30/07/2007 06:25:53 Originally by: Richard Aiel [ As you start bringing in different demographics - such as casual gamers and women - will you adapt the game in any way to accommodate them? We will not dumb it down. We will never do that. Too late for that stacking nerf hp increase boosted concord and police factions Yeah I underlined that cause of the irony 2 days till im gone for good again
Ta chaina	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Death Kill Too late for that stacking nerf hp increase boosted concord and police factions MWD nerf warp stab nerf
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Ta chaina Originally by: Death Kill Too late for that stacking nerf hp increase boosted concord and police factions MWD nerf warp stab nerf um... most of the things you listed WERE dumbing down eve, now that they have been nerfed eve isn't as dumbed down anymore. not all but warp stab nerf? good thank god, stupid **** with player having a free ride home. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Richard Aiel Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 30/07/2007 06:25:53 Originally by: Richard Aiel [ As you start bringing in different demographics - such as casual gamers and women - will you adapt the game in any way to accommodate them? We will not dumb it down. We will never do that. Too late for that stacking nerf hp increase boosted concord and police factions Yeah I underlined that cause of the irony I quoted him not you Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Ta chaina warp stab nerf Ahhh Burn Eden/Red alliance alt. Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.

BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:53:00 - [11] Edited by: BubbaZanetti on 30/07/2007 06:53:44 Edited by: BubbaZanetti on 30/07/2007 06:53:28 This interview was awhile ago, but... Originally by: Magnus It's just amazing that such a small group of people - it really is three people - can get a whole alliance up like that and create false allegations, just because they are feeling vindictive. cough bull excrement cough Course, about what you'd expect from a marketing guy. Full on total spin.
The Blinded	Posted - 2007.07.30 06:57:00 - [12] See that part I dont get... I only know one guy.... who are the other two? >> No you cant have my stuff, when I leave Im taking it with me cause im greedy like that >>
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:29:00 - [13] i just choked on my cornflakes ------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance i belong to.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:49:00 - [14] I'm surprised the whole cheating fiasco was even mentioned in the way it was. Was a bit confusing, but if I read it right in the same paragraph he admited developer misconduct (which is public knowledge) and said that people were throwing up false allegations. Was very confusing, can leave the reader thinking either way. CCP should just stop talking about it imo. Players tend to blow it out of proportion and ccp's natural urge to cover it up just feeds the consipiracy theorists. Just let it go and let internal affairs mop up what little is left of the damage. All ccp should mention about this to the outside media is "eve is being run in a fair manner but has a player based economy". Nuff said.
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:31:00 - [15] 170K users haha you mean accounts...at least 1/3 of those are alts. I know some people who have 4 accounts. So stop blowing up how many people play the game. 4 million USD on promotion I have brought at least 10 people to this game who have left due to the slow pace of this game. Here is a little insight on Americans most of us are very impatient, and waiting 6 months to get a feel for a video game will not be attractive to them. So improve the game content rather then spending money on advertising, If some one can run 3 clients at the same time that says something about the interaction of this game.
Steini OFSI Gallente Minigame	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:38:00 - [16] Their goal is naturally to exceed the Icelandic population in subscribers. I'm however afraid that we can't hold 50k concurrent users. Unless.... we go to 0.0
Nero Scuro Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:23:00 - [17] Ew, what's that smell? Oh right, all the crap from that article. --------- EVE is like a box of chocolates. omg nerf chocolates D:
Vistrix Ferocia	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:27:00 - [18] Edited by: Vistrix Ferocia on 30/07/2007 09:29:19 Edited by: Vistrix Ferocia on 30/07/2007 09:28:49 Man... I can see why many mmorpg developers have a love hate relationship with forums. People just talk crap 50% of the time... I thought it was an interesting article. Although I was confused about the money being spent on the "buddy program". The buddy program is just the same as the free trial link publicly available...the only difference is it can be mailed. That needs to be HEAVILY improved, I'd be convinced to invite alot of people if certain things were changed.
Tao Han Caldari Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.07.30 09:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Lastdon 170K users haha you mean accounts...at least 1/3 of those are alts. I know some people who have 4 accounts. So stop blowing up how many people play the game. Why not, that is how every other company improves their numbers.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.07.30 11:24:00 - [20] Quote: and we are lucky that the gameplay is controlled so much by the players and not by us: Big lies re Privateer Nerf SKUNK Originally by: Fink Angel They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.

Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.30 14:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Vistrix Ferocia Edited by: Vistrix Ferocia on 30/07/2007 09:29:19 Edited by: Vistrix Ferocia on 30/07/2007 09:28:49 Man... I can see why many mmorpg developers have a love hate relationship with forums. People just talk crap 50% of the time... really? Originally by: the dude from the article don't shut things down just because we don't like what's being said. We've never done that. Some people think we lock threads because we don't like them: really re-read that article... some of the stuff said in there smacks of irony, and some equates to the 50% of the time that you accuse the forums of. 2 days till im gone for good again
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Lastdon 170K users haha you mean accounts...at least 1/3 of those are alts. I know some people who have 4 accounts. So stop blowing up how many people play the game. 4 million USD on promotion I have brought at least 10 people to this game who have left due to the slow pace of this game. Here is a little insight on Americans most of us are very impatient, and waiting 6 months to get a feel for a video game will not be attractive to them. So improve the game content rather then spending money on advertising, If some one can run 3 clients at the same time that says something about the interaction of this game. Maybe they don't have pandering to impatient Americans as their top design priority. Why fight WoW on it's own turf...? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Nerf Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:47:00 - [23] <3 CCP
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:49:00 - [24] game balancing is hardly dumbing down... your smarter then that they have to balance, whats the fun with geddons isnta killing anything? it was tweaked, it was fixed, now it works as intended saying its just dumbing the game down is incredibly ignorant and stupid, devs explained once and you can read that stuff again and maybe you can see that balance changes are part of a mmo, its standard, ANY mmo that doesnt balance things will die... --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.07.30 15:53:00 - [25] Originally by: MissileRus saying its just dumbing the game down is incredibly ignorant and stupid No its not stupid. Fights lasting longer for a guy to tank long enough for his blob to come rescue him thats dumbing it down. YOu make it sound like everyone flew geddons and everyone died all the time. People flew other ships too you know, and you had the option to tank properly or gank properly....and there used to be more solo piracy. Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: MissileRus saying its just dumbing the game down is incredibly ignorant and stupid No its not stupid. Fights lasting longer for a guy to tank long enough for his blob to come rescue him thats dumbing it down. YOu make it sound like everyone flew geddons and everyone died all the time. People flew other ships too you know, and you had the option to tank properly or gank properly....and there used to be more solo piracy. well that changed, its a mmo afterall.. either it didnt fit with their vision how things should work, or they simply wanted more then just gank or tank. i agree solo stuff have suffed a bit and blobbs rules today, yet im stil soloing(piwate huntah) and refusing to blobb. i stand by my point it is ignorant to call balancing dumbing down the game.. ive played online games for many years, and what SOE did with removing skill with their combat upgrade was absolutely dumbing down the game.. CCP adding stacking penalties is the other way around imo, you now need to fit stuff, you cant fit DPS and isnta pop stuff, you need both dps and tank to survive without friends hugging your back etc. theres alot more tactic today then there used to be, i think that was the Devs reason for "dumbing down" the game.. to let people use tactic, thats the reason for the HP changes, to let people use more tactic etc.. if you dont kill someone before his friends arrives you didnt try hard enough --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.07.30 16:14:00 - [27] CCP 4tw
Edenn	Posted - 2007.07.30 17:00:00 - [28] Edited by: Edenn on 30/07/2007 17:00:56 Originally by: Lastdon 170K users haha you mean accounts...at least 1/3 of those are alts. I know some people who have 4 accounts. So stop blowing up how many people play the game. 4 million USD on promotion I have brought at least 10 people to this game who have left due to the slow pace of this game. Here is a little insight on Americans most of us are very impatient, and waiting 6 months to get a feel for a video game will not be attractive to them. So improve the game content rather then spending money on advertising, If some one can run 3 clients at the same time that says something about the interaction of this game. Very very very x10 true. A LOT of new players don't want to play EVE because they have to wait for too long. Completely agree with you man. P.S. Yeah, I have a lot of friends that have 2+ accounts.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:36:00 - [29] Honestly, I hope they never dumb this game down enough to appeal to the WoW crowd... I dont think this game was intended to have anywhere near that many subscribers on it... As to the numbers playing, you have to figure that with cyno alts, hauler alts, mission alts, pvp alts, ppl in this game have WAY more alts than CCP is thinking they do when they say there are 300000 ppl playing this game. Id say that at least half or even more of that number is alts considering how important alts are in megacorp and 0.0 type life, and figuring in the cyonet(I think theyre called) scams that run. 2 days till im gone for good again
Dilligaf Really	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:10:00 - [30] Originally by: Richard Aiel Honestly, I hope they never dumb this game down enough to appeal to the WoW crowd... I dont think this game was intended to have anywhere near that many subscribers on it... As to the numbers playing, you have to figure that with cyno alts, hauler alts, mission alts, pvp alts, ppl in this game have WAY more alts than CCP is thinking they do when they say there are 300000 ppl playing this game. Id say that at least half or even more of that number is alts considering how important alts are in megacorp and 0.0 type life, and figuring in the cyonet(I think theyre called) scams that run. qft

Amaldor Themodius	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:41:00 - [31] Hey how about this for a suggestion... Spend a dollar or 2 on marketing your products in Australia / New Zealand we play computer games as well.. and u may well pick up 20000 subscribers in a hurry especially if u begin to accept $AUS payments.. I have not EVER seen any marketing or promotion of the game in Australia and im told by the New Zealanders they are the same.. any players from these countries in game are people who have "stumbled" across it.. Second reason why this makes perfect sense to promote is our time zones here do not align with either USA or EURO which means each additional customer will not adversely impact the tin foil and chicken wire holding your current server architecture in place.. (IE read wont contribute to LAG..) Food 4 thought..
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:05:00 - [32] Ive heard theres a lot of aussies already in the game... 2 days till im gone for good again
Gaia Thorn Infestation.	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:17:00 - [33] The duming down of eve is: WTZ The new scan probe system Giving 1 mill sp from start Hp boost Nerf of T2 ammo Just a few exampels from the never ending of sugesstions to "improve" our gameplay. WTZ being one of the biggest dumbing down. Yes i know you are thinking but that they did so that bookmarks could be removed, well here's a newsflash Why not remove all the bookmarks anyways. And just make a field around the gate were you land 15km of unless you warp to a gangmate ? aka warp bubble. And this new thing of promoting less blob warfare, im starting to thinking they spellt it wrong or something cause every thing they have done so far has been to promote blob warfare. 50% boost to HP and reduce the dmg of ammo ??? how on gods green earth is that not gonna promote blob warfare now that you need more people to kill a ship ? WTZ how are we now gonna catch people ? a Big ass gate camp should take care of that with fast locking ships and such . And a spin off from that is another blob comes that is bigger to take the camp out. That brings me to the revamped POS warfare ? guns outside the POS good, cyno inhibitors BAD. What genius came up with theese ideas, how can we make pos warfare even more a hassle and litteraly make the server come to a screetching halt. Now you need to jump in a big fleet to put the inhibtor in a disabled state so you now can flood local with all the capitals to put the pos in reinforced. Like so many before me has suggested why not just remove reinforced mode from the POSes. I know i sidetracked abit but felt i needed to vent some anger.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Gaia Thorn 50% boost to HP and reduce the dmg of ammo ??? how on gods green earth is that not gonna promote blob warfare now that you need more people to kill a ship ? That's the biggest and most frequent misconception regarding blobs, even CCP falls for it. People don't bring more ships because they need to, but because they can! If they don't have enough ships, they don't even engage, so it's blobbing or nothing, with or without the 50% hp boost. You cannot fix blobbing by making stuff easier or harder to kill (both have been claimed). The only ways to fix it are: - give smaller gangs an unfair advantage (yeah, sounds bad) - limit the number of people per system (impossible with the current state of alliance/sovereignty warfare) - add objectives to alliance warfare that require multiple targets in different systems to be hit simultaneously (the only remotely realistic solution, although you have to think of something so that the defender doesn't outblob the hostiles at those targets, one gang at a time) this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
Gaia Thorn Infestation.	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:38:00 - [35] Well it's not a misconception for me atleast, we often have to reconsider engangements due to ship types. see one domi you need some serious firepower to take it out quick before he gets his nos on you. before you could jump in take rip one apart even if he was running nos on it.
Corporal Clue	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:53:00 - [36] So you're spending 7 million dollars to attract more people to a game which frankly is over-crowded to the point that the servers can barely handle regular gameplay, and almost die when players engage in your much vaunted alliance warfare? Surely that 7 million could have been invested into improving the game rather than improving your revenue?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:00:00 - [37] Originally by: Corporal Clue Surely that 7 million could have been invested into improving the game rather than improving your revenue? Nah, most CEOs love short-sighted investments, sadly :-/ ... If it costs 7m to bring in new players (with false promises of fleet battles) faster than they lose the old ones (which they will at a faster rate with more players = more lag), they benefit, for a while. Personally, I'd always invest into making my product better first, but hey, I'm a techie gone CEO, so I guess I'm biased. And Hilmar is probably richer than I am, so he must be right. this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
tikinish	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:39:00 - [38] well realistic speaking there can't be more then 50k actually playing the game, as almost every one have atleast 2 accounts and alot of people have 3-5 accounts, and there are alot of farmers and alot of afk sp'er. at max time there is around 30k people on, which means if you say maybe becouse not every one is playing at the same time, you can really stress it and say okey there is 60k people actually playing the game. rest is alts, isk farmers and afk sp huggers. congratz on useless numbers from the gaming world subcripsion ;)
Frygok Minmatar Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Corporal Clue So you're spending 7 million dollars to attract more people to a game which frankly is over-crowded to the point that the servers can barely handle regular gameplay, and almost die when players engage in your much vaunted alliance warfare? Surely that 7 million could have been invested into improving the game rather than improving your revenue? Absolutely agree! For a company who uses the motto that EVE is their child, they are on the way to make it the bastard child. 300k suscribers? WTF?!? If you want to keep EVE on 1 shard, with 300k subscribers, you better start using some of those cash on hardware, rather than advertisement.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:41:00 - [40] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/08/2007 13:43:46 You think the game got easier just because everybody got a hp increase? Or concord got boosted? Because thats what dumbing down means. Making the game easier and less challenging. I dont see it. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.

Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:22:00 - [41] Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 01/08/2007 15:22:32 Originally by: Frygok Originally by: Corporal Clue So you're spending 7 million dollars to attract more people to a game which frankly is over-crowded to the point that the servers can barely handle regular gameplay, and almost die when players engage in your much vaunted alliance warfare? Surely that 7 million could have been invested into improving the game rather than improving your revenue? Absolutely agree! For a company who uses the motto that EVE is their child, they are on the way to make it the bastard child. 300k suscribers? WTF?!? If you want to keep EVE on 1 shard, with 300k subscribers, you better start using some of those cash on hardware, rather than advertisement. R U Dumb? What's coming this thursday? What's been a near regular source of dev blogs and shard shut downs? Hardware instillation. They're ***** working on it. EVE has it a kind of roadblock since the last recruitment wave. Relax. Spending money for marketing to get more subscribers is a smart thing. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever**


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