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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:51:00 -
[1]
I just wanted a justification on the carrier/dreadnaught.
Carrier: Costs under $1 billion to buy
Takes Capital Ship III and Carrier I, along with fighters requiring some decent skills like Leadership V & Drone Interfacing V.
Is multipurpose, good for hauling and jumping with equipment and loot, good dmg from drones/fighters
takes longer to train than a Dreadnaught.
Dreadnaught: Costs avg $1.6 billion to buy
no real hualing ability
only usefull against Capitalships/POS
only requires capital ships I & Dreadnaught I, Dreadnaught I skill book is 100 million compared to carriers skill book of 450 million.
Only real thing the dread has going for itself is its stronger.
But in all honesty how come a dreadnaught costs more to purchase than a carrier, even though the carrier takes longer to train for and has 10x more functions than a dread.
over 600 million isk in price difference for a ship thats easier to get.
could someone justify this for me ?
seems a bit silly really.. as i thought it would go
Battleship $60 mil - 150 million
Dreadnaught $1.4bil - 1.9 bil
Carrier $850 mil - 1 bill
this also stands for training time BS, Dread, Carrier in that order of training.
just seems a bit messed up to me.
thanks
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Queen Hopy
Your Friendly Booster Company
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Posted - 2007.07.30 21:53:00 -
[2]
umm... check how long it does to train dread weapons. And siege module.
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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:02:00 -
[3]
not including the modules i meant the ship on a basis..
a carrier in primary skills takes longer there for its supposed to be a better ship, so it should cost more ISK to buy.
a dreadnaught doesn't take aslong in primary skills and only has 2 uses in total so should cost less.
it just doesn't add up.
both ships have to use reppers and jump drives etc so mods don't play a part, as training for siege module same as getting fighters or advance drone interfacing to get more drones.
which then takes even longer.
so all in all. the dread doesn't take nearly as long and costs nearly double what a carrier does. its not really justified.
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Kulmid
New Justice
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kulmid on 30/07/2007 22:04:01
 Originally by: Squeakz
no real hualing ability
only usefull against Capitalships/POS
My Moros BBQ's anything within 45km... also if I wanted to I could jump BSs
Also these ships were not implemented into the game together, they were balanced with the game mechanics a the time, and what roles needed to be filled, not entirely just against each other
~~~~~
Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you do something and the time you tell a woman what you did. Originally by: CCP Wrangler
There's no greater honor than winning.
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Asestorian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Asestorian on 30/07/2007 22:06:05
The justification is that Dreads are needed for sieging a POS. Which is what they are designed for.
Carriers are far more designed to be multi-purpose logistics/combat ships.
If you need to siege a POS, then you go and get your dreads together and do it. If you don't, then don't bother getting dreads. Simple as that really.
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MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:08:00 -
[6]
dreads cost more because of more materials needed?
thats what i always thought, weapon hardpoints and the siege mode computer etc
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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.30 22:16:00 -
[7]
but in reality, there are more carrier pilots than dread pilots and a carrier is longer to train and more cost involved in skills.
so i just figured that it should cost more to purchase
the dread barely gets used unless u really want to go hunting some BS's or POS's.
however the carrier with its diversity and fighters can hit and kill almost anything from frigates to dreads.
I never see my alliance use there dreads they use them maybe once every 3 months when they go kill a POS.. other than that they sit in the hangar collecting dust.. and a value of 1.6 billion to purchase it.. compared to a carrier being used for 800 million on a regular day to day basis.
just thought it was a bit stupid paying so much money for a ship that doesn't play a big role or even a medium role on a daily basis.
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Moira Pricecheck
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Posted - 2007.07.30 23:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Moira Pricecheck on 30/07/2007 23:20:48
Just an FYI:
Dreads are better at jump-hauling ever since they nerfed the ability to use assembled containers with carriers.
A cargo-expanded Rev can get upwards of 90k cargo space. Carriers are limited to around 50-60k now (Itty 5 + Viator).
As for price... the amount of skillpoints needed to fly something is no indication as to how much a ship costs.
Interceptors usually run about 15 million isk, but the skillpoints needed to fly them equate to MUCH more than a battleship, which is obviously more expensive.
Recon ships similarly require an equal investment to that of a battleship, and yet require at least 3-4 million more skill points just to sit in.
Ultimately it comes down to the amount of materials required to build these ships. Dreads require more capital components and, as a result, more minerals, to construct. This in turns makes them more expensive than carriers.
Also, a dread IS typically going to see a much larger amount of use over a carrier simply because carriers are more along the lines of "Support" ships, whereas dreads are "combat" ships. I suppose this depends on what your corp does, though. If you gate camp, and are looking toward general security, then yes, a carrier is going to see more use... but if you're looking toward system defense against invasion, or conquest, dreads are your weapon of choice.
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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.31 00:17:00 -
[9]
thanks for info.
but taking out mods or additional rigs etc..
a carrier can haul 80,000 m3 standard in its drone bay no ? along with what ever the cargo is already.
a dread if moros has 500m3 drone bay and 4500m3 cargo space..
so not really an ideal cargo transport unless fitted like it.
i understand the logic of more cost to build a dread but i just figured with most games the more time it takes to get into a ship or vehicle the more likely it is that it would cost more
thanks
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Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.07.31 00:41:00 -
[10]
it is to note that dreads take a lot of time to train,
BS 5
Avd Spaceship command 5
Adv Wep Upgrades 5
racial guns 5
cap reps which require several skills to 5
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Hadean Drive Yards
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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.31 00:42:00 -
[11]
to actually fly the ship it doesn't require cap reppers
not including mods here just the actual primary skills to fly it !
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ElCholo
Minmatar
FarCry Inc
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 00:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Squeakz
I just wanted a justification on the carrier/dreadnaught.
Carrier: Costs under $1 billion to buy
Takes Capital Ship III and Carrier I, along with fighters requiring some decent skills like Leadership V & Drone Interfacing V.
Is multipurpose, good for hauling and jumping with equipment and loot, good dmg from drones/fighters
takes longer to train than a Dreadnaught.
Dreadnaught: Costs avg $1.6 billion to buy
no real hualing ability
only usefull against Capitalships/POS
only requires capital ships I & Dreadnaught I, Dreadnaught I skill book is 100 million compared to carriers skill book of 450 million.
Only real thing the dread has going for itself is its stronger.
But in all honesty how come a dreadnaught costs more to purchase than a carrier, even though the carrier takes longer to train for and has 10x more functions than a dread.
over 600 million isk in price difference for a ship thats easier to get.
could someone justify this for me ?
seems a bit silly really.. as i thought it would go
Battleship $60 mil - 150 million
Dreadnaught $1.4bil - 1.9 bil
Carrier $850 mil - 1 bill
this also stands for training time BS, Dread, Carrier in that order of training.
just seems a bit messed up to me.
thanks
Carrier costs quite a bit more than 1Bil after you add the fighters.
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Nobuo213
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Posted - 2007.07.31 01:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Squeakz
to actually fly the ship it doesn't require cap reppers
not including mods here just the actual primary skills to fly it !
No point in flying it if you'll just go pop.
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Squeakz
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Posted - 2007.07.31 01:51:00 -
[14]
what im saying is the base price for the ships without mods doesn't seem right..
take away the mods here just the base price as buying the ship straight from the market etc...
the carrier takes longer to learn and is more versatile and can do alot more.
the dread doesn't take aslong in regards to standard skills like Battleship V, ASC V and only serves as 2 purposes capital ship popping or pos killing and pos killing doesn't really happen on a regular basis nor does finding alot of cap ships to kill just flying around.
u can't even rat in a dreadnaught very well, guns can't hit much.
80,000m3 drone bay for carriers meaning good hauler without mods.
4500m3 for dreadnaught = not good hauler so not much to do with it really.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.31 02:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Squeakz
what im saying is the base price for the ships without mods doesn't seem right..
take away the mods here just the base price as buying the ship straight from the market etc...
the carrier takes longer to learn and is more versatile and can do alot more.
the dread doesn't take aslong in regards to standard skills like Battleship V, ASC V and only serves as 2 purposes capital ship popping or pos killing and pos killing doesn't really happen on a regular basis nor does finding alot of cap ships to kill just flying around.
u can't even rat in a dreadnaught very well, guns can't hit much.
80,000m3 drone bay for carriers meaning good hauler without mods.
4500m3 for dreadnaught = not good hauler so not much to do with it really.
First off, drone bay can only carry drones so that point is moot unless you are carying compressed minerals in drone form. A cargo expanded dread also (usually) ends up with more hauling space than a Carrier.
Secondly, when you add the cost of ship, skills and fittings, the Carrier and Dread cost just about the same amount of ISK.
Last but not least, since when did price dictate usefulness and versitility? For instance take Gallente Battleships: The Dominix, one of the most useful, versatile and popular Battlehships - pricetag 60 Million ISK. Look at the Interdictor, a key piece of todays 0.0 fleet warfare, making the differece between a bad guy in a pod and a bad guy warping away intact. Pricetag - 20 Million ISK. Price is not a direct representation of usefullness.
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