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Station huggers, logon traps and etc

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Ballistic CEO The Ballistic Corporation	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:58:00 - [1] Recently been engaged in a war. War is what it is but it reminded me, AGAIN, of two things that really grind my gears and I believe could be fixed with relative ease. (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. (2) logon traps. How to win a fight: get 20 people onto vent, log 19 of them off in a system then leave 1 on the gate. 1 on the gate shouts on agro the rest log in. This proves conclusively that one of the best ways to win at Eve is not to play it maybe a 60 second non-agro timer? you can warp/mwd etc but no pew pew for a minute after you log in. any thoughts?
War Games Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Ballistic CEO Recently been engaged in a war. War is what it is but it reminded me, AGAIN, of two things that really grind my gears and I believe could be fixed with relative ease. (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. (2) logon traps. How to win a fight: get 20 people onto vent, log 19 of them off in a system then leave 1 on the gate. 1 on the gate shouts on agro the rest log in. This proves conclusively that one of the best ways to win at Eve is not to play it maybe a 60 second non-agro timer? you can warp/mwd etc but no pew pew for a minute after you log in. any thoughts? 1) Docking points would suck. I do however support a 5 minute dock/redock (with the agrotimer still running out at 60 seconds) The only way to eliminate that dock/undock would be to warp to a new grid (this would prevent someone from getting around the timers by simply initiating a warp and then redocking... ie they have to arrive at the place they warped to) 2) I again support a 5 minute non-agro timer, as long as a gate camp couldn't attack you as well. However, You shouldn't be allowed to session change (IE DOCK/JUMP through a gate) till you have wasted your 5 minutes of agro status. This gives the hunters a chance to go after you, and you a chance to survive should you "crash." The weak or unguarded will not last as they are ganked now... and the guarded will not be ganked while they are returning from a crash of a node or client. What Gaming Dev's really think of you!
Callthetruth Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:11:00 - [3] if u nerf the station dockign ability they will just use NPC alts to scout etc, so really u gotta catch youre targets off guard, gates, belts stuff like that
Elipsis Gallente The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:48:00 - [4] Why is a logon trap any more affective than just having the gang warp in? I guess if someone was scanning... but if a guy / group is coming through the gate they haven't scanned it yet... -... CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.30 23:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Elipsis Why is a logon trap any more affective than just having the gang warp in? I guess if someone was scanning... but if a guy / group is coming through the gate they haven't scanned it yet... alt scouts. -- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Ballistic CEO Recently been engaged in a war. War is what it is but it reminded me, AGAIN, of two things that really grind my gears and I believe could be fixed with relative ease. (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. So station hugging is a bad thing, but station camping is a good thing? From the same logic any ship undocking would be protecte by the station shield, have the time of looking around while protected, and decide what to do while the attacker wait for the target to exit the station shield. Even more, the station should have a system to look out and see if someone is waithing.
codex09 Minmatar Entropy Systems Mining Co.	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:25:00 - [7] Why have a 5 minute wait? I think the current setup is ok and really whether it is 1 second, 30 seconds 5 minutes or 25 minutes do you think anything is really going to change? Also why should the majority suffer because a minority can't handle the way things play out in the game? About the station huggers, there will always be something that someone in a game does not like whether it is Station Huggers, Gankers Blob attacks the list goes on. So what people need to do is learn to adapt to situations.(eg. If you are trying to get someone that just keeps on docking undocking etc etc try a different approach.)If you are spending more than lets say 30 minutes playing the waiting game for a person that keeps doing this docking/undocking thing then I would guess you have not got much to do in the game. Let him/her go and you will run into this person again sooner or later away from a station where you can get him/her. I think an idea I read about in another thread was a good one for this sort of problem (can't dock if webbed). I know there have been a lot of other ideas and maybe some of thm would work well but I personally don't think that making changes to the amount of time will do much other than cause more problems in other ways. As for the logon traps what difference does it make if the people are ingame waiting or just in the selection menu waiting? Other than the fact that you have a small chance of maybe getting away if they are in the selection menu. I personally would rather have a gate camped with 1 person and 19 others outside in the selection menu than a gate camped by 20 people actually sitting there to try and run through, it's just a matter of odds.. Look in reality this game will NEVER be a perfect game for 100% of the player base and thats just the way it is, because no matter what CCP does it will just NEVER be enough. Humans just don't all like the same things and thats is what makes humans so different from other animals on this planet. Anyway try doing things in a different way if they aren't working the way you are currently trying to get them to work, and maybe accept that some people will always station hug no matter what the amount of time is to dock and undock and as for the gate camps maybe try using the tactics others use toi your advantage In The Beginning Man Lived Just Like The Animals & For Some Nothing Has Changed!?!
Streetrip FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 03:06:00 - [8] log-on traps are a problem. It's not a matter of adapting to gameplay, its a meta-gaming problem. In-game it turns out to be effective because say 3 BCs or BS jump in and see a cruiser or 2 or a few tacklers and a dictor, then they would tackle down the larger ships. Larger ships think "who are they freaking kidding...we have superiority in this engagement, there is no one in local and behind us. That gives us about a 30 second safety time to get out should things get hairy. All of a sudden BOOM, local shoots up, the BCs/BS have already commited and the tacklers receive support in about 5-10 seconds...those BCs/BS are screwed because the scenario has all of a sudden flipped on them from a situation that really shouldn't be possible with in-game mechanics. If local was higher. They wouldn't engage. If there was no log-in, that scenario would've played out differently.
Isan Danderoda Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.07.31 03:38:00 - [9] Having fought several battles at stations in exactly these circumstances I can understand where you're coming from, but there's one thing I really don't like about your plan. I do all manner of missions (actually, I do just about everything high and low sec have to offer beyond piracy (want to keep that sec status up!)), and every once in a while I have a courier mission where I undock only to realize I totally forgot to load my cargo. So I dock, get my cargo, and undock again. So you're saying I should have to wait five minutes because of that? How about someone who wants to repair his hull (or armor if he usually doesn't fit a repper)? Penalize him too?
Nalar Marnith Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated	Posted - 2007.07.31 03:56:00 - [10] What if I get a ctd in the middle of a mission. I auto warp back in and get wtfbbq'd by the npc as I can't return fire? I'm not saying the things you have indicated aren't problems, just that your ideas aren't the solution.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:10:00 - [11] Here's an eleqoent solution to both station camping and station hugging: No pew-pew is allowed within 25km of any station anywhere. Both problems cease to exist.
Bane Loppknow	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:24:00 - [12] not really, you end up with the same thing. the campers sit just outside the anti-pew range and the huggers sit just inside it, gathering intel for their buddies.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Ballistic CEO Recently been engaged in a war. War is what it is but it reminded me, AGAIN, of two things that really grind my gears and I believe could be fixed with relative ease. (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. (2) logon traps. How to win a fight: get 20 people onto vent, log 19 of them off in a system then leave 1 on the gate. 1 on the gate shouts on agro the rest log in. This proves conclusively that one of the best ways to win at Eve is not to play it maybe a 60 second non-agro timer? you can warp/mwd etc but no pew pew for a minute after you log in. any thoughts? Ya I have thoughts. You need to learn to play the game. Get someone to watch local and stop messing around with idiotic dock wars on stations that don't throw you out of dock wars. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.31 04:39:00 - [14] It's so easy to fix the station camping issues: when you undock, you are pushed 15km away from the station. Every time. Problem solved. No more undock/redock. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Barasu Minmatar The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 05:13:00 - [15] You know what really grinds my gears? Nobody has come up with a new priest and rabi joke in 30 years.
Xiaodown Lyran Procurement	Posted - 2007.07.31 05:52:00 - [16] Originally by: Isan Danderoda Having fought several battles at stations in exactly these circumstances I can understand where you're coming from, but there's one thing I really don't like about your plan. I do all manner of missions (actually, I do just about everything high and low sec have to offer beyond piracy (want to keep that sec status up!)), and every once in a while I have a courier mission where I undock only to realize I totally forgot to load my cargo. So I dock, get my cargo, and undock again. So you're saying I should have to wait five minutes because of that? How about someone who wants to repair his hull (or armor if he usually doesn't fit a repper)? Penalize him too? This shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of the OP's station hugging nerfing idea, but your fears are unfounded in your case. High sec carebears who need to redock wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes - simply warp off grid, and then warp back in to the station in dock. It might add 45 seconds, but it won't add 5 minutes. However, I've long been a supporter of a cool down timer after logging in IN SPACE before you engage your weapons. Log in while in station, no problem, but if you log in while you're in space, you've got at least a 60 second timer before you can engage any modules. It eliminates login traps for the most part. I just hate anything outside of the game its self (and teamspeak or ventrillo) having a direct influence on the outcome of a fight. ~X -- Lyran procurement is offering tritanium compression services for 0.0 alliances. Low prices, 25:1 compression. Click for Details...
largewhereitcounts	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:39:00 - [17] ___ I can not support this idea.
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 31/07/2007 23:45:38 Ok, for docking stuff, how about this: Let combat continue into station. With Walking in stations coming this should be relatively easy to implement. If you don't pay for some guards at your docking bay, the best you can do is run and hide. If you do try to assasinate someone in station or sabotage their gear, you'd better have good standings with whoever owns the station. Perhaps each station could have a general corruption factor that decides if you are more or less likely to get away with whatever crime you comitt in station (like sec status for out in space). you could build up relations with NPC's in stations that makes you more likely to get away with stuff as well, so creates a home station advantage Edit: this deserves a separate post IMO Khaldari KPA are recruiting In-game channel: khanidpublic
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Ballistic CEO Recently been engaged in a war. War is what it is but it reminded me, AGAIN, of two things that really grind my gears and I believe could be fixed with relative ease. (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. (2) logon traps. How to win a fight: get 20 people onto vent, log 19 of them off in a system then leave 1 on the gate. 1 on the gate shouts on agro the rest log in. This proves conclusively that one of the best ways to win at Eve is not to play it maybe a 60 second non-agro timer? you can warp/mwd etc but no pew pew for a minute after you log in. any thoughts? In 6 months of hundred of empire wars only had a log on done on me twice Its incredibly lame The guys who did it were bleating on about "its not cheating - its tactics and teamwork" lol SKUNK Originally by: Fink Angel They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Ballistic CEO (1) Station huggers. nuff said. I would think in space something like a station would have some sort of field around it to keep it nice and cosy and a dock point/s you had to fly to to get into it. Srsly it has to beat dock/undock/dock/undock/dock all evening. Station huggers don't really want to play the game when it gets rough. They just want a nice cosy 20v1 in their favour before they even consider PVP. A 1v1 doesn't even come into the equation. Quote: (2) logon traps. How to win a fight: get 20 people onto vent, log 19 of them off in a system then leave 1 on the gate. 1 on the gate shouts on agro the rest log in. This proves conclusively that one of the best ways to win at Eve is not to play it maybe a 60 second non-agro timer? you can warp/mwd etc but no pew pew for a minute after you log in. any thoughts? Oh how great it would be to just switch off life and have someone wake you up when you're needed. That's effectively what they are doing. If they warped in, at least you'd have a warning in local of their size as soon as you or they enter the system. I support a timer for login that stops players using it as a trap. No aggro or even targetting for at least 5 minutes after logging in. Also, no capability to deploy a cyno field for at least 5 minutes. Login traps are a lame use of game mechanics that should never have been allowed from the start. --
Schwigg Station Huggers Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:00:00 - [21] Hey, what's wrong with Station Huggers? Founder, CEO of Station Huggers, Inc.
Lady Weaksauce Brotherhood of Polar Equation Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:14:00 - [22] station hugging isnt very much fun but there is a solution called jump clone
Caligulus Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:22:00 - [23] Randomize Dock/Undock points on a station. The physical size of the station means that you're going to be 100km away from your opponent (possibly) when you undock. It gives you a chance to get away and also dissuades station camping except in large groups and at that point...you're screwed anyways. Further more it would stop the horrible congestion at trade hubs and other major alliance outposts since there wont be so many damn object collisions while undocking.
Ed Anger	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:36:00 - [24] windows ftw.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Drizit Station huggers don't really want to play the game when it gets rough. They just want a nice cosy 20v1 in their favour before they even consider PVP. A 1v1 doesn't even come into the equation. Um...that would be 99.99999999% of the people in the universe who pew-pew. Afraid of 1v1s. There are hardly ANY people out there who will 1v1. Trust me. I offer billions of ISK for 1v1s and they still don't show up. It isn't station hugging that's the problem, its the mentality of combat. And um...if the people station camping were there 1v1, I bet most of the station dockers would undock and fight them. But why undock to face 20v1 against you? C'mon, use a little sense.

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