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Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:49:00 - [1] Quote: Malediction (Interceptor) * Hardpoints: 3 launchers (+1), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 135tf (+10tf), 35mw (no change) * Sensors: 925mm scan res (+25mm), 18,500m max targeting range (-4,000m) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per FF level * 5% bonus to armor resistances per FF level * 5% reduction of signature radius per Interceptor level (no change) * 5% bonus to missile EM damage per Interceptor level (no change) Lacks the range of the Crow, but has a bonus to armor resistances, a better capacitor and better speed. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. Vengeance (Assault Ship) * Hardpoints: 4 launchers (+2), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 160tf (+10tf), 43mw (-5mw) * Sensors: 655mm scan res (+55mm), 38,000m max targeting range (-7,000m) * Propulsion: 235m/s (+5m/s), 2,000,000kg (-75,000kg) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per Amarr FF level * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per AS level (no change) Lacks the range of the Hawk, but is faster and tanks better due to its slot layout and bonuses. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. One i have to say MK2 really sucks for most amarr pilos but these two ships are rediculous. Why does the maeladiction have its bonus split over 2 different types of missiles? One EM missiles on a Frig and two if i use missiles i onyl get 3 bonuses but if i use rockets i still only get 3. This thing is a terrible Crow. Change the bonuses to 5% Thermal Missile; Damage and 5% Launcher Rof. It sucks that the Vengeance is now a rocket boat with the Retribution being useless in PvP. I wouldve liked to have seen the changes implemented on the retribution over the vengeance. Also wish they would make it so it gets a bonus to damage of light missiles and rockets, not jsut rockets. _________________________________________
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:54:00 - [2] I'm going to hold off commenting on the Malediction until I get a chance to fly one, but even though the bonuses look a bit weak and I'd rather see it use light missiles than rockets, it still seems like it could be fun. I totally agree with you about the Veng/Retrib though. Retribution with it's 1 mid slot is just a worthless ship to own imo, and I don't see on paper how well the Veng is going to hold us as a kestrel. Though, again, I haven't flown it yet, so I'm not sure. Just doesn't seem too promising. I'd much rather fly my wolf/jag anyway. --
Borasao	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:59:00 - [3] Quote: It sucks that the Vengeance is now a rocket boat with the Retribution being useless in PvP. The Retribution is only limited in solo PvP. In small gangs it is a decent damage dealer. Also, I've seen others mention that even in solo PvP it is sometimes viable by putting a warp scrambler on it. You can tackle anything slower than you fairly easily (mining ships, haulers, etc.)
DayVV4lkEr Liga Freier Terraner Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Vizranuh Edited by: Vizranuh on 31/07/2007 17:55:17 I'm going to hold off commenting on the Malediction until I get a chance to fly one, but even though the bonuses look a bit weak and I'd rather see it use light missiles than rockets, it still seems like it could be fun. I totally agree with you about the Veng/Retrib though. Retribution with it's 1 mid slot is just a worthless ship to own imo, and I don't see on paper how well the Veng is going to hold up as a kestrel. Though, again, I haven't flown it yet, so I'm not sure. Just doesn't seem too promising. I'd much rather fly my wolf/jag anyway. I was told that the Venge can easiely keep a Dual Rep Setup running so it should hold up a kestrel. and about the rocket/standard missile thing i don't think it will stay this way as i don#t think that one of the ships will get a damage bonus to all kind of missiles (em/therm/kin/exp) because they denied it for caldari almost 2 years long.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:15:00 - [5] Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Originally by: Vizranuh Edited by: Vizranuh on 31/07/2007 17:55:17 I'm going to hold off commenting on the Malediction until I get a chance to fly one, but even though the bonuses look a bit weak and I'd rather see it use light missiles than rockets, it still seems like it could be fun. I totally agree with you about the Veng/Retrib though. Retribution with it's 1 mid slot is just a worthless ship to own imo, and I don't see on paper how well the Veng is going to hold up as a kestrel. Though, again, I haven't flown it yet, so I'm not sure. Just doesn't seem too promising. I'd much rather fly my wolf/jag anyway. I was told that the Venge can easiely keep a Dual Rep Setup running so it should hold up a kestrel. and about the rocket/standard missile thing i don't think it will stay this way as i don#t think that one of the ships will get a damage bonus to all kind of missiles (em/therm/kin/exp) because they denied it for caldari almost 2 years long. Yeah i know, my alt is a crow pilot. I want them to change it from EM to Thermal. IF they are going to make these MK2 changes they had at least better do amarr some justice with the changes. _________________________________________
Hinty	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:15:00 - [6] think you'll find that the EM missile bonus includes Rockets.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Hinty think you'll find that the EM missile bonus includes Rockets. Theres 2 bonus' One says Rockets only and the other says EM missiles I said i would like to see EM -----> Thermal And Rockets ----> All missiles. Even then it still not as good as the Crow. _________________________________________
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Zaethiel Quote: Malediction (Interceptor) * Hardpoints: 3 launchers (+1), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 135tf (+10tf), 35mw (no change) * Sensors: 925mm scan res (+25mm), 18,500m max targeting range (-4,000m) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per FF level * 5% bonus to armor resistances per FF level * 5% reduction of signature radius per Interceptor level (no change) * 5% bonus to missile EM damage per Interceptor level (no change) Lacks the range of the Crow, but has a bonus to armor resistances, a better capacitor and better speed. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. Vengeance (Assault Ship) * Hardpoints: 4 launchers (+2), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 160tf (+10tf), 43mw (-5mw) * Sensors: 655mm scan res (+55mm), 38,000m max targeting range (-7,000m) * Propulsion: 235m/s (+5m/s), 2,000,000kg (-75,000kg) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per Amarr FF level * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per AS level (no change) Lacks the range of the Hawk, but is faster and tanks better due to its slot layout and bonuses. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. One i have to say MK2 really sucks for most amarr pilos but these two ships are rediculous. Why does the maeladiction have its bonus split over 2 different types of missiles? One EM missiles on a Frig and two if i use missiles i onyl get 3 bonuses but if i use rockets i still only get 3. This thing is a terrible Crow. Change the bonuses to 5% Thermal Missile; Damage and 5% Launcher Rof. It sucks that the Vengeance is now a rocket boat with the Retribution being useless in PvP. I wouldve liked to have seen the changes implemented on the retribution over the vengeance. Also wish they would make it so it gets a bonus to damage of light missiles and rockets, not jsut rockets. You get a double damage bonus and you're still whining? I use EM all the time as it's usually as low or lower than the explosive resist on the player's ships that I kill. People like you make me sick. Have to use rockets for some extra dps? Buhu. I can't wait to fly a new Vengeance on TQ. They look really fun. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:43:00 - [9] In this thread I came to the completely opposite conclusions. I am not going to cross-post my discussion, but you may find it an interesting read. Logoffs
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:47:00 - [10] all the khanid ship changes suck for the 95% of amarr pilots that can't use missiles. they need a new set of skills, Khanid frigate, khanid cruiser, khanid BS etc, so they can stop pretending these things are amarr anymore
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Zaethiel Originally by: Hinty think you'll find that the EM missile bonus includes Rockets. Theres 2 bonus' One says Rockets only and the other says EM missiles I said i would like to see EM -----> Thermal And Rockets ----> All missiles. Even then it still not as good as the Crow. The EM missle dammage bonus INCLUDES GREMLIN ROCKETS. You recieve 25% to all rockets regardless of type. and an additional 25% to gremlins if you choose to use them. This means you do the same base dps as a crow if he uses kinetic and you use em. If you both use say 'explosive' you in fact do 25% more base dps than him. Now to eat your corn.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:49:00 - [12] I think you will find most Amarr pilots cross-trained around a year ago. And if people can't at least get frigate weapon skills up in another tech, that's their choice. Logoffs
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:49:00 - [13] Being Minmatar, The changes to the Malediction suit me just fine. Its a funny thing... a Slave being more competent at flying your own ships. As for the discussion at hand, I would have preferred some kind of range bonus to rockets, forget missiles altogether. But atleast the way it is now gives you more options. And I don't think the EM missile bonus works on Rockets. Easy way to tell... Load up some foxfires and gremlins and shoot something with 0 resists. At anyrate, the changes are great. More launchers that don't eat cap... so its easier to keep that web/scram/SAR running. Launchers that don't require tracking... so you can speed tank up close and personal and still do damage. Better armor resists, nuff said. It will take a competent pilot all of 4 days to train from rockets level 1 to rockets level 4. Its not like this is the end of the world for Amarr. Infact, these changes made the best "Tackle" interceptor even better. You want to kill Crows, use the Crusader.
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:35:00 - [14] well the problem is there is almost no way to fit these ships to get them out of web range and still use the bonuses, im thinking ether a frigate gang damage dealer or some sort of ECM boat so it can avoid being locked and webbed. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:37:00 - [15] The EM bonus applies to all missles, including rockets, at least I believe that is how its been in the past. ROF bonuses never go on frigs because of lag so I think that's a no go. What playing Amarr feels like.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:02:00 - [16] erm.... you're not ment to avoid being webbed stupid resists says so large cap to run your rep says so... ok something that's bugging me * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level so what resistance boost do you get to explosive in total once you get as level 5? do you get the 100% that i counted on my fingers the same way surgical strike and weapon spec of some kind works (2%+4% = 6%) what am i missing :( they can't really give us a 100% resist to explosive and kinetic damage can they?
me bored	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:27:00 - [17] The em bonus effects rockets and both ships are 10x better than they were pre mk. II. Next time l2p before posting.
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Zaethiel Originally by: Hinty think you'll find that the EM missile bonus includes Rockets. Theres 2 bonus' One says Rockets only and the other says EM missiles Cause one is specific to rockets and the other is for all missiles (which includes rockets). ------------------
me bored	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:38:00 - [19] Edited by: me bored on 31/07/2007 22:38:28 Originally by: Gawain Hill erm.... you're not ment to avoid being webbed stupid resists says so large cap to run your rep says so... ok something that's bugging me * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level so what resistance boost do you get to explosive in total once you get as level 5? do you get the 100% that i counted on my fingers the same way surgical strike and weapon spec of some kind works (2%+4% = 6%) what am i missing :( they can't really give us a 100% resist to explosive and kinetic damage can they? Stacking doesn't work like that. Instead of adding directly onto your current resists extra hardening adds it's percentage to the unhardened amount. For instance if you have a 70% resist and use a +50% hardener you don't get 120% resist you get 85%. (50% of the unhardened 30% = 15%) Hope that makes sense to you. I'm bad at explaining things.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:47:00 - [20] Originally by: me bored Edited by: me bored on 31/07/2007 22:38:28 Originally by: Gawain Hill erm.... you're not ment to avoid being webbed stupid resists says so large cap to run your rep says so... ok something that's bugging me * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level so what resistance boost do you get to explosive in total once you get as level 5? do you get the 100% that i counted on my fingers the same way surgical strike and weapon spec of some kind works (2%+4% = 6%) what am i missing :( they can't really give us a 100% resist to explosive and kinetic damage can they? Stacking doesn't work like that. Instead of adding directly onto your current resists extra hardening adds it's percentage to the unhardened amount. For instance if you have a 70% resist and use a +50% hardener you don't get 120% resist you get 85%. (50% of the unhardened 30% = 15%) Hope that makes sense to you. I'm bad at explaining things. ok but it's agreed a 5% damage bonus to rockets and a 5% damage bonus to em missiles gets em rockets a 10% damage bonus though right? and not a 5% then another 5% afterward wouldn't the resist bonus work in the same way?
Robstr Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Robstr on 31/07/2007 22:52:49 EM Missiles = Rockets and lights (or even torps, if you could fit them) so you get %25 + %5per level if you use EM rockets 25% if you use other rockets and %5X if you use EM lights. I think it's fine. I've been a long time malediction pilot and while I'll miss my old setups, I look forward to this. It really won't be any worse. ====
Elles D Caldari angels of darkness LTD Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:53:00 - [22] Noob question, what does 'ff' stand for in the level bonuses? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Elles D Noob question, what does 'ff' stand for in the level bonuses? FF: Frigate DD: Destroyer ect
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Zaethiel Change the bonuses to 5% Launcher Rof,; and 5% Thermal Missile Damage. That's a Gallente damage bonus. Quote: I wouldve liked to have seen the changes implemented on the retribution over the vengeance. Why would they change a Carthum ship for Khanid MkII? -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:14:00 - [25] Originally by: Robstr It really won't be any worse. It's a far sight better than "won't be any worse", I can't wait Seems like everyone posting whine threads completely misunderstands the bonuses or hasn't done any math and is just afraid of change.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:26:00 - [26] ok i got it now :) that's some crazy ass resists why on earth would anyone speed tank a malediction? the only ships you worry about are laser boats... and at short range running a nice big tank it's not like they'll hurt you all that much anyway
Talos Darkhart	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:26:00 - [27] Vengance can go 1600m/s has roughly straight 85% resists across the board and a t2 repper and still has room for a t2 warp disruptor and t2 rocket launchers. Not going to give the setup if ppl are that lazy and too busy moaning but what you have in the vengance is a pretty decent heavy tackler with good dmg.
James Grand Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Gawain Hill Edited by: Gawain Hill on 31/07/2007 22:56:40 Originally by: me bored Edited by: me bored on 31/07/2007 22:38:28 Originally by: Gawain Hill erm.... you're not ment to avoid being webbed stupid resists says so large cap to run your rep says so... ok something that's bugging me * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level so what resistance boost do you get to explosive in total once you get as level 5? do you get the 100% that i counted on my fingers the same way surgical strike and weapon spec of some kind works (2%+4% = 6%) what am i missing :( they can't really give us a 100% resist to explosive and kinetic damage can they? Stacking doesn't work like that. Instead of adding directly onto your current resists extra hardening adds it's percentage to the unhardened amount. For instance if you have a 70% resist and use a +50% hardener you don't get 120% resist you get 85%. (50% of the unhardened 30% = 15%) Hope that makes sense to you. I'm bad at explaining things. ok but it's agreed a 25% damage bonus to rockets for frig level 5 and a 5% damage bonus to em missiles per assault frig level (so 30% 35% and so on) (for the malediction that is) so why wouldn't the resist bonus no the vengance work in the same way? The damage bonuses are multiplicative, not additive. So it is actually 1.25 * (1 + 0.05level). This actually means you get a 52.5% increase at level 5, rather than just 50%. The resist bonuses are applied differently because of the way resistances are calculated. They are applied as a % of your existing unresisted amount. So, if you have 10% Explosive armor resist and you apply a 50% hardener, your hardener will add .9 50% or 45% for a total of 55% (10% + 45%). However, if you have 60% EM armor resist and you apply a 50% hardener your hardener will only add .4 * 50% or 20% for a total of 80% (60% + 20%). -------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed in my posts are entirely my own.

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