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Axelay
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Posted - 2003.06.08 00:41:00 -
[1]
1. We asked for the GM's to give us a system outside of empire space so that we could defend it and mine the resources surrounding and have fun fighting off the bounty hunters.
2. They could have issues a notice about the situation in mara and stated that 'more police are being dispatched to assist' and raised the sec rating to .5 (npc police would show up then and things would have been quite difficult for us.).
3. They could have held an event for all of the players out there who wanted to help hunt us, "Concord has called out for all willing volunteers to clean up the new pirate presence in Mara".
4. They could have hit us with the nerf-bat (again).
5. They could have come in reasonably similarly equipped ships and similar skills and flushed us.
6. They could have message us and asked us to leave. (We spoke to a GM about what we were doing and he said he liked to see an actual pirate corp taking over. When questioned about wether or not what we were doing was discouraged he replied, "Quite the opposite")
7. They could send GMs in uber ships to insta-kill us (and podkill)
While they have so far only actually destroyed 1 of our ships (a scout we sent out to see what 'the four' was going to be) The fact that they have chosen option #7 on my list is quite disturbing.
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m0o
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.06.08 01:16:00 -
[2]
CCP, understands that you guys are not idiots. They know you wouldn't risk ships fighting the four headsmen. They, as well as the rest of us, know that they will force you out into 0.0 security space, where the type of mayhem your corp is causing belongs.
I hope this happens to.
BUT, I understand why it might be frustrating for you guys. There is virtually nothing in 0.0 security space worth your corp's time, save for the weapons you're using now. And now that you have them, what's the fun of continuously using them on NPC pirates when there are a bunch of helpless PC miners and traders for you to play cat and mouse with!
Normal players do not dare to go out into 0.0 security areas simply because the NPC pirates are too tough for them. Small corps such as mine do go out there for pirate killing, rare mineral mining and such and are clearing the way for the rest.
The devs haven't gave you guys anything to do yet, the pirates in 0.0 sec space aren't even a challenge for you anymore, so this is the only place you can go to have some fun.
I agree with the 7 options the last posted listed, and would have preferred any one of them except the one they chose.
I am on your corp's side in this matter, and encourage CCP to take measures to expand the amount of content in this game and to lessen most of the time sinks enforced on players. Yes, the penalty for death is too harsh and the amount of work required to have fun in this game is too much for most people.
Increase the availabilty of the typical ISK and you will see your corp wars, your player pirate hunting, and much much more.
-E
Edited by: Endureth on 08/06/2003 01:19:53
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.06.08 01:27:00 -
[3]
Hi,
you are instant killing in your uber ships all the time. You are better equiped, better skilled, better coordinated.
You deserved the same response.
Asking for similar forces is little childish. No military force would send a force that could be defeated just for the fun if they can send stronger forces easily.
Bye...
Edited by: Molly on 08/06/2003 01:36:06
Edited by: Molly on 08/06/2003 01:36:19
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
klaartu
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Posted - 2003.06.08 01:39:00 -
[4]
1. Why should CCP give you a system? You need to earn it.
2. # 2 sounds like a viable option. Although, no warning should be given to you since you do not warn your targets. You just pod them right after getting out of stargate.
3. Now option 3 sounds the best. After all, it is PVP.
4. No nerfing
5. Why do the CCP need similar ships and skills to fire on m0o when m0o has superior ships to the nebs it kills.
6. No need to message. Does m0o message it's prey before killing them?
7. Yes, option 7 is disturbing. But, That is what you do to the newbs.
Out of all three options, #3 sounds the best. I don't think otpion 7 will happen again. It was just a warning.
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Miyamoto
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Posted - 2003.06.08 01:59:00 -
[5]
Axelay, just live with it.
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jus2awesome
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Posted - 2003.06.08 03:16:00 -
[6]
7. They could send GMs in uber ships to insta-kill us (and podkill)
That's bs and a very bad move on the GM's part . I was always under the impression if a person was in lower sec space they could be attacked.
Anyway Cpp..I dont pirate myself but I think Mo0 was done very dirty.
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Yatar Kindoki
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Posted - 2003.06.08 03:35:00 -
[7]
Well, I have to agree option 7 isn't the best one, it's a bit drastic. But at the other hand, this is just a one time thing, just to get you out of there before they're putting in all those new sentry guns soon (tm). I really think this whole GM thing has gotten a bit blown up, by all of us.
It's still a new game, we all need to learn how to deal best with situations like this. I'm sure if something like this ever arises again, it will be dealt with differently.
All we really need to do is to stay constructive and guide CPP a little on how to make life in EVE fun for both Pirates and 'normal' players, instead of screaming out how offended we are about this and how poor this decision (to send GM's after m00) was and allowing it to turn into some kind of big fat flamewar like in most other topics i've seen :)
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Hawk Anasazi
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Posted - 2003.06.08 04:21:00 -
[8]
umm lets see what do you keep telling thje nobs that you pod kill ??
"To bad so sad stay in high sec space" ? is that about it ?
well To bad so sad stay in low sec space.
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Bajan Bharat
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Posted - 2003.06.08 05:24:00 -
[9]
Ummm...did I miss something? CCP DID publically announce what they were doing. No surprise there. Which is more than can be said for what you kiddies do. So you got pushed around by devs flying battleships...deal with it, and quit your whining. How many of you cow-fetish kiddies are going to start whining, moaning, complaining about what happened today? Don't get your panties in a knot when the freshly podded newbies come here to blast you. You all are doing the same thing right now.
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Fearchar Fada
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Posted - 2003.06.08 05:51:00 -
[10]
Ok, let's comapare this to real life, what if the Yakuza were to set themselves up in New York or whatever, and kill anyone coming into the city, do you think the US governement would just sit back and allow that to happen? No, they would not. Don't go thinking you can block systems for days and not have the empire swat you like a bug.
Edited by: Fearchar Fada on 08/06/2003 05:51:34
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Death is only the beginning.... |
ABNTanker
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Posted - 2003.06.08 06:35:00 -
[11]
The point was out of the many possible solutions they had to choose from, they made a poor choice.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.06.08 06:58:00 -
[12]
most likely they will raise the sec of that sector, but I understand that requires a major update of the galaxy and everyone has to go manually delete there cache files to get the change to show, which is a pain in the behind for a lot of people (many still dont know/havent from last time) so I doubt they want to go doing that too often.
In the mean-time they gave a response, they did not use anything uber beyond the ships .. (which are designed to be the best of the best since they are the state of the art of all 5 empires) they stated in the dev blog they used the same equipment regime your people did, only on battleships (tech 1 equipment they said) .. they did not use any special powers to "instakill"
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Emitt Smith
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Posted - 2003.06.08 08:32:00 -
[13]
well, it seems that there are other ways ccp could have delt with this...
The could have implemented the security features they promised and made stations closed to those with negative sec for that faction without warning. Then m0o would be screaming about how they cant get there bps from station etc...
They could have put in the sentry guns and upgraded the police without warning and m0o would be whining about how they lost all their ships to some npc force of 10 battleships because they couldnt leave system.
They could have just banned them from game and forum and been done with it altogether. Not fair at all, but they could have done it and nobody would miss them. And dont whine about legality they have the option to end someones subscription for pretty much whatever reason they want. Are you going to go to court in Iceland over it?
It could be worse m0o, just be glad none of those other options were implemented (and i would advise you to move your stuff to a .0 sec station before the first one is).
I dont have anything against m0o, just pointing out the very real alternatives. Partialy in hopes that you will just get back to doing your pirate thing and stop whining as you are much more entertaining that way, and partialy because i like to point out stuff :o)
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Lee X
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Posted - 2003.06.08 10:22:00 -
[14]
a reasonable post - axelay (wimpy & whining pirates Ain't good for the game!)
hold whole systems for ransom so early in the game - i don't think they had any choice but to do it. and they did put warnings up, a lot of people never read the news. ( i don't in real life)
and i've never heard of moo's gate camping being announced, nor moo warning anybody, yet!
my only problem is that an even chance in battle (balance) is going to have to be created! where lag isn't the key to victory or whoever is warping in, is at a dis-advantage! ( maybe a finished warp check for both sides, where no-one can lock till both can! )
guess there is no "good" way to be bad! is there?
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Gargavar
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Posted - 2003.06.08 10:47:00 -
[15]
Well, I was attacked twice by mOo,one was a podkill and both in .9 space, last time I checked that is considered high... They are pirates working within the game so while it was rather annoying to get killed after bing in the game for several days it is part of the game.
I don't understand where MOo was instakilled though, didn't they say only one ship was destroyed? Doesn't sound very lopsided or overwhelming to me!
We all know that higher than 0.0 space is Empire controlled therefore we should EXPECT that the police or navy will defend those areas, in higher sec areas they shouldn't be pathetic at protection either. It is also obvious that that protecion should be in the form of gate security. What does this mean for pirate corps? It should mean that they cannot get into high sec space at all without SERIOUS threat, this would mean that to gather inteligence or obtain goods they ned fom the empire they will need to covertly enter high sec space and/or do deals with non-pirate corps. Nothing stopping them from using alts of course.
Surely this is an interesting turn of events? They need to consider consequences to their characters and build alliances just like the rest of us. Also, maybe the pirates can get into their own gang wars while waiting for the rest of us to get our arses into gear?!
I will say congratulations to MOo though, they have done exceedingly well in being a force and I agree with the GM spoken of earlier that said "on the contrary", these are they guys that help stop Eve from being a mining sim.
ALL of us will be much better off when we can get into 0.0 space, few of us a really ready for it at the moment it seems but I wouldn't get disheartened because unless non-pirate people want to cower under the Empires apron forever (wheres the fun in that!) there will be plenty of victims for pirates to take on. Incase some of you haven't noticed, CCP want us to start expanding into the jungle!
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Torval Sontu
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Posted - 2003.06.08 11:20:00 -
[16]
*sigh* why does moo think they are owed anything? If you feel that way perhaps try enb or another MMO.
=\
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Madismaxis
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Posted - 2003.06.08 12:03:00 -
[17]
"The point was out of the many possible solutions they had to choose from, they made a poor choice."
No thay did not it was the best choice overwelming force is about all pk players will respond to, anything else and thay would be here crying about a nerf.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.06.08 12:06:00 -
[18]
Haha, that's too funny. If you can do 600 damage with M-weapons, you don't think they can do 1000+ with L weapons the same way? If they "cheated" they did it exactly like you did, by "exploiting" the unbalanced weaponupgrades.
And why should they give you a system? Just because you grief? You usually don't reward people for griefing... they did the right thing and they will probably do it again if needed.
If you were real pirates as you say, this problem would never have occured. But you're not pirates, you're griefers who pod newbies for "fun".
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.06.08 12:20:00 -
[19]
Today i heard from a GM that it would all turn out in some while, and we just have to see what happens.
What happens is this, if i get pod or my ship gets shot after 1 week i saved for it, CCP can put that 12 dollars a month in youknowwhat. And gladly i am not the only one that thinks this way, more people dont apreciate mining 1 month for getting shot in a mather of seconds.
If it takes you 10 seconds to take out a moa, why bother as player? You mine 2 to 4 hours a day for 1 week, and get your nice shiny ship and some guy shoots you to barrels in a mather of seconds... Real sweet, but not the game for me.
I can understand that m0o uses these kind of weapons, its fun to be a god in a game... But after a while its getting rather dull and you will look for another game...
So basicly CCP is slowly hangin themselves with these kind of weapons, 1: they make players like me say bye bye when they get shot by these insane weapons, after players went bye bye and M0o gets sick of playing around days without resistance they say bye bye.
Also to the guys who claim m0o doesnt warn their preys, yesterday i heard enough profanity before i got attacked.
When i started out playing this game, i expected a good balance of shields, scramblers etc. to be a large aspect of the game... I expected PvP fights last hours and i expected tactical fighting... A weapon that does such kind of weapon is _not_ fitting in the picture i described above.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Killgorde
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Posted - 2003.06.08 12:45:00 -
[20]
Axelay? Maybe you missed the big roid nerf a week ago? You know - the one that forced all the big corps out into low security space to hunt down the quality ores? Or perhaps that one passed you by? Or maybe (as appears to be the case judging by all reports) you prefer preying on the weak and inexperienced in the core systems? Or possibly you dont know how to use the map function which tells you where the concentrations of better skilled players are in the outer regions so you can attack them (which is the way it should be).
As an aside its kinda amusing seeing Mikhail (and if he is a sample of your corp's quality in depth you have serious long term problems mate) screech "unfair" on the public forums about you getting waxed by uber ships, when you have been doing exactly the same thing pretty much unhindered - the only difference being your podding tactics are probably putting a lot of noobs off a game before they even have a chance to learn, get streetwise about and decide to extend their subscriptions for (must give you lamers a real tingle of pleasure that - like when you used to pull wings off flies as kids). I would hazard a guess that the GM action was taken as a result of being inundated with fed up new players about to terminate their accounts after being podded by yourselves.
Interesting to note that your corp showed up in YW-LQL earlier today - maybe the penny dropped for you a week after it did for everyone else - hardly surprising judging by the level of intellect and maturity you so ably demonstrate with you gameplay. Just please don't run when numbers are balanced and the fight is fair like you appear to have a reputation for doing thus far.
/Salutes
Killgorde
CEO - Cutting Edge Incorporated
"I thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but it turned out to be some bastard with a torch in one hand and a ****load more work for me in the other" |
Wildcat
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Posted - 2003.06.08 16:50:00 -
[21]
Stop whining moo creeps. You definantely got what you deserved no question about that. Just remember that the thoughts running through your heads now is the same thoughts chewed down by your victims.
Ill be glad to assist hunting mOO any day in my Rupture :)
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Eldon Tyrell
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Posted - 2003.06.08 16:52:00 -
[22]
The fact that 20 some ppl could grow to be so powerful among 5000 plus active players is very disturbing. Further expounded by the fact the GMs and Devs had to step in to curtail your actions.
Something is not right here...
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Scotty
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Posted - 2003.06.08 17:45:00 -
[23]
I fully support CCP taking action against the killers. I think CCP should have been harsher, and I hope they continue to take more actions in the near future to make it tougher for rampant killing to go on, like bases and gates refusing access to the killers.
But, I have seen a good point from an earlier post in this discussion:
"I...encourage CCP to take measures to expand the amount of content in this game and to lessen most of the time sinks enforced on players. Yes, the penalty for death is too harsh and the amount of work required to have fun in this game is too much for most people."
I do agree with this. It takes a long time to work at this game to get a good ship, and when that ship can be completely lost so quickly it certainly is no fun and is likely to be a reason for people to quit. Who wants to again go through weeks of work (like mining as most players do) again to get another ship that may be lost in seconds? Being able to be shot and blown up while loading after a gate is....well, not good at all. Being able to be blown up in seconds by some uber weapons isn't good at all either. Not unless that ship can be replaced in seconds too.
If you could get your ship replaced quickly and easily if it gets destroyed, after you have already worked to get it once, players would be willing to take more risks to try to have fun, and not be so unhappy about it getting destroyed, and inclined to quit when it is destroyed.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.06.08 19:22:00 -
[24]
I haven't had to deal with MOO yet, but if you really pod people while they are still loading the sector you don't deserve anything but option 7 - griefers need to be fed their own medicine (and usually start whining about it instantly).
Play fair, play honorable - and I might agree that you deserved better.
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Naran Darkmood
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Posted - 2003.06.08 19:52:00 -
[25]
There is a problem with the code no doubt if a ship is already beaten to death when the sector is loaded (it should be loaded on the client already when the ship does enter, its just a matter of setting another switch in the code).
However, most of you haven't realized, there is a thing called insurance in the game already? its about 200k for a cruiser, so its not that overpriced and you get your money back as sson as your ship is whacked.
BTT: I think CCp could have done worse. But To make it a co-ordinated attack (as any military would have done) there would have been at least 1 battleship waiting on every escape route with 4 jumping right inot the fun. The result would have been a new clone for everybody in the system... So plz, m0o stop complaining just because somebody tried to do to you what you were doing for days to others.
But still, congratz that you had the GMs take action against you, that is an achievement as well. I also lieked the news 'stay away here, cause its pirate invested'. Keep that part up, but stop grieving.
-----------------------------------------------
The following bonuses may be awarded to you:
27 units of Basic Expanded Cargohold at if you complete the mission |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2003.06.08 22:50:00 -
[26]
There was no instakill. They used ordinary equipment that anyone can get.
I think that the action taken by CONCORD against m0o was good roleplay. I suggest that m0o find somewhere outside empire space to play in. But that's just my personal opinion.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Lilith
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Posted - 2003.06.09 00:38:00 -
[27]
Although I agree that CCP was correct in dispatching the Special Forces Swat Team, Axelay has a good point.
Any corp (like m0o) that wants to take this kind of path, should (and do) have the option to do so, however, in Empire or "Civilized" space they should be playing terrorist Russian-roulette with the authorities.
But...
m0o wanted a system all to themselves where they could fend off the bounty hunters, pod mining claimjumpers and terrorize traders/explorers who got too close to their base.
This is perfectly acceptable and what will eventually make eVe unlike anything else.
The only way for them to do that, would be to be able to build a station in such a system.
Is station building implemented yet?
Perhaps CCP should consider implementing all of the features, and then wiping the servers.
This would make the game an even playing field. The asteroid belts would be the same now for everyone.
Exploits (Corporate and others) that have had a crippling effect would be mostly shut down.
Home regions and higher security systems would be properly (and realistically) protected.
But the Clean Slate approach would never be implemented because I, for one, would be screaming my lungs out for another free month not to mention all the hard work I've put in already. ;)
Hel, I'd like to be hunting the badass Amarr slavers, but I'd only want to do it as roleplaying would allow. (Secretly, I'm hoping for CCP to release a complete RP server). For the moment, I'm having to bide my time.
...now back to your regularly scheduled milking. :p
Better to be an enemy than a slave. |
Salient
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Posted - 2003.06.09 01:26:00 -
[28]
what the hell? I made a reasonable post earlier that was deleted?
Jesus CCP, gimme a break...it seems that every day there is yet another glaring reason to suspect that EVE has an ugly and short lived future, at least as far as my time and money are concerned.
Way to go CCP! Nerf but don't fix anything! Roleplay you way around performance and server limitations.
Eve should have pirates. CCP should fix buggy code, not make up ways to eliminate the need to do so.
Awaiting deletion...
Edited by: Salient on 09/06/2003 01:28:32
ut tensio sic vis |
Xentropy
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Posted - 2003.06.09 02:02:00 -
[29]
"(must give you lamers a real tingle of pleasure that - like when you used to pull wings off flies as kids)"
You mean they're not still kids? They act 8 years old, so it's hard to imagine them much older than that.
Oh, and the 600-damage weapon exploit is only one of many they utilize. Last night they were also using the "camp station inside docking ring" tactic which allowed them to (barely) win a fight in which they were outnumbered three to one by docking for repairs anytime their ships dropped to half hitpoints. You can't "dock scramble", and since sentry guns sit there ignoring the -10 security level pirates killing the station's customers, only deciding to fire if the station or guns themselves are fired upon (or convoys, gee thanks), there's nothing stopping the exploitation of this design flaw.
They want to be GIVEN a system? They're a negative feature in the game and expect to get a cookie for that? If I see a rat in my house I set traps, I don't feed it and give it a home.
I'd like to see CCP invoke the license agreement every member of M0O agrees to every time they load the game and ban the whole lot (or at least the confirmed supermajority) for bug exploitation. Of course then they'd whine "unfair"... but then again, they wouldn't have access to these boards to whine, either.
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Eldon Tyrell
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Posted - 2003.06.09 02:21:00 -
[30]
Agreed Xentropy
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Raistlin
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Posted - 2003.06.09 02:42:00 -
[31]
Axelay the whining continues with u, just suck it up and move on. Stop Crying Please, its pathetic. Either Move out or Die pick one and stop complaining.
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Chaos Reigns
** Proud Member of Stain Alliance ** |
Xanif
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Posted - 2003.06.09 02:56:00 -
[32]
Lilith, Mara was a KEY trade route in the Caldari empire. M0o didn't "stumble" upon it and go "Oooooo, a pretty system to defend!" No, they picked a system that would take an extra hour and a half to get around and started podding anyone who approached the gate.
Charging a fee and destroying those who don't pay, I can dig it. The only mistake you would have made then was being stupid enough to hang around the same gate for 2 weeks. By sticking in one area for a long time, you are just inviting the police to come deal with you.
But podding people because they *might* want to go through "your" gate is not cool.
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Rivver
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Posted - 2003.06.09 13:14:00 -
[33]
I think moo got what it deserved. I have had several run in with other player pirate corps and they was quite mannered and well spoken to be around.
Dont whine. Such is life.
Tyrell, i 100% agree with your first post also.
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Nota Mooboy
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Posted - 2003.06.09 15:49:00 -
[34]
might want to check
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=6163 |
Stengerlan
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Posted - 2003.06.09 16:00:00 -
[35]
They went easy on you. If I was them, I would have simply banned you from the game, and banned your credit cards...
Maybe CCP will do the right thing next time, and start purging the 1337 wannabe dewdz griefers from the game.
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Shadowfire
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Posted - 2003.06.09 19:31:00 -
[36]
1. Give you a system? Are you special? If you want a system to yourself that you can defend, do what everyone else has to ... earn it.
2. They could have. I've seen the like on Earth when the US went into Kuwait to defend against Iraq (the first time). The US basically warned its citizens abroad to avoid the area.
3. They could have. Its not too bad of an idea really.
4. Again? When was the first time?
5. What? This doesn't make much sense. You (M0o) are not using similarly equipped ships when you attack and pod people are you? Of course you aren't. So why would you expect the Caldari Empire to use similarly equipped ships to deal with you?
6. This one is laughable. You are acting as pirates in Empire controlled space. You should have expected something like this was going to happen.
7. How is this any different that what you're doing to the people of Caldari space? The Caldari responded in kind.
Now that thats done, let me explain my thinking about all this.
1. CCP decided to adjust the spawn rate of the more valuable asteroids. This caused most (all) of the larger corporations to move out of Empire space and into the outlying regions. This may or may not have been intentional on CCP's part
2. Pirate corporations (Like FoA, M0o, and M3G4) took this opportunity to "fill the void" in Empire space that was caused by the mass exodus of the larger corporations.
3. The pirate corporations, upon seeing no resistance, began exercising their corporate power upon the smaller, and newbie, corporations.
4. CCP, acting in the guise of Empire forces, engages the pirate corporations in an attempt to force them either out of Empire space, or to scale back their operations within Empire space.
Maybe, just maybe, this is what CCP intended all along. It provides the gaming community with an event (or events) that includes a portion of the community acting as a major part of the event.
My 2 ISK
http://www.taggarttransdimensional.com |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.06.09 21:58:00 -
[37]
In an ideal world, m0o would have been left to their own devices, and it would have been up to the corps do get organised and do something about it.
I think the real killer issue was podding noobs, which means they might not have renewed their subscriptions...
Basic precautions like sentry guns on jumpgates and nerfing the heatsinks is sensible though. Also it was unreasonable that a 0.4 system was so easily taken over by pirates, and security ought to have been more effective in the first place. Fixing the load-lag after warping for the incoming player wouldn't go amiss either.
While I far from approve of what they were doing, it has to be said they were playing within the rules. In general CCP are taking a very hands-off policy, but I'd imagine the possibility that moo may have been nerfing their income stream had something to do with this decision.
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AsInnocentAsItGets
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Posted - 2004.02.03 05:37:00 -
[38]
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Racknan
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Posted - 2004.02.03 06:11:00 -
[39]
 Quote:
dude! knock if off!
This thread is EIGHT months old!!
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