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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.03 16:01:00 -
[31]
Omniwar said what I was going to say pretty much.
Oh and yes, Wrath Cruise missiles, as far as missiles go, is one of the cheaper to make. I just used it as my example because it is by far and large the most popular PvP missile.
Torpedoes cost far more to produce, as do Paradise Cruise. I don't have any torpedo blueprints, I'll see if I can dig up the numbers on that later.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.03 16:19:00 -
[32]
Here is a list of most of the ammo/missiles/toprs all researched at least mineral level 100.
The prices I have are outdated for the minerals but taken off the market in domain region about 6 weeks ago, still it is easy to see the difference between ammo charges and missiles/torps.
Trit = 1.03
Pyer = 4.1
Mex = 16
Iso = 64
Nocx = 256
Zyd = 3.500
Mega = 17.000
Wrath Kinetic
Trit : 3.279 = 3.377,37
Pyer : 1.653 = 6.777,3
Zyd : 5 = 17.500
total for 10 missiles = 27.654,67
total for 1 missile 2.766
Paradise EM
Trit : 2.654 = 2.733,62
Pyer : 2.272 = 9.315,2
Mex : 185 = 2.960
Nocx : 6 = 1.524
Iso : 74 = 4.736
Mega : 3 = 51.000
Total for 10 missiles = 72.268,82
Total for 1 missile = 7.227
Devastator explosive
Trit : 4.504 = 4.639,12
Pyer : 1.082 = 4.436,2
Mex : 185 = 2960
Nocx : 5 = 1280
Zyd : 3 = 10.500
Total for 10 missiles = 23.815,32
Total for 1 missile = 2.382
Cataclysm thermal
Pyer : 3.734 = 15.309,4
Iso : 18 = 1.152
Zyd : 9 = 31.500
Total for 10 missiles = 47.961,4
Total for 1 missile = 4.797
Dragon FOF Kinetic
Trit : 4.737 = 4.879,11
Pyer : 2.845 = 11.664,5
Zyd : 3 = 10.500
Total for 10 missiles = 27.043,61
Total for 1 missiles = 2.705
Hunter FOF EM
Trit : 5.888 = 6.064,64
Pyer : 5.884 = 24.124,4
Mex : 15 = 240
Nocx : 1 = 256
Zyd : 1 = 3.500
Total for 10 missiles = 34.185,04
Total for 1 missiles = 3.419
Obliterator FOF explosive
Trit : 3.497 = 3.601,91
Pyer : 2.399 = 9.835,9
Mex : 99 = 1.584
Nocx : 4 = 1024
Total for 10 missiles = 16.045,81
Total for 1 missiles = 1.605
Phoenix FOF thermal
Trit : 6.178 = 6.363,34
Pyer : 3.878 = 15.899,8
Mex : 8 = 128
Nocx : 3 = 768
Zyd : 3 = 10.500
Total for 10 missiles = 33.659,14
Total for 1 missiles = 3.366
Bane explosive torp
Trit : 9.379 = 9.660,37
Pyer : 5.619 = 23.037,9
Mex : 316 = 5.056
Mega : 6 = 102.000
Total for 10 torps = 139.754,27
Total for 1 torp = 13.976
Inferno Thermal torp
Trit : 10.885 = 11.211,55
Mex : 1.586 = 25.376
Nocx : 54 = 13.824
Total for 10 torps = 50.411,55
Total for 1 torp = 5.042
Mjolnir EM torp
Trit : 5.603 = 5.771,09
Pyer : 2.889 = 11.844,9
Mex : 3 = 48
Iso : 315 = 20.160
Zyd : 6 = 21.000
Total for 10 torps = 58.823,99
Total for 10 torp = 5.883
EMP large : -50% range
Trit : 2.002 = 2.062,06
Pyer : 143 = 586,3
Mex : 100 = 1.600
Iso : 33 = 2.112
Total for 100 units = 6.360,36
Total for 1 unit = 64
Nuclear L : +40% range
Trit : 586 = 603,58
Pyer : 113 = 463,3
Mex : 3 = 48
Nocx : 3 = 768
Iso : 3 = 192
Total for 100 units = 2.074,88
Total for 1 units = 21
Antimatter L : -50% range
Trit : 2.002 = 2.062,06
Pyer : 143 = 586,3
Mex : 100 = 1.600
Iso : 33 = 2.112
Total for 100 units = 6.360,36
Total for 1 unit = 64
titanium sabot L
trit : 937 = 965
pyer : 140 = 575
mex : 94 = 1.504
Total for 100 = 3.044
total for 1 = 31
Tungsten charge L
trit : 468 = 482
pyer : 90 = 370
mex : 2 = 32
iso : 2 = 128
nocx : 2 = 512
total for 100 = 1.524
total for 1 = 16
Spawn of the Devil
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Thesiuss
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Posted - 2004.02.03 20:09:00 -
[33]
Jim is totally right in this regard.
Missiles are FAR too expensive to produce and the production times on a batch is a joke. The case for these issues have already been stated with pure fact so there's no need in me rehashing them.
I would hope that the devs would please look at these two issues.
Oberon Inc Website--------------Oberon Sales Page
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.11 02:15:00 -
[34]
hate to bump but i'd really like a response to this thread from TomB! :[
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.02.11 08:18:00 -
[35]
Yeah it is crap. Maybe you should bump it when TomB's back from drinking in London 
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FZappa
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Posted - 2004.02.11 09:26:00 -
[36]
i have to agree :/
being a producer , having 4 factory slots
busy making torps for the next 16hours each is
bloody annoying
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Agan Rafa
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Posted - 2004.02.11 11:00:00 -
[37]
I'm not so sure I agree with the time factor on its own - but I definitely do when seen in relation to other times.
Whoever said it was absolutely right - a BS should take AT LEAST a week - if not a month to build. The answer was whether 'he wanted to HAVE a BS take a week' - I'm not sure its a question of wanting, more a question of NEEDING. The economy is really flawed with regards to this, because there is no incentive to really specialise production at all - everyone gets to produce everything all quick and easy.
I for one am hoping that T2 and, maybe at a later date, T3 will go some way towards correcting the economic imbalance in production. In theory big projects need big corps - as it stands any old freelancer can build his own BS.
With T2 a certain amount of specialisation is required, and also vertical and horizontal product lines become possible for the first time - I like that. More in this direction please CCP, its looking good....
Carebear extraordinaire |
Darker
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Posted - 2004.02.11 12:15:00 -
[38]
 Quote:
I'm not so sure I agree with the time factor on its own - but I definitely do when seen in relation to other times.
Whoever said it was absolutely right - a BS should take AT LEAST a week - if not a month to build. The answer was whether 'he wanted to HAVE a BS take a week' - I'm not sure its a question of wanting, more a question of NEEDING. The economy is really flawed with regards to this, because there is no incentive to really specialise production at all - everyone gets to produce everything all quick and easy.
I for one am hoping that T2 and, maybe at a later date, T3 will go some way towards correcting the economic imbalance in production. In theory big projects need big corps - as it stands any old freelancer can build his own BS.
With T2 a certain amount of specialisation is required, and also vertical and horizontal product lines become possible for the first time - I like that. More in this direction please CCP, its looking good....
I agree, production times/cost should be evaluated better. i find it ridiculous that one can produce a BS in under 5h .Atleast they could put some "new" skills which would give +bonuses to cost & time but not both @ same time ,these could be trained down taking the same time as training up... balancing the cost/time/demand of an item. they need to enforce the need for more dedicated skilled ppl not a one man solution.
*just another brainfart*
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TomB
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Posted - 2004.02.11 12:26:00 -
[39]
Fixed, all missiles types have minimum of 2 minutes manufacturing time now.
So you wanted to test out some boosters? |
Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.02.11 12:35:00 -
[40]
now hows that for service, nice start, now its just a shame you have to mortgate a house to be able to fill up with torps... 
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.11 12:38:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Fixed, all missiles types have minimum of 2 minutes manufacturing time now.
n_n
..how about price? o_O
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.11 14:03:00 -
[42]
Jim,
How happy are you feeling now? 10x reduction in manufacturing time is a great result
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.11 21:50:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Jim,
How happy are you feeling now? 10x reduction in manufacturing time is a great result
very, the old production time was ridiculous.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.02.11 22:41:00 -
[44]
Quote:
People who say I am wrong, or people who say that running 6 factories at once is the answer, and people who say to find 'hire' better builders (though missiles don't build much faster for them, either).
Well, what can I say? You're obviously people who don't use missiles, and certainly don't have ships with over 2 launchers. Try running a ship with 4-6 launchers for a month and come back with a real opinion.
Missiles are equal to ammo, they are not superior, and in many ways, they are inferior. In terms of gameplay, this is a huge imbalance and a huge burden for missile users.
As far as costs, well here's the numbers:
Antimatter per 100 rounds
Isogen 31
Mexallon 96
Pyerite 137
Tritanium 1921
Total Cost in ISK - 5605
Time to build - Under 2 minutes.
Wrath Cruise Missile per 100 missiles
Zydrine 60
Tritanium 39500
Pyerite 19910
Total Cost in ISK - 312,000
Time to build - Over 3 hours.
Quite a difference yes?
Please look at those numbers and tell me that this game is fair to missile users in terms of cost and production, okay?
pretty much agree with all of it, i've gone to using things like the apocalypse just for these reasons. The raven is an awesome ship but it's very very costly to keep armed. in comparrisson at least.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.11 23:11:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Fixed, all missiles types have minimum of 2 minutes manufacturing time now.
\m/
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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.02.11 23:55:00 -
[46]
Hmm, my Cruise Missile BP Copies still say 1200 manufacturingtime and my Torpedo BP Copies say 2400 manufacturingtime....
K.
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.02.12 00:18:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Quote:
Fixed, all missiles types have minimum of 2 minutes manufacturing time now.
\m/
now just to fix the cost 
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
|
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.12 00:20:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Hmm, my Cruise Missile BP Copies still say 1200 manufacturingtime and my Torpedo BP Copies say 2400 manufacturingtime....
K.
when TomB says fixed he means fixed for the next patch.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2004.02.12 01:41:00 -
[49]
cool on the production time fixes :)
on the comparison of 100 antimatter for 5.6k to 100 cruise missiles for 312k .. you have to take some small notice of the fact you'd have to fire around ten times as much antimatter to match the damage of the missiles (its still quite a gap - but its 500% rather than 5000%)
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2004.02.12 03:50:00 -
[50]
Quote:
cool on the production time fixes :)
on the comparison of 100 antimatter for 5.6k to 100 cruise missiles for 312k .. you have to take some small notice of the fact you'd have to fire around ten times as much antimatter to match the damage of the missiles (its still quite a gap - but its 500% rather than 5000%)
Umm what??
I regularly hit for 200-250 a round with AM ammo on my 425 rails. (at optimal) Stock Cruise damage is 300.
If damage per round should affect cost then projectile ammo should be hella expensive, what with all those hits in excess of 800 and all...
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.12 03:51:00 -
[51]
Quote:
cool on the production time fixes :)
on the comparison of 100 antimatter for 5.6k to 100 cruise missiles for 312k .. you have to take some small notice of the fact you'd have to fire around ten times as much antimatter to match the damage of the missiles (its still quite a gap - but its 500% rather than 5000%)
you're wrong
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.12 09:33:00 -
[52]
Quote:
cool on the production time fixes :)
on the comparison of 100 antimatter for 5.6k to 100 cruise missiles for 312k .. you have to take some small notice of the fact you'd have to fire around ten times as much antimatter to match the damage of the missiles (its still quite a gap - but its 500% rather than 5000%)
So you do MAXIMUM 36 dmg per shot with LARGE hybrids 
You must be joking, train up your skills because that dmg is well possible with SMALL hybrids.
Spawn of the Devil
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.12 09:37:00 -
[53]
Fix mines too.
I'll never use them but it bugs me that I can't.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:26:00 -
[54]
Jim this would be the only topic i agree with u on BUT! "for the luv of god TomB" <---see your still whining stop whining
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.02.13 15:42:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Fixed, all missiles types have minimum of 2 minutes manufacturing time now.
Thank you TomB
Jim and others know my stance on missiles, so no need to argue points we agree on.
This was a nice and welcome change. Thanks again.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.13 18:37:00 -
[56]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 13/02/2004 18:47:08
Quote:
It takes 20 minutes to make 10 damn missiles. By comparision, I can crank out 100 rounds of antimatter ammo in under 2 minutes. I can make drones faster than missiles, this is ridiculous.
Personally, I¦m much more concerned over the mineral requirements, especially cruise missiles.
Mai's Idealog |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.13 20:24:00 -
[57]
While its good to see production time getting a huge cut. I personally don't wish to see a big drop in cost. Yes missiles are WAY more expensive, but they also have alot of benifits to using them.
They will almost always hit(unless opponent uses countermeasures and then countermeasures are more xpensive than ammo)
They are effective at almost any range.
They can be used on all ship sizes.
People using standard ammo get alot of misses and well thats ok because the ammo is cheap. People using ammo have to worry alot about tracking, optimal range and other statistics that severly limit their use.
So if anything don't reduce the cost of missiles but perhaps give em a bit more dmg to make them in the same league as some of the hvy hitting turrets.
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Sebiestor Jackal
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Posted - 2004.04.09 14:53:00 -
[58]
please reduce the cost of Missles just a little, production wise is not to bad for now.
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**Free My People**
**All Amarrians MUST DIE!!** |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.04.09 17:05:00 -
[59]
Welcome to the locked thread area.
Join the IC! |
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