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Anatal Klep
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Posted - 2007.08.08 17:48:00 -
[1]
The original behavior that prompted my trying to file a bug leading to the events of Part I was the following...
If one opens the map and selects Settings\Labels\System Names, the display shows 6-8 systems names centered around the system where the character is. There is no way to make more names appear. The most one can do is more the character to a new system and get 6-8 new names displayed centered on that location. IMO, one should see the names of all the systems, at least within the region. If things get cluttered, that's why god invented camera zoom.
If one selects Settings\Lines\Selected Region, one gets the jump connection lines in bright, spiffy colors. However, as soon as one clicks on or even moves the cursor over a system dot, the lines either disappear entirely or become so dim that they can't be seen unless one's eyes are 2 inches from the screen. The only way that the lines become visible again is if one exits the map and then re-enters it.
CCP has provided several one-liner answers to several re-submissions about being a feature or not being reproducible or needing more information. The very fact that those responses are mutually exclusive is rather disturbing. There is even inconsistency in their advice for what to do next if I don't agree. On the one hand they say the bug report is closed, on the second hand they say it should be edited, and on the third hand they say a new bug report should be filed.
It is certainly reproducible because it happens every time I enter the map, whether it is immediately after logging in, any time during a session, or at the end of a session. The behavior is ALWAYS exactly as I described it.
Now why do I think this is a problem? I have lots of remote buy orders out so I have assets sprinkled all over the region that I perodically need to pick up. To do that I need to figure out the optimum route between the systems where assets are (a classic Traveling Salesman problem). Try doing that when the vast majority of system names in the region are not shown. If one "hovers" the cursor on an unidentified system to see which one it is, the jump lines needed to figure out the path disappear. The bottom line is that it can take half an hour or more of jumping in and out of the map just to figure out a single route with a dozen stops. IMO that behavior is user vicious.
However CCP has been adamant in our last couple of bouts that it was intended to behave that way. So I am taking another survey:
(A) This is a reasonable way for the map to act.
(B) CCP is stonewalling.
(C) HAL is out to get me.
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Imaur Valeth
Caldari
Veni Vidi Vici.
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Posted - 2007.08.08 17:55:00 -
[2]
I may be missing the point but there is a way of getting the game to plot the quickest or safest route. You can even set what you deem as safe. You do not need to work it out yourself.
 Quote:
However CCP has been adamant in our last couple of bouts that it was intended to behave that way.
Then maybe it is supposed to be like this. I've never seen it act in any other way. Therefore i'd say they are right.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.08 17:57:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Imaur Valeth
Quote:
However CCP has been adamant in our last couple of bouts that it was intended to behave that way.
Then maybe it is supposed to be like this. I've never seen it act in any other way. Therefore i'd say they are right.
Just because it's a feature you don't like, it doesn't make it a bug. Also, you should really keep this to one thread.
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc
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Posted - 2007.08.08 18:08:00 -
[4]
Solution: Get ombey's 2d eve maps and stop using F11
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.08 18:24:00 -
[5]
A
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JSkywalker
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Posted - 2007.08.08 18:25:00 -
[6]
For maps, and trying to find out a route by hand, visit:
http://www.ombeve.co.uk/
(or go directly to:)
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/ombey/Eve_Regions.pdf
otherwise, i miss quit a lot of info in you story that is needed to know if this is a bug or just a result of something else.
- what gfx-card you use?
- what resolution (and screen-size) do you play?
- what happens if you turn up brightness on your monitor....?
- ......
and if CCP says its a feature, than it IS a FEATURE!!! (and not a BUG)
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ExploitedB
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Posted - 2007.08.08 18:41:00 -
[7]
I vote A :P
Maybe youre doing it wrong.
Try "Color stars by My Assets" and plot a route from there. You can see all systems names on your route once you set a destination/waypoints.
I can understand that you find one-liner responses disturbing but maybe part of the problem is many players submiting many bug reports/petitions not all of wich are valid.
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CynWulf
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tamoko
Solution: Get ombey's 2d eve maps and stop using F11
HOOORAAAYYY for Ombey.
He's in my corp. yeah ..and he gets out of bed way to early. aside form that Ombey eve maps are essential. Cant run em on another computer dont feel like ALT-TABing all the time.. do what I did.
goto office supplie store purechase:
-paper
-sheet covers (you know the type where you slide the sheet of paper inside)
-a cool highspeed binder (one with a slip cover on the front so you can print off your character portrait and use it as a cool cover)
and Voila instant map reference you can order buy sec status or region or favorite mining/ganking/mission running areas.
Use it as a coffee table book that invites titilating conversation.
Use it as a handy mouse pad
Use it to throw at your cat/dog/hamster when he gets to close to your powerstrip and unplugs it from the wall
Ombey maps 'cause you can never get up to early.
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Calshim
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.09 06:56:00 -
[9]
Ombey's maps are essential to anyone who travels the eve universe a lot.
Ombey puts so much time into the maps I'm amazed he has time to play.
The poor sod lives near me too 
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BiteFight |
Anatal Klep
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Posted - 2007.08.09 15:49:00 -
[10]
I get a 404 error on Ombey's pdf URL.
Let me clarify that I want to find the route(s) with the *minimum* number of jumps between the systems with assets. It is further complicated by the fact that I may need two or more trips visiting different systems and there may be certain systems that I need to avoid. I don't know of any way to do that other than looking at the map with all jump lines and system names visible.
However, I really don't think why I want to see system names and jump lines should matter. If one asks to see system names, then one should see system names. It is not up to CCP to decide how many the customer should see or make assumptions about which ones the customer wants to see. If the system is in the view area, then display the name like the customer asked.
Similarly, if one asks to see jump lines for a region, it should not be CPP deciding when or why those lines should be visible. They should be visible until the customer says they are no longer needed by selecting another option.
That sort of design where the developers define how the user should use the software is known as a "Product Out" view and it was discarded in the late '80s in favor of "Voice of the Customer".
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.09 15:54:00 -
[11]
While all the above maybe true, I still believe it should be re-stated - just because you don't like how a particular feature is implemented, it does not make said feature a bug.
As for the map link, the website works as of a few minutes ago, as does the link to the maps directly.
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.08.09 16:22:00 -
[12]
i also would like to be able to "select" a different region to see all the lines... and i agree that there should at least be some option to make the system names remain visible.
basically, for the reasons you have described, i find the map unusable for visually plotting a course. however, when using the auto-pilot, i find the map to be an excellent visual reference when adjusting waypoints.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Tommy TenKreds
Caldari
Animal.
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Posted - 2007.08.09 16:28:00 -
[13]
The underlying problem is that map use and display options are so inflexible and so poorly implemented that it is difficult to distinguish correct behaviour from bugged behaviour.
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Acacia Everto
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.09 17:12:00 -
[14]
Expounding upon Map "I Wants"
-Ability to add custom search parameters. If I want to find the closest system with a security status of <0.5 and >0.0 that isn't Nalvula, let me.
-Decouple autopilot planner from the map.
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Wacoede
Amarr
Allied Combat Team
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.08.09 18:09:00 -
[15]
i vote C just to be different 
An Idea about Bounties Version 2 |
tikinish
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Posted - 2007.08.09 18:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: tikinish on 09/08/2007 18:26:29
Originally by: Tarminic
While all the above maybe true, I still believe it should be re-stated - just because you don't like how a particular feature is implemented, it does not make said feature a bug.
As for the map link, the website works as of a few minutes ago, as does the link to the maps directly.
well considering they said pos bowling was not a exploit and thereby most be a feature
 
i would say that every "bug/exploit" is a feature unless it totally prevent the use of a specific other feature.
(like the contract loan system which took them long enough to admit that it was not intended and was a exploit to scam people that set the contract up :P )
edit: correction, i WOULDN'T say, but ccp would say
topic worth reading
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=569893&page=1sp idea[/ |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.09 19:41:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Imaur Valeth
I may be missing the point but there is a way of getting the game to plot the quickest or safest route. You can even set what you deem as safe. You do not need to work it out yourself.
Actually no you cant.
Sure you can choose safer or faster but the toggle bar that suposedly sets safety to a value between 0 and 100 is broken.
If you choose safer and set the bar to 0 (unsafe) the autopilot will, just as it should, send you through more unsecure systems, the odd thing however is that it seems to at times choose a longer route to be more insecure.
If you however choose faster then the toggle bar dosent seem to work at all and the autopilot automatically chooses the more unsecure of possible routes of equal number of jumps even if you have the bar set to 100 (as safe as possible).
Now me, im old enough in this game to know not to trust the autopilot, I doubble check my routes if I carry expensive stuff. In reality I mainly use the autopilot as a next system on route info thingie but it always suprises me that the autopilot behaves like it does :)
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