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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:15:00 -
[1]
Hi you don't know me but i have been discussing some issues about lasers with my corp and here are some of the suggestions i came up with.
Lasers right now suck too much capacitor and they have dodgy range .
I came up with a few suggestions maybe 1 or 2 or perhaps even all of them could be implemented obviously adjusted for balance reasons.
First of i think the base capacitor usage of lasers needs to be reduced, for the simple reason not many amarr ships have the slots needed for a mwd / ab, web, scram and a cap booster. So it is dificult to keep your guns going with natural recharge in gank mode, let alone once you have fitted a tank.
Another soloution i don't know how well this work is: Increase the base damage mod? So they get more damage for there cap? Perhaps increase damage mod and reduce rof? So they get same dps??? But use less cap (i have not done any math just i need to make some amarr stuff even tho i am not amarr but i am fed up of caldari whines)
Another soloution: Increase tracking and reduce the cap slightly.
Please add to this thread, just snap out ideas and see where we get :) ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Linnth
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:19:00 -
[2]
I agree, not sure how I think they would be fixed most effectively and balanced. But something needs to be done. Like you say, not many have the mid-slots for a cap injector, and trying to hit something within webbing range without a webber fitted is quite interesting...
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LMAAAOOOO
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:23:00 -
[3]
Or Delete Amarr from this game. _______________________________________________
Originally by: murder one lmaaaoooo has made it into my sig.
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Phil Miller
Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:23:00 -
[4]
Dr. Evil: You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have? Number Two: Sea Bass. Dr. Evil: [pause] Right. Number Two: They're mutated sea bass. Dr. Evil: Are they ill tempered? Number Two: Absolutely. Dr. Evil: Oh well, that's a start.
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Llerrad Gabemid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Llerrad Gabemid on 08/08/2007 19:28:09 increase damage a lil increase tracking a lil decrease cap use a lil
and then just balance what a "lil" exactly is
problem solved? no?
Ranch on my tossed salad please. |
Draem
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:36:00 -
[6]
You know most people will ignore this topic because in the opening line you spelled lasers wrong. Though you spell it correctly inside the topic, most people judge too fast when it comes to complaining or offering ideas to boost one race.
More damage types please. I can survive everything else, but the lack of damage types is hurting.
I wish I had an alt. |
Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lydia Browm Hi you don't know me but i have been discussing some issues about lasers with my corp and here are some of the suggestions i came up with.
Lasers right now suck too much capacitor and they have dodgy range .
I came up with a few suggestions maybe 1 or 2 or perhaps even all of them could be implemented obviously adjusted for balance reasons.
First of i think the base capacitor usage of lasers needs to be reduced, for the simple reason not many amarr ships have the slots needed for a mwd / ab, web, scram and a cap booster. So it is dificult to keep your guns going with natural recharge in gank mode, let alone once you have fitted a tank.
Another soloution i don't know how well this work is: Increase the base damage mod? So they get more damage for there cap? Perhaps increase damage mod and reduce rof? So they get same dps??? But use less cap (i have not done any math just i need to make some amarr stuff even tho i am not amarr but i am fed up of caldari whines)
Another soloution: Increase tracking and reduce the cap slightly.
Please add to this thread, just snap out ideas and see where we get :)
(1) Are lasers any use at all in PvP?
(2) If so, shush it, and let's fix missiles first.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid Edited by: Llerrad Gabemid on 08/08/2007 19:28:09 increase damage a lil increase tracking a lil decrease cap use a lil
and then just balance what a "lil" exactly is
problem solved? no?
You know what i should kill you, i offered suggestions and alternative / pcik 'n' mix option i did not say omg lets boost add all stuff, i also said post stuff and lets bash heads and stuff, what are you contributing noob troll alt !!!!
Yes im alt but im not trolling ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Fager
Thunderstruck.
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid Edited by: Llerrad Gabemid on 08/08/2007 19:28:09 increase damage a lil increase tracking a lil decrease cap use a lil
and then just balance what a "lil" exactly is
problem solved? no?
Im no laser experts, but i have something to add. Most Lasers are not shortrange but more midrange, or low sniper range right? I believe Lasers dont have that big tracking problems if they are at midrange (30km-80km or something)
This makes them suffer like missile users; sucky at closerange, no fights in mid range couse Closerange is wheremost fights start and Closerange is faster+no solotackling in midrange, and lower Sniper range.. dunno about that but from others it seems to be a pretty doable option.
I mean if more fights where at Midrange (I.E midrange had some advantages over Closerange) would Lasers work good there? Im really a laser noob, these are just some observation from one heh. Thoughts?
"I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
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Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:42:00 -
[10]
Lasers need:
1 - Slightly reduced grid usage say 10%. Dunno if smaller lasers need this adjustment but the larger ones do. 2 - Slight cap use reduction say 10%.
DPS on lasers is amazing. They suffer -vs- 2xEANMII + DCII tanks but -vs- active tanks they are fine.
Only damage type adjustment I might make is to make their crystals all 50/50 EM/Thermal crystals but not increase the base damage amounts. This would help make radio crystals and such a little less sucky.
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Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fager
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid Edited by: Llerrad Gabemid on 08/08/2007 19:28:09 increase damage a lil increase tracking a lil decrease cap use a lil
and then just balance what a "lil" exactly is
problem solved? no?
Im no laser experts, but i have something to add. Most Lasers are not shortrange but more midrange, or low sniper range right? I believe Lasers dont have that big tracking problems if they are at midrange (30km-80km or something)
This makes them suffer like missile users; sucky at closerange, no fights in mid range couse Closerange is wheremost fights start and Closerange is faster+no solotackling in midrange, and lower Sniper range.. dunno about that but from others it seems to be a pretty doable option.
I mean if more fights where at Midrange (I.E midrange had some advantages over Closerange) would Lasers work good there? Im really a laser noob, these are just some observation from one heh. Thoughts?
Laser range is a big bonus for their Pulses and DPS is a big bonus for Beams.
Small gang pvp happens at the 50km range all the time. At this range Beams own. Better tracking that other long range guns, higher dps.
For solo work Amarr have some issues due to low midslot count and high cap useage. Nos nerf should help this a lot.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:46:00 -
[12]
Umm...*looks around*...lasers. Concentrated light....right? About so?...soo...
*looks around more*
How 'bout we take range out altogether and make 'em shoot pewpew anywhere?
*runs*
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
DarkElf
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:48:00 -
[13]
There is nothing wrong with lasers
DE
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Linnth
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malcanis
(1) Are lasers any use at all in PvP?
(2) If so, shush it, and let's fix missiles first.
Ehm, I don't get it. With missiles you hit (and it's a good hit) at ranges 0 meters and out. While lasers won't hit a third of the time in close comabt, and will barely scratch the enemy's shield with pathetic damage from the sniper spot where all the other races' bs are sitting.
Missiles are fine. What are you talking about? So it takes a few seconds for the missiles to hit, so what? At least you know that they will hit.
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Amnika MonSulu
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:57:00 -
[15]
Reality is this....
Those that use lasers say they need to be fixed.
Those that don't use lasers, but LOVE discovering prey that have lasers equipped say they are fine.
As the ratio of predators to prey is about 498374791 to 1, they will never have a major fix, just slight adjustments to insure the 1 keeps entertaining the masses. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
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CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:59:00 -
[16]
Lasers are very powerful. Amarr ships always come in a close second to the highest DPS ships in game, such as a Zealot and Deimos, Geddon and Megathron, Retribution and Enyo.
For this alone, I think lasers are overpowered and need to be nerfed. Blasters are supposed to be the most powerful weapon of it's class, requiring such close ranges as a draw back. Pulse Lasers are "Medium Range" weapons, and almost get near Blaster damage WITHOUT the range draw back. Lasers need to be nerfed.
If you are having issues with your lasers, you probably need to train up some more Gunnery skills. They certainly aren't hurting and infact, some of the lasers got a tracking boost during the last patch. Level 5 Rapid Fire for one, lasers' DPS comes primarily from RoF and much less in the nature of one hit. Just because you see hits for 15 or 30 hp damage, remember, you're hitting three or four times for every one time for any other turret.
As for the capacitor use. Amarr has the best tanks, so as a draw back, their weapon systems must be cap hungry permitting other races to deploy some kind of tactic to "break" an Amarr tank. You can fit up a Maller to tank considerable damage from a gank Deimos, which I think is ridiculous but it can be done. So with your awesome tank, comes the draw back of having to manage your cap to use your weapons and tank. Otherwise, Amarr would be ridiculously and obviously overpowered.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:01:00 -
[17]
lasers deal the most raw dps. so when it comes to omni-tanks (meaning 70% all around resistances) they deal the most damage. hell the new t3 ammar battleship doesn't more dps with long range weapons than any other battleships with long range weapons.
ignoring drones I suppose. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
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Wayward Hooligan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CherniyVolk Lasers are very powerful. Amarr ships always come in a close second to the highest DPS ships in game, such as a Zealot and Deimos, Geddon and Megathron, Retribution and Enyo.
For this alone, I think lasers are overpowered and need to be nerfed. Blasters are supposed to be the most powerful weapon of it's class, requiring such close ranges as a draw back. Pulse Lasers are "Medium Range" weapons, and almost get near Blaster damage WITHOUT the range draw back. Lasers need to be nerfed.
If you are having issues with your lasers, you probably need to train up some more Gunnery skills. They certainly aren't hurting and infact, some of the lasers got a tracking boost during the last patch. Level 5 Rapid Fire for one, lasers' DPS comes primarily from RoF and much less in the nature of one hit. Just because you see hits for 15 or 30 hp damage, remember, you're hitting three or four times for every one time for any other turret.
As for the capacitor use. Amarr has the best tanks, so as a draw back, their weapon systems must be cap hungry permitting other races to deploy some kind of tactic to "break" an Amarr tank. You can fit up a Maller to tank considerable damage from a gank Deimos, which I think is ridiculous but it can be done. So with your awesome tank, comes the draw back of having to manage your cap to use your weapons and tank. Otherwise, Amarr would be ridiculously and obviously overpowered.
Stop trolling.
Troll.
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:14:00 -
[19]
The capacitor honestly isn't a problem (see my sig), and this will only get better after the nos nerf. Tracking isn't really a problem either, lasers aren't really meant for short-range, and the tracking bonus to pulses in Rev 2 helped a lot with short-to-medium range. I'd say the #1 problem with lasers right now are their horrible fitting requirements, which the devs did say they are looking at. The #2 problem is damage types, but that's significantly harder to fix.
Honestly, though, I don't think lasers are as badly off as people seem to think. So, let's wait until after Rev 2.2 hits, see how the nos nerf affects lasers, and then resume whining if we still need boosting. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Jonny Magellan
Amarr Edyta Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jonny Magellan on 08/08/2007 20:35:42 As a newb frigate user never bothered with beams as they are are impossible to fit, even though I ve got eng V already and weapon upg to IV. T1 is impossible to fit cant even see any point training to t2. Lower PG by 15% and cap usage a bit.
EDIT: Or then just increase a tad more amarr ships powergrid *drool*
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Rialtor
Amarr TANDBERG Initiative
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Posted - 2007.08.08 21:04:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rialtor on 08/08/2007 21:08:11
Blaster are suppose to be the most powerful? But I thought Amarr was suppose to be the turrent race, shouldn't they have the best guns?
But I agree with you in that you can't really boost amarr dmg, and reduce their cap use without getting into the dreaded Tank/Mage law of these MMOs.
so we need some kind of bane, and that bane is either gonna be low dmg, or fast draining cap.
Personally as a fix, I think we should get more diverse Crystals, Explosive dmg types should be added, a crystal that does mostly therm should be added.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.08 21:08:00 -
[22]
Actually one thing i suggested on another thread(gods i say that alot these days), is that lasers(or lasers on Amarr ships rather) would be given an option to direct damage turrets.
Most, if not all, Amarr crystals cause heat. Heat is the thing that makes modules go pop. Add "target (option) modules" to Amarr turrets. Presto! You've got a new role for the Amarr
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 21:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo The capacitor honestly isn't a problem (see my sig), and this will only get better after the nos nerf. Tracking isn't really a problem either, lasers aren't really meant for short-range, and the tracking bonus to pulses in Rev 2 helped a lot with short-to-medium range. I'd say the #1 problem with lasers right now are their horrible fitting requirements, which the devs did say they are looking at. The #2 problem is damage types, but that's significantly harder to fix.
Honestly, though, I don't think lasers are as badly off as people seem to think. So, let's wait until after Rev 2.2 hits, see how the nos nerf affects lasers, and then resume whining if we still need boosting.
exactly.
the greatest problem of lasers is not the damage, but the fact that you simply can't fit them on ships. Shaving off 5 to 10% grid reqs on the turrets and the problem would be solved.
Originally by: Rialtor Edited by: Rialtor on 08/08/2007 21:08:11
Blaster are suppose to be the most powerful? But I thought Amarr was suppose to be the turrent race, shouldn't they have the best guns?
But I agree with you in that you can't really boost amarr dmg, and reduce their cap use without getting into the dreaded Tank/Mage law of these MMOs.
so we need some kind of bane, and that bane is either gonna be low dmg, or fast draining cap.
Personally as a fix, I think we should get more diverse Crystals, Explosive dmg types should be added, a crystal that does mostly therm should be added.
blasters are not that great. they are also restricted to 2 types of damage, altho it's not that noticieable. sure they do have amazing damage, but to make them work you need to go to web range, which means that they are not that flexible of a weapon system.
Pulses on the other hand are different. lower tracking of the shorter range guns? sure, but they have range that far exceeds the blaster range, which makes them a much more flexible gun. ---
truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
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ForumPosterAlt
HERRO KITTY
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Posted - 2007.08.08 21:43:00 -
[24]
Step 1: Boost the laser capacitor usage bonuses on all ships that have the bonus from 10% per level to 15% per level.
Step 2: Add a 7.5% per level bonus for laser capacitor usage to any ship that doesn't have a laser capacitor usage bonus yet has other laser bonuses.
Done. Fixed. Overdue.
Because posting on the forums is serious business. |
Kathryn Sakai
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Posted - 2007.08.08 22:28:00 -
[25]
The powergrid issues are huge. I have adv upgrades lvl 4 and about the only 2 ships I can fit decent damage T2 guns onto atm are the Retribution and Zealot, both ships are useless for solo PvP. All the others I am forced to use much softer versions and am left with tons of spare grid. Why do I need 2 Powergrid modules to fit 6 T1 Tachyons on an Armageddon, then after about 30 seconds of firing I'm down to 20% cap.
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Gawain Edmond
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Posted - 2007.08.08 22:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lydia Browm Edited by: Lydia Browm on 08/08/2007 19:40:32 Hi you don't know me but i have been discussing some issues about lasers with my corp and here are some of the suggestions i came up with.
Lasers right now suck too much capacitor and they have dodgy range .
I came up with a few suggestions maybe 1 or 2 or perhaps even all of them could be implemented obviously adjusted for balance reasons.
First of i think the base capacitor usage of lasers needs to be reduced, for the simple reason not many amarr ships have the slots needed for a mwd / ab, web, scram and a cap booster. So it is dificult to keep your guns going with natural recharge in gank mode, let alone once you have fitted a tank.
Another soloution i don't know how well this work is: Increase the base damage mod? So they get more damage for there cap? Perhaps increase damage mod and reduce rof? So they get same dps??? But use less cap (i have not done any math just i need to make some amarr stuff even tho i am not amarr but i am fed up of caldari whines)
Another soloution: Increase tracking and reduce the cap slightly.
Please add to this thread, just snap out ideas and see where we get :)
ok i didn't read the rest of the thread so i'll not comment on what other people have said but i'm amarr i fly only amarr have 16mill sp in amarr nearlt 6mill in gunnery (large turrets level 4 and no cross training of weapons) i love amarr but here is my opion on your ideas;
1) yes IF the cap bonus is removed from amarr ships that have the laser cap reduction bonus although this might unbalance the abaddon some how since i asume they took into account the cap use of lasers when they made it
2) no. if you want a higher damage mod and slower rof then use projectiles, this would also become even more unbalanced if option 1 is used someone else can do the math i just don't like the idea
3) tracking isnt a problem it wasnt a problem on pulse lasers before they gave them a 25% boost to tracking and now it's less of a none problem on pulse lasers, beams have the best tracking of the long range weapons again a cap reduction here if used with either or both of 1 and 2 would be unbalanced
i like lasers lasers rock if that new mass addition mod gets into the game then i'll possibly even be able to keep range for a while with my pulse lasers hell am more than happy to sit at about 19km from someone with my pulse and rip them apart
the whole em thermal thing would be nice if it was switched around or if they added em to shields and took it from armor not alot just a lil bit. No i don't want explosive crystals.
heavyy pulse II 231grid 35 cpu, 13.33cap per shot, rof 5.25, 16km range (12km optimal 4km falloff), damage mod 3.6, tracking 0.065
neutron II 212grid 35cpu, 6.069 cap per shot, rof 5.25, 8.6km range (3.6km optimal 5km falloff), damage mod 4.2, tracking 0.1
up laser damage a little, keep tracking the same or get rid of that pointless 25% boost. If it's in web range both ships are webbed a transversal of 10m/s makes little difference. Keep the ship bonus for laser cap use for all i care, but make the cap use justified to start with. Using more than double the cap for an extra 8km and less damage? *wants some of what the devs smoke*
and before anyone says anything no you don't compare heavy pulse to ions or electrons that's just stupid if amarr got a gun that was more difficult to fit than a heavy pulse then it'd be called a "mega pulse type thing"
remember range dosent mean a thing if you have no viable way of keeping range as pretty much any ship can out run pretty much all amarr ships (yes i admit some of our ships are not the slowest in the game but i'm not talking about each ship on it's own i'm talking amarr in general)
p.s. wow i used nearly all the letters alowed to me :D
read the bible people the end is coming...
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 23:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: twit brent on 08/08/2007 23:21:17
Originally by: CherniyVolk Lasers are very powerful. Amarr ships always come in a close second to the highest DPS ships in game, such as a Zealot and Deimos, Geddon and Megathron, Retribution and Enyo.
For this alone, I think lasers are overpowered and need to be nerfed. Blasters are supposed to be the most powerful weapon of it's class, requiring such close ranges as a draw back. Pulse Lasers are "Medium Range" weapons, and almost get near Blaster damage WITHOUT the range draw back. Lasers need to be nerfed.
If you are having issues with your lasers, you probably need to train up some more Gunnery skills. They certainly aren't hurting and infact, some of the lasers got a tracking boost during the last patch. Level 5 Rapid Fire for one, lasers' DPS comes primarily from RoF and much less in the nature of one hit. Just because you see hits for 15 or 30 hp damage, remember, you're hitting three or four times for every one time for any other turret.
As for the capacitor use. Amarr has the best tanks, so as a draw back, their weapon systems must be cap hungry permitting other races to deploy some kind of tactic to "break" an Amarr tank. You can fit up a Maller to tank considerable damage from a gank Deimos, which I think is ridiculous but it can be done. So with your awesome tank, comes the draw back of having to manage your cap to use your weapons and tank. Otherwise, Amarr would be ridiculously and obviously overpowered.
Actually the zealot is one of the weaker HAC's when it comes to DPS. Also I think its the only HAC whose damabe drops to ZERO when its nossed. Also only HAC limited to only 2 dmg types.
My abaddon just firing its tachyons uses more cap than an XL shield booster tanking raven does all up. I have every Gunnery skill at lvl 5!
Edit: Typo
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2007.08.08 23:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CherniyVolk *snip* As for the capacitor use. Amarr has the best tanks, so as a draw back, their weapon systems must be cap hungry permitting other races to deploy some kind of tactic to "break" an Amarr tank. You can fit up a Maller to tank considerable damage from a gank Deimos, which I think is ridiculous but it can be done. So with your awesome tank, comes the draw back of having to manage your cap to use your weapons and tank. Otherwise, Amarr would be ridiculously and obviously overpowered.
ofcause what you don't mention is that with these uber tanks you can't acctually fit lasers on the ship so it becomes a mute point (might be able to fit focused pulse but if you do that you'll do more damage with projectiles and not to mention that T1 tank ships don't have a damage bonus to lasers abaddon is the only exception and T2 ships with a tank bonus and a damage bonus just aint as good as the gank version)
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goomba freehand
A Black Knight Corp FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 23:58:00 -
[29]
I think lasers are fine where they are at they have great tracking great rof and a empty cargo hold and what is the down side it uses cap. oh wait thats why people use cap injectors. lets not forget that gallente also use cap and depending on what ammo is how much cap is used and yet no one complains.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.09 00:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: goomba freehand I think lasers are fine where they are at they have great tracking great rof and a empty cargo hold and what is the down side it uses cap. oh wait thats why people use cap injectors. lets not forget that gallente also use cap and depending on what ammo is how much cap is used and yet no one complains.
I can see you dont use lasers
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