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Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.10 03:31:00 - [61] laughing Yes, Americans all have the right to own and bear arms. Its funny to see people say that they want the ability to defend themselves, and have enough weaponry in their home to outfit their entire town. Personally, I have a single handgun. I've had it for years, its kept in good shape, easily accessible, and should the need arise to use it, its there. I just think having a multitude of guns in your house is a bit much. =p
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.08.10 03:48:00 - [62] Edited by: smashsmash on 10/08/2007 03:50:03 i think we might need a new government if we got to the point where we were actually afraid of being taken over by it. oh and here is my counter argument to all gun-haters. Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius Originally by: Imperator Jora'h As for the US Constitution in allowing firearms it says, in the same sentence the "right" is granted that it is for the purposes of a "well regulated militia". Where is the militia in all this (not to mention a regulated one)? That means that the citizens have the right to keep arms to protect themselves from that well regulated milita. As long as we have an army there is an imminant risk that a General (Caesar or Napolean for example) will use the army to seize power. It has happened hundreds of times throughout history.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:33:00 - [63] I believe The Onion has an interesting take on the debate. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Rilder Caldari THC LTD	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:41:00 - [64] Guns are cool and all but I'd rather keep a collection of swords, personally. Visit my blog =)http://rilderslog.blogspot.com/
LVSOCOM Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:55:00 - [65] Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:59 Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:17 Worthless without pics. My AR15 I think I've shared this pic a few times AK I built Semi auto East German AK (Notice .308 case on the charging handle? ) NOW SHARE
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.10 05:57:00 - [66] Originally by: LVSOCOM Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:59 Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:17 Worthless without pics. My AR15 I think I've shared this pic a few times AK I built Semi auto East German AK (Notice .308 case on the charging handle? ) NOW SHARE See? Who needs those things? Seems to me for home defense a pistol would be of much more use unless you expect hordes of home invaders at once. And for pistols why would anyone need a Desert Eagle or other such hand cannons? I expect a .22 would suffice just fine. When most people get shot they pretty much stop and freak out...don't need to put a fist sized hole in them. Not to mention a .22 is easier to shoot and as such likely more accurate. For hunting a good old bolt action rifle or simple shotgun should do you fine (depending what you are hunting). A good bolt action rifle would probably be more accurate and have better range than those guns anyway. If you need to hose the animal you are hunting with bullets my guess is you are a poor hunter and need target practice. Seems to me, short of a battlefield, the weapons you pictured have little use beyond ego boosting.
Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:21:00 - [67] Originally by: Curzon Dax Yes, Americans all have the right to own and bear arms. Its funny to see people say that they want the ability to defend themselves, and have enough weaponry in their home to outfit their entire town. Personally, I have a single handgun. I've had it for years, its kept in good shape, easily accessible, and should the need arise to use it, its there. I just think having a multitude of guns in your house is a bit much. =p My dad collects guns as if they were art (and from his point of view they kinda are) and he enjoys shooting. Its his hobby. He loads his own ammo, plays with different sights and optics, and other crap like that. ------
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:48:00 - [68] Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius On a related note my brother just bought a FN P90 ....and I don't see why that would be scary. Heh, I find it funny how the sellers rename assault rifles and submachine guns 'defense weapon'. Caldari and proud
Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.08.10 07:40:00 - [69] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Tarquin Tarquinius On a related note my brother just bought a FN P90 ....and I don't see why that would be scary. Heh, I find it funny how the sellers rename assault rifles and submachine guns 'defense weapon'. A PDW (personnel defense weapon) is a class of weapon. Its a NATO designation. Its basically a cross between an assault rifle and sub-machine gun...or a sub-machine gun that fires a very very small rifle round. ------
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:19:00 - [70] Hey there! Yes I know all of that, but those type of weapons are made for offense Caldari and proud
LVSOCOM Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.10 09:32:00 - [71] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: LVSOCOM Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:59 Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:17 Worthless without pics. My AR15 I think I've shared this pic a few times AK I built Semi auto East German AK (Notice .308 case on the charging handle? ) NOW SHARE See? Who needs those things? Seems to me for home defense a pistol would be of much more use unless you expect hordes of home invaders at once. And for pistols why would anyone need a Desert Eagle or other such hand cannons? I expect a .22 would suffice just fine. When most people get shot they pretty much stop and freak out...don't need to put a fist sized hole in them. Not to mention a .22 is easier to shoot and as such likely more accurate. For hunting a good old bolt action rifle or simple shotgun should do you fine (depending what you are hunting). A good bolt action rifle would probably be more accurate and have better range than those guns anyway. If you need to hose the animal you are hunting with bullets my guess is you are a poor hunter and need target practice. Seems to me, short of a battlefield, the weapons you pictured have little use beyond ego boosting. First off, your knowledge of ballistics is extremely poor. Second your knowledge of firearms overall is almost as poor. Let me help you a bit... As a matter of fact, I have a concealed weapons permit and I DO carry a variety of different handguns (depending on weather, since some are harder to conceal in summer clothes then others). However, a .22 is NOT a good self defense weapon. It is better then NO gun, but not by much. Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. A .22 would be even worse. The 1911 and its .45ACP round is however. The 9mm can be with quality (non ball; hollow point) defensive ammunition. Personally, I carry a 9mm mostly (Glock19 if you care). Basically, small pistol calibers fail to make wounds that impact the target immediately (this doesn't exactly mean kill, this means end the threat the perp poses to your life) rather then cause wounds cause conditions that lead to death or incapacitation slower (while they are still attacking you). The AR15 shown is probably about as accurate at 100-300m as most deer rifles. While not packing the punch and velocity needed to reach longer ranges as say a .308, .270WIN, or 30.06-- it is still infact capable of being used to hunt smaller game. This is usually referred to as "varmiting"-- which is nice way of saying pest control. The AK is for fun. It is fairly accurate (4" @ 100 yards) and is considerably less leathal per round then most "deer guns." Most of my rifles are for fun. They are pretty fun to go to the range to "play" with or even to get invovled in organized shooting matches. BUT in a serious situation (as unlikely as it would be for me), it is definetely better to have them and not need them rather then need them and have to go looking to get one. Espically when they are safely nestled inside a several thousand pound safe. If I, the law abiding enthousiast/sportsman, cannot own something I intend to break no laws in owning and take reasonable actions to sa***uard from falling into criminal hands... Then this society has pretty much lost its mind.
Ryan Scouse'UK Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:39:00 - [72] Originally by: Curzon Dax laughing Yes, Americans all have the right to own and bear arms. Its funny to see people say that they want the ability to defend themselves, and have enough weaponry in their home to outfit their entire town. Personally, I have a single handgun. I've had it for years, its kept in good shape, easily accessible, and should the need arise to use it, its there. I just think having a multitude of guns in your house is a bit much. =p in the UK were not aloud guns sadly!! :( only the bad people have guns .. whats up with that? But hey lookin at those slide shows.. people have snipers.. I mean WTF? .. the guy breaks into ur house ur gona snipe him from close range? .
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:21:00 - [73] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Ugh...don't get me started (ok, you did). The most common refrain you hear in those clips are people wanting the ability to defend themselves. If you look at the statistics you find that guns in a home cause more injury (via accidents, your child flips and nukes the family, dad catches mom in bed with another guy, burglar finds the weapon and uses it on owner...the list goes on). I'm a US citizen and I have friends that are die-hard gun owners. I just do not get it. The ones I know who own guns are good people and not the sort you'd expect to have a gun and despite generally seeing eye-to-eye with them on most issues they, like every other gun owner I have met, are fanatical about keeping them. As for the US Constitution in allowing firearms it says, in the same sentence the "right" is granted that it is for the purposes of a "well regulated militia". Where is the militia in all this (not to mention a regulated one)? And hunters...well I try to keep an open mind but every time I think about it this scene from My Cousin Vinny pops into my head. Actually thats very much false. First off, suicide is thrown in with "gun related deaths" so the statistic is horribly skewed to begin with. Additionally, gang related death is also thrown in there. So when you look at the actual honest to God accident or death ratio its pretty low. Also, firearms were used almost 2 million times last year or the year before to defend life and property. Are you telling me there was more then 2 million cases of injury due to a gun in the home? I doubt it. Please, EDUCATE yourself on the issue and dont just pass on the mindless drivel you hear from the Brady Bunch.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:17:00 - [74] Originally by: LVSOCOM Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:59 Edited by: LVSOCOM on 10/08/2007 04:56:17 Worthless without pics. My AR15 I think I've shared this pic a few times AK I built Semi auto East German AK (Notice .308 case on the charging handle? ) NOW SHARE here's my home defence setup. i've gone for a mix of long and short range ordinance, and find this particularly versatile when fighting off groups of seven or more heavilly armed attackers.
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:31:00 - [75] Theres a pic of me and my AK when I bought it back in either '99 or 2000. Aside from that I never really have a camera around when I go shooting. And I saw a post about collecting swords too. I love em. I've got a bastard sword with a gargoyle face in the hilt myself. My father has 2 japanese officers swords my grandpa brought back from WW2. Unfortunatly my dad and my uncle as kids like to swordfight and they have tons of nicks in them now. I also collect knives. Have both of the fossil hunter knives, about 4 oriental blades, my pocket knife is unique in itself, 2 throwing stars, and a pistol crossbow (one of those $20 ones you can get at army/navy) ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.10 17:31:00 - [76] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Theres a pic of me and my AK when I bought it back in either '99 or 2000. Aside from that I never really have a camera around when I go shooting. And I saw a post about collecting swords too. I love em. I've got a bastard sword with a gargoyle face in the hilt myself. My father has 2 japanese officers swords my grandpa brought back from WW2. Unfortunatly my dad and my uncle as kids like to swordfight and they have tons of nicks in them now. I also collect knives. Have both of the fossil hunter knives, about 4 oriental blades, my pocket knife is unique in itself, 2 throwing stars, and a pistol crossbow (one of those $20 ones you can get at army/navy) I think your holes have jeans in them...
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.10 17:34:00 - [77] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Theres a pic of me and my AK when I bought it back in either '99 or 2000. Aside from that I never really have a camera around when I go shooting. And I saw a post about collecting swords too. I love em. I've got a bastard sword with a gargoyle face in the hilt myself. My father has 2 japanese officers swords my grandpa brought back from WW2. Unfortunatly my dad and my uncle as kids like to swordfight and they have tons of nicks in them now. I also collect knives. Have both of the fossil hunter knives, about 4 oriental blades, my pocket knife is unique in itself, 2 throwing stars, and a pistol crossbow (one of those $20 ones you can get at army/navy) I think your holes have jeans in them... Ventilation mon! I'm in the middle of the desert there. And if that doesn't work can I use 'remember the 80's'? ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Grentho Caldari Wook Recon	Posted - 2007.08.10 19:24:00 - [78] yes all Americans do ha have the right to bear arms you all just got confused Bear arms
Belloc Slunv Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:22:00 - [79] Let me explain my background before I start going off on my subject of a rant. I am a 20 year old American in the United States Air Force. I was born and raised in Michigan, and I am a proud member of the National Rifle Association. I've been raised around firearms all of my life, and enjoy them. Now, that said, Military grade weapons are just that. Military grade. Not for consumption by the general populous. The ONLY military weapon I will ever own is an m1 grande rifle from ww2. In my families collection we have many revolvers, semi automatic handguns, rifles, and a couple of shotguns. I am a responsible person who treats every firearm as loaded and expect everyone else to treat them that way. I belive that everyone should have background checks performed with the purchase of any firearm, and they should have proper training to use said firearm. They are not toys, they are tools. And as any tool, if they are used for the wrong purpose they are extremelly deadly. I belive that most violent crimes are not commited by law-abiding firearm owners, but by people who would have access to the firearms weather or not they were available to the general populace. Thus said, I do not belive that firearms should be outlawed or banned by the government. If you do that, three types of people will have firearms. Cops, Criminals, and Crooked Cops. Not a good situtation. I doubt law-abiding firearm owners are likely to commit such crimes as murder by finding their spouses with another person, or by a fool on the road. This may seem more rampant than it does due to the media. Also, laws are instated and made extremelly clear that if you have a concealed weapon permit that you CANNOT carry a concealed weapon into an establishment that claims alchohol as it's primary income revenue. There are also other laws that state other places you can carry, such as not being allowed to carry in any governmental building (City, State, or Federal) or any crowd over 2000? people. In short: Firearms are tools, and should be treated as such. Proper training is needed, and not everyone should be able to own them. Only law abiding citizens. These statements are based on Michigan laws for concealed weapons permits, and may not be completely true as I don't have the time to research all of the required information.
Belloc Slunv Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:25:00 - [80] Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;)
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;) i heard it was because it didn't look macho enough.
Belloc Slunv Amarr Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:32:00 - [82] Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;) i heard it was because it didn't look macho enough. .357 mag is the same caliber as a .38. It just so happens that the .357mag is a longer case to fit more powder.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:17:00 - [83] Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;) i heard it was because it didn't look macho enough. .357 mag is the same caliber as a .38. It just so happens that the .357mag is a longer case to fit more powder. I thought the .38 webley's had great stopping power, or did I get fed the wrong information?
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:28:00 - [84] back in the day they let me carry fighting knifes onto airplanes. those evil liberal knife haters had to go ruin that. now i'm too scared to fly anymore because there might be some terrorist with a knife in the seat next to me that i can't protect myself against.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:42:00 - [85] Originally by: smashsmash back in the day they let me carry fighting knifes onto airplanes. those evil liberal knife haters had to go ruin that. now i'm too scared to fly anymore because there might be some terrorist with a knife in the seat next to me that i can't protect myself against. Its not a knife, its a potato peeler you woman.
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:56:00 - [86] Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;) couldn't penetrate windows? A pellet gun can penetrate windows. Hell a thrown rock can penetrate windows. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Epoch	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:17:00 - [87] Edited by: Epoch on 10/08/2007 22:17:11 Originally by: ry ry Originally by: Belloc Slunv Originally by: LVSOCOM Ever wonder why most police and the military stopped carrying .38 caliber revolvers? Thats right-- it wasn't an effective man stopper. afaik the .38 was discountinued because it couldn't penetrate through windows as well as a .357 mag ;) i heard it was because it didn't look macho enough. I like that AR-15 LVSOCOM posted a pic of. I would never personally own one (my Five-SeveN is enough), but its still a nice looking weapon.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:20:00 - [88] Would a homemade railgun fall under traditional gun control laws? ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Tarminic Would a homemade railgun fall under traditional gun control laws? Railguns are very inefficient when compared to chemical-based propellant weapons. The only operable variants are mounted on battleships. Its simply impossible to induce a high enough magnetic field at room temperature to make a projectile fly at 1200 - 1500 ft/s.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:28:00 - [90] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Tarminic Would a homemade railgun fall under traditional gun control laws? Railguns are very inefficient when compared to chemical-based propellant weapons. The only operable variants are mounted on battleships. Its simply impossible to induce a high enough magnetic field at room temperature to make a projectile fly at 1200 - 1500 ft/s. Well, you can, it just requires plugging yourself into a fairly large generator and the rails melt after every shot, which limits their portability given standard materials available to civilians. The Navy has been testing them for several years and last I heard (from a Popular Science article a year or two ago) they will be putting 30mm railguns on a new patrol boat that will go into service at around 2012. Larger versions will be retrofitted onto battleships and aircraft carriers later. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare.

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