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Question about war dec's, possible exploit? And possible change :)

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Entreri Finwe Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:18:00 - [31] Originally by: Major Stallion and as for the rest of this post....WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA CCP WE'VE BEEN WAR DEC'D TELL THEMEAN MR PRIVATEERS TO STOP IT Dude, they already nerfed wars once, get over it. War is meant to be underhanded, and dirty. So if PA is saving 150mil a week to war dec you, and you dont really care (or at least you claim not to, after all if you hadnt cared, youd not have posted)then stfu about it. Did you even read the op? She's asking why they are letting their war run out and then restart it, I don't read any waambulance text in it... Originally by: jarack I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Entreri Finwe Originally by: Major Stallion and as for the rest of this post....WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA CCP WE'VE BEEN WAR DEC'D TELL THEMEAN MR PRIVATEERS TO STOP IT Dude, they already nerfed wars once, get over it. War is meant to be underhanded, and dirty. So if PA is saving 150mil a week to war dec you, and you dont really care (or at least you claim not to, after all if you hadnt cared, youd not have posted)then stfu about it. Did you even read the op? She's asking why they are letting their war run out and then restart it, I don't read any waambulance text in it... I read the OP quite fine. (S)He is crying because Privateers are taking advantage of a game mechanic. Letting the war run out and then re-declaring. Theres nothing wrong with it. They arent exploiting any game mechanic here. Rather than keeping the war up and paying more money per week, they figure they can live with a 24 (or 48) hour time between attacking targets. Again, my question here is, if the OP doesnt care, and never goes to empire, and really doesnt have any problems with whats going on, then why post? Or did you not read ANY of MY posts? =) ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive Animal.	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:33:00 - [33] Someone said Privateers are still moving - kick 'em again!
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:55:00 - [34] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 09/08/2007 15:04:14 Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 09/08/2007 14:57:30 Quote: I read the OP quite fine. (S)He is crying because Privateers are taking advantage of a game mechanic. Letting the war run out and then re-declaring. Theres nothing wrong with it. They arent exploiting any game mechanic here. Rather than keeping the war up and paying more money per week, they figure they can live with a 24 (or 48) hour time between attacking targets. Again, my question here is, if the OP doesnt care, and never goes to empire, and really doesnt have any problems with whats going on, then why post? Or did you not read ANY of MY posts? =) The OP isn't crying. The OP spoke up because the privateers - and other corps - shouldn't have to pay more than the opening fees to keep a war going. I don't remember seeing the OP say any of the following (which would have been whining) : - stop it ! - raise the price of wardecs ! - I'm being picked upon ! - nerf privateers ! What you're reading in the OP thread seem to be wildly different to what is written there though. Actually, after reading the OP, my feeling is that he or she could even propose to reduce the price for ongoing wars... -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 09/08/2007 14:57:30 Quote: I read the OP quite fine. (S)He is crying because Privateers are taking advantage of a game mechanic. Letting the war run out and then re-declaring. Theres nothing wrong with it. They arent exploiting any game mechanic here. Rather than keeping the war up and paying more money per week, they figure they can live with a 24 (or 48) hour time between attacking targets. Again, my question here is, if the OP doesnt care, and never goes to empire, and really doesnt have any problems with whats going on, then why post? Or did you not read ANY of MY posts? =) The OP isn't crying. The OP spoke up because the privateers - and other corps - shouldn't have to pay more than the opening fees to keep a war going. I don't remember seeing the OP say any of the following (which would have been shining) : - stop it ! - raise the price of wardecs ! - I'm being picked upon ! - nerf privateers ! What you're reading in the OP thread seem to be wildly different to what is written there though. Actually, after reading the OP, my feeling is that he or she could even propose to reduce the price for ongoing wars... lets decode the OP, and then i'll see if your "hes sugesting that wars should be cheaper" theory makes ANY sense. Originally by: Miss Power Yet they still continue their grieving in empire. does that seem like he wants to make life EASIER on PA? Originally by: Miss Power As such they let the war get invalidated for a day and war dec the same alliances at a lower cost. Essentially saving 150m isk, but not only that they circumvent game mechanics for their own goal (which is essentially what exploit means). hmmmm, this sounds like a complaint about an "exploit" (which there is no exploit, because they arent doing anything illegal), unless im reading something severely incorrect here. Originally by: Miss Power This seems like a flaw in the war dec procedure and I doubt its what CCP had in mind. A solution to this would be the following, the starting cost of a war should be changed. The first war should still cost 50m, the second however 150m and the third should cost 250m. Then after a week all three should cost 150m to maintain. That way theres no longer an exploit for 'cheaper' wars and no annoying "the war has been invalidated" eve-mails as the upkeep of the war is the same cost as to start it. Yeh i think calling for more expensive wars is ABSOLUTELY without a shadow of a doubt, calling for cheaper war dec fees. So yes, the OP is calling for yet another nerf to the privateers. Jesus christ, just because the Privateers operates on empire wars, doesnt mean we should nerf them. Lets think about this, if someone came in to your cute little 0.0 alliance and said "hey lets nerf their asteroid belts and their belt rats, so they cant operate the way theyre used to" how would you feel? PA have seriously been nerfed beyond belief, and theres still some people calling for them to be put out of commission forever. Let them be, if they can afford the wars, DEAL WITH IT. Stop with the "OMG WE'VE BEEN WAR DEC'D BY PA, WHY DONT THEY LIKE US?!" garbage. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Miss Power	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:27:00 - [36] After thinking about it in the car drive home, the outcome could actually be cheaper war dec's. It could however also cause war decs to have the same initial cost as they now have to keep them going. It could swing either way, however its a flaw in the war dec system that they currently are different. As for my remark about calling them grievers, how else would you classify them? They pray on the weak, nothing more nothing less. They will dock up if they end up fighting a 'fair' fight. The fun part is, I doubt if I call Privateers grievers they would think thats a bad thing. I'd personally think they'd see it as a compliment. Its what they do and if they find that fun, more power to them. Whatever alliance I'm in doesn't change the question (and fact) at hand that there's a discrepancy in the war dec system that is currently being exploited by Privateers (and probably other 'empire pirate' corps). I also doubt any change would stop Privateers from war dec'ing us or other alliances. I'll say it again (in bold just to help Major Stallion read): Whatever alliance I am in doesnt matter as the fact at hand is that intially war dec'ing 3 alliances costs 300m while renewing those same 3 wars will cost 450m One of the two has to change, and I'd say its up to CCP to decide which one.
Yagyu Retsudo Yagyu Holdings	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Miss Power I have no doubt that they might have been hired to war dec our alliance neither do I care WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA. Fact is that CCP changed the WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA. WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAAWAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA. Using flaws in game mechanics for profit or gain is WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA WAA. Translation: I lost something and I am mad. CCP, I can't find anything to complain about that would get PA in trouble but I am going to petition these 'griefers' anyway.
Miss Power	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Translation: I lost something and I am mad. CCP, I can't find anything to complain about that would get PA in trouble but I am going to petition these 'griefers' anyway. You do know any change to the cost of wars will not disallow them war dec'ing ? So -if- I did lose so much (as you say) then how does this thread make sense?
Inapropriate Conduct	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Miss Power Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Translation: I lost something and I am mad. CCP, I can't find anything to complain about that would get PA in trouble but I am going to petition these 'griefers' anyway. You do know any change to the cost of wars will not disallow them war dec'ing ? So -if- I did lose so much (as you say) then how does this thread make sense? You're dealing with the internet, reading comprehension not required.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:47:00 - [40] Gosh... 'Alliance P' trying to save money after the wardec changes were made pretty much only for them... Shocking. After all the screaming and hollering that got the initial changes made, this is like one small bone that fell off the table and was overlooked. Bad Alliance P, Bad! Give that bone back! ------------------- Must read player written Eve fiction.
Eric Watson Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:47:00 - [41] EVE is a game made by griefers for griefers. But the weird thing is that people who exploit game mechanics seem to get offended when you call them exploiters.....go figure.
Master Spoonman Enclave Services	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:06:00 - [42] Current situation: 1) Corp A wardecs Corps B, C, and D 2) After 7 days, Corp A does not renew the wardecs to save money. 3) 24 hours later, Corp A redecs B, C, and D again, saving 150 million. A better solution would be: 1) Corp A wardecs Corps B, C, and D 2) After 7 days, Corp A does not renew the wardecs to save money. 3) Since Corp A did not renew the wardecs, it takes an additional 7 days to activate a new war between Corp A and either B, C, or D. (ie. punish them for trying to get around game mechanics by preventing them from wardeccing for another week.) *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me
Tommy TenKreds Caldari Animal.	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Eric Watson EVE is a game made by griefers for griefers. WTF?
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.08.09 17:50:00 - [44] Un.... Believable Months after CCP debased themselves for their 30 pieces of silver, defacing the 'ethos' of eve - making a mockery of all their sneering public proclamtions (its not hello kitty online you know) in response to multi alt carebear forum whines, we have.... a carebear alt forum whine. Wranglers oft quoted "cold hard universe" was conclusivly proven to be about as cold and hard as a slap in the face with a babywipe. I just hope the DEVS are happy chowing down on their gourment sandwiches in their luxury mountain top work pod environment - and their contradictary statements and that niggling feeling they have sacrificed their origninal vision in exchange for a unproven few new subscriptions dont disturb their digestion too much. The privateers were accused of many fiddles on the war dec system - all conclusively disproven 1) Starting a corp war then getting the corp to join the alliance for the cheap corp war price? FALSE 2) Starting a war then immediatly stopping it to get an insta war. FALSE Now the tame sell out bodge CCP enacted SPECIFICALLY AND MALISCIOUSLY TO NERF ONE ALLIANCE (the only time ccp have ever done this btw) is under critiscism. It hardly game breaking - if it works out cheaper then good on them. I think from my recollection in the last days I was a member - that the cost to continue the war dosent suddenly drop as you suggested. Even if it did - I guess the 24 hours freedom from war you get would be the compensation for the paltry isk reduction. It stinks Roleplay wise. But then again so does the: "Concord got greedy and have upped the war dec fees" ...justification CCP hoisted on the game. (This despite the fact they now bring in billions of isk less per week in bribes) If you got a probelm with them getting a day off - then why not dec them yourselves? Thats the most frustrating thing about the whole Privateers debacle - unbeaten in game - crushed in some sweaty toilet room debate whilst washing hands. Oh and congratulations on using alts to move your stuff around empire. Thats really in the spirit of the game isnt it? Metagaming ftw. SKUNK BITTER ME? 275 podds post nerf in revenge. Originally by: Jeximo I also like how your cat only managed to hit the enter button when he/she jumped on your keyboard.
Ke Jung Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:04:00 - [45] I like this thread it is like old Privateer threads, very fun read. Banana Torres, she takes scalpel to anti-Privateer argument and makes fool of them. Then sticks scalpel in and turn it many times. Le Skunk, he jumps int feet and fist first, punch and kick all who are in way. Now we need Sorted, to be calms, reasonable and make others angry. Is good that Privateer not forgotten. Just sad I never was one.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:05:00 - [46] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 09/08/2007 18:07:53 Originally by: Miss Power And then someone explained why, the initial war dec of 3 alliances costs Privateers 50 + 100 + 150 = 300m isk. However the upkeep for those same wars is 150 + 150 + 150 = 450m isk, or 50% more. I would not concider this an exploit, but rather a work around to a bug. I figure that the upkeep on the war decs should be the same as the declaration costs. Thus the upkeep should be 50 + 100 + 150 = 300m isk, not 150 + 150 + 150 = 450m isk. Of course the challenge with fixing this bug has to do with the timing of when the war decs expire in ration to each other. As it is they have to drop all their war decs completely to get the lower cost of the war decs, they cannot have the war decs out of sync. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
Larla Rosethorn Minmatar Black Market Beagles	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:12:00 - [47] Main Entry: 2ex+ploit Pronunciation: ik-'sploit, 'ek-" Function: transitive verb 1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness> 2 : to make use of one's own advantage So you know the meaning of the term... Now, if the rules say you can "do this", "this way" how is it they are cheating? That is what you are really saying now isn't it? RANT ON! What? You sorry that them being nearly nerf'd to death did not kill them as you hoped you sniveling whiner. Like the last time this kind of thread popped up, they do not expoit any f'ing thing, they play by the rules you twit. They are mercs and pirates that choose to play by the allowed rules that the game provides. They are smart in how they do things, you fault them for that, you want them nerf'd (again) for that. Let me tell you something, unless they ban empire wars they will always be here...always... or someone like them. You hide in this alt post because you are a coward in game play. You want to mine, rat, or trade and ripoff as many people as you can as a carebear, the difference is you don't use a gun, you use a calculator. You make me sick, did you even read about this game at all? "Death comes to us all" it says that in the beginning of the game, thats why you by clones. NPC's don't pod so it must mean that players do it, odd ain't it? Empire is not safe, it is only safer, that is all. You want a safe little place so you can hose and scam as many people as you can to make billions of isk. I will bet your one of those that build ships and items, then charge the people who protect your lame self out the ***** to replace the losses they have keeping you safe. Disgusting! Go play WoW on the safe servers. Or just go away and leave the real gamers alone. I hope they Dec IAC for the next 6 months without a break. L
Bakhal Yttrites	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:38:00 - [48] Edited by: Bakhal Yttrites on 10/08/2007 04:39:11 Look, you are just looking for some way to avoid getting wardecced while using Empire as your safe little retreat. You admitted it in an earlier thread, that you get tired of having to deal with hunting for them as you ISK up between battles. But all you are doing is setting yourself up as a bigger target, and making those who have wardecced you even more determined to hunt you, and you alone, down and pod you if possible. Perhaps you are not an American and in your country there aren't loopholes. But I know that over here, there are loopholes in taxes, in laws, in everything to allow those who are in the know get away with all sorts of stuff. Obviously, this is one of those situations. War dec costs are bribes to CONCORD to allow otherwise illegal activity. There's apparently loopholes, just like with every other governmental plan I've ever heard about. It's there for anyone to take advantage of, if they know about it. Talk to any tax lawyer, he'll tell you just how easy it is to manipulate the system and find ways to cut how much you pay to the government. Looks like they did a bang up job at modeling real world governmental policies.
Igus Green Gecko Inc. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 05:16:00 - [49] in FLA we had the same thing happen to them, Seemingly the guy didn't want to pay the upkeep so the wardec was ended and restarted it a day or so later. -- Uhg, I think I need a flux capacitor
Petstretsi Zuborov	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:45:00 - [50] Edited by: Petstretsi Zuborov on 10/08/2007 06:51:25 You cheap little runt of a capsuleer. I've never flown with Privateers, but when they war-dec'd my corp and met me in battle in empire, I stood up to them and happened to have lost every engagement with at least a shred of dignity. I never complained, I never posted, I just tried to get revenge by training a better ship, to meet them on their terms - in the way my $15/month earns me the right to. You however, come here posting how you "use an alt to ship warez" from here to hither and cite Privateers for using an exploit in the war dec mechanics, then suggest that the mechanics are faulted because of a 50MM difference in letting the dec expire rather than continue it??? Be damned you to pirate hell I say, you and all your, "I'm not worth $5, but $10" street corner ilk you spawn from, whining curr of a sniveling female dog.
Rolly Polly	Posted - 2007.08.10 07:33:00 - [51] They save money and you get a 24 hour period of safety, The upkeep costs are for Wars declared and fought to the death. Privateers wars seem to be wars declared and fought becasue they are privateers not becasue they want to crush alliances.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.10 07:46:00 - [52] I really hope most of the posts in this thread have been made by privateers alt or ex-privateers, as the level of hate and volountary misreading of the op post is incredible. The original question is worth a reply by CCP: It is working as intended? Yes/No. Very simple. If the reply is No, the solutions proposed by cooler heads are all acceptable: continuation wardec cost the same as starting the wardec, longer enforced peace period if a war end by not paying CONCORD are both viable. There is even a third possibility, to start the 2+ wardec the corp declaring it must pay the difference for the first too (i.e. first war 50 m, second war 100m + a one time cost of 50 m added to the first war and so on as new wars are added) Probably the easiest way to code it is solution 1 (wardec costing the same to start or to maintain).
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:21:00 - [53] Yeah, lots of pollution. The OP states a fact : the privateers are griefers, and it's a playstyle allowed by the game. Only them take it for an insult, which is really, really amusing. And the privateers went on their mindless flaming, somehow, griefing is inappropriate for them... The OP found a situation were the people starting a war against them were behaving funnily, and asked if this was intended or not. And the privateers went on their mindless flaming, somehow, rather than discussing a change that would affect wardecks that could possibly help them. Well, whatever. What the OP proposes is to put the starting wardecs cost in line with the ongoing cost. Never has the OP said that the wars bothered the corp or her(his), never has (s)he asked them to stop. And the privateers went on their mindless flaming, still not realizing that the whining they saw was their own. The original idea was to put both prices in between the current prices. Then the OP came again and stated that it could be a good idea to reduce the price of on-going wars to the starting price. And the privateers went on their mindless flaming, not even realizing for one second that this idea would actually BOOST them. Yeah, go on privateers. This thread is really funny. I love getting flamed when helping people in their goal - in that case, making wardecks cheaper than they are now. And by the way, The only whining the OP did was complaining about getting trash-mail because the war that doesn't affect her(him) was started and canceled every week, and started looking a solution for it... -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Draaken Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Ladyah Liandri But I have to admit that the current systems seems to have a logic flaw. I'd expect that all in all recurring war declarations would result at least in equal or better higer costs than a war that continuously lasted the same amount of time. The underlined part is what's important: it's not continuous, the declaring party "loses" 24h of fighting time when they don't renew the declaration. _____
Gary Payne	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:52:00 - [55] hmm well all i can say is.. its a fecking game. get over it get out there and kill each other ffs :D stop whining like little ***es to have this nerfed, that nerfed. and oh hes got a bigger gun/ship than i have.. nerf it. before long we will have nothing to do but mine in an ibis, oh? you do that already.. also posting with an alt Miss Power is ******. if your going to talk on behalf of your so called ` alliance` do it with your main!.
Larry Loafer	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:50:00 - [56] Maybe the only "exploit" is Corporations leaving an alliance to avoid a war dec only to re-join as soon as the war is finshed ... Yeah maybe the system needs changing but not in your favour ...............
Larla Rosethorn Minmatar Black Market Beagles	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:01:00 - [57] Edited by: Larla Rosethorn on 10/08/2007 12:01:39 Speaking of Privateers posting, they seem to have not bothered.
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Major Stallion Originally by: Miss Power Originally by: Major Stallion privater alt? hahah look t my corp and alliance, numbnuts. I only post with my main, unlike some people in this post...errr just you. Why so scared to post with your main, seriously? You must really be that afraid that you look like an idiot. Shivering in fear as I type this. the absolute fearlessness of little kids posting from their alts never ceases to amaze me. Who's the more foolish? The Fool or the fool that argues with him? This to me is a troll topic, this could have been handled with a simple petition and not brought to the forums, where it turns into a Privateers witch-hunt and dead horse beating. Nothing to see here people, move along...
Surreptitious Isk Sink Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:31:00 - [59] You just jealous I am not paying your mother more for her "services" despite the savings we get on war fees. Syrup

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