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Banzai OdiN
Caldari Species 5618
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Posted - 2007.08.12 23:40:00 -
[1]
Right now as it is by looking at the bonuses: Note: When referring to the damnation i refer to Khanid MKII, however if the Khanid changes for some reason are never made then it is bonus wise; Prophecy ->Damnation and Absoloution the only thing makeing them different are the status and slots?
Ferox -> Vulture Drake -> Nighthawk Prophecy -> Absoloution Harbinger -> ? ? -> Damnation Cyclone - Claymore Hurricane -> Sleipnir? Brutix -> Astarte (Shouldn't that be in the role of the EOS???) Mymridon -> EOS
Yes, i am aware of the fact that the Tier 2 BC came out after the CS. Now lets look at the bonuses the ships have taken on from there Tier 1 / 2 counterparts)
Ferox -> Vulture - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level. (Both bonuses taken)
Drake -> Nighthawk - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level. (Instead of taking the Kinetic damage bonus, the nighthawk takes a ROF bonus which is more powerful??? Improvement on the ship here)
Prophecy -> Absoloution - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor use and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level (Both bonuses taken no improvement) Harbinger -> ? - N/A ? -> Damnation - N/A Cyclone - Claymore - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to Shield Booster effectiveness per level. (No improvement)
Hurricane -> Sleipnir? - Here the sleipnir takes the bonuses of a Cyclone. (No Improvement) Brutix -> Astarte -> Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level. (Both bonuses and no improvement)
Mymridon -> EOS - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level. (No improvment but there is a problem here will be explained!)
Now the Sleipnir and Eos possibly Damnation???( But we won't include that because its a BUFF)
The Sleipnir gets a improved bonus that its missing from the Hurricane the damage one from the T2 skill, this is becay=use unlike the other BC cept harbinger it has no tanking bonus, same could be said for harbinger ??? But the Sleipnir gets the bonuses of the Hurricane eventually. And a falloff bonus which helps in its role.
Now the Eos, it inherits the Tanking bonus of the Myrmidon for arguements sake but the Hybrid damage bonus of that of the brutix, which is fine thus far? Now it should get 2 bonuses to improve on the Battlecruiser skill bonuses right? Like the other CS, wrong It inherits a non damage bonused drone bay capacity.
So it has a split weapon system and drones that are as good as any battleships drones if you know what i mean? So why not change this to either 1 bonus to improve on the blaster bonus inherited by the BC skill, but that niche is filled (ASTARTE?). So why not change the Battlecruiser skill bonus to that of the Myrmdon, which the Eos is in theory the older T2 Brother of. So give it a drone bonus, the rep bonus, and then as Commandship will have its Information warfare bonus (WTF:EW bonus for non EW race? but thats another thread for another time) and then it has its drone bonus, so now its a myrmidon but it can hold more drones basically. Maybe reduce its turrets to compensate if it is overpowered but i think maybe either leave them or take away / add 1 turret depending on the situation?
If adding another turret then you would have to add one extra HI (Then it has 1 extra slot then other races?) so it has the ability of being able to run its 3 gang mods + guns?
Constructive criticism accepted, Trolling and flaming rejected
Discuss
~ Banzai OdiN ____________________________________________ Any Important people who sign this signature or hijack it get a special cookie the ones with Caramel and Triple Quadruple Choch Chip. I can't find pink |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.08.12 23:43:00 -
[2]
I'll tell you what is inconsistent.
The fact that the Tech 2 Command Ships actually have LESS HP then their tech 1 counterparts.
How the hell does thta make sense.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Mr Trade
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Posted - 2007.08.13 00:28:00 -
[3]
It's not inconsistent at all (to the OP, not to #2). Your argument should have stopped as soon as you admitted that the CS are based off of their Tier 1 battlecruiser predecessors, but instead you went on some weird rant based on how they should be based off the new Tier 2 BCs?
Very strange, it's almost like you just wanted an excuse to write a few hundred meaningless words.
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 00:36:00 -
[4]
Is it me but aren't the Tier 2 sort of based on the CS so therefore the CS is the T2 version. So do it properly? ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Banzai OdiN
Caldari Species 5618
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Posted - 2007.08.13 13:10:00 -
[5]
Hawk got changed, so why can't the EOS as it actually lacks compared to the other CS? ____________________________________________ Any Important people who sign this signature or hijack it get a special cookie the ones with Caramel and Triple Quadruple Choch Chip. I can't find pink |
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.13 14:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Banzai OdiN Hawk got changed, so why can't the EOS as it actually lacks compared to the other CS?
That almost made it into my sig... ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.13 14:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Banzai OdiN
Now the Eos, it inherits the Tanking bonus of the Myrmidon for arguements sake but the Hybrid damage bonus of that of the brutix, which is fine thus far? Now it should get 2 bonuses to improve on the Battlecruiser skill bonuses right? Like the other CS, wrong It inherits a non damage bonused drone bay capacity.
So it has a split weapon system and drones that are as good as any battleships drones if you know what i mean? So why not change this to either 1 bonus to improve on the blaster bonus inherited by the BC skill, but that niche is filled (ASTARTE?). So why not change the Battlecruiser skill bonus to that of the Myrmdon, which the Eos is in theory the older T2 Brother of. So give it a drone bonus, the rep bonus, and then as Commandship will have its Information warfare bonus (WTF:EW bonus for non EW race? but thats another thread for another time) and then it has its drone bonus, so now its a myrmidon but it can hold more drones basically. Maybe reduce its turrets to compensate if it is overpowered but i think maybe either leave them or take away / add 1 turret depending on the situation?
You're looking at it the wrong way: Command ships aren't supposed to be a T2 mix between each battlecruisers Tiers. Instead, Tier 2 battlecruisers are the poor man's command ship. That's why the bonuses are similar.
If you want a Myrmidon with assault resists, it's called an Ishtar.
And the Eos need a DPS nerf (on it's drones, not it's guns, or the FOTM players will turn those ships into another nos/neutmobile, and we already have enough of these) to be back on line with the others CS. I say remove the drone capacity bonus and replace it by 10% optimal, that way the Eos become a specialized in railguns while the Astarte is specialized on blasters... ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 15:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Banzai OdiN Drake -> Nighthawk - Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level. (Instead of taking the Kinetic damage bonus, the nighthawk takes a ROF bonus which is more powerful??? Improvement on the ship here)
And now count the number of launchers...
Originally by: Shadowsword And the Eos need a DPS nerf (on it's drones, not it's guns, or the FOTM players will turn those ships into another nos/neutmobile, and we already have enough of these) to be back on line with the others CS. I say remove the drone capacity bonus and replace it by 10% optimal, that way the Eos become a specialized in railguns while the Astarte is specialized on blasters...
That.
Or, an alternative suggestion, boost the eos dronebay to 75m¦ and replace the drone bay bonus with a 20-30% drone shield/armor transfer/lvl. Since that was the original thinking behind the drone bay bonus, to allow the eos the use of the heavy utility drones as fleet support ship.
Right now it has 80-90% of the tank of the other fleet commands and around 200% of their dps.
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Banzai OdiN
Caldari Species 5618
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:14:00 -
[9]
when i say eos is lacking i mean the bonuses it should inherit from the Myrmidon, we have a Hybrid gun so why not make it pure drone boat, this is in essence the message im trying to get across, and im not looking at fitting, im looking at bonuses purely ____________________________________________ Any Important people who sign this signature or hijack it get a special cookie the ones with Caramel and Triple Quadruple Choch Chip. I can't find pink |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Banzai OdiN when i say eos is lacking i mean the bonuses it should inherit from the Myrmidon, we have a Hybrid gun so why not make it pure drone boat, this is in essence the message im trying to get across, and im not looking at fitting, im looking at bonuses purely
The game really doesn't need yet another drone/neut/EW boat. End of story. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Banzai OdiN when i say eos is lacking i mean the bonuses it should inherit from the Myrmidon, we have a Hybrid gun so why not make it pure drone boat, this is in essence the message im trying to get across, and im not looking at fitting, im looking at bonuses purely
The game really doesn't need yet another drone/neut/EW boat. End of story.
___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 19:38:44
Originally by: Banzai OdiN when i say eos is lacking i mean the bonuses it should inherit from the Myrmidon, we have a Hybrid gun so why not make it pure drone boat, this is in essence the message im trying to get across, and im not looking at fitting, im looking at bonuses purely
It does not work like that. t2 ships are not compared vs their t1 counterparts but vs the other races ships of the same class.
In the case of the eos its the other field commands. Vs which it already is an anomaly, since it has around *twice* the dps of them, mainly due its drone. Even if it had *no* turrets and only 5 heavies without dronebonus it would still be one of the top fleet command DPSers.
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J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.13 19:47:00 -
[13]
This stupid **** again.
Drake - 7 Launchers. 1.25% Damage bonus. 7*1.25 = 8.75
Nighthawk - 6 Launchers. 1.20% Damage bonus. 1.25% ROF bonus. (I actually have CS to 5, but most don't.) 6*1.20 = 7.2
Now, ROF works differently than pure damage. Let me illustrate.
In this example, each missile does 100 damage. There are six launchers. The ROF is 6 seconds. (100*6)/6 = 100 So 100 DPS is achieved.
If you increase the damage of each missile by 25% you will get (125*6)/6 = 125 So 125 DPS will be acheived.
Now, instead of increasing damage, let's decrease the ROF by 25%. (100*6)/4.5 = 133.3 So around 133 DPS is achieved. So 25% ROF is equivelent to about a 33% increase in DPS.
Back to the Nighthawk
With the damage bonus we are at 7.2 launchers. (7.5 if your skills are maxed.)
7.2*1.33 = 9.57 Launchers. With level 4 CS. 7.5*1.33 = 9.98 Launchers. With level 5 CS. In pure, brutal, DPS the Nighthawk out damages the Drake, easily. On top of that, the Nighthawk has an extra low slot so it is easier to fit 3 Ballistic Controls 2's with no sacrifice to tank. In addition the Nighthawk does much better against small targets. In addition the Nighthawks base resist are significantly higher in regards to Kinetic and Thermal then the Drake. Also, if you really want, you can fit another gun on the Nighthawk.
Now, can we drop this stupid ******* **** with "LOL DRAKE >>> NIGHTHAWK!!!"
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: J Valkor This stupid **** again.
Drake - 7 Launchers. 1.25% Damage bonus. 7*1.25 = 8.75
Nighthawk - 6 Launchers. 1.20% Damage bonus. 1.25% ROF bonus. (I actually have CS to 5, but most don't.) 6*1.20 = 7.2
Now, ROF works differently than pure damage. Let me illustrate.
In this example, each missile does 100 damage. There are six launchers. The ROF is 6 seconds. (100*6)/6 = 100 So 100 DPS is achieved.
If you increase the damage of each missile by 25% you will get (125*6)/6 = 125 So 125 DPS will be acheived.
Now, instead of increasing damage, let's decrease the ROF by 25%. (100*6)/4.5 = 133.3 So around 133 DPS is achieved. So 25% ROF is equivelent to about a 33% increase in DPS.
Back to the Nighthawk
With the damage bonus we are at 7.2 launchers. (7.5 if your skills are maxed.)
7.2*1.33 = 9.57 Launchers. With level 4 CS. 7.5*1.33 = 9.98 Launchers. With level 5 CS. In pure, brutal, DPS the Nighthawk out damages the Drake, easily. On top of that, the Nighthawk has an extra low slot so it is easier to fit 3 Ballistic Controls 2's with no sacrifice to tank. In addition the Nighthawk does much better against small targets. In addition the Nighthawks base resist are significantly higher in regards to Kinetic and Thermal then the Drake. Also, if you really want, you can fit another gun on the Nighthawk.
Now, can we drop this stupid ******* **** with "LOL DRAKE >>> NIGHTHAWK!!!"
I don't care, it still gets bonuses from the drake, STFU and besides this is a change EOS not boost EOS change EOS thread. ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Nicocat
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:32:00 -
[15]
I'm still confused why you're mentioning CSes and tier 2 BCs in the same breath. One came before the other, CSes haven't been modified since. ----------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:45:00 -
[16]
hang on the hawk was modified to be a kestrel TII which theres a stealth bomber version of so why can't we have a T2 myrm on the brutix hull ?
Maybe give it a change on sisi ? ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Murukan
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.13 20:54:00 -
[17]
is this guy a murder one alt?
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Nicocat
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.13 21:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lydia Browm hang on the hawk was modified to be a kestrel TII which theres a stealth bomber version of so why can't we have a T2 myrm on the brutix hull ?
Maybe give it a change on sisi ?
There's so much wrong with this logic that I can't even follow it to be sure what exactly is the most incorrect part. ----------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
Banzai OdiN
Caldari Species 5618
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Posted - 2007.08.13 21:38:00 -
[19]
No, i am not a alt, i dunno it just seemed logical to me, oh well seeing as so many players don't wanit it you can leave it ____________________________________________ Any Important people who sign this signature or hijack it get a special cookie the ones with Caramel and Triple Quadruple Choch Chip. I can't find pink |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.14 11:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lydia Browm hang on the hawk was modified to be a kestrel TII which theres a stealth bomber version of so why can't we have a T2 myrm on the brutix hull ?
Maybe give it a change on sisi ?
Wrong. The Hawk got changed first to make it different from the Harpy, second because there wasn't any missile AS.
There's already drone boats for all sizes, and the Eos right now isn't just a subpar Astarte, hence it doesn't need a drone damage bonus.
And my mind boggle at seeing anyone ask for an Eos boost. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
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Iteken Hotori
Minmatar Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2007.08.14 17:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Murukan is this guy a murder one alt?
You Again :P Warning: May contain flaming, trolling, swearing, typos, crimes against grammar, obscure reference to old films, in jokes, rambling, ranting and references to EvE. |
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