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TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.14 15:30:00 - [1] Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints and 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links per level Why the hell did you do that. The damage and cap was much better. At leas you could get 250 dps on the previous one now you have a lousy 150. And before anyone says look armor hit points they help you crap if you cant kill a wet toilet paper. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Blood Cultist	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:01:00 - [2] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:02:00 - [3] Uh... thats crap :S
Daggon BIgon Dako Ltd.	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:20:00 - [4] And the cargo is well over 600 now too, even tankier...
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:20:00 - [5] Edited by: Goumindong on 14/08/2007 16:21:22 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Uh... thats crap :S If by "crap" you mean HOLY **** AWESOME, then yes, its crap. 85% lowest resist and 9000 base armor? 20,000 armor with a single 1600 plate? 87.8% average resists and 20,000 armor? 160k effective armor before a slave set? With 2 free low slots to do what you want to? And still 900 pg left.
Gendis Bunny Rabbit Corp	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:21:00 - [6] OMFG?!?!?! they changed a ship on the test server?!?! OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 14/08/2007 16:21:22 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Uh... thats crap :S If by "crap" you mean HOLY **** AWESOME, then yes, its crap. 85% lowest resist and 9000 base armor? 20,000 armor with a single 1600 plate? 87.8% average resists and 20,000 armor? 160k effective armor before a slave set? With 2 free low slots to do what you want to? And still 900 pg left. And what will you do with all the armor ?? Be bait ?? Everyone will know its a trap. Small gang ?? They will leave you for last, as you don't do no damage and are hard to kill Fleet ?? You sit at safe spot and run gang mods with cap mods fitted. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 14/08/2007 16:38:42 If you are in damnation with gang you are usually last target anyways... rarely ppl bother with killing command ships mostly because you can kill 10 other ships before. Like TerrorWOLF says: it doesnt give you any bonus whatsoever... ALso we tested "omg what an uber tank" ships before. They were called sacrileges and costed 50mil a piece because noone used them.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:05:00 - [9] Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Ballistic Control System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Faint Epsilon Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 429 DPS. Needs a 5% CPU or 5% gun CPU implant to fit. Not even using the rigs for more armor. Latch on, and not let go. Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control [empty high slot] Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Find a freidnly taking damage and keep that from happening. Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Reactor Control Unit II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Medium 'Regard' I Power Projector Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defence Medium 'Regard' I Power Projector Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Do the same, except now you can form a remote cap/rep circle jirk. Its not terribly powerful, but its not going anywhere.
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:18:00 - [10] Edited by: TerrorWOLF on 14/08/2007 17:19:08 Originally by: Goumindong edited out On the 1st setup where did you got 429 dps from?? Even with old 25% heavy assault damage bonus you didn't get it while using a BCU II and no armor rep or cap booster And the 2nd one WTF ?? May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:28:00 - [11] so when will we give the gallente hacs autocannon bonuses
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.14 18:49:00 - [12] Originally by: TerrorWOLF Edited by: TerrorWOLF on 14/08/2007 17:19:08 Originally by: Goumindong edited out On the 1st setup where did you got 429 dps from?? Even with old 25% heavy assault damage bonus you didn't get it while using a BCU II and no armor rep or cap booster And the 2nd one WTF ?? Whoops, i didnt notice the damage bonus went and became a velocity bonus. That way its 363 DPS. 5 HAMs w/ Navy Ammo 2 BCUs 5 light drones.
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:01:00 - [13] What part of giving the bonus to heavy missles did they not understand? I don't get what they're thinking here. I will post my ideas on these ships in a bit. What playing Amarr feels like.
Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Goumindong If by "crap" you mean HOLY **** AWESOME, then yes, its crap. 85% lowest resist and 9000 base armor? 20,000 armor with a single 1600 plate? 87.8% average resists and 20,000 armor? 160k effective armor before a slave set? With 2 free low slots to do what you want to? And still 900 pg left. The armor amount bonus would be awesome if it were on a ship with some kind of damage output, not one that, as another poster mentioned, can be ignored. Missile velocity instead of damage is disapointing, and the cap bonus would have come in very handy when running 3+ gang links.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.14 19:56:00 - [15] The point behind fleet command ships is to support fleets, not to be solopwnmobiles a la Eos. With the new bonuses the damnation can do exactly that. Support its gang with warfare links, provide some minor dps vs support and be a very tough target which makes it undesireable to attack so it can provide its warfare link bonuses for a long time. It also got a grid & cpu increase, btw.
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.14 20:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Aramendel The point behind fleet command ships is to support fleets, not to be solopwnmobiles a la Eos. With the new bonuses the damnation can do exactly that. Support its gang with warfare links, provide some minor dps vs support and be a very tough target which makes it undesireable to attack so it can provide its warfare link bonuses for a long time. It also got a grid & cpu increase, btw. Why is the Eos aloud to exist in the 1st place? And if you run gang mods for a fleet you not up front killing support because if you called primary you have 2 chances ether warp or die and in ether case people wont get bonuses from you. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.14 20:35:00 - [17] Originally by: TerrorWOLF Why is the Eos aloud to exist in the 1st place? Because CCP does not balance all ships at once? They already stated that the plan to look at the fleet comamnds after rev 2.2. Quote: And if you run gang mods for a fleet you not up front killing support because if you called primary you have 2 chances ether warp or die and in ether case people wont get bonuses from you. With the range bonus it does not have to be "up front", thats the whole point. And its massive HP and resistance make it a bad primary, with the right fitting it has easily 3-4 times the effective hitpoints of a fleet BS. If you have carrier support they can probably keep it up quite some time even vs an enemy fleet.
TerrorWOLF PURE Legion Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.14 20:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: TerrorWOLF Why is the Eos aloud to exist in the 1st place? Because CCP does not balance all ships at once? They already stated that the plan to look at the fleet comamnds after rev 2.2. Quote: And if you run gang mods for a fleet you not up front killing support because if you called primary you have 2 chances ether warp or die and in ether case people wont get bonuses from you. With the range bonus it does not have to be "up front", thats the whole point. And its massive HP and resistance make it a bad primary, with the right fitting it has easily 3-4 times the effective hitpoints of a fleet BS. If you have carrier support they can probably keep it up quite some time even vs an enemy fleet. When you get called primary in a fleet fight and hit by 40-60 BS the 3-4 times your effective hit points of a BS only means that a few more will get on your kill mail. May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.14 21:31:00 - [19] Originally by: TerrorWOLF When you get called primary in a fleet fight and hit by 40-60 BS the 3-4 times your effective hit points of a BS only means that a few more will get on your kill mail. And at the same time they could have destroyed 3-4 battleships.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.14 21:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 14/08/2007 21:39:04 Originally by: TerrorWOLF When you get called primary in a fleet fight and hit by 40-60 BS the 3-4 times your effective hit points of a BS only means that a few more will get on your kill mail. And at the same time they could have destroyed 3-4 battleships. 60 max skilled abaddons can barely alpha strike a max skilled damnation with one plate. With two plates its 2 volleys. With 2 plates, and rigs its 3 volleys.[using average damge types] Abaddon has the highest DPS of any battleship. Anything else its going to be even more. You have now bought your fleet 3-4 battleship advantage. Two things. 1. who will primary command ships instead of damage dealers? O_o 2. who will let command ship into firefight in 1st place (instead of holding it in safe/POS)?
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:37:00 - [21] 1.) He isn't claiming they do. TerrorWOLF is. 2.) Currently, yes. However with that bonuses, why the hell not? With 2 plates and basic skills and gang bonuses you can get 28.5k HPs and resistances in the 80-90% area. If you pimp it up with an HG slave set and t2 trimarks its almost 63k hp. 68k with the 8% armor implant. Thats after resistances about 8 fleet BS worth. The lower sig should increase the effective HP even further. You basically have a ship which will still provide the gang module bonus but also one which will draw some fire from stupid battleships and/or support and which has some modest dps to use against the enemy support.
Jargo Stonecutter Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.14 23:27:00 - [22] Ok, the tank is really massiv, probably the best one in game with those bonuses. (Certainly the best i had fitted on a ship yet.) BUT you wont be killing anything worthy with it tbh, as you will either be to slow or wont have enough DPS. Dont get me wrong, it will make a great fleet command ship for sure as nobody will call it primary and even if someone is doing it the damnation will hold up for quite a bit longer than any other ship. But dont expect it to be able to do anything else but tank and give bonuses for the gang. May you live in interresting times.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 23:40:00 - [23] Quote: The point behind fleet command ships is to support fleets, not to be solopwnmobiles a la Eos. QFT. They're there to survive and provide gang bonuses. Don't confuse the other fleet command ships with the laughably imbalanced Eos. If the fleet commands really are getting looked at soon, then the Eos should be hit with the nerf bat so hard that the whines will destroy the internet.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.15 01:17:00 - [24] Don't like it at all. 5% damage for 10% velocity is a poor trade. 5% cap for 10% armor is a questionable trade. The original MkII Damnation's cap was very nice to have, I don't think a better HP buffer is going to be all that great. Either put it back to the original bonuses, or change it to: BC: 10% missile velocity, 5% armor resist CS: 5% HAM damage, 3% gang mods
Jargo Stonecutter Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.15 02:12:00 - [25] I really like the 5% resists and 10% armor HP bonuses, which makes it a lovely tank (especially with links). The 3% Armored Warfare Links per lvl bonus is a must o/c for a Fleet Command Ship. What it really needs now is something to make fitting weapons worth it! (and all this packed into the last bonus) 10% missile velocity aint the kick it needs nor is the 5% missile dmg bonus. Combined, the bonuses would make the damnation awesome but with only one of them its a waste. How about a drones dmg/hp bonus with a ~150m3 dronebay instead? (If its khanid mk2 it should either go drones or missiles and i prefer drones for sure) May you live in interresting times.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.15 05:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Don't like it at all. 5% damage for 10% velocity is a poor trade. Is it? Seems to me as it stood with the damage bonus it was forced into a close range role. Remember this is an Amarr ship and a Battlecruiser...bloody slow. Hell, a Typhoon battleship has the same base speed as a Damnation. So anything it could reasonably expect to kill it could never catch (get into range on) and anything it could catch it likely could never kill and probably get killed trying.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.08.15 08:55:00 - [27] Edited by: Damned Force on 15/08/2007 08:57:06 I dont see your problems. Sure is not a solopwnmobil like eos, but that should not even be. The EOS is overpowered. But in fleet battles with this awsome tank and 2 dampeners and with the crappy damage is still a damn good choice. 1. U do more damage than if u hide in safe 2. Your dampeners can take out some BS's from the fight 3. U would not be primary because the tank
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:36:00 - [28] Stop whining please, the Damnation is now a better choice then my maxed Eos. Thanks CCP :D ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf! ~~-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot~~ -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus ~~-Zealot: +10% more golden hull~~
Ricco Lonestar Minmatar SuX ltd.	Posted - 2007.08.15 11:18:00 - [29] That's exactly the ship i need. Thanks CCP. This ship will help me through the toughest missions. Rockhard and with more armor it will give time to warp in the remote repping cavalry. Giving Amarr some missileskills to train not bad either. That way they might discover FOF and can outsmart recons in some occasions.
The Economist	Posted - 2007.08.15 14:02:00 - [30] Not bad, now just swap that hitpoint bonus for a ham and heavy missile dmg bonus and we're set
CiYiNiO	Posted - 2007.08.15 17:50:00 - [31] Lol @ all the speculators that bought hoards of these up to re-price them for 2x as much. Worth even less now ^_^
Jay One	Posted - 2007.08.16 12:11:00 - [32] :\ Cap would have helped it run gang links etc more than any armor bonus...

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