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Splunk jamma
Caldari Intel 7
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:16:00 -
[1]
Ok I'm getting a new mid range desktop very soon. It's got a direct x10 compatible dual graphics card. Which operating system shall I use, Vista or Xp. I want to steer clear of Vista but with Revelations III will I be able to run the new graphics engine on Windows XP? Your help is much appreciated.
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RaTTuS
BIG
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:23:00 -
[2]
personally - XP, though DX10 wont be supported in XP , - however vista is a bit of a Hog, wait until Vista as 1 or 2 SP before using it IMO
make sure you have plenty of RAM . -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
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Splunk jamma
Caldari Intel 7
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: RaTTuS personally - XP, though DX10 wont be supported in XP , - however vista is a bit of a Hog, wait until Vista as 1 or 2 SP before using it IMO
make sure you have plenty of RAM .
Cheers. Gonna get 2mb of ram, and upgrade to Vista when microcon... err I mean microsoft sort it out
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Ethaet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:50:00 -
[4]
2MB? what is your rig? a 286?
Get XP, vista is slow, buggy, and is full of rubbish like UAC that you need to remove. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error".
Seems familiar? |
Katsumushi
Gallente Aterizon Capital
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Katsumushi on 15/08/2007 12:03:18 Edited by: Katsumushi on 15/08/2007 11:58:57 I'm on Vista and it is NOT slow, NOT buggy and you can turn UAC by unticking one box and then restarting. It's only slowish if you have 1GB of RAM, I have 2GB and it runs perfectly. I'd advise going straight for Vista, it's alot better than when it first came out. You'll also benefit from the EVE DX10 engine rolling out next year.
Edit for clarification: You WILL be able to run the new DX9 engine which is anticipated November/December. Then next year the DX10 version will come out which, of course, you can only ultilize on Vista. I can safely assume it will not only look better, but will perform better. _____________________ Lose Oh hay, I'm about to lose my Megathron to a Kestrel. Loose The shackles on my Slaver Hounds seem pretty loose. OH SHI-
Learn the difference. |
Splunk jamma
Caldari Intel 7
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Posted - 2007.08.15 12:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ethaet 2MB? what is your rig? a 286?
Get XP, vista is slow, buggy, and is full of rubbish like UAC that you need to remove.
Must of traveled back in time 10 years :) Thanks for the advice
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Ethaet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.15 12:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Katsumushi Edited by: Katsumushi on 15/08/2007 11:58:57 I'm on Vista and it is NOT slow, NOT buggy and you can turn UAC by unticking one box and then restarting. It's only slowish if you have 1GB of RAM, I have 2GB and it runs perfectly. I'd advise going straight for Vista, it's alot better than when it first came out. You'll also benefit from the EVE Dx10 engine rolling out next year.
I have 2GB.
I will not use Vista because I dislike DRM and don't want to pay ú200 for something that has absolutely no useful features XP doesn't have. Vista HAS huge hardware and driver compatibility issues, you are one of the lucky ones.
Anyone who wants vista, wait until at least sevice pack 1. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error".
Seems familiar? |
Maltitol
Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.15 16:13:00 -
[8]
XP
i work 10 feet from Vista Tech support.. many, many issues! But eve is not one of them, so your choice.
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squall321
Gallente Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: squall321 on 15/08/2007 21:35:23 afaik they are bringing out direct x 9.0L still, directx 10 for XP ....although it was awhile ago it was announced i still think its in the works though. http://www.nforcershq.com/article6894.html
have a look -----------
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Mari Onette
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:44:00 -
[10]
XP.
DX10 will be hacked for use on XP. There is absolutely no reason why DX10 cant run on XP, its just that microsoft is trying to force you into their new OS which is riddled with DRM.
Fun fact, With vista, if you have high definition content that you purchased, and you do not have an MPAAfia approved output device, your high def content will be played at standard resolution rather then high def
Hows that for progress. - I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth - At 20 dollars a month, Eve costs 2 cents an hour to play. Downtime is cheap. |
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Fanjita
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Posted - 2007.08.15 23:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mari Onette XP.
DX10 will be hacked for use on XP. There is absolutely no reason why DX10 cant run on XP, its just that microsoft is trying to force you into their new OS which is riddled with DRM.
Fun fact, With vista, if you have high definition content that you purchased, and you do not have an MPAAfia approved output device, your high def content will be played at standard resolution rather then high def
Hows that for progress.
Just like any high def standalone player you buy then?
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Katsumushi
Gallente Aterizon Capital
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: squall321 Edited by: squall321 on 15/08/2007 21:35:23 afaik they are bringing out direct x 9.0L still, directx 10 for XP ....although it was awhile ago it was announced i still think its in the works though. http://www.nforcershq.com/article6894.html
have a look
Nope 9.0L is DirectX 9 for Vista.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=35140 _____________________ Lose Oh hay, I'm about to lose my Megathron to a Kestrel. Loose The shackles on my Slaver Hounds seem pretty loose. OH SHI-
Learn the difference. |
Kurek Asaroth
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Posted - 2007.08.16 05:11:00 -
[13]
Splunk jamma,I agree with Katsumushi. For the new midrange system that you are buying (building?)I would recommend vista. I have heard time and time again on every extreme hardware forum I visit about dx10 being "hacked" or released for xp. I am currently running vista premium oem on a low end system I built myself and I have yet to run into any problems, crashes, nothing. I simply waited until all the working drivers were released for my hardware(not beta). I do get some lag on eve when the screen starts filling up with ships, and my solution is another gig of ram. As for dx10 for xp, for the umpteenth time, not happening. I wish more people would read the release from microsoft development network which can be found here.
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb219721.aspx#Will_DirectX_10_be_available_for_Windows_XP
My current rig: Asus P5N32SLI SE Deluxe P4 650 [email protected] OCZ 1GB ddrII oc@875 2x 80gb seagate sata raid0 Bfg 7600gt (oc'ed) SB audigy 2 zs Tagan 900W power supply 4x 80mm fans
fly safe!
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Splunk jamma
Caldari Intel 7
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Posted - 2007.08.16 08:05:00 -
[14]
Well thanks again for all of your input. Still deciding on what operating system to use I might just have to wait it out a bit longer. Oh for the days of ms-dos
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Furnis
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Posted - 2007.08.16 18:47:00 -
[15]
Go for Vista, and 64-bit while you're at it - if you can afford 2GB RAM. If you use old peripherals, you might be in trouble with the drivers. But if you're planning just running the rig, and then consider which periperhals you want to have, Vista 64-bit will serve you well.
The main reason for me to use Vista is its >3GB memory support and GUI pleasantness. XP looks blocky after Vista, if you use lots of productivity applications and hassle a lot with explorer and such. The search feature in the Start menu is also a killer. So will DX10 support in the future.
The only problems I've had so far with vista is the inability to install Canon Canoscan 8000F, and Sid Meier's Railroads! does not work with 64-bit Vista. Other than that, I play many, many games, and all have been ok so far.
Vista Ultimate OEM 64-bit Antec P180, BeQuiet 650W QuadRail Asus P5N32E-SLI, Core2Duo E6600 4x1GB Supertalent DDR2-800-4-4-3-8 8800GTS-320 + 2x Samsung 19" LCD's, running two clients windowed M-Audio Fast Track Pro + 2x Behringer Truth B2030A's Logitech MX1000, Logitech G15
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Tasan Zane
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Posted - 2007.08.19 13:07:00 -
[16]
I'm on 64bit vista on a 1080p 40inch widescreen - it's gorgeous and no bugs at all..
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Tasan Zane
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Posted - 2007.08.19 13:07:00 -
[17]
I'm on 64bit vista on a 1080p 40inch widescreen - it's gorgeous and no bugs at all..
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Tig Halberd
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Posted - 2007.08.21 15:27:00 -
[18]
I'm running on Vista now. I have a new Dell 9200, 4GB RAM, 8800GTX card and dual 24inch monitors. I actually run two copies of Eve in windowed mode (one on each screen) so I can have both my characters ganged together.
-Tig
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Harondor Miriadwaith
Caldari The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.08.21 15:53:00 -
[19]
Am also running vista (Home Premium) and have been since launch with no bugs or problems since. It actually supports all my very old games better than XP did (ie. it actually runs them).
Plus theres the added bonus of not having to wait to play games like the new DX10 Eve Client/Crysis/UT3 in DX10 because your hoping, and waiting, for the hacked DX10 to come out for XP!
Waiting and upgrading later will cost more and doesn't make too much sense imo.
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Richy Young
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Posted - 2007.08.21 16:19:00 -
[20]
ive been running vista for 4 months and have just dumped it and gone back to xp, im sorry but theres just to many bad points about vista and only 1 dx10 good point which theres no reason to have yet so i guess thats no good points then
for a start xp is faster, ive seen noticable increases since going back, also all my digital camamras dont have drivers that work with vista, so no web cam and no video cam. also EVE DOESNT WORK on vista i dont care what any one says it just comes up with a black screen when you load it and ive petitioned for ages about it.
also red alert 2 doesnt work becuase vista doesnt use ipx that for me was the final straw....
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Harondor Miriadwaith
Caldari The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.08.22 12:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Richy Young ...also EVE DOESNT WORK on vista i dont care what any one says it just comes up with a black screen when you load it...
oh right, damn, thought I was running vista but I must be wrong because I can play eve, at 150+FPS as well. Perhaps the XP fairy crept into my room at night and replaced Vista with XP and Windows blinds, did a good job tho!
/sarcasm off (eve windowed at smaller res to make the point)
Anyway without being a jerk, eve does seem to have issues in vista for some people but others like myself have had no problems whatsoever! Its like anything related to computers! Ive been looking for a new 24" monitor and after hundreds of reviews ive found that even the best brands have some severe problems across the board for some people (blacking out, overheating, exploding...) but thats not going to put me off and Ive just ordered my new Dell 2407WFP-HC (with a sexy 1900x1200 resolution and 100% dead pixel garuntee too)
ANYWAY...
With all these things your more likly to hear the things that go wrong then the things that go right because people without problems tend not to scream it at the top of their lungs to get the attention needed to get something fixed, and so they should!
Only way to know is if you do it yourself and enter the pot luck that is upgrading!
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Xplained
Caldari Ticon Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.08.22 15:28:00 -
[22]
for mid range i would recommend XP, high end go for vista, if you can afford it it, go vista ultimate, it simply rocks
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Sheila Chandra
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Posted - 2007.08.22 21:23:00 -
[23]
A little bit of miss-informations in here :)
- 64bit Vista supports >3GB ram, BUT !!! the program needs to be 64bit too to use that feature. And i bet EvE has no 64bit executable ;) You "can" however tweak an exe file to be able to use more RAM, but its not working on MMOs as their checking if your using an unchanged exe and u cant stay long on a server when it means your using a hacked client.
- Yes DX10 looks much better then DX9, but its not faster. Every benchmark / game / demo that is capable of running DX9 and DX10 shows you that on maximum settings the DX9 is faster. (Logical, DX10 looks better therefore needs more power). However there is one DX10 thing that can make things faster, the fact that in DX10 its possible to have X identical objects only "drawn" once. Sounds in first place like a feature that could enhance perfomance in EvEs mass battles drastically, but in fact the perfomance impact here is the Server / Internet and the amount of data shared between 100+ computers, not the graphics card unable to display 200 ships with 20+ fps ;)
- Everyone saying "oh no vista has so much driver issues"... Try it before complaining. It had huge driver issues at release. Theres not a single company that hasnt released drivers for their hardware yet. The only issue atm is that there is no 64bit free AV that works actually great (only one is AVG which is crap)
- Perfomance issues: Simple said, on old hardware XP wins the bench, on new hardware (dualcore, 2gig RAM) vista is even with XP, but has the benefit of much better memory handling kernel.
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Grez
Minmatar Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.22 21:27:00 -
[24]
If you've got a system good enough to make use of Vista, then it's far superior to XP. If you haven't, you're going to struggle to run EVE, or any game, better than you could on XP. XP is stream-lined in comparison, but it's not up to date. Vista has far more technology built into it, even tough it's built on the same NT system.
Like I said - if you're system is going to be good enough to make use of it, then use it. ---
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hobieone
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.22 21:51:00 -
[25]
you all do relize what the word vista actually stands for right?? Vista = Virus Intruders. Spywares Trojans and Adware.
but seriously acording to a couple interesting articles from pc world and maxium pc magazine. i t been recently confirmed that the reason xp is out performing vista even with direct x10 games. is none of the current dx 10 graphics are made made with dmr or content protection built into them so vista will degrade their performance and only use dx 9. and both nvidia and ati stated they will not include dmr or content protection on thier hardware due to it willhinder the cards perfermance, make it incompatible with existing operating systems and cause huge problems with thier unified driver system and plus it is totaly not nessasary as to how is the graphics card going to allow someone to copy copyrighted material? so it doesn't matter if you runvista for dx 10 you will not see any benifit from it as vista will use dx 9 for the exiting cards as they do not include any tyope of dmr or content protection on the hardware itself.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccp |
Grez
Minmatar Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.22 21:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Grez on 22/08/2007 22:00:02
Originally by: hobieone you all do relize what the word vista actually stands for right?? Vista = Virus Intruders. Spywares Trojans and Adware.
but seriously acording to a couple interesting articles from pc world and maxium pc magazine. i t been recently confirmed that the reason xp is out performing vista even with direct x10 games. is none of the current dx 10 graphics are made made with dmr or content protection built into them so vista will degrade their performance and only use dx 9. and both nvidia and ati stated they will not include dmr or content protection on thier hardware due to it willhinder the cards perfermance, make it incompatible with existing operating systems and cause huge problems with thier unified driver system and plus it is totaly not nessasary as to how is the graphics card going to allow someone to copy copyrighted material? so it doesn't matter if you runvista for dx 10 you will not see any benifit from it as vista will use dx 9 for the exiting cards as they do not include any tyope of dmr or content protection on the hardware itself.
What on EARTH are you on about? From what you've said I can gather that you have no idea how Vista works... You can't "DMR" (DRM) graphical performance. Content can be DRM'd, not drivers. The only reason XP is out performing Vista, is because it doesn't use as many resources. Vista is an up-to-date OS, and it'll run crappy if you don't have a system that can take advantage of all that it can offer. It's designed to be run on 2GB of memory, dual core processors, and a DX10 graphics card. Not many of the public have these now, but dual core processors have exploded in the past two years, and 2GB of memory is standard in most new machines now, and DX10 graphics cards are now flooding onto the market from both ATI and Nvidia.
We said the same thing about XP when it was released, and it's happening again with Vista. But in two years, I guarantee an absolute ****-ton of us will be on Vista, simply because our machines will have been upgraded to a level of which Vista preforms on par, if not better, than XP.
Quote: DRM:
Any technology used to protect the interests of owners of content and services (such as copyright owners). Typically, authorized recipients or users must acquire a license in order to consume the protected materialùfiles, music, moviesùaccording to the rights or business rules set by the content owner.
---
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hobieone
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.22 23:48:00 -
[27]
from what i read microsoft wants drm software written into the gpu's. so that if graphics card detects a pgame running that might be a pirated copy the graphics cards would refuse to display the graphics or send a signal to os so the os will shut it down. esentually ms wants to control what can and cannot be run a computer through any means such if someone was to bypass one part of the drm system another would catch it. and this could be down using a flash memory chip the card and upon the hardware would start running it. miscrosoft has been putting pressure lately on both amd and intel to do the same thing on thier cpu's as well. basically a rootkit in every component in the pc. the whole drm and copyprotection scheme is the main reason alot of the us government agencies willnot use vista until it removed due to it wil cause havoc with thier existing systems.
in a nut shell microsoft really wants to pc to be completly propriety like the macs so you can't build one and like mac control what goes into it for hardware in the name of increased secruity. vista is becoming just that an attempt force or move things into that direction. microsoft has come right out and said it if a hardware component does not meet its requirements to be dmr and compliant with vista copy proction system that parts performce will automatically be degraded
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccp |
Grez
Minmatar Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.23 00:22:00 -
[28]
Microsoft have said nothing about sending DRM data between the GPU and the rest of the machine. Either your source is wrong, or you misunderstood it. The entire system both Nvidia and ATI use would have to be re-designed from scratch just to accommodate Microsoft. The reason I call bull****, is because Microsoft would be sued to **** and back by Apple, and the Linux Community. Unless Microsoft produce their own hardware, they cannot demand that hardware manufacturers implement DRM data shunting across the platform.
It would basically be telling them to produce hardware just for Windows, or force hardware manufacturers to produce two lines of hardware to accommodate other software development houses that produce OS'. ---
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Sheila Chandra
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Posted - 2007.08.23 07:03:00 -
[29]
loool... Sorry but i dont think i ever heard such "urban legend" since about 10 years when someone said windows 98 sends all keystrokes to the CIA
However, a generel suggestion for future posts ;) My mom told me so quarter a century ago and now ill tell you the secret: 1. Inform 2. Think 3. Speak (post)
i know the other way is funny
However, im in good mood and do point 1 for you: http://www.drmblog.com/index.php?/archives/82_Output_Content_Protection_DRM_and_Windows_Vista.html
In short terms, whatever you heard from this conference over 300 edges, in summary said. Vista is capable of using a DRM system on a Graphics Card, BUT this only has 2 effects:
1. If a graphics Card is DRM certified microsoft can cancel the DRM contract and disable the DRM via windows update. I never heard this had happend, and if it would either ATI or NVIDIA would ever again do anything with M$ :D
2. Graphics Card DRM is to protect content that has a DRM Protection. So far, the only graphics related technology that has any DRM Protection so far is.... tada... "High Definition Multimedia Interface", or commonly known as "HDMI". Said in other ways, there is no known way to copy a HDMI Source (except for some hardware that transforms it into normal Video signal).
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Furnis
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Posted - 2007.08.23 10:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sheila Chandra A little bit of miss-informations in here :)
- 64bit Vista supports >3GB ram, BUT !!! the program needs to be 64bit too to use that feature. And i bet EvE has no 64bit executable ;) You "can" however tweak an exe file to be able to use more RAM, but its not working on MMOs as their checking if your using an unchanged exe and u cant stay long on a server when it means your using a hacked client.
- Yes DX10 looks much better then DX9, but its not faster. Every benchmark / game / demo that is capable of running DX9 and DX10 shows you that on maximum settings the DX9 is faster. (Logical, DX10 looks better therefore needs more power). However there is one DX10 thing that can make things faster, the fact that in DX10 its possible to have X identical objects only "drawn" once. Sounds in first place like a feature that could enhance perfomance in EvEs mass battles drastically, but in fact the perfomance impact here is the Server / Internet and the amount of data shared between 100+ computers, not the graphics card unable to display 200 ships with 20+ fps ;)
- Everyone saying "oh no vista has so much driver issues"... Try it before complaining. It had huge driver issues at release. Theres not a single company that hasnt released drivers for their hardware yet. The only issue atm is that there is no 64bit free AV that works actually great (only one is AVG which is crap)
- Perfomance issues: Simple said, on old hardware XP wins the bench, on new hardware (dualcore, 2gig RAM) vista is even with XP, but has the benefit of much better memory handling kernel.
Actually no misinformation was there, although those clarifications are partly justified to help people understand things right.
>3GB memory support mainly benefits in multitasking. 2 Eve clients, Photoshop on the background for screenshot editing, SQL Server & Web server & middleware & dev tools perhaps... I admit, you'd need quad core for this, since 2 Eve clients totally suck dry my E6600
Saying that DX10 isn't faster than DX9 is very vaguely put. If certain looks can be achieved with DX10 that would take significantly more effort and processing power with DX9 hardware, I would call DX10 faster. (Also quite vaguely put )
About driver issues and performance, I agree.
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