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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:42:00 -
[1]
Heya,
I've been working on this for a while now and reached a point where all the data is there and needs to be displayed in a pleasent way 
First of all, this is how it currently looks like.
It is the output of a Sov browser application, such as this.
The concept is based on a Voronoi tesselation of the 2D mapped universe. This means, it assigns a cell to each solarsystem there is. The shape and outline of this cell is based on their "centerpoints" (one solarsystem) relative location to other points. This enables every system to have a single area it occupies (even if it may be very small).
The application can in its most basic form be run as a scheduled server task, producing one output image depending on certain parameters.
If you want to be more creative, it can be run as an applet or standalone application with some form of (unfinished) UI.
What it can do:
-show either the universe or any regions sovereignty
-show sovereignty changes of any period of time in days (if the sov.xml files provided by the EVE API are available)
-change the colours of any alliance
-display as many or as little alliances as you want in the current selection
What it is planned to be included:
-change the way sovereignty spread to unclaimed systems is handled through the UI
-display some form of color <-> alliance representation (alliance names) in the image
What it needs now:
-some host for this mess 
-maybe someone writing a webpage for all the parameters instead of this bloody swing UI
-input what should be added
Well, since I am on vacation for a week from now on, I thought I'd show you what I have and come back and collect your (hopefully numerous) suggestion on how to improve it.
Good luck to me 
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Kvarium Ki
Legion Du Lys
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:48:00 -
[2]
This looks very promising.
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ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
N E X O
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:00:00 -
[3]
nice
good job
BC one |
BlackHorizon
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: BlackHorizon on 17/08/2007 17:06:48
Excellent work. Eve needs more people like you.
Enjoy your vacation.
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Attak
Trioptimum
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:08:00 -
[5]
Looks good so far. I like the idea of being able to change your own parameters on the map to better keep track of changes and customize the look.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:22:00 -
[6]
very good, and im sure alot of ppl will appreciate ur effort.
one thing, a small one, that still is not unimportant,
it would be awesome if u could change the colours,
bob and allies blueish, rsf redish etc.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
one thing, a small one, that still is not unimportant,
it would be awesome if u could change the colours,
bob and allies blueish, rsf redish etc.
colour changing is built into the application. how it is represented now, is just the random colour assigned to any alliance at the time of 1st compilation. It is something to do should it near completion 
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Jangizal
Caldari
NYIT Gangstaz
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:57:00 -
[8]
I am happy to see this kind of effort in the community. Good work.
Blog. |
V0rador
Amarr
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.17 18:58:00 -
[9]
Seems interesting , good luck for finish it.
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KIZERIAN
Caldari
SKORPION CORP
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:00:00 -
[10]
First map to actually show our lil place - nice work dude.
Kizer
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Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:04:00 -
[11]
Looks jaggy and I like. Bloody good effort \o/
Good girls go to Heaven. Bad girls get drunk and pew pew everywhere! |
Cialis Extendus
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:06:00 -
[12]
Very nice, a voronoi diagram is the best way in principle to accomplish this. I'm currently working on a similar principle but somewhat dynamically reorganising solar systems in order to make it more legible (maps are 2d, eve's map is 3d).
Your biggest issue at the moment is you are generating voronoi diagrams around limited points, you need to either write an algorithm to fill in the spaces in coverage (see tenerifis for an excellent example) or potentially populate 'dead space' with a fixed density of vertexes and write an algorithm to ensure sov claims expand.
Whichever you use it's quite well done by default but you do need to work on your shading :)
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:42:00 -
[13]
1) Make it see all >0.0 systems as invisible sovereignity (excludes empire space)
2) Make it ignore all systems with no sovereignity and you should get rid of those blob gaps
[ insert fancy sig here ] |
Lews Stark
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 19:48:00 -
[14]
Looks promising!
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cialis Extendus
Your biggest issue at the moment is you are generating voronoi diagrams around limited points, you need to either write an algorithm to fill in the spaces in coverage (see tenerifis for an excellent example) or potentially populate 'dead space' with a fixed density of vertexes and write an algorithm to ensure sov claims expand.
Whichever you use it's quite well done by default but you do need to work on your shading :)
In its 1st instance, it generated a standard voronoi, the problem there is that you get large cells wherever there is space between for example the regions.
The perfect solution for this problem would be a way to specify a concave hull for the whole map, however, contrary to a convex hull, this is not a simple task o do and afaik there are no algorithms for concave hull generations at all.
What I currently do is, generating a voronoi of both the solarsystems and a number of arbitrary points filling all "space" where there is large emptyness in the map. Only cells with solarsystems in it are used for displaying though.
With this approach, I got the best results when I specified those arbitrary points by hand, but as you can guess, this is lots of work (read 2k+ handpicked points for the universe map). Right now I do the lazy way and randomly assign points and check if they`re not going to interfere with the system cells too much. It`s not perfect yet, but getting there
Anyway, one of the last posts, seaside, here I come.
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:03:00 -
[16]
To be more specific, the tenerifis gap you mentioned is intended, if it wasn`t there, the surrounding cells would grab up the space left.
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
1) Make it see all >0.0 systems as invisible sovereignity (excludes empire space)
2) Make it ignore all systems with no sovereignity and you should get rid of those blob gaps
As explained above, the gaps are wanted (if there`s no system in it hat means)
1) If you mean gaps for example in fountain or period bases, thats where NPC factions reside.
It is set so no spread happens into those systems (you can`t claim them anyway).
2) Some other gaps are there due to the way spread works, if there is no sov system claimed within 4 jumps (one of he things to be meant to become adjustable within the UI), then there is no influence assigned at all.
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John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:14:00 -
[18]
I mean this as constructive criticism so please don't be offended but it looks like lots of paper cut outs. Try making it a little more free flowing rather than lots of right angles 
Make a Difference
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SencneS
Amarr
Balsarferskratchin Inc
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:30:00 -
[19]
I'm going to assume you know about the Influence map, in fact it may have been where you got the idea from. You two could try and work together to fill in the black spaces between the sovereignties, and make it look less like paper cut-outs but oozing liquid colors that fill in the entire area.
This is great work and I can't wait to see it in full bloom.
Here is something I wish the Influence map had.
An Alliance option, in which you could pool multiple alliances under one color.
For example BOB, FIX, MC, etc would be one color. GOON, RA, IAC, -A- would be another color. Although on the influence map it's not really a good option. However if you're looking at an application with options this may be something worth while.
Have a section of say five "Universal Coalition"
Each "Universal Coalition" has a list of alliances which it is part of.
The map that is produced, single color for all alliances in their "Coalitions" and any Alliance not part of a Coalition is still shown on the map under their alliance.
Keep up the great work.
----------------------------------
Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama! |
Cialis Extendus
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:37:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cialis Extendus on 17/08/2007 21:37:25
Originally by: Takita Yukida
In its 1st instance, it generated a standard voronoi, the problem there is that you get large cells wherever there is space between for example the regions.
The perfect solution for this problem would be a way to specify a concave hull for the whole map, however, contrary to a convex hull, this is not a simple task o do and afaik there are no algorithms for concave hull generations at all.
That's not entirely true, next time I'm in game I will contact you as I have a whitepaper which describes a reasonably efficient concave hull algorithm. There are of course many ways to do this, the easiest is similar to a concave hull algorithm insofar as you simply 'sweep' rightward but limit the points to those within range. Still I'll contact you about this as soon as I've had a good search.
Quote:
What I currently do is, generating a voronoi of both the solarsystems and a number of arbitrary points filling all "space" where there is large emptyness in the map. Only cells with solarsystems in it are used for displaying though.
Yeah this is essentially the way I thought of doing things to ensure equal coverage. You will be able to automate this easily by taking small squares at the simplest and checking the density and total count of vertexes. What would really help is a simple 'influence calculator' and check the nearest x stars and their sov, then calculate straight line distance and fit them up appropriately.
Quote:
Anyway, one of the last posts, seaside, here I come.
Enjoy, I am going to do a bit more work on my map, it's written in perl and uses Graph::Layout::Aesthetic to 'smooth out' regions. I am having to write my own forces though (and possibly a bloody solver) to ensure that crossed jumps can be adjusted neatly. My 'classic' style map looks like this: http://xs218.xs.to/xs218/07335/map.png but this will require a lot of refinement to look decent.
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Xthril Ranger
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.17 22:01:00 -
[21]
promising
just that the line color should not be close to any sovereignty color. Good luck with it.
.
you'll never jump alone
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 22:46:00 -
[22]
Genius stuff. Gotta love more maps. Moar maps. MOAR!!!111!
Could be a worthy successor to Paladin's map, if he's not coming back. Although Verite is doing a very good job...More the merrier!
Agree that the colours need doing though. It's all blue and purple...
--------
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Dawson
Caldari
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.17 23:02:00 -
[23]
good job keep it up! both of you.
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Minigin
Ganja Labs
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Posted - 2007.08.17 23:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Minigin on 17/08/2007 23:24:19
i cant seem to get either link to work >_>
edit: ok working now... and i want to have your babies.... this is so awesome
MINIGIN! now posting in "limegreen"
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Cialis Extendus
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.18 00:21:00 -
[25]
I thought I'd make another quick post to show exactly what i mean by aesthetic rearranging. This is a random region (prizes for guessing!) being made a lot more aesthetic: link
I'm currently trying to write a relatively efficient solver to determine when intersections are superfluous so I can do things like move the two systems you see in the middle that cross other jumps for no good reason.
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Karsten
Caldari
LoneWolf Mining
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Posted - 2007.08.18 07:47:00 -
[26]
keep the great work going :-)
Karsten
"All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery" |
Ackaroth
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.18 08:03:00 -
[27]
Looks like it has alot of potential. I disagree with people saying they want it smoother, this is a cool contrast to the paladin/verite map.
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Self Similar
Gallente
The Collective
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Posted - 2007.08.18 17:13:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Self Similar on 18/08/2007 17:20:38
Interesting use of voronoi diagrams.. I don't know how well they will actually show anything useful, if at all, but you'll certainly end up with a pretty picture.
If its going to be done on a regional basis, perhaps it would give a clearer overview - you could also use the values for ships destroyed / average local counts too, if it is available on the API.
Sovereignty is not the full picture, when it comes to looking at how masses are moving, um, en masse..
edit: some links to interesting uses of voronoi diagrams - maybe you'll get some inspiration from them ;)
Voronoi Music Video
Voronoi and magnetism
Spatial Query analysis using voronoi diagrams
Drop me a mail if you want to discuss ideas.
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Clotaire
Omni-Core Freedom Fighters
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.08.19 08:33:00 -
[29]
This map looks almost like an attempt to meld Joshua Foiritain's and Paladin Vent/Verite Rendition's maps. Really interesting idea. I've been waiting for someone to combine the two.
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Darknesss
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.19 09:57:00 -
[30]
wow the drone regions look messy
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Chib
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.19 11:43:00 -
[31]
er...yeah....what are those stripy lines in my region 
---------------------------------------------
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.25 10:44:00 -
[32]
I am back from the sunny beaches 
As for the previous poster, the lines represent a cell where a change occured within the selected period of time.
Anyway, while I was getting a sunburn, I thoght of some changes how to get the cell edges more smooth. This of course only coverse outlines, the inner structure between solarsystem is defined by them alone, but I think I have all tools thought up to get the outer structure and the "holes" into a more pleasent view. I think results should drip in starting next week.
Unfortunatel, not much suggestions regarding a legend for the somewhat crowded drone regions for example been left while I was away, guess I'll have to think of something on my own.
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Self Similar
Gallente
The Collective
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Posted - 2007.08.26 11:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Takita Yukida
I am back from the sunny beaches
As for the previous poster, the lines represent a cell where a change occured within the selected period of time.
Anyway, while I was getting a sunburn, I thoght of some changes how to get the cell edges more smooth. This of course only coverse outlines, the inner structure between solarsystem is defined by them alone, but I think I have all tools thought up to get the outer structure and the "holes" into a more pleasent view. I think results should drip in starting next week.
Unfortunatel, not much suggestions regarding a legend for the somewhat crowded drone regions for example been left while I was away, guess I'll have to think of something on my own.
Welcome back takita - looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Were the links I posted any use?
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Non Zero
Solipsism Syndrome Consulting
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Posted - 2007.08.28 02:27:00 -
[34]
-borderline between 0.0 and Empire
-Scaled versions for Desktop backgrounds, like 1600x1200 and widescreens
-----------------------------
Solipsism Syndrome Consulting
Got Audacious Goals or Ideas? - please contact us for career opportunities or contracting |
Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.28 16:41:00 -
[35]
Found some time to get a few more things done. I hope you'll like where it's going.
Updated Map
and one of the more croweded regions in detail:
LQ-0QN
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Redbad
Minmatar
Tempered Steel Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.29 17:37:00 -
[36]
If you can zoom in to that detail I'd say this is a very spanky looking map!
RB
join us today! |
Moloc
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.30 03:10:00 -
[37]
This sort of detail looks messy on a galaxy wide scale, but it looks very nice on a region wide basis.
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2007.08.30 06:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Redbad
If you can zoom in to that detail I'd say this is a very spanky looking map!
RB
Due to the nature of it being a picture, zooming in will not give you better results, however, the picture is just a snapshot output of the sov browser application, you can select whatever region you want to look at there. How this will be distributed in the end? I don't know. It can be run as an applet, but there's quite some data thrown from server to client when you do. Maybe a standalone application for download so you can browse at home, or a webpage which lets you set input values and just sends you the output picture is the way to go.
Neither have I got a server capable of delivering said applet to the masses, nor found anyone wanting to do it, yet.
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