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Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
205
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Posted - 2012.01.15 02:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Does anyone use these? Compared to capacitor boosters you really don't get alot of bang for your buck. A small cap booster is 5 pg and 15 cpu to fit. A small cap battery is 10 pg and 50 cpu to fit! Medium cap batteries? A whopping 75/75. would these get used more if they had a more reasonable fitting requirement? |
Lili Lu
106
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Posted - 2012.01.15 03:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
I use them on tech I taxi/quick-small hauling frigs for my noob alts. And, I use them on cov ops frigs for my mains. They help get the total cap up so that you can cross big systems in one warp. I think I've used them on other ships, just can't remember. Oh yeah, on a curse or pilgrim if you don't want your cargo filled with cap charges.
Regardless, yes, the fitting reqs are sorta overdone for these. But always have been. I remember a suggestions thread on the old forums years ago where it was mentioned and the dev response, "we'll look into it." Of course nothing was done, so must be "working as intended." |
Murtific
Snuff Box
27
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Posted - 2012.01.15 03:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
they also increase the cap recharge time.
And I wish they weren't so odd to fit. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
414
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
[Osprey, POSprey] Capacitor Power Relay II Co-Processor II Power Diagnostic System I
Large Peroxide I Capacitor Power Cell Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
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Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
117
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Large batteries have some niche roles on cruiser sized ships, they do offer notably more cap/second than a recharger. Not going to go into anything specific wrt fittings since tbh I don;t like cap rechargers either, but: A maller equipping a recharger gets a 2,9 cap/second bonus Fitting a large t2 cap battery gives it 5.5 extra cap/second, nearly double the bonus.
Not advocating the use of either (much less on a maller) but you get the idea. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
786
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Murtific wrote:they also increase the cap recharge time. Nope!
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Goose99
671
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Murtific wrote:they also increase the cap recharge time. Nope!
They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
578
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Murtific wrote:they also increase the cap recharge time. Nope! They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill.
No...they don't. Larger capacitor, same time to fill.
-Liang
Ed: To the OP, I used to use them on my nano Ishtar and it worked great. Couldn't squeeze a T2 on though. IMO the fittings really could use an adjustment... but they are still useful on certain ship sizes (cruisers, really) Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
205
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cap batteries come across as a subpar way to deal with nuets or to help with active tanking. Cap boosters, other then cargo space, are a vastly superior alternative. The fitting requirements should reflect that. |
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
117
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Posted - 2012.01.15 04:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Murtific wrote:they also increase the cap recharge time. Nope! They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill. Since not everyone may be aware of the fact that he's trolling:
Cap recharge rate is not an actual variable wrt how the game sees how much cap you have. You have one variable for total cap amount, and one for total cap recharge time. So, for example, doubling your total cap amount would double your cap/second recharge. |
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Tak McMonagle
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.01.15 05:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've used a large one on my PVE ishtar to good effect. There are benefits for cruiser size hulls if you can fit them.
I'm willing to bet the only reason they aren't used very often is because of their fitting requirements. They probably could be dropped a good 20-25%. |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
93
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Posted - 2012.01.15 06:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pre-crucible there were two ways to make your Oneiros cap stable. One, cap booster. Great for short engagements with small gangs. Two, a large cap battery (peroxide) so you can run 3 x LRAR's perma. Of course, this one was lulsed out on Battleclinic, much like the ship scanner bhaalgorn was initially, but then again, everyone hated the Oneiros anyway.
Now that the Oneiros has had its slot layout fiddled to increase its tankiness, I'm not sure whether the large cap battery fit is viable anymore.
You can make a capstable armour cane for PVE with a large cap battery.
Generally, cap batteries work best with CCC's, to create a buffer energy tank (think Drake). I have yet to make a PVP fit anything where this is as successful as a cap booster, though, because the passive regen of your capacitor can't get above the neuting capabilities of one medium neut for a cruiser or BC fitting it, and luls as if you'd waste a midslot on a cap battery on a BS. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
580
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Posted - 2012.01.15 06:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cap batteries work best on kiting fits - that way you never get in range of the heavy neut to start with. Or, you're in for a very short time.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
168
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Posted - 2012.01.15 07:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well. Batteries can be useful on a number of ships like covops (if you don't have the right one), it can be good on a sacrilege if you don't want to or can't rely on cap booster and various other ships. It's not used a whole lot and yeah the fitting is a bit hefty but I don't see a real problem in that. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
34
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Posted - 2012.01.15 07:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
PVE legion loves it's cap battery. You can also just squeeze one onto a recon 5 pilgrim, for places where you can't expect a resupply for a while. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
9
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Posted - 2012.01.15 08:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vachir Khan wrote:Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well....
Cap Rech and Power Relays decrease the recharge time Cap Battery increases the amount of cap regenerated per second |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
124
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Posted - 2012.01.15 08:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Does anyone use these? Compared to capacitor boosters you really don't get alot of bang for your buck. A small cap booster is 5 pg and 15 cpu to fit. A small cap battery is 10 pg and 50 cpu to fit! Medium cap batteries? A whopping 75/75. would these get used more if they had a more reasonable fitting requirement?
I can see them being used more with lower requirements and a "the cap provided can't be neutralized" mechanic in place.
Other than that the large cap battery does have a niche role. Active tanked PvE cruisers without a plate have powergrid left and a large cap battery gives more cap/sec than a cap recharger. |
Vachir Khan
TriSeq Defence Group
168
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Posted - 2012.01.15 09:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Razor Blue wrote:Vachir Khan wrote:Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well.... Cap Rech and Power Relays decrease the recharge time Cap Battery increases the amount of cap regenerated per second
I said recharge, not recharge time :) Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
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Aamrr
225
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Posted - 2012.01.15 10:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:PVE legion loves it's cap battery. You can also just squeeze one onto a recon 5 pilgrim, for places where you can't expect a resupply for a while. You'd be better off using the augmented capacitor reservoir and using an ancillary current router. Trying to get capacitor out of the powergrid subsystem isn't exactly a good idea. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4424
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Posted - 2012.01.15 14:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
The CPU reqs might be a bitGǪ odd, but over all, I don't think it's all that off that cap modules take a lot of fitting space.
Cap is life. Perhaps not in the same direct sense as armour and shield HP, but pretty darn close, and as a result, having a cap buffer mod that requires GÇ£pretty darn closeGÇ¥ to the same fitting space as those HP buffer modules makes some sense.
And they do see a lot of use, but mainly for various cap-stable fits, which don't particularly work in PvP and which are slowly going out of style for PvE as well. It's no different than any other module really GÇö they do what they do, and this makes them more suited for certain situations. Whether or not people choose to get into those situations will vary with tactics and over time. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
59
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Posted - 2012.01.15 15:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Useful for certain Recons (Curse sometimes, Lachesis more so) and for Covert Ops so they can warp >150au in one go. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
142
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Posted - 2012.01.15 15:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't use batteries on any pvp ships but they are pretty handy on some pve ones. My legion has a large cap battery for example. It nearly doubles its capacitor and as said, has no impact on total recharge time. That single mod allows me to forgo the usual triple CCC rigs normally associated with pve ships for cap stability. Sure it eats up a whole lot of PG and CPU, but in this case it's worth it since it frees up so many other slots. The problem with using them in pvp is not the fitting requirements, it's that passive cap recharge setups are not very appealing due to the existence of energy neuts. I'm inclined to say they are balanced well as is. |
Aamrr
225
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Posted - 2012.01.15 16:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The CPU reqs might be a bitGǪ odd, but over all, I don't think it's all that off that cap modules take a lot of fitting space.
Cap is life. Perhaps not in the same direct sense as armour and shield HP, but pretty darn close, and as a result, having a cap buffer mod that requires GÇ£pretty darn closeGÇ¥ to the same fitting space as those HP buffer modules makes some sense.
And they do see a lot of use, but mainly for various cap-stable fits, which don't particularly work in PvP and which are slowly going out of style for PvE as well. It's no different than any other module really GÇö they do what they do, and this makes them more suited for certain situations. Whether or not people choose to get into those situations will vary with tactics and over time.
Have you noticed that almost exclusively, people are using oversized batteries because otherwise a cap recharger does better? Perhaps we don't need to reduce fitting requirements, but rather just make these modules worth using on the ships they're sized for? |
vorneus
Hub2
56
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Posted - 2012.01.15 16:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Interesting conversation.
I, like another has posted, have used a large cap battery on a PvE Ishtar. I've also used them on some other niche setups as others have mentioned like covops for warping across large systems.
I'm going to quote this directly from Takeshi's post because I'd be interested to see some further discussion about it:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:I can see them being used more with lower requirements and a "the cap provided can't be neutralized" mechanic in place.
The "cap provided can't be neutralized" point interests me in particular. We all know how prevalent neuts are, and how cap boosters, while providing some defence obviously, have their limitations.
This kind of mechanic on a cap battery I think has some merit. I'm not saying "implement it now it's a winner!" as I can think of various situations where it'd be OP; however, I think it could be quite interesting, particularly on something like a passive dualprop Jag that only needs a small amount of cap to run its scram/ab if it's in a tight orbit.
I may be way off the mark here, but would be interested to see what others think.
-Ed |
Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
205
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Posted - 2012.01.15 16:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Only a handful of frigates have a mid they could spare for a cap module. A dual prop jag probably has an MSE next to the scram for example. There are many frigates and cruisers that have empty utility high spots though. That could be an interesting rethink of the module.
Edit - I shouldn't post before I wake up. The nos is the obvious high slot cap mod. Making the fitting requirements to be half of a nos though - 5pg and 8 CPU for a small. A lot less CPU for medium... That could put it more in line with what they do. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4430
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Posted - 2012.01.15 17:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Have you noticed that almost exclusively, people are using oversized batteries because otherwise a cap recharger does better? Perhaps we don't need to reduce fitting requirements, but rather just make these modules worth using on the ships they're sized for? The same holds true for shield extenders and plates (unsurprisingly, since it gives a bigger relative boost the smaller the ship is), so that just further reinforces the notion that the cap buffer modules is very much like the shield/armour buffer modules. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Exploited Engineer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.01.15 21:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Does anyone use these? Compared to capacitor boosters you really don't get alot of bang for your buck. A small cap booster is 5 pg and 15 cpu to fit. A small cap battery is 10 pg and 50 cpu to fit! Medium cap batteries? A whopping 75/75. would these get used more if they had a more reasonable fitting requirement?
Also, where are the X-Large versions? (after the fitting requirements get fixed, in their present state, the XL capacitor batteries would only fit on supercaps) |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
6
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Posted - 2012.01.15 23:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
dont forget the myrm. if you really want a stable BC, you can get enough large batteries to make 3 MARs run stable.
of course, you then have to fit small ACs in your highs, because youre out of CPU and Grid... but it makes a workable afk drone BC. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
76
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Posted - 2012.01.16 00:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well tell they 1)fix fitting required 2)increase the amount of cap, I will always If I need a larger cap number go to the memory cell rigs. That makes me feel like the MID slot module is underwhelming, at least as a MID slot with that fitting to cap ratio. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
905
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Posted - 2012.01.16 01:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
I, too, go for the SMC rig over a cap battery or recharger. Higher cap size means each module uses proportionately less of the capacitor, so the 20-30% band lasts longer. SMC also frees up the mid slot for web, paint, scram, etc. SMC are cheaper than CCC, to boot.
I would like to see cap battery fittings reduced a little (10-15%, not CCP Greyscale style) , and have thought so since my first logistics Osprey, back in the days when L4 missions were scary and battleships seemed awesome :) |
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