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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.19 20:57:00 -
[1]
I was thinking about the setups where people go 4-7000m/s and use it to bump people off of a station...
Why not employ a system where the mass of the ships are calculated and damage is dealt to both ships. determine damage based upon, speed, and mass of the ships. (If you slam into a raven in the crow at 5000/ms you go pop.) This can be mitigated by kinetic resists.
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Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2007.08.19 21:09:00 -
[2]
cause a frieghter undocking from a busy station like 4-4 in jita bumps a few ships who bump each other which brings every concord ship in the galaxy
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June Whore
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Posted - 2007.08.19 21:20:00 -
[3]
it would be much fun but sadly too many ppl would exploit it
and yes you have the prob in jita :(
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Thronde
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.08.19 22:06:00 -
[4]
Bumping is a nessacary thing when most people refuse to fight you . When you can bump an exspensive asset out of docking range It usually forces people to fight.
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.19 23:07:00 -
[5]
I understand but it could be flagged as non-aggression. No concord.
As for forcing people to PvP, I'm not saying don't have the ability to bump, but put a price on bumping. You bump you take dmg, plain and simple. Then you also get bumped equally, Newton's third law. "Equal and opposite reaction"
Base it upon mass for the dmg you take.
Crow bumps raven at 4000/ms, it's 1,000,000kg mass goes splat on the raven's 100,000,000kg mass. Hard for crow to move a raven. This enters Newton's first law. Inertia. a principle that the more massive the object, the more that object tends to resist changes in its state of motion. At rest this is a state of equalibrium.
This is more of a problem regarding mass, remember mass and weight are not equal. to simplify mass is related to how much 'stuff' is there and weight is related to the pull of gravity upon that. The mass of an object (measured in kg) will be the same no matter where in the universe that object is located. Mass is never altered by location, the pull of gravity, speed or even the existence of other forces.
kinetic energy is related thusly:
ke = 1/2 * m * V(squared)
This needs to be applied in mechanical force known as work.
total mechanical energy = Potential energy + kinetic energy.
this work force is applied equally to the striking object and the object struck.
To determine the force needed to bump an object (considering the deg constant is 180 or 0 i.e. level and var is applied force in newtons) w=(var N)*(distance moved) * cos(0degrees)= var2 Joule.
1J = 1N * 1M
The displacement of the force is then determined by it's mass.
So if a object with little mass strikes with N force in order to move it 20000m it needs to be able to apply enough force in J to move the object. it simply isn't there since it would have to be travelling 100x it's energy in force.
but back to point, think about a speedboat hitting a battleship, I doubt the battleship would move far, but I'm sure the speedboard would be destroyed.
Keep bumping, but lets add a cost to it. DMG. Kinetic DMG...
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Raging Blizzard
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Posted - 2007.08.19 23:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Raging Blizzard on 19/08/2007 23:27:55
I'd love to see fleets of rifters or condors or what have you just kick in a mwd and kamikaze some battleships. However in certain parts of a system (like the 10-20km surrounding the undock area)CCP could disable that feature. /Signed
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Empire marketslave
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Posted - 2007.08.20 01:13:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Goyda
I understand but it could be flagged as non-aggression. No concord.....
so lets say that 100 rifters going full 1mn MWD at a BS will be enough to kill it and lets just say that will cost 200,000*100 so 20,000,000mil isk total the could go and kill a random BS and not get condorked and get to collect loot which would be more than enough to replace 20 mil over all 100 peeps
i just think we should just implement your mass idea where 1 itty bitty inty cant pin down a 60 bil+ ship by bumping into it
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.08.20 01:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Thronde
Bumping is a nessacary thing when most people refuse to fight you . When you can bump an exspensive asset out of docking range It usually forces people to fight.
?! soo forcing people to fight is the way to make a good basic for a pvp playerbase?!
are you even listening to the **** your saying :P loled
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Thronde
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.08.20 01:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Thronde
Bumping is a nessacary thing when most people refuse to fight you . When you can bump an exspensive asset out of docking range It usually forces people to fight.
?! soo forcing people to fight is the way to make a good basic for a pvp playerbase?!
are you even listening to the **** your saying :P loled
Well m8 take a journey around EVE you will notice that 99% of the time u enter someones system all they do is dock. Tell me how that is any fun. Remember this game is centered around PVP.
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Tarkin8
Caldari
DOWN THE PIPE
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Posted - 2007.08.20 12:25:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tarkin8 on 20/08/2007 12:29:13
I agree with Goyda here, I see Carriers and dreads getting bumped by ships like BS and other smaller things, This really shouldnt happen, And as for forcing into pvp... its not pvp, its ganking someone with them having no chance of winning.
I am sorry, thats not good enough to keep it the way it is 
Unless you want everyone just to admit, we are all scared of Outbreak 
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.20 13:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Thronde
Bumping is a nessacary thing when most people refuse to fight you . When you can bump an exspensive asset out of docking range It usually forces people to fight.
When bumped they have to fight ? No they try to survive.
With my idea you can keep bumping, you just can't be so cavalier about it.
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.21 22:23:00 -
[12]
bump
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Erim Solfara
Amarr
House of Solfara
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Posted - 2007.08.21 23:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Goyda
bump
How ironic...
A new tool in the fight for balance? |
vinnymcg
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.22 00:44:00 -
[14]
Shields should be able to take any ramming damage so giving damage for a bump is stupid. If the shields can withstand the suns heat surely they can take a bump.
With that said a small ship should barley move a large ship i know speed is a major factor but this game doesn't keep to the physics rule book so they could set it up so that if a BS hits a carrier at 7000m/s the carrier will only move at 7m/s and will instantly start slowing down while the BS will bounce off travelling away at and uncontrollable 3500m/s
Remotely Delete Jump clones tread
COMPSOC |
Havok Pierce
Gallente
Black Lance
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.08.22 01:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Havok Pierce on 22/08/2007 01:41:40
I just want ship-to-ship tractor beams that take into account the forces involved. That is, I want to be able to take another ship under tow. Now, a "counter" for this could be easily added as well (shield cycling, w/e).
Unfortunately the math gets mean with more than 2 ships.
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.22 04:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: vinnymcg
Shields should be able to take any ramming damage so giving damage for a bump is stupid. If the shields can withstand the suns heat surely they can take a bump.
Well bumping damage is kinetic, so with this logic, kinetic weapons shouldn't damage shields. Maybe shields can deal with radiant heat. Maybe they should take dmg from the sun's heat. When I first started playing I remember warnings when flying to the sun...
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.22 06:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Erim Solfara
Originally by: Goyda
bump
How ironic...
also how do you propose you deal with station hugging ships? As you don't undock out of dock range (except on certain minmatar stations) some people need to get you off of the station to get the delicious goodies inside
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onetowto
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Posted - 2007.08.22 11:09:00 -
[18]
Its basically like this,
Carrier undocks, then a 6-8km bs comes, Bumps you away from the station 40km+
Think about it, Why do people dont want to fight nano?
   
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Gefex
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Posted - 2007.08.22 12:01:00 -
[19]
Shields are made of blueberry jelly, everybody knows that
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.23 01:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Erim Solfara
Originally by: Goyda
bump
How ironic...
also how do you propose you deal with station hugging ships? As you don't undock out of dock range (except on certain minmatar stations) some people need to get you off of the station to get the delicious goodies inside
Bump him, but be prepared. don't be so cavalier about it. :)
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Major Stallion
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.23 01:54:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Major Stallion on 23/08/2007 01:54:21
Originally by: Goyda
I was thinking about the setups where people go 4-7000m/s and use it to bump people off of a station...
Why not employ a system where the mass of the ships are calculated and damage is dealt to both ships. determine damage based upon, speed, and mass of the ships. (If you slam into a raven in the crow at 5000/ms you go pop.) This can be mitigated by kinetic resists.
i do believe its been explained in a story or something that you arent actually being bumped. Instead your ship is bracing itself for imminent impact and adjusting its course to avoid said impact.
________________________________
High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker"
CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.23 07:03:00 -
[22]
Couldn't a Machariel be turned into a battering ram, and used to pulverize battlecruisers?
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Necronomicon
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.23 12:15:00 -
[23]
If you dont want to bumped off the station, dont try playing the dock/undock game with hostiles. Is it really that hard?
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.08.23 12:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 23/08/2007 12:44:12
Uber speeds are self balancing.
Those setups are based upon fraction implants, ships and fittings. Maybe with exception of vagabonds, "just T2" setups are quite killable. Since there is limited supply of fraction loot, prices go up proportionally to the percieved uberness of speedy ships.
In effect, they are very expensive, and even if hard to kill - they are painfull to loose.
Buuut
Maybe overdrives slightly lowering agility is a good idea.
Also, nanofibers should be stacking nerfed because it makes sense. Overally little better, but stacking nerfed. In fact, by their description, they shoud really be a rig. Its not something You just install in Your ship, its replacing its interia with different materials afterall.
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Dkorg
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Posted - 2007.08.23 18:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Goyda
stuff
Ok so let me see if I understand this. All my physics knowledge is hands on. The crow in your example would have a force of 8,000,000,000,000. 1/2(4000^2)1,000,000
So we have a force of 8,000,000,000,000 being applied to a mass of 100,000,000. It seems perfectly logical that the battleship would go flying.
How do you handle undocking situations?
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Captian Internet
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Posted - 2007.08.23 19:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Necronomicon
If you dont want to bumped off the station, dont try playing the dock/undock game with hostiles. Is it really that hard?
This
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici.
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.08.27 07:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dkorg
Originally by: Goyda
stuff
Ok so let me see if I understand this. All my physics knowledge is hands on. The crow in your example would have a force of 8,000,000,000,000. 1/2(4000^2)1,000,000
So we have a force of 8,000,000,000,000 being applied to a mass of 100,000,000. It seems perfectly logical that the battleship would go flying.
How do you handle undocking situations?
Well considering that this is only the amount of kinetic energy possible, you also have to transform this into work energy, remember inertia says it will resist changes in it state of motion, this energy will have to be compared in the amount of energy required to move 100,000,000kg mass (x)distance. In real world physics, this kinetic energy is lost in things like parts flying off....But conversely, all that kinetic energy is displaced by the mass of the 100,000,000kg ship. and shared equally between the smaller ship and the larger ship. I'm not saying you couldn't move a battleship, but 40-80km, hardly. I'm only saying that dmg should be handed out. nice kinetic dmg. As for the machirel killing BC's, well there is a new aspect of the game.
Again in real world human terms, crash into a battleship with a speed boat. Speed boat destroyed, battleship barely moved and minor damage.
as for undocking, make invulnerable negate the effects. But then again this will also prevent people from clogging up undocks. :)
don't mean to belabor this issue, but I think it needs fixing, just offering up a suggestion.
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Dracon Zethera
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Posted - 2007.08.28 23:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Dracon Zethera on 28/08/2007 23:04:46
Edited by: Dracon Zethera on 28/08/2007 23:04:35
How about making it so that a collision does damage if the speed ratio between the two ships is over 1000m/s or something along those lines.
It makes sense for a ship to move out of the way if another ship is coming towards it, like the situation of leaving a station. But it seems like hardly enough time to move if the ship is advancing at a rate of 2000 m/s. That way it solves the problem of the people in high sec bumping while coming out of a station not to get damaged.
The exploding ship can do kinetic and explosive damage, and make it a pod kill along with it. I have no problem with bumping, but it makes no sense that ships can just hit each other without any side effects. It could possibly be fun to act as a ramming vessle, but with the side-effects of losing implants/ship could make it possibly impractical for pilots to do.
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