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Ethan Hunte
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Posted - 2007.08.21 00:45:00 -
[1]
latest dev blog, the devs admit, the pilgrim now sucks, so they have given it 100 more powergrid. woopdy doo..
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8 D
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Posted - 2007.08.21 00:49:00 -
[2]
pilgrims are cool imo
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Cougem
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2007.08.21 01:01:00 -
[3]
Not only have they boosted PG, but neutraliser fitting requirements have been slackened, helping further.
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Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.21 01:47:00 -
[4]
Though this will help out a bit so you can fit cap boosters there are still a few issues.
1.Thats now one less mid slot your using instead of a tracking disruptor or web.
2. Considering that you will probably need to fit 3 neuts you will still run into cap problems, it will be great if you were able to increase cap recharge rate than waste an important low slot for cpr's. Still havnt found a reasonable reason why nos will still be worth it. Whats the point, it wont take long till they have less cap than you.
3. Very small cargo space to use cap boosters.
Having a look at my current set up. I only need an extra 35 pg to fit a cap booster on my ship. What am I going to do with the other 65pg plus how much less it will cost to fit neuts over TII nos. I really have no idea where and how am I going to use all that pg. In other ships you have options, where you can upgrade your ions to neutrons if you are in this situtation. Pilgrims dont have the option only upgrade in armor plates. You still wont beable to fit armor rep, 800mm plate, cap booster and mwd all at the same time so in all honesty, this change will just make the pilgrim flyable but still not good. Its still the worst recon in fleet, still the worst recon in large gangs and with nos change will not be a great solo ship.
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.21 04:36:00 -
[5]
Using a paperthin recon in web range is a recipe for death. It needs a range bonus and the amount bonus considering that it only has 3 highs for nos/neuts.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.21 04:45:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ethan Hunte
latest dev blog, the devs admit, the pilgrim now sucks, so they have given it 100 more powergrid. woopdy doo..
So you think that it would be better off without the extra 100 grid and neut grid buffs?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.21 04:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Ethan Hunte
latest dev blog, the devs admit, the pilgrim now sucks, so they have given it 100 more powergrid. woopdy doo..
So you think that it would be better off without the extra 100 grid and neut grid buffs?
lol what an idiot... extra pg and neut slackens are all good.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.21 05:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ogdru Jahad
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Ethan Hunte
latest dev blog, the devs admit, the pilgrim now sucks, so they have given it 100 more powergrid. woopdy doo..
So you think that it would be better off without the extra 100 grid and neut grid buffs?
lol what an idiot... extra pg and neut slackens are all good.
Who are you and when did you buy Ogdru's account? LOL.
You're agreeing with me waay too much. 
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Janus Duo
Gallente
Psilocybin and Wine
Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.08.21 06:00:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Nosferatu Adjustments
The power needed by Energy Neutralizers has been lowered to be in line with Nosferatus in order to not nerf ships that specialize in draining (rather than leeching) energy.
The Blood Raider ships (Bhaalgorn, Ashimmu and Cruor) have had their bonuses to Nosferatus extended to Energy Neutralizers similar to the Amarr recons. The Curse still performs quite well in small gangs, but the Pilgrim does not, so power output has been increased:
* Pilgrim: 950mw (+100mw)
Sounds good. In the past if you wanted to run 2x Neut 1x Nos setups on the pilgrim (Which I have) you had barely any grid left for a MAR II and a 800mm plate. I can now see AB/Cap Booster/Scram/Web/Tracking Disruptor setups working with 3x Med Neut setups although you'll need to ditch the 800mm plate possible.
And the news that the cap cost of neuts will be lowered to make them viable cap-busting mods without making em useless is awesome. You just won't get getting the energy they neutralize.
With those changes the Pilgrim may indeed be useful again.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.21 08:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Ogdru Jahad
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Ethan Hunte
latest dev blog, the devs admit, the pilgrim now sucks, so they have given it 100 more powergrid. woopdy doo..
So you think that it would be better off without the extra 100 grid and neut grid buffs?
lol what an idiot... extra pg and neut slackens are all good.
Who are you and when did you buy Ogdru's account? LOL.
You're agreeing with me waay too much.
lollers...
just ANY form of boost for amarr is good. as i am amarr specced. and I need ALL the help I can get for setups...
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.08.21 08:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: 8 D
pilgrims are cool imo
Yeah they are the only ships capable of using a cov ops cloak and have a 1400 m3 cargo hold.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 08:46:00 -
[12]
Won't save that recon.
The main problem of the pilgrim is that it needs to be within 12k. Which means it cannot use EW efficiently to neutralize damage. Which means it has to tank.
It has the fittings for that, but not the cap. This came from its nosses. Now it will come from an injector. Great. And it now also needs cap to kill its targets cap. It essentially has to constantly use cap chargers to work and has a rather small cargobay.
And the there is its number of medium slots.
It needs a MWD (otherwise any halfway competent gatecamp will uncloak and kill him) a scrambler and a web (otherwise a target with a web of its own and an AB or MWD will simply get outside the pilgrims nos/neut range). And a cap injector. Leaving 1 med slot left for EW. Yay.
So, it will have huge capproblems to kill the cap of a battleship. BCs will very likely force it to flee since they will still deal plenty of dps vs it after 1 TD and have far more hitpoints...which leaves cruisers.
Mhh.. should I take a pilgrim there which is slow and has a low range and will take damage or a rapier which can web the target from 20k, has enough free meds to damp it below that range and avoid damage alltogether and which has enough dps to break cruiser tanks? Let me think..
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IamBen
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:38:00 -
[13]
Its gonna need more storage space
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Jahria Jaeger
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:40:00 -
[14]
sign - no nos/neut range bonus means useless ship - Im sorry maybe the best way to fly it is scouting only
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Riho
Magnificent Beavers
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:56:00 -
[15]
pilgrim has a bigger issue whit CPU than PG last time i checked. needed recon 5 to fit something good on it :P
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Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it
Great being Gallente... aint it ?
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YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog
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sakana
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:03:00 -
[16]
OK, so now we can fit cap boosters. With your booster running constantly, your still gonna have trouble running your med rep, and on such a flimsy ship you really need to run that rep almost constantly. Even if your managing to keep on top of the cap issues, how long will you 8 cap 800 charges last? 1 small fight...
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.21 12:11:00 -
[17]
1/ Use powergrid to fit plates and neuts
2/ Find an enemy that need cap to fire
3/ Mutually destroy the enemy cap and yours, while your drones kill his drones.
4/ Let your drones wear it down, while you take next to no damage.
5/ Profit
At least that's the only way I could find a use for the ship. For any other use, might as well take a Curse...
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What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shadowsword
1/ Use powergrid to fit plates and neuts
2/ Find an enemy that need cap to fire
3/ Mutually destroy the enemy cap and yours, while your drones kill his drones.
4/ Watch him as he warps out since you do not have cap for your scram
Fixed 
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Great Artista
Caldari
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Shadowsword
1/ Use powergrid to fit plates and neuts
2/ Find an enemy that need cap to fire
3/ Mutually destroy the enemy cap and yours, while your drones kill his drones.
4/ Watch him as he warps out since you do not have cap for your scram
Fixed
You people dont get it do you? They added the powergrid so you can fit cap booster.
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Space perverts and forum warriors united.
[PERVS]
My opinions rather rarely represent my corp, not to mention my alliance hihihi... |
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.21 13:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Great Artista
You people dont get it do you? They added the powergrid so you can fit cap booster.
I am afraid the person who does not get it is you. Rereading what I quoted might be a good idea, mainly point 1/
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Kali Ananda
Minmatar
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.08.21 16:19:00 -
[21]
One way to fix all of this, is to give the Pilgrim the Curses NOS range bonus. Then we could fight at range, which would limit somewhat, our exposure to hostile fire.
Kali Ananda
POD-U
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Storm Strike
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:22:00 -
[22]
No it doesnt need the curses range bonus, It is meant to be a different ship and i really dont want to see cloaking nanogrims.
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Storm Strike
No it doesnt need the curses range bonus, It is meant to be a different ship and i really dont want to see cloaking nanogrims.
Why not? All the other recons can stay out of range and use nanos. Well the Caldari ones can't very well, but they're probably the most valuable in gangs.
I just can't see flying a Pilgrim when I can use an Arazu or Curse.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.21 19:38:00 -
[24]
In actual use, we will see a heavy swing towards Dual Repper setups, as they will ensure that the Pilgrims cap stays below his opponents (thus making his NOS fully useful). Keep in mind, even now you don't use a Pilgrims NOS for the purpose of eliminating your opponents cap when fighting cruiser or bigger... you use the NOS to sustain your own defenses.
That being said, it would not hurt my feelings to see the Pilgrim get some kind of an advantage over its current state. It has long been hampered by low speed and the necessity of operating below 10K range. A speed boost, or a very high cap recharge rate to make Neuts more practical would be a good place to begin.
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Rob Erachar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.21 19:40:00 -
[25]
Here are three changes in order of importance that I believe would make a pilgrim useful:
1. Change the 20% nos/neut bonus to: 10% bonus to reduction in cap use for neutralizers, 10% increase in amount neutralized, and 10% increase in neutralizer range. The pilgrim can now stay out of web range and its tank will be easier to operate since neutralizers will use less cap.
2. Add an extra mid slot. This would help make up for the mid slot lost due to a cap booster and give the pilgrim the same amount of slots as a curse.
3. Increase the cargo capacity to permit additional cap booster charges. A reasonable increase would be nice but nothing over the top.
Even after the changes a curse will still have 2 additional high slots to play with and twice the range. The pilgrim will have an additional low slot to tank with and a cloak bonus so it can sneak around.
Originally by: AceonfireAlso, do not expect to make any money from killing GOONS. When I tried to tractor beam one of their wrecks, a message box popped up and asked me if I was serious. |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.21 19:54:00 -
[26]
Hmmm, I believe I would support those changes...
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.21 21:13:00 -
[27]
I dont see the option for... ninja npcing in hostile space...
/emote RADFC!
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Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.23 11:23:00 -
[28]
This thread deserves a bump. Some great ideas. I may be the only few but I am fully fine with the pilgrim range because it did have a good tank till they are dry in cap. However with the nos change coming up, your losing an important mid slot for cap boosters and the pilgrim can only use so much.
I believe that Pilgrims should either get a much higher cap recharge rate or a bonus to neuts cap usage. Atm the pilgrim is still broken, all the power grid increase is giving is the ability to fit a cap booster with flexability. Your still relying on your boosters, still losing a tracking disruptor or web which are both so needed when your that close.
The pilgrim is fine as it is, till the nos change is into effect. If the nos change goes through which it will, the pilgrim and curse needs a revist. Though I have said this many times however ill say it again, atm the pilgrim is the worst fleet recon, worst large gang recon, worst small gang recon and the one thing that was going for it was being one of the best solo recons and soon it will lose that.
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king jks
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.23 11:51:00 -
[29]
The problem was never PG, its always been CPU. But on recons thats expected.
...but will it blend? |
Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.23 14:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: king jks
The problem was never PG, its always been CPU. But on recons thats expected.
Well yeah sorta. In my mids and lows I have everything TII except for web which I cant fit because of CPU. But it wasnt a huge issue anyway. 100pg was always for the ability for the pilgrim to fit a med booster without losing to much in flexibility.
CCP thinks that was the only issue with the pilgrim after nos nerf. What I am saying along with others that there are many other issues because of the nos nerf that has destroyed this fine ship. If 100pg plus was the answer, then CCP are mistaken. This will resolve one thing while opening up another flaw.
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