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Please limit GTC => ISK conversion

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Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:41:00 - [1] More and more people are buying ISK through GTCs (and also other means ...) and it ruins the game for people who do not want to compete ingame with RL money. By limiting the number of GTCs purchased and sold per account and time frame (e.g. one 30 day GTC per month and account), they would improve EVE in 2 ways: * there would be less imbalance and grievance caused by the massive RL => ISK transfers * GTCs would become more expensive ISK-wise, so the RL => ISK conversion through GTC would compete better with the ISK purchasing through shady sites and this would fight both the ISK farming and the illegal ISK purchases that are costing CCP money and resources "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Nihn Lemai	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:47:00 - [2] Wont happen. Sorry.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:49:00 - [3] I do think it is the one major legit thing screwing up the economy. Encoraging farming and what not. And acting like $15 or however much is being paid in Pounds and Euros is some insurmountable barrier. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
CyberChick The Ghost Riders	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:53:00 - [4] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I do think it is the one major legit thing screwing up the economy. Encoraging farming and what not. And acting like $15 or however much is being paid in Pounds and Euros is some insurmountable barrier. How is it screwing up the economy? After all the money is just being transferred from one character to another, also if gtc's didn't exist farming would still exist but instead of transferring the isk from one to another it would be via ebay.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:55:00 - [5] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/08/2007 11:57:24 Originally by: CyberChick Originally by: An Anarchyyt I do think it is the one major legit thing screwing up the economy. Encoraging farming and what not. And acting like $15 or however much is being paid in Pounds and Euros is some insurmountable barrier. How is it screwing up the economy? After all the money is just being transferred from one character to another, also if gtc's didn't exist farming would still exist but instead of transferring the isk from one to another it would be via ebay. Because it is actively encouraging farming (If you do........._____, then you can play for free). And as you can clearly see, it has not stopped ISK selling at all. And of course, selling the GTCs for ISK is still taking real money and transferring it into ISK, which, even though sanctioned by CCP is the same exact thing that happens when ISK is bought for money. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pjotr Gandini	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:56:00 - [6] This is already limited by the number of subscribers in the game. This is because every account only needs 1 GTC a month. It's not like you can buy a million GTC's with real money and sell them because so many GTC's are not needed.
Turix Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.25 11:58:00 - [7] People, including me, do it because we can and untill CCP bans it we will continue. I am morally opposed to buying ISK or currency in any game for that matter. But while it is possible without breaching the EULA its too tempting. When CCP bans it, i will be glad. \| Image Hosting \| My Movies \|
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Turix People, including me, do it because we can and untill CCP bans it we will continue. I am morally opposed to buying ISK or currency in any game for that matter. But while it is possible without breaching the EULA its too tempting. When CCP bans it, i will be glad. So then you do it because you can, even though you're morally opposed to it? So then you must be chock full of self-loathing, for being unable to break your addiction of doing something you're against, "just because." Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Destiny Calling Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Destiny Calling on 25/08/2007 12:04:01 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Turix People, including me, do it because we can and untill CCP bans it we will continue. I am morally opposed to buying ISK or currency in any game for that matter. But while it is possible without breaching the EULA its too tempting. When CCP bans it, i will be glad. So then you do it because you can, even though you're morally opposed to it? So then you must be chock full of self-loathing, for being unable to break your addiction of doing something you're against, "just because." Yes he hates himself. edit: far too early to be witty or spell.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Pjotr Gandini This is already limited by the number of subscribers in the game. This is because every account only needs 1 GTC a month. It's not like you can buy a million GTC's with real money and sell them because so many GTC's are not needed. This limit is obviously not enough. There is an oversupply of GTCs on the market and thus the ISK price is low, which means that for RL => ISK conversion, GTCs can not compete. The ISK price of GTCs must go up, either by reducing the number of GTCs on the market or by price fixing by CCP. "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana

White soul Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:07:00 - [11] Edited by: White soul on 25/08/2007 12:09:03 Cant see it happen in all honesty Have to admit CCP were clever in what they thought up. 1) Will always be a black market aslong as there is a demand. If noone wanted to buy isk there would be no black market. And no need for the serice, thus we players created the sitution as it stands atm 2) By offering an offical service buying gtc and trading it for isk. Its not as wide spread and they can monitor it. 3) GTC -> isk is alot worse value, than what current blackmarket will sell u isk for. Blackmarket will always offer better value, otherwise it wouldnt be there. 4) Buy people buying GTC to trade for isk. Real money goes back to CPP & allows some players to continue play if they had some rl money issues. 5) Also most people that have isk to pay for GTC, are already wealthy enough and helps redist isk in the game. 6) Buy offering this service they removing demand for blackmarket isk & thus helping prevent isk farmers from devasting the ore market as much Some Counter Points Below To Your Idea 1) If u reduce the limited GTC u are in effect reducing money that CCP makes. And increase demand for a black market. 2) By reducing amount of GTC, and since players decide on how much isk they will to spend on a GTC. U will in effect increase isk value of GTC. i.e (numbers made up) 300 mil for 30 GTC Now u just made it more profitable to sell limited GTC for those not willing to risk buying on black market. Because GTC prices not changed, cant really change them to high or u have to change sub fees aswell. Remember blackmarkets will always offer better value for money. 3) Atm unless someone has a serious problem i.e willing to spend 100 Euro on a single game. It really isnt a problem and older characters could make the isk ingame easy enough, without wasting RL money on a game. (in regard buying GTC's) 4) Limited amount of GTC's will only mean if people unwilling to wait for to get hands on GTC they may just buy of blackmarket instead. Wouldnt solve the issue of reducing demand for black market Sidenote:- Yes i have purchased a gtc to trade for isk once before. Was during a war & lost my hurricane. Wanted to get back into fight asap and not be reduced to a t1 frig, when most of my skills were aimed for a cruiser / bc. When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite.
Suboran Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:09:00 - [12] it would just drive people to buying isk from gold farmer websites.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Suboran it would just drive people to buying isk from gold farmer websites. Why? You seem to be confused, it will do exactly the opposite. If people get more ISK for a GTC, more people will choose to buy their ISK that way. "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Turix Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:12:00 - [14] Diesired effect 4tw \| Image Hosting \| My Movies \|
Anson Halleck Lost Eden	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Suboran it would just drive people to buying isk from gold farmer websites. Why? You seem to be confused, it will do exactly the opposite. If people get more ISK for a GTC, more people will choose to buy their ISK that way. But if you apply limits on number of GTCs sold, then you force them to buy ISK from shady sites. I.e.: guy wants a faction fitted Navy Mega, he needs 2 Billion. With your limit he can sell one 30 Day which will go for, lets say 500M. He still needs 1.5 Billion -> farmers got a sale.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:15:00 - [16] Originally by: White soul Some Counter Points Below To Your Idea 1) If u reduce the limited GTC u are in effect reducing money that CCP makes. And increase demand for a black market. Wrong, there will always be enough GTCs (there is an oversupply now) and more people will by ISK through GTCs since it is legal and no longer so much worse than ISK from ebay (more GTCs will enter the market to replace the ISK purchases no longer done on ebay etc.). Quote: 2) By reducing amount of GTC, and since players decide on how much isk they will to spend on a GTC. U will in effect increase isk value of GTC. i.e (numbers made up) 300 mil for 30 GTC Now u just made it more profitable to sell limited GTC for those not willing to risk buying on black market. Because GTC prices not changed, cant really change them to high or u have to change sub fees aswell. Remember blackmarkets will always offer better value for money. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Quote: 3) Atm unless someone has a serious problem i.e willing to spend 100 Euro on a single game. It really isnt a problem and older characters could make the isk ingame easy enough, without wasting RL money on a game. (in regard buying GTC's) The facts prove you wrong, a minority of people buy a lot of ISK, this is a problem both for the game balance and for CCP (since they buy mostly from ebay). Quote: 4) Limited amount of GTC's will only mean if people unwilling to wait for to get hands on GTC they may just buy of blackmarket instead. Wouldnt solve the issue of reducing demand for black market You are confused. People who want GTCs cannot buy them on the black market, people who want to buy ISK will buy GTCs from CCP (no need to wait). You mixed those 2 up. "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Anson Halleck But if you apply limits on number of GTCs sold, then you force them to buy ISK from shady sites. I.e.: guy wants a faction fitted Navy Mega, he needs 2 Billion. With your limit he can sell one 30 Day which will go for, lets say 500M. He still needs 1.5 Billion -> farmers got a sale. This will be true for those who buy a lot of ISK (more than their account would allow for with a limit), but those people buy it 100% off ebay now anyway... Check out the forums for those very few who sell lots of GTCs, it's a small minority who actually bother to go the GTC way to get lots of ISK (at 1/4 the conversion rate too). "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:18:00 - [18] There is a very small minority of people that use ISK from GTCs to gain the sort of advantage that all you whiners keep whining about... I get ISK from GTCs to PvP with because I don't like the PvE side of this game. Before I bought GTCs for the first time, I used to fly fully faction fitted ships! My Zealot in particular cost me nearly a billion ISK... I found a pretty good Absolution setup fully t2 without using GTC ISK to pay for it, then lost all interest in the PvE side of the game... Not wanting to stop playing (as I like the community and the PvP side of the game so much), I decided to get ISK from GTCs instead. Now I still fly that same t2 fitted Absolution, but due to paying with real-life money, I no longer fly faction-fitted ships, and my Zealot setup is now all t2... Using real-life money to pay for my ships actually makes this game more enjoyable for me, as I'm putting my hard-earned cash on the line every time I undock! I know dozens of players in this game from many different corps and alliances that do exactly the same as me, and I only know of one person who buys insane amounts of GTCs to trade for ISK to fly fully faction Vindicators and whatnot... Thing is, if you take away the GTC to ISK mechanism in game, these dozens of people I know would probably leave after a few months when their ISK reserves run dry... I know I would! I hate the PvE side to this game, I can't think of anything more boring that firing missiles and red dots on the screen! I redecorated the other week when I did a mission, and I actually zoned out watching the paint dry while my drake was tanking the complex and killing a BS rat... As with every annoying minority out there, you can't get rid of them without getting rid of a huge majority as well. At the end of the day it's all about money for CCP, which GTC to ISK generates. Take that away and you take away the income from GTCs, you take away dozens if not hundreds of subscriptions from people that don't like to PvE, and you take away hundreds more subscriptions of the people who no longer want to play because their friends left! Thousands of dollars each month lies on the decision to take this element of the game away, so don't be suprised if it stays. Latest Video, Click Here!
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:22:00 - [19] Originally by: White soul Sidenote:- Yes i have purchased a gtc to trade for isk once before. Was during a war & lost my hurricane. Wanted to get back into fight asap and not be reduced to a t1 frig, when most of my skills were aimed for a cruiser / bc. That alone makes a mockery of the game Sorry, iv'e nothing against you personaly...... But thats one of a few reasons why i just won't play the 'real game' ccp encourage me and others to play. It's just sad, iv'e no intention of going up against people that just replace in game items with a stroke of their credit cards. It's a joke ______
Anson Halleck Lost Eden	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Lazuran This will be true for those who buy a lot of ISK (more than their account would allow for with a limit), but those people buy it 100% off ebay now anyway... Check out the forums for those very few who sell lots of GTCs, it's a small minority who actually bother to go the GTC way to get lots of ISK (at 1/4 the conversion rate too). Well maybe, I don't have any statistic. But last guy I bought GTCs from got over over 2 Billion from one batch of GTCs... only God knows how many times a month he does it. And when you look at GTC sales forum, it is not rare to see 5-10 or eve more GTCs being sold within one thread. In my opinion, it is not possible to stop ISK buying. People will always want to "cheat" and if RL cash can do it, they will use it. It is like that in all online games. GTC is good way to partially exclude shade sites from the process and any limitation of GTC trade will only result in more $$$ coming to professional farmers which means more macros all accross Eve.

White soul Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:28:00 - [21] Edited by: White soul on 25/08/2007 12:33:11 Originally by: Galk Originally by: White soul Sidenote:- Yes i have purchased a gtc to trade for isk once before. Was during a war & lost my hurricane. Wanted to get back into fight asap and not be reduced to a t1 frig, when most of my skills were aimed for a cruiser / bc. That alone makes a mockery of the game Sorry, iv'e nothing against you personaly...... But thats one of a few reasons why i just won't play the 'real game' ccp encourage me and others to play. It's just sad, iv'e no intention of going up against people that just replace in game items with a stroke of their credit cards. It's a joke Was only 2 months back ingame with new main char. Was only just started todo lvl 2 missions. So could barely afford a decent cruiser ship. And got declared war buy some empire griefers on a young corp Against people who sit there all day outside station cloaked in tech2 frigs / command ships, now i can either run away & leave corp. Not play and hope war will be over in 1-2 week's (prob lose interest in the game) and wait for war to be over. (Was 3 weeks of war in the end). Or i can get back into fight simple as, and play. Now doing lvl3 missions and have isk so i afford to fly bc's in pvp now. When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.25 12:35:00 - [22] So what I keep hearing is... I don't want to do ______, so instead I sell GTC so I can do ______. Which allows me to completely avoid the in game economics. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:12:00 - [23] CCP should just let players buy ISK streight with their credit cards - because that would be more honest. I have heard that selling GTCs encourage gameplay and that is why it is sanctioned - but buying several hundred dollars of ISK does the same thing, and CCP can just make a streight profit off it instead of pushing their product. This whole GTC thing has caused a huge bump in prices - which makes it even more difficult to keep up using in-game methods without putting a whole lot of time into it. All in all, I understand why people do it, but I think it should either be a streight conversion or baned entierly, as it is, there is too much 'gray' in this whole thing.
Lucky 8 Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:16:00 - [24] You'll always get those that think substituting "needless" hours of farming for ISK with purchasing it from ebay to acheive their goals is ok. Alienate and 'name and shame' those that buy ISK and we will reverse this trend. The responsibility lies with all of us, not just with CCP. -- Originally by: Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Black Lion Legion	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:38:00 - [25] Okay seriously why do you care? Yes I buy GTCs. So what. #1 - Its legal #2 - The isk I get just buys ship and equipment from you I work well over 60-70 hours a week and therefore can not spend the time needed to sit there and mine for 10 hours a day to get money to get the toys I want. CCP has already made the one MMO that I can play with limited time with the way skills are done. Buying a GTC every 6 months or so allows me to have isk to try out new ships and builds. Heck half the isk I hand out to noobs to get started. Don't like? Tough. I have my reasons for doing it and don't need to justify it to anyone as long as CCP has offered a method for people with limited time to play their game.
Snake Jankins Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.25 13:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Lazuran * GTCs would become more expensive ISK-wise, so the RL => ISK conversion through GTC would compete better with the ISK purchasing through shady sites and this would fight both the ISK farming and the illegal ISK purchases that are costing CCP money and resources There is a flaw in your logic I think. If you limit gtc<->isk conversion, there will be more demand on the black market. If some people can't get the big amounts of isk via gtcs anymore, they might try to buy them from farmers for $$. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:09:00 - [27] Using isk that you bought with IRL-money, sanctioned or not, to gain an advantage in the game is bull****. Capital is a very important element when waging war. The ability to fund ones war, against "honest players", by using IRL cash is appalling. CCP, would you give me a constellation in BoB-space if i pay you guys 1000$? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -TheDagda ([email protected])
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:36:00 - [28] Okay, you bunch of whiners are annoying me now... Let's take two examples: a) I buy a GTC and sell it for ISK, with that ISK, I then buy an Absolution, fit it out with t2 gear, meet you on a gate somewhere and kill your ship. b) I spend 10 hours ratting, with that ISK, I then buy an Absolution, fit it out with t2 gear, meet you on a gate somewhere and kill your ship. How are either of these examples any different from each other? In both scenarios I have the same ship with which I use to destroy your ship... Now let's take two more examples so you whiners see this from a different perspective. a) You run level 4 missions all day every day and have a general income of 100mil a day. b) In order to do (a) for one day, you first have to spend ten days in 0.0 PvPing and losing ships. If you don't like (b), then tough! You have to quit! But wait... Not the case! Those people that run level 4 missions all day every day have no risk associated with it apart from the odd CTD, which will get reimbursed. You can completely avoid part (b) if you want! So why are you trying to get CCP to FORCE us to partake in part (a) of this equation if you're not forced in to partaking in part (b)? If you were forced in to this, would you stay with the game? I'm sorry, but you're all a bunch of short-sighted whining idiots that have no idea of the economy of this game and cannot see past your own little perspective of the game! Fact is that throughout the patches, CCP have always given mission-runners more attention than PvPers as they make up the largest portion of income for them (in llamans terms, most subscribers are mission runners)... However it is only the PvPers that ever buy GTCs, and if CCP took this away, it would eventually lead to a loss of about 20% of gamers through one means or another... You have to realise that on the whole people don't buy GTCs to gain a massive advantage over other players, just to play the game how they want... CCP will undoubtedly take this as a complement, as it means these people are willing to pay more money in order to play the game than other people. Go back to running missions! Latest Video, Click Here!
Snake Jankins Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:39:00 - [29] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 25/08/2007 14:41:04 Originally by: Cpt Fina Using isk that you bought with IRL-money, sanctioned or not, to gain an advantage in the game is bull****. Capital is a very important element when waging war. The ability to fund ones war, against "honest players", by using IRL cash is appalling. I agree to this, especially where it has an impact on warfare. I don't care much, if the occasional player in empire sells a gtc to buy himself another ship to get blown up again. But well, buying gtcs for isk allows me to reduce my monthly costs for EVE a bit from time to time. ( Training 4 accounts is a bit expensive. Ok, I need and play usually only two, anyway, I want to see them all advance ^^ ) ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.25 14:50:00 - [30] as long no one makes money off of CCP I'm fine with it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...



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